BalanceIT - who's used it?

[stephanie42]

piglet and i saw a holistic vet who charged $300 and designed a diet for piglet based on her needs and chinese medicine.  the diet is home cooked - lamb, sweet potato, canola oil (?), omega 3, and balanceIT feline-k, which is for kitties with kidney issues.

let's not discuss that i paid $300 for someone who has a subscription to this damn website who plugged in the info i could have plugged in.  because i'm not going to deal with that right now.  i'm not.  i'm not.  I'M REALLY PISSED OFF ABOUT THAT.

so i guess i have a couple of questions.  who's used it?  how is it?  and does anyone use it with just any meats?  if i'm going to cook for piglet, i'm going to cook for samantha and jake too.  i think once i lay out the (tons of) money for the supplements, it will work out to be less than what i've been spending.  since i consulted a veterinary nutritionist, i'm trying to put aside my hatred of the sweet potato being included (it's about a 60/40 split, lamb/sweet potato).  i'm thinking of buying the original formula to use for the other two cats who have no major health problems.

 

[vball91]

I believe goholistic and abbyntim have used Balance IT. Here's an important thread about it.
http://www.thecatsite.com/t/263825/clarification-on-balance-it-supplement-for-home-cooked

Wow, 40% sweet potato? Is there a specific reason for that?

 

[goholistic]

A non-specialized recipe for a healthy cat with an ideal weight is available for free on the Balance It public website, but once you specify that your kitty has a problem from the list of options, such as diabetes or CRF, then Balance It requires veterinarian approval. So, yes, you could have plugged in the information yourself, but you still would have needed your vet's approval before you can get the specialized renal recipe. They probably do this to ensure that the nutrient analysis does not negatively affect the cat's particular problem. Chances are the vet would want to schedule a consult before they would approve the recipe. 

Also, Balance It partners with vets to offer them advanced software called Autobalancer, where they are able to generate recipes. I'm assuming this is different, and possibly more advanced, since they seem to distinguish this separately from their free online recipe generator (see: https://secure.balanceit.com/info/acvnecvcn.php).

Besides, you probably paid more for the consult and the Chinese medicine than you did for the diet. Holistic consults alone can be pretty costly. Don't beat yourself up.

Thanks for posting that link, @vball91.

I use the Balance It Carnivore Blend. It is meant to be used with just meat (no grains, starches or veggies added). I offer this to Sebastian alongside premium canned. So far, he has eaten all the meats I've let him try with Balance It added, so I guess he doesn't mind the taste. If you want to use just meat, you could try the Carnivore Blend for your other two cats. You can get free recipes for this on the website, as long as Samantha and Jake are healthy and have no issues.

 

[stephanie42]

feeling better, thanks y'all.  and now i understand why they require a vet code for the specialized diets.  

i'm guessing the sweet potato is because her kidneys are only functioning at 20-25% as per the new holistic vet based on old renal bloodwork.  although the bloodwork looked a bit better at surgery, that was after 20 hours on IV fluids.  and i'm not sure how to do the lamb thing.  i mean, i barely even eat meat.  i don't even know if they sell lamb in the store... (i'm assuming they do.)  i'm also guessing that it will be EXPENSIVE so i'm going to respond and ask if i can sub or mix in chicken sometimes to cut the cost.

samantha & jake have no serious health issues.  samantha seems to have no sense of smell and jake has a leg that may be a problem in the future (when we rescued him, his thigh bone down by the knee and the patella had been shattered.  his one leg is about 1/3" shorter than the other) but neither have any issues that would require different food.  

i think i'm going to order the feline-k for piglet, and then the carnivore for my other two.  @GoHolistic, is there a meat your sebastian prefers?  going to read that thread, thanks

 

[vball91]

You can get lamb in grocery stores. It is one of the more expensive meats. Since you are going to cook it, you can use ground lamb which is cheaper than the other cuts.

I would ask about the sweet potato. I know with kidney kitties you want high quality, easily digestible protein. Does sweet potato count or is it there to bring down the protein and/or phosphorous? Low protein is used as a last resort for advanced kidney disease, but providing high quality, low phosphorous food seems to be more important in the earlier stages.

 

[stephanie42]

You can get lamb in grocery stores. It is one of the more expensive meats. Since you are going to cook it, you can use ground lamb which is cheaper than the other cuts.

I would ask about the sweet potato. I know with kidney kitties you want high quality, easily digestible protein. Does sweet potato count or is it there to bring down the protein and/or phosphorous? Low protein is used as a last resort for advanced kidney disease, but providing high quality, low phosphorous food seems to be more important in the earlier stages.

IRIS staging puts her solidly in stage 3, and that's after IV fluids.  piglet's not considered early stage

 

[vball91]

IRIS staging puts her solidly in stage 3, and that's after IV fluids.  piglet's not considered early stage

Ah, gotcha. Sorry to hear that.

 

[goholistic]

The Feline-K is only available through veterinarians. If purchasing this through the Balance It website, you'll need your Vet Code.

I would say Sebastian likes beef and pork the best so far.

@stephgas, have your cats always ate home-cooked? Or are you transitioning them from canned? Or are you offering both?

 

[goholistic]

Ah, gotcha. Sorry to hear that.

  I'm sorry, too. 

 

[stephanie42]

we're transitioning.  i had been feeding nature's variety instinct kibble once a day, rehydrated freeze dried raw twice a day.  almost always protein sources with fur or feathers (they actually haven't liked any beef or venison i've tried on them, but they do like lamb).  when piglet was diagnosed with the kidney failure, we decided to take a step back and feed only commercial until we figured everything out and had her stabilized after dental surgery.  

we've been feeding wellness complete health indoor kibble for their bedtime snack and quality canned twice a day (wellness, nature's variety instinct, merrick).  piglet's kidney values improved after stopping what i called the modified raw diet.  i was devastated because i'd done so much research to try and feed them the best i could after my 16-year-old old man cat was put down two years ago after 5 years in early-stage 2 kidney failure.

two western vets have told me that raw diets are not for all cats - my other two were doing great.  i was considering feeding homemade raw, but this stuff is cooked.  i guess that's okay.  at least i have control over what i'm feeding them this way. 

 

[goholistic]

Oh, okay...I see.

 

[abbyntim]

So sorry to hear about your kitty. I've dealt with too many cats with kidney disease; it's very hard.

I agree with everything @GoHolistic mentioned above, and my understanding of the different recipes is the same. In fact, the first time I tried to get a free recipe, I indicated that Tim has "adverse reactions to food" and was not able to get a recipe. So I went with "healthy pet" and got several recipes using the Carnivore Blend.

I made just one batch of ground turkey with only half the required amount of Balance It. This is for a couple of reasons. First, I meant this to be a small supplement and thus was not terribly concerned if it was 100% nutritionally complete. Second, I wanted to make sure the cats ate it and decided to start slow and gradually build up. The first few days I fed it, both cats gobbled it up. However, later in the week, we had a problem with turkey in general and I stopped feeding all turkey. I intend to try again once things settle down with Tim's stomach. I like the idea of being a little more in control of what I feed the cats, but need to move very slowly given Tim's sensitive stomach.

 

[stephanie42]

the nutritionist included instructions on how to introduce piglet.  she says we'll need a slow transition to this high-fat diet, 7-10 days.  she says to start by adding a bit of lamb and sweet potato to piglet's normally food, etc.  once piglet is eating only lamb and sweet potato, add in canola oil and omega 3 oil, then add in the balanceit powder.  during this time, i should be trying to feed piglet the balanceit powder mixed in applesauce, pumpkin, or baby food.  none of which she will eat.  maybe i can find a baby food this go 'round, but when we've tried in the past it was not good.  i know cats are picky - this is the pickiest cat ever.  i've never seen a cat so adverse to yummy foods.  the only human foods i've been able to get her to lick at in the last few years are breyer's natural vanilla ice cream and my homemade raw cookie dough.  and i know i can't use either to deliver that amount of powder daily 

i'm about to lose my cool with this holistic vet (that was quick).  i emailed back to see what cut of lamb i should be using to grind, and what weights and cuts of chicken or turkey would be able to be swapped out for protein rotation and price.  i was told that the nutritional consultation only includes one recipe.... so i'm fuming.  again.  because i spent $300 on what i was told would be a specially formulated homemade diet for piglet.  to me, that does not equal ONE recipe that includes a commercially prepared product that i have to add.  i was anticipating purchasing all my own supplements and what not.  i'm really dissatisfied with this and think they should be more upfront with what it will entail.  because if they had told me it would be one recipe with a supplement powder, i would have politely declined and done this on my own.  feline instincts has a renal supplement powder that's comparable in price AND is formulated to be served with raw meat (which i'd prefer).  so i'm really kind of pissed off about the whole thing and trying to decide how to address it with the vet.  if i'm going to be working with him, i need him to WORK WITH ME.  ugh.  /endrant

 

[goholistic]

Yeh, it's possible that Piglet won't eat the homemade diet at all, at which point you'll be back to figuring something else out. If she likes vanilla ice cream, maybe you could try a little plain greek yogurt? 

I'm sorry you're upset. I don't fully know what the usual protocol is when it comes to getting a custom diet from a holistic vet. It does seem unreasonable to only offer one recipe, considering that the vet should know how picky cats can be. I think they should at least give three recipes using different proteins so that there can be a choice and some variety. The most recent holistic vet I worked with developed only one recipe (independently reviewed and tested) that she recommends to cats when appropriate. She doesn't always recommend it for certain conditions, and will suggest quality canned instead if it meets the cat's needs better.

 

[abbyntim]

I would be frustrated, too, with getting just one recipe. I would hope if piglet doesn't eat this recipe, the holistic vet will give you something else to try. I created free recipes for healthy cats for several proteins and see the amount of Balance IT varies depending on the meat, so it's not as simple as swapping the same amount in terms of weight.

As I mentioned in my previous post, I've dealt with a few kidney disease kitties and keeping them fed is so important but very difficult. One thing I learned, some kidney disease kitties have reduced sense of smell. Don't know why, the vet told us this and when I realized this, I was a little more successful in getting one cat in particular to eat. What you might want to do is slightly heat some baby food in a microwave oven. Just a bit, just enough to release the smell. This may encourage piglet to eat, maybe she doesn't smell/recognize it as food.

 

[stephanie42]

yeah, so i heard back from the vet.  he says another 'recipe' with another protein would cost another $200.

he's not getting a dime more of my money.

i appreciate the time, effort, and investment this nutritionist must have put into her practice and education.  but balanceIT has the software to develop these diets; they say so right on the website.  they sell the software to vets.  she had to plug in some info, choose lamb because it's warming and qi tonic (chinese medicine stuff), and pressed 'enter'.  i paid $300 for someone to tell me to buy a premade supplement, mix it with lamb and sweet potato, have a nice day.

livid does not describe how i feel right now.  i'm a student and a counselor, $300 is equal to a week and a half's pay for me.  i would never have agreed to have a diet designed for my piglet (which is what i was told was happening) if i had known it would be ONE recipe using a PREMADE mix.  i could just buy my own premade mix, do my own googling, and have my own recipe ready to go.

livid.  LIVID.  since i don't drink any more, i foresee ice cream sundaes in my future tonight.  i feel like i need to be talked off a ledge.  or talked out of driving to this vet's office and giving him a large, possibly profanity-laced piece of my mind.

 

[goholistic]

Well, perhaps after you've had a chance to calm down and sleep on it, you should explain to them why you're upset, how you felt you were deceived, and demand a refund (or at least a partial refund).

Do you plan to return to this vet?

 

[stephanie42]

i don't know if i plan on returning.  he wanted to charge me a total of $172 for an acupuncture session (acupuncture and an office visit fee) and i found a local veterinary acupuncturist 8 minutes away from me who charges $62.  i was going to let that slide because he's a private practice, etc. etc. etc.  but now with this?  i feel like price gouged.  i feel kind of violated.

i asked my husband what he expected from what the vet explained (he was in the office with me).  hubby said he expected a complete diet - multiple protein sources, a carb source like rice, and multiple supplements that we'd have to buy.  he said he thought there'd be 5 or 6 recipes.  so i know i'm not completely overreacting.  i also paid a cool $98 for a bottle of chinese herbs to support piglet's kidney function (180 capsules, one a day).  when i put it all on paper, i feel pretty stupid.  like i was duped into spending almost $600 that i'll never get back.  

i hate feeling like i've wasted money, which is exactly why i stuck with the same vet i didn't really like for so long - i knew there was a good chance i'd try out a new vet that i'd dislike even more (that happened twice already).  i don't like being spoken down to, which was my problem with a couple of other vets.  but now that i found a vet that doesn't really speak down to me, he just price gouges me.  ugh.  

i'm trying not to think about it for the rest of the night.  *trying*.

 

[neptuneandme]

piglet and i saw a holistic vet who charged $300 and designed a diet for piglet based on her needs and chinese medicine. the diet is home cooked - lamb, sweet potato, canola oil (?), omega 3, and balanceIT feline-k, which is for kitties with kidney issues.

I want to reply as a former holistic vet tech. I have used balanceIT before many times, and our doctors have prepared and approved recipes for lots of patients. It takes a lot of work to calculate a diet for a special needs patient. Your doctor is using blood work values, their own knowledge of nutrition and how to appropriately balance ingredients (this is extensive, normally), and anecdotal information about your cat to make sure it is palatable and suited to their individual needs. This is more than plugging a few numbers into a spreadsheet. Ive seen doctors art my former practice spend some time doing this. These diets are also not available without a vet‘s approval because nutrition is so critical to the health of a cat with special needs. That is why you can’t do it yourself. Besides the recipe you also had an exam and discussion about nutrition, which is valuable in itself.

The amount of money these vets make is usually barely enough to keep things afloat, and staff are not paid that well, despite having to know about herbs, holistic practices, nutrition, etc. on top of western medicine. Vet techs at traditional practices are paid far better. We work with holistic doctors because it is important to us to work as ethically as possible. Holistic doctors will have multiple degrees and certificates because they’ve studied traditional medicine and gone back for a lot more schooling in alternative therapies and skills.

That said, you should have known what you would be charged before it was too late if it was out of your budget. I realize the value of integrative medicine depends on your experience, understanding, and personal medical philosophy. But do please appreciate the kind of expertise and extended training and schooling holistic doctors take on in order to be able to treat with gentler, more natural methods, and usually a LOT better results. You can feed your cat a commercial prescription diet and your vet will likely sign off on it if that’s your choice, but those diets are very unhealthy and in the long run they do more harm than good.

Hope this isn’t taken negatively but without a window into how it works, a lot of people don’t have a good idea of what they are paying for. I Always used to encourage clients to ask what they are being charged for if it is not clear. No one wants to overcharge, and typically they undercharge. But you have every right to ask for an explanation of your bill.