Avidin (in eggwhites), blocks B Vitamins?

mrsgreenjeens

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Once again I am bringing up the topic of raw egg whites
.  Sorry, I thought I was finally done with this topic, then someone over in health asked if it was ok to feed his kidney cat egg whites, and I said it was a great idea, and that I fed Callie the ones from the carton (100% egg whites) raw with every meal.

Then someone posted a link from Tanya's CKD site that specifically talked about how good egg whites are for CKD cats, BUT THEY MUST ALWAYS BE WELL COOKED.  Here is what she says: 

"However, it is important to cook egg whites until they are hard, because uncooked egg white contains something called avidin, which combines with one of the B-complex vitamins (biotin) to make it unavailable, and CKD cats do need their B vitamins"

Well, I'm thinking ALL cats need their B vitamins, not just kidney cats.  So, is it possible that putting uncooked egg whites, or whole eggs for that matter, in our babies food, is NOT a good idea?  I think Dr Pierson's recipe calls for whole eggs doesn't it.  And vitamin B?  Why if the egg whites would essentially block the vitamin b?

I know we get conflicting all the time, but this is scientific, isn't it?  So, which one is right?  I knew feeding a whole raw egg (both yolk and white together) would negate some of the good stuff in the yolk) but now is any one adding additional whites to their furbabies food possibly causing issues, especially if they are kidney cats (needing additional Vit B)?

  I swear, one needs a PHD in chemistry to get the hang of this stuff
 

mschauer

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There is conflicting information about whether raw egg white should be fed to either cats or humans. The avidin in egg whites binds with biotin and makes the biotin unavailable for absorption by the body. Cooking the egg white deactivates avidin and keeps this from happening. Some sources say there is enough biotin in the yolk that even if some is made unavailable by the avidin there is still a sufficient amount left unbound.

The safest approach is to either cook the egg whites or discard them (or save them for your own use) and use only the raw yolks.
 

peaches08

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Dr. Pierson says to lightly cook the whites to reduce avidin binding and to reduce the salmonella risks (there was a salmonella outbreak in eggs in somewhat recent past). She did mention the same things mschauer said about the conflicting info about avidin binding. Plus, with her recipe, B complex is added so no big deal there.

Eggs are a great protein source for CRF patients, both cat and human!
 

tobykitten

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The egg is essentially a perfect food so I would imagine that as a whole it is balanced.

I have only ever fed raw egg yolks because the whites contain the avadin.  If you supplement B in larger quantities I wouldn't worry about it, but I don't see the point really of feeding whites when the yolk is where most of the nutrition is.
 

ldg

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Tobykitten, kitties with impaired renal function have trouble processing phosphorus. Meat is high in phosphorus; egg whites are a very high protein source with much less phosphorus, so for CRF kitties they are great to replace a portion of the meat.

Sally, I was working via PM with someone who was designing a homemade diet for a CRF kitty. She ended up hiring Dr. Pierson. It was in conversation that Dr. P said that the avidin issue in raw egg whites is overblown / overstated. But if it concerns you, cook the whites, certainly.
 
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furmonster mom

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The way I understand it is that the egg as a whole is balanced just fine, since the yolk has an excess of biotin to make the avidin a non-issue. 

However, if you are feeding a substantial amount of whites only as a protein replacement, there may be more avidin than the body can process effectively.  That is why you will find recommendations to cook the whites, you still get the protein benefits without the excess avidin.

I would be interested to hear Dr. P's explanation of exactly why the avidin issue is overblown.  I'd rather err on the side of caution, personally.
 

peaches08

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The catinfo site says that between the biotin in the yolk and B complex that it isn't much of a concern. I don't know what that would mean for folks who do not add B complex though.
 

furmonster mom

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The catinfo site says that between the biotin in the yolk and B complex that it isn't much of a concern. I don't know what that would mean for folks who do not add B complex though.
Right, but I believe we are talking about feeding the whites without the yolk as a replacement for some of the meat portion in meals.  In which case, raw whites would have the avidin without any mitigation from the yolk, but cooking the whites would effectively negate the avidin. 
 

peaches08

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Right, but I believe we are talking about feeding the whites without the yolk as a replacement for some of the meat portion in meals.  In which case, raw whites would have the avidin without any mitigation from the yolk, but cooking the whites would effectively negate the avidin. 
Ah. Dr. P mentions the avidin binding as overblown when fed with yolk and B complex...I'm not aware of her making any claims that the avidin binding isn't an issue with raw egg whites alone.
 

ldg

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She doesn't, in writing. In creating a personalized diet for someone who hired her as a consultant to do so, she said in conversation when building the diet for the CRF kitty that it didn't matter whether the egg whites were cooked or raw, that the avidin concern was overblown. And that was in relation to using just egg whites as a replacement for part of the meat in a homemade diet.

That's why I said if anyone wanted the thinking on that, they'd have to hire her for $175 an hour to find out why. ;)
 

peaches08

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Out of respect for Dr. Pierson who took the time to answer me on another forum for free about a different issue, I wouldn't dare cause her to lose her consultation fee. She's certainly researched the subject well!
 

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Sally, I've been watching Clark struggle to eat his cooked egg whites, so have been looking again at the cooked/raw egg white issue. I've focused more on people sites-paleo or body building- to see what they say, and the results are mixed. They all mention the avidin and trypsin isues. Some site scientific journals that say cooking increases bioavailability. I assume it's because the binding with biotin and other proteins is reduced. Some say cooking slows digestion. There was mention of proteins being denatured and some said that was good, some said that was bad. Some say the egg beaters are better than raw because of the pasteurization. They know that solves salmonella, they hope it solves the avidin issue. Ultimately there was no conclusion.

I think I will switch from a raw egg to organic Egg Beaters. I'll also try to cook it less in the microwave to see if that helps Clark. Today I mashed them instead of cutting in small pieces. He still noticed. There was one forum that was talking about temperature. It was 180 degrees for scrambled. 140 degrees for pasteurization. Maybe somewhere in between is the happy spot. Lori
 
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mrsgreenjeens

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Callie doesn't like them cooked, and I've tried them in various different ways...even tried lightly scrambling them in BUTTER!  But she does seem to like them raw, mixed into her canned food (she has totally rejected raw now, if I haven't said that now about 100 times
)  But I have only been using the pasteurized egg whites in the carton, and I don't give her too much in a day.  I really don't measure them, just pour some in, but I'm sure it doesn't equate to even a Tablespoon per meal, or maybe JUST that much.  

So, does Lewis like them cooked?  Have you been hard boiling them?  Hopefully Clark will like them slightly less cooked, or raw as a last resort.  Do you add extra Vitamin B to their mix (sorry, I forget).  I do NOT add anything now to Callie's food, since she's on canned, but have just ordered some Omega 3 oil to see if she'll eat that in her food, since she doesn't like salmon or krill oil.  Right now I'm just happy to get her to eat


Good luck!
 

mschauer

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Sally, I've been watching Clark struggle to eat his cooked egg whites, so have been looking again at the cooked/raw egg white issue. I've focused more on people sites-paleo or body building- to see what they say, and the results are mixed. They all mention the avidin and trypsin isues. Some site scientific journals that say cooking increases bioavailability. I assume it's because the binding with biotin and other proteins is reduced. Some say cooking slows digestion. There was mention of proteins being denatured and some said that was good, some said that was bad. Some say the egg beaters are better than raw because of the pasteurization. They know that solves salmonella, they hope it solves the avidin issue. Ultimately there was no conclusion.

I think I will switch from a raw egg to organic Egg Beaters. I'll also try to cook it less in the microwave to see if that helps Clark. Today I mashed them instead of cutting in small pieces. He still noticed. There was one forum that was talking about temperature. It was 180 degrees for scrambled. 140 degrees for pasteurization. Maybe somewhere in between is the happy spot. Lori
Why not just discard the whites and feed only the yolks? Is Clark a CRF kitty? 
 

lcat4

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Both my boys are working into it.  Clark's stage 2 - creatinine at 2.6 with dilute urine, his brother Lewis is at 3.3.  They seem to be doing okay, but they do have trouble with stomach acid.  Lewis tends to grind his teeth or jaw.  Their phosphorus numbers are still within a normal range; I'm just trying to reduce the amount of phosphorus they eat a bit, without going too overboard.  I'm trying to have them split an egg white each day and remove that much of their raw meat mixture.  Their calcium source is now eggshell, so the phos is already lower than when they had the MCHA bone. 

This morning I cooked the egg whites a little less.  Clark gobbled it up, Lewis didn't finish his breakfast. 
 
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mrsgreenjeens

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Both my boys are working into it.  Clark's stage 2 - creatinine at 2.6 with dilute urine, his brother Lewis is at 3.3.  They seem to be doing okay, but they do have trouble with stomach acid.  Lewis tends to grind his teeth or jaw.  Their phosphorus numbers are still within a normal range; I'm just trying to reduce the amount of phosphorus they eat a bit, without going too overboard.  I'm trying to have them split an egg white each day and remove that much of their raw meat mixture.  Their calcium source is now eggshell, so the phos is already lower than when they had the MCHA bone. 

This morning I cooked the egg whites a little less.  Clark gobbled it up, Lewis didn't finish his breakfast. 
Cats!  Gotta love 'em. 
  Well, if you buy the ones in the carton, you can cook them up separately and coddle your boys (pun intended
)
 
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