At wits end!

[franksmom]

Some of you may have seen my thread about my very picky ragdoll who is now having an ongoing hairball issue (http://www.thecatsite.com/t/259470/vomiting-bile-possible-blockage-in-ragodoll-what-to-ask-vet). I am fairly certain the cause of the hairballs is ibs/ibd. He has always been an extremely picky eater and I used to have to hand feed him wet food as a kitten and young cat. He never eats a lot of wet food and vomits every time I try to give him a tiny amount of raw (have tried chicken, duck and freeze dried lamb). 

I am thinking since he most likely has ibs if I should switch him to a novel protein diet? Do you think I should stop giving him chicken?  He currently eats tiki cat and weruva for wet and orijen for dry (I do not want to give him dry but it is the only way to get him enough calories). I am wondering about the Nature's Variety limited ingredient dry food and thought I should try turkey (http://www.naturesvariety.com/Instinct/cat/kibble/LIDturkey)? I also was thinking of trying the new pride line because they have a shredded version which is the only type of wet food he likes. My kitten tried the minced version and really loved it, though I am kind of concerned that there is so much spinach in it. Are there any other shredded or non-pate limited ingredient canned foods  I should try?

 

[ldg]

Question: have you tried organic pastured chicken? Sometimes kitties are sensitive to what the animals were fed. That's IMO why novel proteins work, because it's a different species of animal, fed differently.

I don't know what your schedule allows, but I do find that sick/sensitive kitties do well with frequent small meals. I couldn't do it for long, but Ming Loy needed 1/4 ounce every two hours (she only eats a total of 3 ounces a day). She did quickly adjust to 1/2 an ounce every 3-4 hours - you get the point. This usually, unfortunately, isn't a practical option though.

The LID foods are definitely worth a try. :dk:

Stupid question, perhaps - but have you tried digestive enzymes? (Prozyme original). Probiotics? (Human, not pet?) And you've already seen the suggestion to try egg yolks / egg yolk lecithin for the hairballs? FYI, if he can tolerate egg yolks (don't need to be raw) or likes them, the acetylcholine (a component of choline, something egg yolks have a lot of) helps improve GI motility. Sorry if you've already seen/tried these.

 

[ldg]

Something else I'm wondering... when Lazlo was on chemo, he seemed to be a very picky eater. But we know the issue was basically nausea. It was difficult to find food that smelled appetizing, and what smelled appetizing one day didn't necessarily smell appetizing the next. I'm wondering if picky eaters aren't "picky" - maybe they're mildly nauseous? I haven't seen the other thread, but have you tried pepcid a/c (famotidine) and/or the anti-nausea/anti-emetic meds, Cerenia or Reglan? If not, it might be worth a chat with the vet just to try giving pepcid a/c at night (at least an hour after or before any food - that way it works for 24 hours) and a dose of Cerenia once a day. Just to see what happens... :dk:

 

[ldg]

OK, I just read your other thread - you're in good hands with Carolina! :heart2: I see the Cerenia nightmare you had... I'm so so sorry, hun. I can't imagine not having it on hand - what a horrid vet experience! nfire:

I just realized my suggestion should be in your other thread. I know that for Carolina's long haired kitties, she's needed to use vaseline because the egg yolk lecithin wasn't enough to stop the hairballs. But her cats don't like egg yolks, and 2 or 3 a week really may make the difference. Anyway, I'll finish this thought there...

 

[franksmom]

I have tried both natures variety and carnivora for raw- the carnivora is organic.

Yes naturally he like to have a lot of very small meals a day. When I was trying to feed him all wet I had to feed him 5-6 times a day and like your cat he never eats more than 3 oz so that's why I supplement with dry.

Yeah for the hair balls I am giving him the goo from the vet which does have petroleum jelly in it- I am not crazy about giving it to him long term but it does work in tough cases like his.

I have bought this ibs/ibd treatment from vitality science which has probiotics and digestive enzymes and it supposed to have a great success rate and they have a money back guarantee.

I am so over vets right now and I just wish I could order the meds that work without having to go to one!

 

[jclark]

I'm in a similar situation and the entire experience is exhausting for both you and the cat. Nature's Variety has a line of limited ingredient dry food and possibly wet (I can't remember). They also have lamb and venison in canned I believe.Tried and true for IBD is RC Hypoallergenic (Rabbit, Venison, Soy varieties in canned and Rabbit, Duck, Soy in dry). The trick is finding the protein type that is causing the auto-immune response. I think RC Hypoallergenic takes a lot of the guesswork out of the equation.Personally I don't know if a raw diet works for IBD whereas it may work for IBS.IBS/IBD/Gastric Lymphoma is a really SOB no doubt.

 

[franksmom]

My problem with the RC is for the dry food the first ingredient is potato starch and the wet food has both grains and carrageenan which are both known to be bad for cats with Ibd/ibs. 

I am not really sure if it is any protein that is causing it because he is usually fine with the tiki cat chicken but he just has these flare ups with the hairballs. He is completely back to normal today and eating his favourite freeze dried chicken with no problem.

 

[jclark]

My problem with the RC is for the dry food the first ingredient is potato starch and the wet food has both grains and carrageenan which are both known to be bad for cats with Ibd/ibs. 

I am not really sure if it is any protein that is causing it because he is usually fine with the tiki cat chicken but he just has these flare ups with the hairballs. He is completely back to normal today and eating his favourite freeze dried chicken with no problem.

Actually the Hypoallergenic dry (Duck, Venison) contain peas and no potato starch so keep that in mind. While the wet may contain some Carrageean it's way down on the list and the bigger issue with IBD is the auto-immune response to whatever protein is causing the problem which btw could be chicken.Like they say. The secret can be a novel (ie, new) protein which the body won't attack.Remember, hairballs aren't normal.

 

[vball91]

The auto immune response could be to ANY ingredient, not just the protein. The novel protein diet works by eliminating as many ingredients as possible AND using a novel protein to cut down on as many potential inflammation triggers as possible.

 

[franksmom]

Actually the Hypoallergenic dry (Duck, Venison) contain peas and no potato starch so keep that in mind. While the wet may contain some Carrageean it's way down on the list and the bigger issue with IBD is the auto-immune response to whatever protein is causing the problem which btw could be chicken.Like they say. The secret can be a novel (ie, new) protein which the body won't attack.Remember, hairballs aren't normal.

Well that is strange because none of the foods on the website had any meat as the first ingridient- do you have the link to the version you are talking about?

As for the wet food the ones I saw had grains at the top of the list and the carrageenan was not that far down the list, and I do not want to feed that in any amount due to the cancer risk as well.

 

[franksmom]

The auto immune response could be to ANY ingredient, not just the protein. The novel protein diet works by eliminating as many ingredients as possible AND using a novel protein to cut down on as many potential inflammation triggers as possible.

Thanks I think this makes more sense. I am also wondering if his ibs is stress induced like it can be in humans, because this all started after we got a new kitten and he never had these problems before.

 

[vball91]

I definitely think that stress can be an inflammation trigger. Stress is known to be a factor for FLUTD cases, and bladder inflammation is very common for FLUTD.

 

[franksmom]

I definitely think that stress can be an inflammation trigger. Stress is known to be a factor for FLUTD cases, and bladder inflammation is very common for FLUTD.

Yeah he had stess induced FLUTD once as a kitten so this makes more sense than a food allergy since he has had the same food for 4 years without any issues. I still may try the natures variety to see if it makes any difference, but am not keen on feeding him any foods with a lot of grains.

 

[vball91]

Well, food allergies do develop over time, and feeding the same food is more likely to cause an allergic reaction over time than a rotation of different foods. Therefore, I wouldn't rule out a food allergy entirely, but stress could definitely still be a factor whether or not a food allergy is involved.

 

[franksmom]

Well, food allergies do develop over time, and feeding the same food is more likely to cause an allergic reaction over time than a rotation of different foods. Therefore, I wouldn't rule out a food allergy entirely, but stress could definitely still be a factor whether or not a food allergy is involved.

Totally understand I do rotate food for him. As a kitten he was on Orijen and Welness wet, he was then on the vets dental diet (which I didn't want to feed my my sisters cat ate that and frank would refuse to eat any other food!). He is now back on Orijen and eats a variety of roatating wet ( tiki cat, weruva and Welness). It for sure may be a food allergy though it is strange to me that it comes and goes in waves. I guess my best bet is to try the natures variety wet and dry and hope he will eat the wet.

 

[jclark]

Totally understand I do rotate food for him. As a kitten he was on Orijen and Welness wet, he was then on the vets dental diet (which I didn't want to feed my my sisters cat ate that and frank would refuse to eat any other food!). He is now back on Orijen and eats a variety of roatating wet ( tiki cat, weruva and Welness). It for sure may be a food allergy though it is strange to me that it comes and goes in waves. I guess my best bet is to try the natures variety wet and dry and hope he will eat the wet.

I like Nature's Variety Grain Free. My kittens and Sr. Main Coon (when he wants to) are fed it everyday.I just rotate Chicken, Duck, Rabbit, on a daily basis since all three consume in total at least a can a day.