Asking For The Pros To Critique My Recipe, Please

[coffeecat2420]

Good morning! I am prepping to make my first batch of homemade raw rabbit. After reviewing files and recipes, I believe I have this balanced, but if not, please critique and educate me. I was considering leaving out the egg due to possible chicken allergy ... thoughts? This batch is for a food trial of several weeks. I'd appreciate any input from experienced raw feeders!

10 lbs meat, bone, organs from Hare Today (75/10/10)
4.5 pounds rabbit meat (boneless)
.5 pounds rabbit organs (liver, heart, kidney: approx 50/25/25)
= 15 lbs (80/10/10)

5,000 mg taurine
10 egg yolks
500 mg B complex
10,000 krill oil
1,000 mg vitamin E (dry form)
3 3/4 tsp lite salt
+ water to mix and adjust per consistency preference

 

[orange&white]

We were just discussing on one of valentine319 's threads that you may need to double the taurine when using ground meats (versus cutting chunks of fresh meat). If you are "chunking" the extra boneless meat, and depending on the type of meat you're adding, you should be all right.

Does the HT rabbit contain the thyroid gland or is that only the whole carcass with fur and all? I'd double check that, and if thyroid is included, cut back on the Lite Salt (it's for iodine) by about half. If it's not included, you're good.

You've made sure that your "organs" are going to end up with 5% liver?

 

[coffeecat2420]

Thanks so much for the input, Orange&White!
From what I understand, HT I am purchasing does not contain the thyroid (this is not the whole carcass).

The ratios I came up with were from the raw calculator using the liver-heart-kidney mix (50/20/25) as the organs. Hm, so that looks like extra math I'll need to figure?

Someone on a cross-post I made in FB mentioned I'll need to add vitamin D if I use krill oil vs. regular fish oil ...

 

[valentine319]

My brain can't do math as far as the meat ratios right now.

Easy Raw Diet Feeding for the Busy Person - Feline Nutrition
So I'm assuming at 15 lbs it would be the following
12,000 mg taurine
12 egg yolks
12,000 mg fish oil (krill I see is your preferred kind)
2,400 IU vitamin E (dry version)
600 mg B complex
4 1/2 tsp lite salt (Orange and white said 3 3/4 was good so I would go with that)
12 tsp psyllum husk powder ( if you use this)
Filtered or bottled water

This is just the general supplement math so if it's off please correct me.

 

[orange&white]

It's confusing. LOL

I usually try to plan approx. 1.5, 3, 4.5 or 6 pounds batches of food, then use 25%, 50%, 75% or 100% of the supplements from the recipe. Since 15 pounds is equally divisible by 1.5 then 10 x the supplements for a 1.5lb batch (or 5x the supplements of a 3 pound batch). I get the same numbers as coffeecat2420 .

The taurine probably does need to be increased since you're using ground meat.

Thanks so much for the input, Orange&White!
From what I understand, HT I am purchasing does not contain the thyroid (this is not the whole carcass).

...

You're good to go with the Lite Salt then.

The ratios I came up with were from the raw calculator using the liver-heart-kidney mix (50/20/25) as the organs. Hm, so that looks like extra math I'll need to figure?...

Yes. Heart counts as boneless muscle meat. Liver should always be right at 5%. Kidney would be "other secreting organs" at 5%.

Someone on a cross-post I made in FB mentioned I'll need to add vitamin D if I use krill oil vs. regular fish oil ...

I've never read the need to supplement Vitamin D for pet food. That is a "people supplement" recommendation, D + fish oil. The only thing I've read that is necessary with fish oil is the Vitamin E, which you have in your supplements. I have seen that supplementing Vitamin D in dogs can be toxic, but haven't looked up anything about Vit-D for cats. Ask the FB person for their source.

 

[valentine319]

I saw this and it had some good points. I believe the D toxicity issue is important.

5 dangerous homemade cat food mistakes + how to avoid them

Only premixes are mentioned but it has some good points.

Fyi-I'm in no way saying I'm an expert, I'm a beginner. I'm in no way familiar with the difference in using Krill versus fish oil.

 

[valentine319]

Here's a link to a discussion on the forum regarding omega 3s.
Omega-3 Supplements for Cats??

I did see a blog say be careful where you get krill oil. From the link above. Arctic Pacific krill oil in the product. "I cannot confirm it, but there is concern about eco-system damage from this kind of krill fishing and some are also concerned with a risk of Fukushima radiation contamination in Pacific krill oil." so you want to check where the krill oil comes from.

 

[orange&white]

5 dangerous homemade cat food mistakes + how to avoid them

.

Good article for newbies and pros!

 

[valentine319]

It looks like A & D are needed if no liver is used.
Recipes

I know it's a recipe but it would explain A&D.

200 grams [7 oz] raw liver (chicken liver if you can source it - it's best to not use beef liver; if you can't find appropriate liver, you can substitute 40,000 IU of Vitamin A and 1600 IU of Vitamin D--but try to use real liver rather than substitutes)

 

[amysuen]

I saw this and it had some good points. I believe the D toxicity issue is important.

5 dangerous homemade cat food mistakes + how to avoid them

Thanks for this!!

I may have been making mistake #3, but not the others so I feel pretty good about things.

 

[coffeecat2420]

Thank you everyone for all the replies!

 

[coffeecat2420]

We were just discussing on one of valentine319 's threads that you may need to double the taurine when using ground meats (versus cutting chunks of fresh meat). If you are "chunking" the extra boneless meat, and depending on the type of meat you're adding, you should be all right.

Does the HT rabbit contain the thyroid gland or is that only the whole carcass with fur and all? I'd double check that, and if thyroid is included, cut back on the Lite Salt (it's for iodine) by about half. If it's not included, you're good.

You've made sure that your "organs" are going to end up with 5% liver?

OK, so I was reading other threads and now realize I MISREAD the description of the ground rabbit/bones/organs! It DOES include the thyroid - "Whole ground rabbit includes meat, bones, head, and organs (liver, heart, lung, pancreas, thyroid gland, spleen and kidneys). The fur, stomach and intestine are removed."

I had skipped ahead to meat-bone-organ ratio - 75% meat 15% bone 10% organ [liver, pancreas, kidney].

So, sorry for adding to that confusion. I have to quit reading, formulating, and researching when I'm so tired.

 

[orange&white]

LTS3 was asking about adding Alnutrin to Hare Today rabbit. I couldn't remember which thread said the "regular" rabbit didn't contain the thyroid, or I would have come back and posted the correction here.

Did you already process your mix with supplements?

 

[coffeecat2420]

LTS3 was asking about adding Alnutrin to Hare Today rabbit. I couldn't remember which thread said the "regular" rabbit didn't contain the thyroid, or I would have come back and posted the correction here.

Did you already process your mix with supplements?

Hi! I have not processed - I settled on an order of the whole ground carcass. So, do not add salt to that, right?

I am still in the process of purchasing my supplements. I will also buy some Alnutrin (for bone) to have on hand so we can try both in different batches.

 

[valentine319]

From what i understand

1/2 of this: 1 1/2 tsp lite salt per 5 lbs or skip adding any.

If i have it wrong please correct me.

 

[orange&white]

Is this still your planned mix:

10 lbs meat, bone, organs from Hare Today (75/10/10)
4.5 pounds rabbit meat (boneless)
.5 pounds rabbit organs (liver, heart, kidney: approx 50/25/25)

We want to clarify that only the 10 lbs of meat, bone, organ contain the thyroid? (That's a question, not a statement. )

So now you have 5 pounds of meat and organs with no thyroid included, right? I would add slightly over 1 tsp of Lite Salt to that.

There is no data on how much iodine a rabbit's thyroid gland contains, but we know that the majority of any mammal's iodine is stored in the thyroid. The unknowns are part of the frustrating part of raw feeding. I would assume that the thyroid in the 5 pounds of ground rabbit is the right amount (nature's balance that would occur in a 5 lb rabbit's thyroid) and just supplement salt in the meats/organs which do not contain thyroid.

 

[valentine319]

Thanks for this!!

I may have been making mistake #3, but not the others so I feel pretty good about things.

If i were going to grind my own I would have done number 3. I would then be posting how do I salvage after clogging grinder and getting the slurry vitamin mix all over everything.

It was bad enough my friend stopped over, grabbed the plastic wrap. "eww" as she found a chunk of rabbit trying to make a run for it. "sorry I lost a chunk of rabbit"

 

[valentine319]

Is this still your planned mix:

10 lbs meat, bone, organs from Hare Today (75/10/10)
4.5 pounds rabbit meat (boneless)
.5 pounds rabbit organs (liver, heart, kidney: approx 50/25/25)

We want to clarify that only the 10 lbs of meat, bone, organ contain the thyroid? (That's a question, not a statement. )

So now you have 5 pounds of meat and organs with no thyroid included, right? I would add slightly over 1 tsp of Lite Salt to that.

There is no data on how much iodine a rabbit's thyroid gland contains, but we know that the majority of any mammal's iodine is stored in the thyroid. The unknowns are part of the frustrating part of raw feeding. I would assume that the thyroid in the 5 pounds of ground rabbit is the right amount (nature's balance that would occur in a 5 lb rabbit's thyroid) and just supplement salt in the meats/organs which do not contain thyroid.

Ah see i missed that it wasn't just whole carcass. Great catch!

 

[valentine319]

The only other logistical thing after doing up 5 lb chubs individually would be to make sure you have something big enough mix everything. You could split the mix but just make sure you've got something big enough to mix it all. I've got tons of bowls but was hitting my capacity after adding the slurry vitamin mix. I need a huge bowl to make my next mix easier.

 

[amysuen]

If i were going to grind my own I would have done number 3. I would then be posting how do I salvage after clogging grinder and getting the slurry vitamin mix all over everything.

It was bad enough my friend stopped over, grabbed the plastic wrap. "eww" as she found a chunk of rabbit trying to make a run for it. "sorry I lost a chunk of rabbit"

The only other logistical thing after doing up 5 lb chubs individually would be to make sure you have something big enough mix everything. You could split the mix but just make sure you've got something big enough to mix it all. I've got tons of bowls but was hitting my capacity after adding the slurry vitamin mix. I need a huge bowl to make my next mix easier.

I use our giant spaghetti pot to mix everything in. But so far I've only made 7-10 days' worth, which is still quite a bit since we're feeding 2 adult cats and 2 kittens.