Are You Feral Or Not??

[missasilin]

Hello, first post here... desperate for some advice!
I have been feeding 2 outdoor cats for about 10 months. The one I was able to successfully TNR but the other never fell for my trap, and much to my dismay I saw her with 3 kittens. When the kittens were about 8-9 weeks I was able to catch one who was crying under my porch. I never did find the other two. The good news is, the kitten I caught was able to be very quickly socialized and is now in his forever home, where he is very loved.
Now on to the problem. At long last (and a great tip about using rotisserie chicken), I was able to trap mom. I assumed she would be a TNR situation too but she had a pretty bad respiratory infection. I was able to get her antibiotics and spayed, but she did not seem like my other TNR cat. No thrashing in the cage, after a few days when the respiratory infection cleared up she let me pet her (sporadically, but when I am able to she purrs a lot), she plays with toys, and she shows me her belly an awful lot. So I got to thinking she isn't really feral but perhaps was someone's pet at one point? She does get scared very easily but she's never aggressive, will just hiss and hide if something isn't to her liking.
I can't keep her because my cat absolutely hates other cats but given her behavior I was hoping maybe she could be socialized too. Right now she's living in my guest bedroom separated from my cat. But the past couple nights she meows. Loudly. ALL NIGHT LONG. So the meowing makes me think, does she want out?? But then I go in the room and she immediately stops and starts rolling around showing me her tummy again. I have no idea what to do with this cat in terms of trying to keep her and socialize her or put her back outside. She's not a clear feral like the other one was. Any advice would be so appreciated! I'm new to this site but I'm going to try to upload some pics I just took (yes at 3:30am when I went in the room to see what the problem was) of her showing her belly. I caught her on Thursday evening and she was spayed Friday, so I've only had her about 6 days.
Alison

 

[maggiedemi]

She's really cute. She doesn't really sound feral. Does she bite or scratch if you try to pick her up? Does she flip out when she sees a stranger? My former ferals are still terrified of every new stranger, the mail lady, UPS guy, kids playing outside. They act like the world is coming to an end.

 

[StefanZ]

Yes, the reaction to visitors may be the probier stone here.

Thing is, you catched her when she was sick, and and later spayed with following recovalescence, no? So she was ill and got good help and care from you. Which she knows.
In such situations, the Window of easy socialisation opens up again.

Its fully possible she is semiferale, but in accelerated tempo warmed up to you because of your helping her and caretaking.

Whichever, she is of course now a given candidate for further fostering and trying to find adoption home. But if its impossible, you CAN return her out, á la TNR. Not pleasant, but she will manage.
She is used and proved she managed, dumped or true semi-feral...

 

[Sarthur2]

She sounds like she would make a very sweet pet!

She just sounds lonely to me. Now that she feels better, she wants to socialize and check out her surroundings. That's what the meowing is about! She wants out of the room.

Try spending the night in the room with her to see what happens. Also, try closing your cat in your room, and letting this kitty explore your home a bit.

She sounds very much like a candidate for a home. I would not put her back outside.

Thanks for caring for her!

 

[missasilin]

She has met 3 other people and didn't flip out but definitely looked nervous. I haven't tried to pick her up- I'm pretty sure she would freak out if I did that, I've had to move so slowly with even petting her (she likes her head, cheeks, and chin scratched).
I'll try putting my cat in my bedroom tonight and giving mom kitty the run of the house- hopefully I'll be able to get her back in the bedroom in the morning, lol! I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks,
Alison

 

[Sarthur2]

I hope that goes well.

 

[kittychick]

She's certainly not feral at this point!!!! A feral kitty wouldn't - in a million years - be this quick (only 6 days and you've got tummy rub action!!!!!) to do such non-feral things as look beyond adorable and want her belly rubbed this quickly (I realize you did work with her outside too - - - but 90% of her behavior inside is extremely non-feral). I might have missed it in your note- but did it take alot of work in the 10 months she was outside for her to even come near? In other words - did she act very feral initially and then, with alot of work on your part, come to trust you and only you?

Everything she's done post-trap is beyond non-feral (and we've done alot of true feral trapping) I can guarantee you not a one of the "true ferals" would have shown me their belly, played with toys, let me pet them, etc. Sounds like she was either a dump (once someone's cat with a home - -but someone decided they'd had enough of her, for whatever reason, and got rid of her) - or someone's cat who got out and got lost. It's even possible she was born feral, played with alot as a very young kitten and therefore basically socialized - but then someone decided they couldn't take on anymore and she was forced to go back and try to scrape through life as a feral. That happens alot - "cute kittens" are fun to play with, but when they get bigger, whoever found her and played with her, wasn't interested once she wasn't a tiny fluff ball anymore. It's sad. Her being jumpy and hissing and hiding when frightened sounds like she figured out that the ONLY way she was surviving outside was to be afraid (I always remind adopters of socialized ferals to expect some jumpiness - - - it's what kept them alive so that they could eventually find their way to you - a loving home - - - or at least someone who can lead her to one). IF she were truly feral - she wouldn't be so quick to just come right back around once she's determined she's not in a life-or-death situation.

I think she sounds VERY socializable (and like she's basically there already!). If she hadn't just had kittens I would have said she was meowing to get back to kittens, but since you're 100% sure there isn't a litter waiting for her out there, it honestly sounds as though she's just missing you (or some kind of companionship)! Especially since it stops as soon as you enter the room and offer her some love and affection. So it does sounds like her issue isn't that she needs to be socialized (as in feral to housecat) - - -it sounds as though her only real issue will be getting her socialized to be able to get along with your current kitty (what's his/her name?). This is generally something that's very achievable - although it can be something that takes patience. But if you've got the patience for TNR, I bet you've got the patience to work through this little roadblock!!! Don't rush the picking up - or get discouraged if it's not her favorite thing yet (two of mine - - who were NOT ferals to start wth - - just refI've had LOTS of kitties who hated others I brought in to foster - -- - and eventually, with the exception of only ONE cat in 20 years of fostering and TNRing, I've been able to successfully introduce the foster and our indoor "lifers"! And even the one we just couldn't make work ended up in a loving, multi-cat household.

So bottom line - - if you do decide to try keeping her (she's SUPER adorable and sounds like she already really loves you -- - nudge nudge wink wink!!!!!! And getting her into a no-kill cat shelter - - - particularly in the summertime at the height of kitten season - - will be difficult at best, so if there's any chance you can try to give this sweetie who already seems to love you a chance at forever love, I hope you'll definitely consider taking the path of working at socializing your current fur baby and this little sweetie who has chosen you . I guarantee, there are LOTS of us on this site who can offer TONS of advice on socializing the two to each other.

That subject needs more time and explanation (and a clearer head than I have at 1:00 am!). My main advice is take introductions between the two adults VERY VERY slow- - - snail's pace. Beyond snail's pace....slug's pace. Or even slower if there's something slower. Glacier's pace. For now, while you're determine how you want this to end up, keep her in your second bedroom (litterbox, food, water, and, if possible, give her a kitty or dog crate with snuggly blankets inside (and the door off so she's not accidentally locked in) so she'll have a place to go if she's nervous. The blankets also end up as "scent soakers" that can utilized in a bit to get your current guy to get used to her smell. I start off by blocking off under the door for a few days with a towel. Then in a few days I pull the towel from under the door so that both can start to sniff each other under the door. If things get ugly and there's fighting under the door, you can always replace the towel for a bit. I also usually purchase a few "Feliway plug-ins" --- which disperse calming cat pheromones and help both sides feel calmer. I also put a radio in the new kitties' room, tuned to a low-volume, soft talk radio (no scream-y stuff!) - - I know some people prefer classical music though (like StefanZ ) - - which I think is fine too. And probably less critical which since she's in no way a terrified feral like we're used to counseling on But the constant low sound of the radio will help her get even more used to voices - - and will drown out the scary sounds of her new surroundings.

Again - more can be gone into on the slooooow introduction process -- but I'd start with these first few steps. Don't rush it - that's where people go wrong. I know you want to rush them together - - - but it'll probably cause a set-back that isn't worth it. I think you're going to end up with a WONDERFUL happy family out of this - - - I think she chose you for a reason!

So keep us posted - - and many of us can walk you through the introduction process. Slow and steady! And I hope this little sweetie ends up being best buds with EVERYONE (furry and non) in your house. Bravo to you for taking care of ALL!!!!!!!

 

[missasilin]

Hi kittychick, thanks so much for your post! I think I was afraid that I was attached to her and perhaps seeing what I wanted to see, and I didn't want to keep a feral cat indoors who would truly be happier outside. So it was great to hear someone else confirm that it sounds like she was perhaps a former pet. At first I had her food on my back deck and she would bolt at literally any sign of me. Then my neighbors complained to the condo association that I was feeding outdoor cats (ugh don't even get me started on them) so I moved the food into the garage to be more discreet. I worried she wouldn't come in the garage but she clearly felt more safe in there! It got to the point where I would put the food out and I could see her in the bushes waiting for me, giving me a look like "okay can you hurry up and leave so I can come in" haha. So she sort of got used to the sight of me but not much more progress than that. But from the moment I trapped her she wasn't like the other feral cat I caught. No thrashing around in the cage, and once I brought her inside she immediately fell asleep like oh thank goodness I can get some rest.
I didn't leave the door open last night and there was no meowing so hopefully she's starting to trust that I always come back! She is still not a huge fan of being pet unless she's in the right mood but I see tummy and she loves to play with cat toys every time I go in.
My cat's name is Mrs Boo (I'll include a pic). She is 17 years old and HATES other cats which is why after all this time I still only have one. I don't think she will ever be okay with another cat. She poofs up huge when she sees one, starts making this awful screaming noise, foams at the mouth, and tries to viciously attack the other cat. It's so crazy, I've never seen anything like it. It's so scary I had her checked out and medically they said there is nothing wrong. So I just always kept her as a single cat. But I was hoping to get beaker more trusting of humans- less hissy (happening already) and hiding less (better here too although the smallest move a little too fast will send her back into her safe spot). I hope she lets me pet her more too. Then perhaps I can find her a special forever home (definitely not a shelter). At the beginning I think I forced it too much but now I try less often, kind of waiting for her to let me know when it's okay. Any thoughts on that?
Anyways thanks for your post and I will take all the suggestions you have to offer! I feel better about keeping her inside, like she really is not feral and is slowly but surely happier inside and it wasn't just in my head, LOL! Beaker is the gray striped, and Mrs Boo is the tortie.
Alison

 

[kittychick]

I hear ya on the angry, cranky (and VOCAL) neighbors even when you're trying to help by getting them fixed. Ditto in our neighborhood!!!!!! I 100% believe you're not seeing something that's not there - she was definitely a former pet - - -or at the very least, played with alot when she was small. My bet is on abandoned pet. But 100% not totally feral - no way.

Awww - - both are adorable! Mrs. Boo's really beautiful I'm a tortie lover - - - I've had several - - and she's got beautiful markings! I know alot of people will swear torties are crazy, more temperamental, etc. - - - but I haven't found that to be true. I feel like crazy comes in ALL colors!

Has Mrs. Boo always reacted that way to other cats? At 17 - anything new in her territory is probably extra-threatening. Most (knock on wood) of our kitties have been very long-lived (as in lived to 18/19 and beyond) and I find that it definitely gets harder to introduce new ANYTHING (even bedspreads!) to established kitties after they're 16/17+. Not that it can't be done - - - but the much older ones generally seem a tad less accepting (kind of like people, right?).

But it sounds as though keeping her probably isn't the direction you're ultimately headed. Obviously that would be great since Beaker obviously loves you already - - and assuming you could get all on board (furry and non). But if that's not in the cards - I understand. I love hearing that you at least want to make her as trusting of others and demonstrably loving & fun as possible so that it opens her up to a larger group of people who'd be interested in adopting her. I agree that - if at all possible - - it'd be best and easiest on her to not have to run her through a shelter system (even a super-great, no kill one) just because shelters are a stressful thing by the general nature of how a shelter works (I'm in NO way insinuating even the tiniest bit nasty thing about shelters - - I've worked for and volunteered for many amazing ones who do TONS of good). Many (most?) are absotluely amazing, doing the best they can on little money with little help, and finding LOTS of homes for cats that would otherwise have no shot - -- it's just that it's a stressful process for most kitties, as I think anyone in a shelter would agree.

So if you can help her find a good home without having to go that direction -that's wonderful. Someone on here used to have some great sources for info on how to search for and then screen potential adopters for your baby. Anyone remember who that was?

I can write more later on introductions (even if you're not ultimately keeping her) since you're right - - - being able to say she gets along with other cats is a WONDERFUL thing to be able to tout when trying to find her a great forever home! I (and lots of us) can even help on intros with other people - - since that'll be part of it too if you're going to work on finding her a home yourself. She obviously knows you well since you've been feeding her yourself for some time - - and even the most feral of cats will often end up bonding a bit to their "colony caretaker." But sounds like she's friendlier than that - - - and it's more a matter of getting her to know MOST humans are good

But for the next day or so till more of us can weigh in with help - - don't push petting TOO much yet, and definitely not the picking up much yet at all. DOn't forget - she just had major surgery on her belly - I wouldn't want to be picked up yet either even if normally I DID love it

And you very likely are right - - - her panicking to get out was less of a "I hate it here!" then "is that nice lady coming back soon?" Remember - she has NO idea what's happening. Even if she was someone's indoor kitty at some point - - -her life's been turned upside down right now and she has no idea why (don't you wish they understood english?). But it sounds like she's THRILLED when you come back - - -which is a HUGE indicator that she WANTS a home and love vs is yearning for the scary big bad outside world. And again - a radio (or we often even use a TV set to something quiet and non-streamy like HGTV since we foster and socialize in a very large extra bedroom) can prove to be a source of comfort that she's not alone.

For right now - focus more on petting her when she seems open to it (and only on "safe places" like top of her head, scratching under her chin and along her cheeks, etc) - - and maybe try introducing her to a brush! Get something she absolutely goes "ga ga" for treat-wise. I always try what we all refer to as "kitty crack" - which is Gerber human baby food (Stage Two Chicken only bc lots of other flavors have garlic/onion -- which is bad for kitties). Put a little on a spoon, let her lick at it, and start to brush her (again - safe places like top of the head, down her back even) while she's doing so. She'll love that you brought her the yummiest thing in the world (I'll warn you - it's also the stankiest!), and she'll be SO focussed on it you can sneak in brushings/pettings/etc. The Gerber's (if she loves it) is also REALLY helpful in introducing new people to her - once you're at that stage.

We'll get her there - - there are lots of people on this site that are rooting for you AND Beaker (great name by the way)!!! Keep us posted - never hesitate to ask any question, or just vent any feeling, or post happy milestones! This is a wonderful community with lots of support and info to offer

 

[missasilin]

I'm so glad I found this forum!! Mrs Boo was fine with other cats when she was a couple years old, but then all the sudden one day she snapped. I don't know what happened, perhaps something very traumatic, but I woke up to her screaming and foaming and trying to attack the unfortunate Mr Boo. To this day she has that same reaction to any cat at all, so probably the last 14-15 years. I lost all hope in trying to get her to be okay with another cat with a near lifetime of that behavior. I would love for her to be okay with Beaker but it seems impossible
I meant to say, I have left the tv on at low volume for some background noise and human voices. A brush is a great idea- I'll try that (and the baby food) next!!
Alison

 

[missasilin]

Just wanted to share an update on day 11 with my "feral" (yeah right) cat Still extremely skittish, but sometimes we have moments like this and it's like oh geez I can't believe this cat was living outdoors for so long.

 

[Sarthur2]

That's awesome!

 

[kittychick]

Boy - I'd run!!!! She looks terrifying and vicious!!!!!!!

I'm so glad you're sticking with her - -- she obviously was abandoned and needed someone to give her a shot.

I needed something fun like this after a rotten day! YEAH for both of you!!!!!!!

 

[missasilin]

Beaker the fake feral and I are doing well, each day she is a bit more comfortable. A problem I am having is that she is starting to knead me. It's adorable and all- thanks for the affection, I am very fond of you too- but OUCH those sharp claws hurt!! And when I jump or jerk back from the claws it scares her very easily. I read about the soft paws product but I don't think she would allow me to apply them at this time, we are still in the beginning phases of touching (head, cheek, and chin scratches only please). Any other solutions for these sharp sharp claws? It took 3 different products but I finally found a scratching post she uses regularly, the furniture is mostly left alone, i just need her to stop scratching me, lol. oh and here's another pic of course! She recently discovered there is a bed in this room, and it's much more comfortable than the ground outside it turns out

 

[Alejandra Rico]

I am so happy everything is going well! I just want to say she is a lovely beautiful cat. I would go as far as to say that if she is not a bengal X, she is a nice look alike. Even her behaviour kinda meets some of the breed characteristics and one of the pictures shows what looks like glitter.
You may have found a backyard breeder's cat that has scaped or being abandomned for not fully meeting the breed standard.

 

[kittychick]

Yup....I think "fake feral" is a great way to describe her. Either that or "big soft pile of mushy cat." What an SWEETHEART And she's definitely picked you!

It sounds like you are very cat familiar - so don't take anything I say ever that you know already as a sign I think you're a "cat dope" - - it's just hard to tell who knows how much on a site like this. And I'd rather risk offering info the poster already knows, then let the chance for good info to slide by. So - - her kneading you is an absolutely a show of comfort, trust and love. The thinking is that they do that when they're SUPER content - taking themselves back to when they were at mamma's nipple, and kneading to bring the milk down. So if she's kneading you - - - she's in love But I do know what you mean - we have a teeny, tiny ex-feral ("Flick" ----that is perfect in almost every way) - - but have to say she can knead and get in there with her teeny tiny razor sharp claws like no cat I've ever seen. And she's of course a big "fuss putter-upper" when it comes to claw trimming.

Some people have GREAT luck with the nail caps usually called "Soft Paws" -- -me, not so much. I've tried with several - -- and for me, trying to put them on resulted in such huge fights I decide it wasn't meant to be. However- i do have friends who have amazing luck with them. But ours - no way. The scratches putting ON the Soft Paws are WAY worse than any damage she could do scratching things (or me) without them.

I can say though that you can get your new adorable sweetie used to the nail clipping a bit more if you try. First, take some time (maybe a few weeks of so ) of JUST MASSAGING her paws when she's sleepy. Work with her by gently touching the paw pads - working your way up to pushing them in lightly so that the claws extends.And then, for being SUCH a good kitty, give her a treat. DO it only "post nap" - - and keep the training sessions short - only a few pads/nails at a time. As you move up to actually slipping the nail into a clipper, don't even clip the first few times. Just get her used to the "shiny tool" only do it when she's sleepy. As in - JUST woke up from a nap (not 10 min after). Work your way up to an entire foot at a time. With Flick we STILL just do one to two paws at a time. She's the gentlest thing - but she's a dervish when it comes to the nails! So we just keep clippers on the end tables where we watch tv - and do it when we can. You'll get it! Remember the tortoise and the hare? Think slow and steady

Keep us posted - of course with more pics!

 

[missasilin]

Thanks very much kittychick!! Our progression through every milestone has been a slow process but always worth the wait, so your description on slowly introducing nail clippers sounds like my best option. I'll start with massaging the paws and see how that goes, she seems mostly okay with me touching her paws when she's sleepy. I'm pretty familiar with cats but this is my first experience bringing in a stray so I appreciate all the detail you provide!
Of course I only post the cute pics but it's not all perfect progress. For the most part she shows signs of being increasingly comfortable with me but last night she started hissing like crazy which she hasn't done in a while, it was so bizarre. I have no idea what set her off, it was a little scary. I think I read on here somewhere with outdoor cats sometimes you just have to be prepared to take 2 steps forward and 3 back. It's definitely an exercise in patience! But she seems back to her baseline this morning so thankfully whatever had her so upset last night seems to be temporary at least.
Alison

 

[kittychick]

THat's a saying we say on this site alot - - - there's alot of forward and backward. Working with ferals has taught me ALOT about patience -- something the universe (and my husband) knew I needed that

And yes - strays/ferals/housecats - - -not only is every cat different, but every category is even MORE different. You'll get there Know that she might have seen or heard something - like a cat outside - that scared her/put her on alert. Or even something like a car backfiring, or a sweeper running....you never now. I think I might have mentioned it before - but remember that being skittish is what kept her alive outside, so it was a good thing because it kept her alive so that you could eventually find her and help her

 

[missasilin]

Well, today was interesting!
Beaker the fake feral is doing well- still not interested in being touched except for very occasional head scratches but hiding a lot less, coming up very close to me a lot more, playful as ever (this cat seriously loves toys). My sister and brother in law came over today and I figured she would hide, but when they came in the room to meet her she not only hid but looked just terrified, the same as (or maybe worse??) the first day I caught her. I never intended to keep Beaker- she would always need to be kept separate from my other cat which is no kind of permanent situation- but I'm worried on how I will ever find her a home if she acts feral with everyone but me. Here's a pic from right after my visitors left, haha. I sent it to them like see?? I swear she's not feral!!

 

[Sarthur2]

Bless her heart! She's comfortable and trusting with you, but terrified of "strangers".

Perhaps over time she will grow out of it.

She sounds really sweet!