Are indoor cats as happy as outdoor cats?

[jefferd18]

Thank you folks for answering my thread.

While we're at it- what in the world is this cat doing?

 

[amethyst]

I don't think you can really do a broad "all cats should be indoor or allowed outdoors" statement. It really depends on the cat, your lifestyle, and where you live. I have several cats, and some have no interest in going out at all, I can stand there with the door open and they just walk away. Those same cats however love hanging out in the catio, they will be waiting in the morning for me to let them out into the catio and pretty much spend the whole day out there until it's dark and I make them come in. On the other hand I have one cat that hates the catio, acts like it's a prison, and I have to let her outside. She goes for walks with me and the dogs around the property. I had two like that but lost one this summer, I'm 99% sure a coyote got her, but I also know that when she was inside all the time in the winter (I live in Northern Canada) that she was miserable. Yes I would likely still have her today if I hadn't let her out, but she didn't like being inside, especially when it was nice out.

If your cat is indoor only though you can't just treat it like a house plant. They require physical and metal stimulation everyday, no different then a dog. You can't just feed, water, and clean up after it and expect it to be happy.

As to the cats harming the wildlife, yes my cats do kill and eat mice and birds, but so do the weasels, foxes, coyotes, birds of prey, etc around here. I can see an issue in places that don't have native predators, like islands and similarly isolated places, but up here there are plenty of other things that prey on the same critters so I don't see it as being any different. I have noticed no change in the number of birds or small rodents since I moved here and started allowing my cats out. If anything there seemed to be an increase in birds around here.

 

[jefferd18]

but in general I agree with you that it's men fault even if cats are direct killers: after all, we introduced cats and we're the reason the un-owned cats' population is so high.
[/QUOTE]

Amen to that.

 

[jefferd18]

I don't think you can really do a broad "all cats should be indoor or allowed outdoors" statement. It really depends on the cat, your lifestyle, and where you live. I have several cats, and some have no interest in going out at all, I can stand there with the door open and they just walk away. Those same cats however love hanging out in the catio, they will be waiting in the morning for me to let them out into the catio and pretty much spend the whole day out there until it's dark and I make them come in. On the other hand I have one cat that hates the catio, acts like it's a prison, and I have to let her outside. She goes for walks with me and the dogs around the property. I had two like that but lost one this summer, I'm 99% sure a coyote got her, but I also know that when she was inside all the time in the winter (I live in Northern Canada) that she was miserable. Yes I would likely still have her today if I hadn't let her out, but she didn't like being inside, especially when it was nice out.

If your cat is indoor only though you can't just treat it like a house plant. They require physical and metal stimulation everyday, no different then a dog. You can't just feed, water, and clean up after it and expect it to be happy.

As to the cats harming the wildlife, yes my cats do kill and eat mice and birds, but so do the weasels, foxes, coyotes, birds of prey, etc around here. I can see an issue in places that don't have native predators, like islands and similarly isolated places, but up here there are plenty of other things that prey on the same critters so I don't see it as being any different. I have noticed no change in the number of birds or small rodents since I moved here and started allowing my cats out. If anything there seemed to be an increase in birds around here.

I think my great grand mother meant by the statement of treating them like a hot house plant- that we are coddling them too much and its not good for them.

I agree with you it does depend on their personality and what makes them happy. There is no way that I could have kept Jeff exclusively indoors- she would have been miserable.

I still say that will that has been created, pesticeds. high rise buildings, glass, airplanes, windmills, etc. that man still takes the top prize when it comes to killing off other species.

 

[canucksfan1]

I don't think you can really do a broad "all cats should be indoor or allowed outdoors" statement. It really depends on the cat, your lifestyle, and where you live. I have several cats, and some have no interest in going out at all, I can stand there with the door open and they just walk away. Those same cats however love hanging out in the catio, they will be waiting in the morning for me to let them out into the catio and pretty much spend the whole day out there until it's dark and I make them come in. On the other hand I have one cat that hates the catio, acts like it's a prison, and I have to let her outside. She goes for walks with me and the dogs around the property. I had two like that but lost one this summer, I'm 99% sure a coyote got her, but I also know that when she was inside all the time in the winter (I live in Northern Canada) that she was miserable. Yes I would likely still have her today if I hadn't let her out, but she didn't like being inside, especially when it was nice out.

If your cat is indoor only though you can't just treat it like a house plant. They require physical and metal stimulation everyday, no different then a dog. You can't just feed, water, and clean up after it and expect it to be happy.

As to the cats harming the wildlife, yes my cats do kill and eat mice and birds, but so do the weasels, foxes, coyotes, birds of prey, etc around here. I can see an issue in places that don't have native predators, like islands and similarly isolated places, but up here there are plenty of other things that prey on the same critters so I don't see it as being any different. I have noticed no change in the number of birds or small rodents since I moved here and started allowing my cats out. If anything there seemed to be an increase in birds around here.

if your in northern BC theres a equal chance its a hawk or golden eagle or them owls (scary tough birds)
dont lose kitties often to predators & sux when i do, condolences for your baby.
ive had to bust my cat outta the pound a few times as we had a old lady next door that had a professional pest control put up traps then walk her into the pound, she did that so much when she pretended to be owner asking to put her down they just called me to come get her.

 

[jefferd18]

ive had to bust my cat outta the pound a few times as we had a old lady next door that had a professional pest control put up traps then walk her into the pound, she did that so much when she pretended to be owner asking to put her down they just called me to come get her.

God-What a sicko!!

 

[Kieka]

"Our findings suggest that free-ranging cats cause substantially greater wildlife mortality than previously thought and are likely the single greatest source of anthropogenic mortality for US birds and mammals. "
"We estimate that free-ranging domestic cats kill 1.3–4.0 billion birds and 6.3–22.3 billion mammals annually."
The impact of free-ranging domestic cats on wildlife of the United States

Most of the damage is done by un-owned cats (two third), but in general I agree with you that it's men fault even if cats are direct killers: after all, we introduced cats and we're the reason the un-owned cats' population is so high.

That study is highly debatable. We have a thread about a similar topic Yet More Misinformation By Bird Scientists About Feral Cats but the base level is that the results are highly inflated.

 

[amethyst]

if your in northern BC theres a equal chance its a hawk or golden eagle or them owls (scary tough birds)
dont lose kitties often to predators & sux when i do, condolences for your baby.
ive had to bust my cat outta the pound a few times as we had a old lady next door that had a professional pest control put up traps then walk her into the pound, she did that so much when she pretended to be owner asking to put her down they just called me to come get her.

Northern Alberta, but close to BC and on an acreage out in the country so no real neighbors within a mile. Although there are hawks, eagles and owls around here I don't think it was a bird that got her. She vanished sometime between 10am and 1pm without me or my dogs seeing or hearing a thing. My old dog was outside the whole time and the other two dogs (all three are large breed dogs) and I were in and out of the house doing gardening that morning. She was also a large long haired cat, around 14lb and although she looked fat because of all the fluff she wasn't, so I don't think a bird of prey could have gotten her so silently. There are a lot of coyotes around here this year, I hear them everyday and see them regularly this year. There was even one that was like 10 feet from the house one morning this summer, so if the same one or similar one was laying in wait near the end of the driveway, where I found the blood, it likely snapped her up soon after I let her out that morning.

 

[fionasmom]

I don't think you can make a sweeping statement either as it depends, for me, on where you live and how safe the out of doors is. My indoor cats are all rescues from dire circumstances of one kind or another and no one wants out. I have even put my diabetic cat Stella, who cannot jump, out in the garden to enjoy herself when I am home and she makes a beeline for the door and sits there howling.

The generations of ferals I have TNRed and who have lived outside have had various fates. Several lived into old age and were put to sleep by me, but most have gone missing. The coyote population is very strong around here, actually a greater threat than cars. There are some hawks, but most are too small to lift an adult cat.

Fiona herself, in her old age, used to love to sit in the garden. Like Stella, she could not get out and only went out when I was home. A she grew older and thinner and weaker she was confronted by a larger species of hawk, but the family of crows I feed went crazy and flew to the window to alert me.

I have never sensed that any cat I owned was unhappy indoors given the comfort and diversions that I have provided for them.

 

[basscat]

We call that screaming yelling for their "door witch" (in polite company). The fun part is we have two cats doors leading into the house so the cats dont have to walk around and we still get it. I've watched them on the camera walk up to the cat door when we aren't home, stare through it, poke their head into it to make it click (we call it knocking because you can hear the click of the mechanized unlocking from two rooms away), and then step back to wait. They've even started staring at the camera as if saying "hello, lazy humans..... door...." before walking away and coming back 15 minutes later to try again.

Yep. Mine goes thru his cat door no telling how many times each day. But if somebody is that room? YEOWWWW!!!!! OPEN THE DOOR!!!

 

[Sylvia Jones]

This is an awesome thread. I have been thinking about the inside/outside question since getting my current 2 boys. They are 5 months old now. I had over a ten year period when I had no cats. However I grew up with cats and got my own once I was grown. So I have had several little loves in my life. I’m 57 now. Back in the day cats were almost always indoor and outdoor. Mine always came in at night but were allowed in and out during the day at will. Rarely did anyone leave our yard. I never even thought of keeping them strictly indoors. I lived in a small town on a sand road (Florida) where everyone knew everyone and their pets. There were very few injuries over the years. But one kitty ate a poison lizard and was gone before I could meet the local vet for a night visit. Anyway that’s just how things were then. And my cats were very happy. When I decided to get my current kittens I stumbled onto this site and love love it! Very quickly I discovered cat care norms had changed over the years. I was completely on board with keeping my new cats inside. I live in a different town and house with a backyard that it would be much easier for the cats to leave the yard and-run into trouble. While they are technically still kittens they look like cats! Since they learned to climb their cat tree when very little they have loved to look outside. I started letting them come in the back yard with me to play and they loved it. But soon the got braver and started slipping thru the picket fence to explore. This ment I had to climb the fence( an amazing site for the neighbors I’m sure) to go get them so our backyard visits have stopped. They let me know that they still want out by sitting at the back door meowing. I feel so bad ! My current plan is to get harnesses and leashes so they can come out with me. Maybe they will learn that they are only allowed inside the fence? I just feel very torn. They cannot have the freedom my other cats did because of location. But for now I am feeling like I owe them some outside time with me . I will just take it as it comes and see if it’s possible to make it work while keeping them safe. It helps to know others ponder this too! I have been feeling like a bad cat mom not being able to come to a certain solution. I love my boys so very much and they live a very pampered life. But there is no doubt going outside makes them happy. I hope this thread keeps going. I have learned so much here and have tried to contribute what my experiences are too. When you start from the place where we are all cat lovers and advocate for all of them to have the best lives possible it is a great place to be and to support each other!! Thanks any input is appreciated

 

[FeebysOwner]

Since they learned to climb their cat tree when very little they have loved to look outside. I started letting them come in the back yard with me to play and they loved it. But soon the got braver and started slipping thru the picket fence to explore. This ment I had to climb the fence( an amazing site for the neighbors I’m sure) to go get them so our backyard visits have stopped... They let me know that they still want out by sitting at the back door meowing. I feel so bad ! My current plan is to get harnesses and leashes so they can come out with me. Maybe they will learn that they are only allowed inside the fence? I just feel very torn. They cannot have the freedom my other cats did because of location. But for now I am feeling like I owe them some outside time with me . I will just take it as it comes and see if it’s possible to make it work while keeping them safe. It helps to know others ponder this too! I have been feeling like a bad cat mom not being able to come to a certain solution. I love my boys so very much and they live a very pampered life. But there is no doubt going outside makes them happy.

How about a catio? Outside time, but confined to an area where there is no need for you to climb a fence to corral them (LOL)!!! There are tons of options on the internet.

 

[CatLover49]

Are indoor cats as happy as outdoor cats? I know that outdoor cats don't live as long, and an indoor cat is safer. But I see some of my indoor cat look longlingly outdoors. Are we robbing them from living their lives to the fullest, despite the dangers?

Bill Maher said of this issue, “Married men live longer. Yes. And an indoor cat also lives longer. It's a furball with a broken spirit, that can only look out on a world it can never enjoy. But it does technically live longer.”

My great- grandmother, who just loved cats, has always worried that people were begning to treat cats like hothouse plants. I would be one of the people she complained about because I always wanted my cats to be safe, but in wanting that for them, maybe I cheated them.View attachment 306436

Sweet kitty

 

[amethyst]

How about a catio? Outside time, but confined to an area where there is no need for you to climb a fence to corral them (LOL)!!! There are tons of options on the internet.

I would definitely agree with a catio being better then an indoor only life if you live somewhere that it's possible. My indoor cats weren't unhappy before I built the small catio, but they definitely loved it (currently closed for the season). It adds enrichment to their lives that they didn't get being inside and just looking out the windows. There are various options you can do too, from simple window units to full on screened in areas of the property.

 

[CatLover49]

So, that is really a very sad and disturbing analogy, tbh. Broken spirit? Mental attitude plays as big of a part on overall health - and longevity, especially in humans - as does anything else.

If you are able to enrich cats' lives indoors, I see no reason why they aren't - actually - happier. They don't have to fend off other animals, get into fights for territory, contract a varying number of diseases, and etc., etc., etc. You know the litany of issues.

I have had a few cats - one whose first 2 years of background is unknown - who when they got out were terrified to be outside and were very happy to get back inside.

The key to a happy cat - and, a good marriage - is putting the effort in to the relationship that is required to make sure there is no broken spirit.

Bring the outdoors inside for the KITTIES

 

[Uncled]

I have been thinking about a catio, mine have never been on the ground outside. I would like to let them out, but we have foxes,coyotes, Fisher cats,not to mention owls and hawks too. I would feel terrible if they came home torn up or not at all.

 

[jefferd18]

This is an awesome thread. I have been thinking about the inside/outside question since getting my current 2 boys. They are 5 months old now. I had over a ten year period when I had no cats. However I grew up with cats and got my own once I was grown. So I have had several little loves in my life. I’m 57 now. Back in the day cats were almost always indoor and outdoor. Mine always came in at night but were allowed in and out during the day at will. Rarely did anyone leave our yard. I never even thought of keeping them strictly indoors. I lived in a small town on a sand road (Florida) where everyone knew everyone and their pets. There were very few injuries over the years. But one kitty ate a poison lizard and was gone before I could meet the local vet for a night visit. Anyway that’s just how things were then. And my cats were very happy. When I decided to get my current kittens I stumbled onto this site and love love it! Very quickly I discovered cat care norms had changed over the years. I was completely on board with keeping my new cats inside. I live in a different town and house with a backyard that it would be much easier for the cats to leave the yard and-run into trouble. While they are technically still kittens they look like cats! Since they learned to climb their cat tree when very little they have loved to look outside. I started letting them come in the back yard with me to play and they loved it. But soon the got braver and started slipping thru the picket fence to explore. This ment I had to climb the fence( an amazing site for the neighbors I’m sure) to go get them so our backyard visits have stopped. They let me know that they still want out by sitting at the back door meowing. I feel so bad ! My current plan is to get harnesses and leashes so they can come out with me. Maybe they will learn that they are only allowed inside the fence? I just feel very torn. They cannot have the freedom my other cats did because of location. But for now I am feeling like I owe them some outside time with me . I will just take it as it comes and see if it’s possible to make it work while keeping them safe. It helps to know others ponder this too! I have been feeling like a bad cat mom not being able to come to a certain solution. I love my boys so very much and they live a very pampered life. But there is no doubt going outside makes them happy. I hope this thread keeps going. I have learned so much here and have tried to contribute what my experiences are too. When you start from the place where we are all cat lovers and advocate for all of them to have the best lives possible it is a great place to be and to support each other!! Thanks any input is appreciated

Thank you,Sylvia jones, I am glad you liked my thread. I too love this site.

I think it is a dilemma for many people Coyotes and hawks are quickly moving in cities and smaller towns. My brother and sister-in-law live in the outskirts of Tucson and they won't even let their little dogs run free because of the high population of coyotes that live there. They lost a cat to coyotes and they quickly gave their other cat to a friend for fear that she would meet the same fate. Luckily my house has a large screened in front porch that helps with some of my nature loving kitties.

That's the trouble, I have yet to see anyone's cat stay within the perimeters of their yard, cats are just natural explorers.

I think harness training your two little furballs sounds like a great idea, a friend of mine is starting to leash train her kitten. There is just too much danger out there for cats, busy roads, dogs, evil people, etc...

 

[jefferd18]

I have been thinking about a catio, mine have never been on the ground outside. I would like to let them out, but we have foxes,coyotes, Fisher cats,not to mention owls and hawks too. I would feel terrible if they came home torn up or not at all.

Exactly. I live on a busy road and I do not want to come to the sight of seeing one of them on the side of the road. I had that experience with two of my dogs when I was little- never again.

 

[jefferd18]

Yep. Mine goes thru his cat door no telling how many times each day. But if somebody is that room? YEOWWWW!!!!! OPEN THE DOOR!!!

Yes, and I bet Gibs can really scream when he wants something.

 

[jefferd18]

I don't think you can make a sweeping statement either as it depends, for me, on where you live and how safe the out of doors is. My indoor cats are all rescues from dire circumstances of one kind or another and no one wants out. I have even put my diabetic cat Stella, who cannot jump, out in the garden to enjoy herself when I am home and she makes a beeline for the door and sits there howling.

The generations of ferals I have TNRed and who have lived outside have had various fates. Several lived into old age and were put to sleep by me, but most have gone missing. The coyote population is very strong around here, actually a greater threat than cars. There are some hawks, but most are too small to lift an adult cat.

Fiona herself, in her old age, used to love to sit in the garden. Like Stella, she could not get out and only went out when I was home. A she grew older and thinner and weaker she was confronted by a larger species of hawk, but the family of crows I feed went crazy and flew to the window to alert me.

I have never sensed that any cat I owned was unhappy indoors given the comfort and diversions that I have provided for them.

I agree, I don't think ferals ever really want to revisit the outdoors once they get a taste of the indoor living. I think that is because for for the first time in their lives they feel safe. And I know you give them a great life. Yes it depends on the indivdual cat, most of mine are too scared to venture out, but I also have had a few who were constantly beating down the door to get out. Jeff was the only feral cat who actually felt safer outdoors, it's like she had to have an escape plan in place.

I understand what you mean about the guessing of fate with the feral cats you have been taking care of, every time I go to feed my feral cats I always get panicky when one of them doesn't show up and during the summer the tom cat doesn't show up half of the time.

So instead of guard dogs you had guard crows. I pity the hawk that takes on a full grown cat, not just because of the cat's size but also because they have claws.