Anyone Know A Simple Prey-model Dish I Could Try Out For My Cats?

[saleri]

Hello,

So I've being poking around in the Cats Completely Raw And Proud (Cat CRAP), and while I certainly think that group is a bit odd, they've somewhat convinced me that I need to add some variation into my cats diet.

Currently I follow Dr. Pierson's chicken recipe. Which is just chicken, all the skin, bones, liver, eggs, and the supplements all grinded up.

Which works well, but that's literally all my cats ever eat. So I want to give them some chunks and other proteins with this prey model recipe.

Anyone got a recommendation?

 

[dhammagirl]

If you're in the U.S., check out Hare Today's website. I've got a cat that loves whole mice and chunks of rabbit that I get from them. They offer a large variety of meats.

 

[saleri]

If you're in the U.S., check out Hare Today's website. I've got a cat that loves whole mice and chunks of rabbit that I get from them. They offer a large variety of meats.

Yeah sadly hare today is kind of outside my budget.

 

[Willowy]

Would they eat whole mice, do you think? If so, go to a reptile store and pick up a few frozen mice, if you can stomach it. Good enrichment, and a fine balanced meal.

 

[orange&white]

You can substitute other boneless meat in Pierson's recipe for part or all of the boneless chicken. You could rotate batches made with pork, beef, rabbit, lamb or turkey as the base protein and still use the chicken bones and liver to balance.

 

[saleri]

Would they eat whole mice, do you think? If so, go to a reptile store and pick up a few frozen mice, if you can stomach it. Good enrichment, and a fine balanced meal.

I may try it out, I highly doubt it. They'll probably swatt it around and that's it. How would I get them to eat it?

 

[Willowy]

Idk, I just figure some cats know how to eat mice and some don't. Although I've heard that some people will cut the mouse open so the cat can see that there's meat inside, and if the cat is used to raw meat they should get the idea. Depends on the cat though.

 

[saleri]

You can substitute other boneless meat in Pierson's recipe for part or all of the boneless chicken. You could rotate batches made with pork, beef, rabbit, lamb or turkey as the base protein and still use the chicken bones and liver to balance.

One of the arguments I heard on that group was people telling me that if I only fed chicken, The Improper omega fatty acid ratio would be harmful and I wasn't feeding my cats a balanced diet.

Don’t just wing it: chicken-only raw diets are not balanced!


So does it really not matter what the protein is?

This is what I currently only feed my two cats.


I can just substitute out the 18.73 pounds of chicken for any other meat? It literally doesn't matter the protein?

 

[orange&white]

Factory farmed livestock are high in Omega-6 and low in Omega-3 fats. The main reason you're adding the fish oil supplement is to balance those fat ratios.

I rotate "base" meats between beef and pork. Bones and liver are chicken, as well as using chicken hearts and gizzards in every batch. Plus, I add kidney, which is pork to batches. I haven't had issues with a Frankenprey model.

Some folks are "purists" and think you need "all pork" or "all beef", etc., not mixing proteins. That's not practical to me because there is no way to grind pork or beef bones with a home grinder. You could use egg shell powder or other calcium source instead of bone, if you wanted to go that route.

I just stick with 80% boneless meat (any protein combination), 10% bone, 5% liver, and 5% other organ.

 

[saleri]

Factory farmed livestock are high in Omega-6 and low in Omega-3 fats. The main reason you're adding the fish oil supplement is to balance those fat ratios.

I rotate "base" meats between beef and pork. Bones and liver are chicken, as well as using chicken hearts and gizzards in every batch. Plus, I add kidney, which is pork to batches. I haven't had issues with a Frankenprey model.

Some folks are "purists" and think you need "all pork" or "all beef", etc., not mixing proteins. That's not practical to me because there is no way to grind pork or beef bones with a home grinder. You could use egg shell powder or other calcium source instead of bone, if you wanted to go that route.

I just stick with 80% boneless meat (any protein combination), 10% bone, 5% liver, and 5% other organ.

Okay hmm, well I guess I'll make some pork for the cats then, all chunks. So what has your experience being with beef? A bit hesitant personally to cook with it since I heard cats sometimes can be allergic.

 

[LTS3]

Independent stores often sell chubs of meat. Primal and Bravo are two brands. Sometimes I buy Oma's Pride but only the boneless organless venison and salmon as the other products contain way too much bone. Blue Ridge is also a bone-heavy with no organs brand.

 

[orange&white]

Okay hmm, well I guess I'll make some pork for the cats then, all chunks. So what has your experience being with beef? A bit hesitant personally to cook with it since I heard cats sometimes can be allergic.

None of my cats have any food intolerances. Not sure what I'll do if any of them develops and intolerance to chicken! I'll be up a creek as far as being able to afford a raw diet.

Cats can develop an allergy to any ingredient. No way to predict it. Anyway, it would be easy to stop making beef or pork mixes if any of the cats became sensitive. Chicken, not so much.

 

[sophie1]

The easiest way, if you're comfortable with it, is to buy boneless cuts of pork, beef, turkey, duck, and whatever other proteins you can find and are willing to pay for, cut them into chunks, and add them to the Pierson recipe in place of the chicken thighs that are supposed to have their bones removed. There will be variations in fat content but I don't worry about this as it should all balance out. To check if your cats can tolerate a given protein, just cut off a piece of whatever you're cooking for yourself and try them on it.

I agree that a chicken-only diet is not a good idea. Given your price constraints, the ~1/3 non-chicken plan (above) is probably the best you can do as all these other proteins are going to be more expensive than chicken.

Don't you also feed dry food? You could try to pick one that isn't chicken.

 

[orange&white]

To check if your cats can tolerate a given protein, just cut off a piece of whatever you're cooking for yourself and try them on it.

Testing a few bites of alternate protein is a good idea before committing to making a large batch. You can see if there are any tummy troubles, plus, some cats just don't like the flavor of some meats.

 

[saleri]

Independent stores often sell chubs of meat. Primal and Bravo are two brands. Sometimes I buy Oma's Pride but only the boneless organless venison and salmon as the other products contain way too much bone. Blue Ridge is also a bone-heavy with no organs brand.

Thinking of just going to the largest chinese grocery

The easiest way, if you're comfortable with it, is to buy boneless cuts of pork, beef, turkey, duck, and whatever other proteins you can find and are willing to pay for, cut them into chunks, and add them to the Pierson recipe in place of the chicken thighs that are supposed to have their bones removed. There will be variations in fat content but I don't worry about this as it should all balance out. To check if your cats can tolerate a given protein, just cut off a piece of whatever you're cooking for yourself and try them on it.

I agree that a chicken-only diet is not a good idea. Given your price constraints, the ~1/3 non-chicken plan (above) is probably the best you can do as all these other proteins are going to be more expensive than chicken.

Don't you also feed dry food? You could try to pick one that isn't chicken.

I don't really feed dry anymore. I can't imagine pork will be that much more expensive, though haven't checked the prices.

Why do you think chicken-only diet is not a good idea?

 

[saleri]

Don't want to spam this place with my questions. But what are your guy's thoughts on supplements? Obviously a lot of us follow Dr. Pierson's recipe which advocates for a good bit of supplements, but that group I mentioned above say it's shouldn't be necessary given the right combination and advocate against it?

 

[orange&white]

Thinking of just going to the largest chinese grocery


I don't really feed dry anymore. I can't imagine pork will be that much more expensive, though haven't checked the prices.

Why do you think chicken-only diet is not a good idea?

The Chinese grocer should have lots of "interesting" organ meats. I have to drive across town to the Mexican grocer to source kidney. I just go 2x per year and buy a lot to freeze.

I've been able to get pork butt on sale for $1/lb, same price a chicken. Once or twice a year, a store will run the nice lean pork loin chops at $1. Beef sales on lean round or chuck roasts are usually $3/lb. Brisket at $2/lb, but there's about 33% waste in fat trim...so that brings beef back to $3.

Wednesday is my favorite weekday. That's when the new grocery ads are online for the next week's sales. It's worth getting up early to comb through them for meat sales when you're on a tight budget.

 

[saleri]

The Chinese grocer should have lots of "interesting" organ meats. I have to drive across town to the Mexican grocer to source kidney. I just go 2x per year and buy a lot to freeze.

I've been able to get pork butt on sale for $1/lb, same price a chicken. Once or twice a year, a store will run the nice lean pork loin chops at $1. Beef sales on lean round or chuck roasts are usually $3/lb. Brisket at $2/lb, but there's about 33% waste in fat trim...so that brings beef back to $3.

Wednesday is my favorite weekday. That's when the new grocery ads are online for the next week's sales. It's worth getting up early to comb through them for meat sales when you're on a tight budget.

Yeah I'll be sure to keep an eye on sales. Though damn you must getting a ton of kidney!

 

[orange&white]

Don't want to spam this place with my questions. But what are your guy's thoughts on supplements? Obviously a lot of us follow Dr. Pierson's recipe which advocates for a good bit of supplements, but that group I mentioned above say it's shouldn't be necessary given the right combination and advocate against it?

In 2008, I was in a raw meat buying co-op. Lots of people said if you are cutting chunks of meat, not grinding it, then you don't need to supplement. That never made sense to me that there would be that much nutrient loss just from the method of preparation.

I add the supplements. Most of them are water soluble, so what the cat doesn't need gets excreted. Maybe I don't need them, because I cube all their meats, but I look at it as insurance. I calculated the costs of supplements at 7 cents per cat per day. To me that's cheap insurance against any nutrients which might be lost in processing and freeze/thaw cycles.

 

[orange&white]

Yeah I'll be sure to keep an eye on sales. Though damn you must getting a ton of kidney!

I buy around 12 lbs of kidney at a time. It's just 5% of the mix, so a little goes a long way.

I do have an extra small freezer out in the garage, about the same size as the kitchen freezer. I also have a 5 cu.ft. freezer on the patio. Helps to stock up on sales and make minimum trips across town for "other organs".