Anyone Here Feed Their Dogs Raw?

[mokapi]

Okay, so I used to feed my dog raw- a "frankenprey"/RMB model. He did awful on it. I actually think he became unhealthy. I know it's not the raw itself-- it was how I was feeding the raw. It really scared me off of it for some time; he now eats commercial raw and is doing amazing.

When I bought my first batch of grinds from MPC for Mrowmrow, I bought a "grab bag" item, which is something that's cracked, missing a lid, etc. that they sell you for like 1.50. It ended up being a coarse ground beef "super mix". Here's the ingredients:

"20% Wisen/Gullet, 20% Short Ribs, 10% Liver & Kidney, 10% Heart, 40% Lean Beef Meat (80% lean)."

Pretty good, right?

Chip devoured it. He won't eat anything else. I'm running low (and it's starting to look a little...off), so I'm considering ordering him some more.

I'm spending about 40$/month on commercial raw for him right now, so I think I can probably feed him MPC raw for around that same price.

My question is-- if you feed your dog raw-- do you think I can rotate grinds from different animals and be okay? I am not willing to go back to chunks of whole meat, bones, and organs at this time. I didn't do it well last time, and that was WITH help from a dog forum.

Do you think dogs need supplementation like cats? Honestly, it only makes sense to me that they do.

I posed these similar questions earlier today on the same dog forum I used to use, but those raw feeders are extremely biased against anything but their exact feeding model, and that's not an attitude I can handle with any long-term patience.

 

[MeganLLB]

I don't feed raw, but one of the many reasons why I don't is that there is a lot you need to consider to make sure they are getting all their essential vitamins and nutrients. Yes, they need supplementation, maybe not the same as cats, but yes they need supplements. I feed my dog dry kibble and he still requires a supplement for his specific needs.

I know of people who feed different proteins every day. Some days is beef, other days is chicken, some days lamb, so unless your dog has a problem with that, I don't see why you can't change proteins.

But again, I don't actually feed raw, so maybe another member can tell you more than I can.

 

[mokapi]

I really think they need supplementation, too...it just doesn't make sense to me why so many PMR feeders claim that dogs need NOTHING other than muscle meat/organ meat/bone. I tried following that, and like to think I followed it pretty well, and it didn't work for him.

Googling "supplement for raw food cats" will yield all kinds of results, but googling "supplement for raw food dogs" doesn't offer much. Sigh.

 

[MeganLLB]

I think you just need to talk to a vet or nutritionist to figure out how to do it correctly. I heard from a vet tech say that they have seen the number of dogs coming in quadruple because of malnutrition and/or over supplementation and it is directly linked to people incorrectly raw feeding their dogs. I have heard people say that that feed their dogs "just raw chicken" and think to myself how on earth is that a whole and complete and balanced diet? And they feed the same amount of raw as they would kibble....so many people do it wrong and that can wind up being very bad. You really do need to talk to a vet or someone who knows what they are talking about.

 

[mokapi]

If I trusted vets more, I totally would, but vets have such little education in specialized nutrition that it genuinely scares me. My last vet told me that corn is necessary for a dog's stomach to work properly. And this same vet said that cats can be vegan if "the diet is well thought-out".

I'm getting a little frustrated with the forum I'm on for dogs, because 2/3 of the people who have commented haven't actually tried to help me out-- they just say that they don't believe in feeding ground, and that I should just get a tiny chest freezer, that there's not reason dogs need supplementation (but don't have any actual scientific evidence to prove it, which drives me NUTS), and are generally being unhelpful because I flat out said I would not be approaching the diet from their established way (whole chunks/bones).

I am a person who believes that people with experience can be more knowledgeable than people with education, but I also think that you shouldn't shut someone down just because they want to go about something differently than you. Ugh.

I really want to be able to give Chip the same benefits as Mrowmrow, is all.

 

[MeganLLB]

I'm sorry you had that experience. At least on this forum there isn't a holy war going on between raw vs. kibble like there is on my Cavalier KCS Facebook group, talk about some judgmental people

I don't like getting information off the internet from random people I don't know and can't verify their credentials. I like talking to actual people especially when it comes to my pet's health. Is there some way that you could find a pet nutritionist to speak to? Like someone who specializes in this and not just a vet that practices general medicine? I too have heard some funny things when asking questions about what to feed my animals. Hence, why I joined this forum.

You know, I've seen Chewy.com say on FB many times that they have vets that will help you come up with the right recipe for your dog when they posted an ad for their raw dog food. I wonder if you could email them and just ask "What supplementation does my dog need on a raw diet?" Or something. Like FB message them. Do it before they merge with PetSmart, and maybe they migh tactually help you

 

[mokapi]

I'm sorry you had that experience. At least on this forum there isn't a holy war going on between raw vs. kibble like there is on my Cavalier KCS Facebook group, talk about some judgmental people

I don't like getting information off the internet from random people I don't know and can't verify their credentials. I like talking to actual people especially when it comes to my pet's health. Is there some way that you could find a pet nutritionist to speak to? Like someone who specializes in this and not just a vet that practices general medicine? I too have heard some funny things when asking questions about what to feed my animals. Hence, why I joined this forum.

You know, I've seen Chewy.com say on FB many times that they have vets that will help you come up with the right recipe for your dog when they posted an ad for their raw dog food. I wonder if you could email them and just ask "What supplementation does my dog need on a raw diet?" Or something. Like FB message them. Do it before they merge with PetSmart, and maybe they migh tactually help you

The kibble vs. raw battle is unending. And frustrating. Because, honestly, I've known cats that are in their mid-20s, who were fed a steady diet of Friskies kibble their entire lives. And they seem to be fine. On the other hand, there are cats like mine whose system can't handle kibble. Every animal is different. Feed what keeps your animal healthy, y'know?

E-mailing Chewy is a great idea. I'm going to do that now...I'll report back with what I'm told

 

[mokapi]

I did a Live Chat with a Chewy rep- they sent me towards a supplement by The Missing Link, and one by Nupro. I'll look into them both later.

Update from the dog forum: cats do not need supplementation for raw diets, either.

 

[MeganLLB]

Update from the dog forum: cats do not need supplementation for raw diets, either.

Well....Ok then.

I have heard of Missing Link. My sister got that for the cat when she was shedding really bad and it helped. I don't know what she got though. I'm glad Chewy was helpful. That's at least something.

 

[LTS3]

The Missing Link isn't for raw diet supplementation. It's just a general dietary supplement to regular commerical dry and canned foods. It does not contain any essential vitamins and minerals that may be lacking in a raw diet.

For raw diets that is just ground up meat you need a pre-mix supplement. For cats, popular ones include EZComplete, Alnutrin, and TCFeline. Better In The Raw has a product just for dogs.

Update from the dog forum: cats do not need supplementation for raw diets, either.

The dog forum members probably meant well but cat do need supplementation in raw diets unless you are doing whole prey or frankenprey or are feeding a commerical raw diet that is compete. There's a forum here on TCS that has more info on raw diets and how to supplement.

Have you seen this for raw diets in dogs?

Feeding Raw - Where to Start?
Raw Feeders: Please post typical weekly menu

 

[mokapi]

I might look into that Better in the Raw formula!!

I'm back to feeling so frustrated. Chip is refusing the pork I got him (trying to rotate); he only wants beef. He's eaten hardly anything over the last 48 hours...just some tripe. I can't keep wasting money on this raw food, and I can't afford an all wet-food diet. I really can't go buy another thing of beef, AND he can't only stay on beef, anyway. He dislikes kibble. He's started turning his nose up at even frozen raw diets.

I'm not sure what to do.

 

[MeganLLB]

I might look into that Better in the Raw formula!!

I'm back to feeling so frustrated. Chip is refusing the pork I got him (trying to rotate); he only wants beef. He's eaten hardly anything over the last 48 hours...just some tripe. I can't keep wasting money on this raw food, and I can't afford an all wet-food diet. I really can't go buy another thing of beef, AND he can't only stay on beef, anyway. He dislikes kibble. He's started turning his nose up at even frozen raw diets.

I'm not sure what to do.

A dog wont starve himself. Pick a food and give him 20 mins to eat it. If he doesn't eat it pick it up and try again a few hours later for 20 mins. If he refuses, keep trying even if he eats nothing for 2 or 3 days. Eventually after a few days he will realize that this 20 mins is when I get my food and I'd better eat it because im not getting anything else.

 

[goingpostal]

Most raw feeders of dogs don't supplement other than fish oil. You'd probably be better off with an AAFCO approved pre-made although it would be quite expensive. I feed prey model to my cat, ferrets and dogs and have been for 6+ years and don't supplement, I do feed a lot of variety, whole prey and hunted meat however.