Anybody else have a bad new moon?

vince

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The new moon was yesterday. I was wondering what had gotten into the cats. The little one was climbing all over everything. I found her on a towel rod in the bathroom, even standing on top of a lampshade! They had the worst zoomies they'd ever had. Rugs all piled up in the corners, running all over, knocking stuff over, beating one another up and crying all the time.

I know the "experts" say the antics that happen on a new moon are just hooey, but my experiences tell me otherwise.

Did any of you have the same experience?
 

Azazel

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Mine are crazy all the time, no new levels of craziness here.
 

Caspers Human

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Let's think about something for a moment...

The earth is 12,742 km in diameter. (7,900 mi.)
The moon's gravity can pull on the oceans and cause tides to rise and fall by an average of 3 m, worldwide. (10 ft.)
The average human is 1.75 m tall. (5 ft. - 9 in.)

If the moon's gravity affects the ocean by such a small amount, over the whole earth, how much would the moon's gravity affect a human who is only 5 feet tall?

You don't even have to do the math to understand that the moon's effect on a human would be very, very small. It would be so small that it would be impossible to measure, even with the best instruments in the world.

So... Logically, the moon's gravity can not have any measurable effect on a human.

But... I'm not done yet!

We know that cat's are nocturnal hunters... the hunt at night.
It is logical to think that cats would have an advantage, capturing their prey, when the moon is full, shining more light on the earth, making it easier for them to see.

The opposite would be true on the new moon. There would be less light, making it harder for cats to hunt at night.

It is a known fact that animals like deer and rabbits are more active on nights when the moon is dark versus on a bright, full moon when it's lighter. The instinctively know that they are more vulnerable when it's bright out.

If cats are nocturnal hunters and their prey are more or less active, depending on how bright the moon is, it's not a stretch to imagine that a house cat could be more or less active and playful, depending on the moon.

Even though the moon doesn't CAUSE cats to be more active, it does create conditions under which cats are more likely to be more active.

I can't say the same for humans, though.

Most humans that I have known don't need the moon to make them act stupid!
They usually act stupid on their own! ;) ;) ;)
 

Azazel

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Let's think about something for a moment...

The earth is 12,742 km in diameter. (7,900 mi.)
The moon's gravity can pull on the oceans and cause tides to rise and fall by an average of 3 m, worldwide. (10 ft.)
The average human is 1.75 m tall. (5 ft. - 9 in.)

If the moon's gravity affects the ocean by such a small amount, over the whole earth, how much would the moon's gravity affect a human who is only 5 feet tall?

You don't even have to do the math to understand that the moon's effect on a human would be very, very small. It would be so small that it would be impossible to measure, even with the best instruments in the world.

So... Logically, the moon's gravity can not have any measurable effect on a human.

But... I'm not done yet!

We know that cat's are nocturnal hunters... the hunt at night.
It is logical to think that cats would have an advantage, capturing their prey, when the moon is full, shining more light on the earth, making it easier for them to see.

The opposite would be true on the new moon. There would be less light, making it harder for cats to hunt at night.

It is a known fact that animals like deer and rabbits are more active on nights when the moon is dark versus on a bright, full moon when it's lighter. The instinctively know that they are more vulnerable when it's bright out.

If cats are nocturnal hunters and their prey are more or less active, depending on how bright the moon is, it's not a stretch to imagine that a house cat could be more or less active and playful, depending on the moon.

Even though the moon doesn't CAUSE cats to be more active, it does create conditions under which cats are more likely to be more active.

I can't say the same for humans, though.

Most humans that I have known don't need the moon to make them act stupid!
They usually act stupid on their own! ;) ;) ;)
Don’t cats see better in the dark?
 

FeebysOwner

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Aside from all of the 'scientific' information, when Feeby was younger she did spend much more time outside on the patio at night when there was a full moon. She seemed 'friskier' as well, usually starting the day before a full moon. Now that she is over 15yo, that has all pretty much subsided. Guess it takes too much energy now :rolleyes2:!
 

Coolgram

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The new moon was yesterday. I was wondering what had gotten into the cats. The little one was climbing all over everything. I found her on a towel rod in the bathroom, even standing on top of a lampshade! They had the worst zoomies they'd ever had. Rugs all piled up in the corners, running all over, knocking stuff over, beating one another up and crying all the time.

I know the "experts" say the antics that happen on a new moon are just hooey, but my experiences tell me otherwise.

Did any of you have the same experience?
I'm pretty sure I've noticed it in Gracie, although she is very active and has the zoomies most days anyway. But I think she's even more hyper during a full moon. I see the full moon was 2 days ago and she's really zooming today, hopping sideways, the whole bit so I don't know if the affect (if there is one) would last that long. But, I took my Christmas tree down today and I think she's upset that it's gone, she really enjoyed pulling things off of it and hiding under the tree skirt! Cats are hard to figure out sometimes.
 

Caspers Human

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Don’t cats see better in the dark?
I don't understand what you're saying.

Do you mean to say that cats see better in low light than they do in bright conditions? No, I don't think that's true. It doesn't make logical sense unless there is more information about how cats' vision works that we don't know.

Cats have a layer of tissue inside their eyes called tapetum lucidum which reflects light onto the retina in order to help them see better in the dark. That doesn't necessarily mean that they can see in the dark better than they can in the daylight.

Occam's Razor: "Entities should not be multiplied without necessity." (The simplest answer is usually the best answer.)

We don't need to invent some imaginary, magical power from the moon that causes cats to behave differently when it's plainly simple to observe that it's brighter outside when there is a full moon. That's a good and logical, common sense reason why cats might behave differently that doesn't need any hocus pocus to make it happen.
 

Azazel

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I don't understand what you're saying.

Do you mean to say that cats see better in low light than they do in bright conditions? No, I don't think that's true. It doesn't make logical sense unless there is more information about how cats' vision works that we don't know.

Cats have a layer of tissue inside their eyes called tapetum lucidum which reflects light onto the retina in order to help them see better in the dark. That doesn't necessarily mean that they can see in the dark better than they can in the daylight.

Occam's Razor: "Entities should not be multiplied without necessity." (The simplest answer is usually the best answer.)

We don't need to invent some imaginary, magical power from the moon that causes cats to behave differently when it's plainly simple to observe that it's brighter outside when there is a full moon. That's a good and logical, common sense reason why cats might behave differently that doesn't need any hocus pocus to make it happen.
I wasn’t inventing a magical reason, I appreciate you trying to rationalize. But I also don’t have a problem with people believing in metaphysical things that science can’t explain. I don’t really believe in anything pertaining to this topic either way. My cats act no different.

This still doesn’t explain why an indoor cat would act more hyper during a full moon though.
 

Caspers Human

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Two different subjects of communication:
1) I don't understand why cats might see better in the dark than in the light but I understand why they have better night vision.
2) We don't have to believe that the moon is magic when there is a logical explanation for changes in cats' behavior.

Even an indoor cat could be affected by brighter conditions outdoors if it can see out through the windows.

You would have to seal your windows with plywood and seal the cracks to prevent any light from getting in to be certain that outdoor light isn't affecting a cat indoors.
 

Azazel

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Two different subjects of communication:
1) I don't understand why cats might see better in the dark than in the light but I understand why they have better night vision.
2) We don't have to believe that the moon is magic when there is a logical explanation for changes in cats' behavior.

Even an indoor cat could be affected by brighter conditions outdoors if it can see out through the windows.

You would have to seal your windows with plywood and seal the cracks to prevent any light from getting in to be certain that outdoor light isn't affecting a cat indoors.
You have proposed one explanation. There are possibly others. You haven’t provided any empirical evidence to back up your theory so it’s perfectly fine for people to continue to speculate and it’s also fine if some people believe in alternative metaphysical explanations.

Your explanation seems to rely not only on it being brighter but also on cats needing to hunt and prey being around for them to see. An indoor cat with no need to hunt and no prey around shouldn’t be affected, even if it’s brighter inside. Humans often stay up late with the lights on. Doesn’t really make their cats more hyper.
 

Azazel

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The other thing to consider is that cats are not just predators, they are also prey. So brighter conditions should also make them more cautious to not get spotted by prey. I just think your explanation is too simplistic.
 

Caspers Human

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Only one reasonable explanation is needed in order to rule out all possible magical explanations. If there is one tangible concept that explains a phenomenon, no magic is needed.

Yes, cats can take the role of predator or prey, interchangeably and simultaneously. That does not rule out the reason why cats would be more active when the moon is full. In fact, that is another reason to prove it. It could be a good reason why cats act even crazier. Having to fulfill a dual role as predator and prey, they could be feeling conflict between two competing instincts.

Just because I posted lots of large numbers talking about how big the earth is, that's no reason for people's eyes to glaze over. Just because I used kilometers, that's no reason for people to dismiss logic as "scientific."
The reader can simply see that those numbers indicate that the earth is really, really big and that humans are small, by comparison. It is easy to see that the moon can not have any direct effect on humans or cats. The moon reflects light onto the earth and that can cause indirect effects but the moon, in and of itself, does not have any magical powers.
 

Azazel

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Only one reasonable explanation is needed in order to rule out all possible magical explanations. If there is one tangible concept that explains a phenomenon, no magic is needed.
A reasonable explanation does not equate with the correct explanation. You have no proof of your explanation being correct and there's no reason why others can't continue to speculate. Your explanation is also very simplistic and based on a lot of assumptions about cat instincts, hunting behavior, etc.
Just because I posted lots of large numbers talking about how big the earth is, that's no reason for people's eyes to glaze over. Just because I used kilometers, that's no reason for people to dismiss logic as "scientific."
The reader can simply see that those numbers indicate that the earth is really, really big and that humans are small, by comparison. It is easy to see that the moon can not have any direct effect on humans or cats. The moon reflects light onto the earth and that can cause indirect effects but the moon, in and of itself, does not have any magical powers.
I don't think you realize how condescending you sound. I simply asked whether cats see better in the dark than in the light and you assumed I was favoring "magical" explanations or too stupid to understand your "logic." I then questioned whether your explanation is the correct one and you assume that I'm scared of the numbers that you're posting.

I think the OP was trying to make a fun thread about whether cats act strange during full moons. Your attempt at a scientific explanation is appreciated, but doesn't rule out any other form of explanation - and no, just because others might be open to other explanations dosen't mean we're scared of your numbers.
 

Caspers Human

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This is hard for me because I thought I was trying to be supportive of the topic, not condescending of it.

I thought that I was saying, "No, the moon does not have any supernatural power over the earth but there could be good reasons why it seems that way."

I thought that I gave clear explanations why I believe that to be true.

I tried, very hard, to use well-reasoned, simple explanations, laid out in a way that is easy to understand but I feel frustrated when people dismiss it as being too difficult to understand. I even left out the math, on purpose. I simply said that the earth is really, really big and that people are really small. To me it is easy to see that the moon's effect on a person would be infinitesimal.

It confuses me when people dismiss simple explanations as "scientific" and then claim that I am the bad guy, simply on the grounds that I proposed a contradictory theory.

It is confusing to me why people seem to think I am saying the opposite of what I believe I am saying.

Just to be clear, I'll say it again:
The moon does not have any supernatural power over the earth but there could be good reasons why it seems that way.

This statement is meant to be taken in support of the observation that many cats seem to act crazy when the moon is full.
 

Azazel

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This is hard for me because I thought I was trying to be supportive of the topic, not condescending of it.

I thought that I was saying, "No, the moon does not have any supernatural power over the earth but there could be good reasons why it seems that way."

I thought that I gave clear explanations why I believe that to be true.

I tried, very hard, to use well-reasoned, simple explanations, laid out in a way that is easy to understand but I feel frustrated when people dismiss it as being too difficult to understand. I even left out the math, on purpose. I simply said that the earth is really, really big and that people are really small. To me it is easy to see that the moon's effect on a person would be infinitesimal.

It confuses me when people dismiss simple explanations as "scientific" and then claim that I am the bad guy, simply on the grounds that I proposed a contradictory theory.

It is confusing to me why people seem to think I am saying the opposite of what I believe I am saying.

Just to be clear, I'll say it again:
The moon does not have any supernatural power over the earth but there could be good reasons why it seems that way.

This statement is meant to be taken in support of the observation that many cats seem to act crazy when the moon is full.
No one thinks you’re a bad guy. Some people might want to believe that the moon has supernatural powers. Since you can’t prove empirically whether it does or it doesn’t, some people may still believe that it does, and that’s their choice.
 

JamesCalifornia

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~ Where I live ( Los Angeles ) I worry about people - not cats. Full moons are notorious at emergency rooms everywhere. Kind of spooky when you think about it. ..:cold:
 

Caspers Human

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Therein lies the crux of the problem.

Yes, I have shown that the moon can not have supernatural powers.

If the earth is so big but the moon's effect on the earth is so small (a few meters of tidal varation over a planet that is 12,700 kilometers in diameter) if you scale that down to human size, any change in a human body that the earth might cause would be so small that the most accurate instruments in the world could not detect it.

Any person with average intelligence should be able to understand that.

So, then, the question to follow such a line of reasoning would likely be, "If the moon can't have a direct effect on humans (or cats) why do I still observe certain phenomenon when the moon is full?"

I provided an explanation for why we might observe cats acting crazy when the moon is full.

At that point, I hoped that other people might provide alternate explanations.
One possible explanation could be that circadian rhythms are affected by light and that the moon's light might affect your cat's circadian rhythm, causing her to be more active.

Maybe there could be other explanations. I don't know. I'd like to hear them.

I like to think about different explanations for things that happen and try to find out which explanations could be true.
 

Azazel

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Therein lies the crux of the problem.

Yes, I have shown that the moon can not have supernatural powers.

If the earth is so big but the moon's effect on the earth is so small (a few meters of tidal varation over a planet that is 12,700 kilometers in diameter) if you scale that down to human size, any change in a human body that the earth might cause would be so small that the most accurate instruments in the world could not detect it.

Any person with average intelligence should be able to understand that.

So, then, the question to follow such a line of reasoning would likely be, "If the moon can't have a direct effect on humans (or cats) why do I still observe certain phenomenon when the moon is full?"

I provided an explanation for why we might observe cats acting crazy when the moon is full.

At that point, I hoped that other people might provide alternate explanations.
One possible explanation could be that circadian rhythms are affected by light and that the moon's light might affect your cat's circadian rhythm, causing her to be more active.

Maybe there could be other explanations. I don't know. I'd like to hear them.

I like to think about different explanations for things that happen and try to find out which explanations could be true.
Okay, you win. :frustrated:
 

mani

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We may like to keep in mind that some subscribe to words of the Bard:

There are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy


and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

V vince started this thread for us to share our experiences of full moons and cats. Let's just enjoy that sharing.
 
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