Any Ideas?

[Kokomo]

I wanted to get people's thoughts on my boy. He is still getting his molars, and working on all his adult teeth, so at best guess he is around 4-6 months. He is already just over 11 pounds, and doesn't seem to be slowing down in the growth department. He has rather over-sized ears and paws, with a slightly shorter than average tail. He is quite the talker, squeaks a lot, and is the sweetest, most laid back cat I have ever known. He adores my almost two year old niece and nephew, and isn't really phased by anything. I am waiting to see just how big he gets, right now I am thinking he is on track to get close to my 24 pound Maine Coon, but we will see.

Any thoughts on what breeds could be contributing to his size and ears?

This was a month ago when he was still shedding out his kitten coat.

 

[abyeb]

Is that the same cat in the second picture? He looks almost like a Bengal in that one! I guess the lighting makes him look more cinnamon-y than red. I think some Bengal influence is possible, with his pattern and athletic build, that would certainly contribute to his size. Without papers, though, he would be called a red tabby (in the classic aka bullseye pattern) Domestic Shorthair. Very striking pattern!

 

[Alejandra Rico]

Is that the same cat in the second picture? He looks almost like a Bengal in that one! I guess the lighting makes him look more cinnamon-y than red. I think some Bengal influence is possible, with his pattern and athletic build, that would certainly contribute to his size. Without papers, though, he would be called a red tabby (in the classic aka bullseye pattern) Domestic Shorthair. Very striking pattern!

Yeah, I was just thinking the same, he totally rocks a bengal look in that standing on his feet picture. It looks like his marble pattern is opening up, so he may end being a tricolor marble, which is totally bengal. Paw color is not right, as he should have black paws, and his tail should be ringed, but, still, a pretty nice look-alike if not an actual Bengal mix.
Please, update any progress in his marbling! And if you could ley us know exactly which color is him, that would be great.
You can look for some other clues for bengal traits (lack of an undercoat, extremelly silky fur, glitter, etc).
abyeb , I think you are more up to date in genetics related to point than I am (I took a look at snow bengals genética, but since I am planning on breeding brown and silver, I was not so focused on that). Do you think this can be a result of any of the snows combo? Just saying this because in one of the pics he almost looks sepia

 

[abyeb]

abyeb , I think you are more up to date in genetics related to point than I am (I took a look at snow bengals genética, but since I am planning on breeding brown and silver, I was not so focused on that). Do you think this can be a result of any of the snows combo? Just saying this because in one of the pics he almost looks sepia

Maybe like a mix with a Seal Sepia Snow Bengal?

 

[Alejandra Rico]

Maybe like a mix with a Seal Sepia Snow Bengal?

Yeah! That is what I was thinking. Now I Will have to do some research about this, because my curiosity is quite Big now. I hope I bookmarked the webpage showing cinnamon and red bengals, It would be a nice starting point.

 

[Purr-fect]

A very handsome young man.

 

[Kokomo]

Thank you all for your replies! He has changed tone and color quite a bit over the last couple months. Depending on the lighting he can also look very different. When I first got him, he was a rescue so no idea on background, he was shedding like crazy. He went from having very clear markings to looking very muted, and now he is starting to change so his markings are sharper and darker again. Here are some pics I just grabbed on my cell, unedited, and in two different lights.

 

[Alejandra Rico]

All bengals go through a terrible fuzzy fase which makes their markings very unclear. It can last until they are 7 months old, but some others overcome it faster. Marble coats in bngals can take up to 2 years to fully develop, as they open up, so you can check his pattern every 2 months or so with pictures of the same side of your cat to compare. He looks quite symmetrical to me, which a bengal shouldn't, but as he is a mix, I wouldn't consider this as a difinitive trait against our bengal hypothesis.
I recommend you to do some research on the breed so that you know what to expect as he grows up.
Is he already able to open doors?

 

[Kokomo]

All bengals go through a terrible fuzzy fase which makes their markings very unclear. It can last until they are 7 months old, but some others overcome it faster. Marble coats in bngals can take up to 2 years to fully develop, as they open up, so you can check his pattern every 2 months or so with pictures of the same side of your cat to compare. He looks quite symmetrical to me, which a bengal shouldn't, but as he is a mix, I wouldn't consider this as a difinitive trait against our bengal hypothesis.
I recommend you to do some research on the breed so that you know what to expect as he grows up.
Is he already able to open doors?

He has definitely changed a lot since I got him. When I first got him he didn't really have any of the same marbling/spots he is getting now. The large 3/m/E/w on his left side has shown up and gotten distinct in the last couple weeks. These are pics of him the first day I had him. His sides don't quite match, but they have the same overall theme if that makes any sense. haha

That is cool they can take so long to fully develop! I will watch and see how he changes. He is super smart, and recently learned how to activate one of my niece and nephew's music toys, so will hit the button, sit there and watch it, and then hit the button again when it is done.

I will do some research on the breed. My family has two Maine Coons, and I grew up with a Bobcat hybrid, so I am used to large cats with equally large personalities. This little/big guy was actually supposed to be a rehome, but I fell in love with him, so he now has a forever home with me.

 

[Alejandra Rico]

He has definitely changed a lot since I got him. When I first got him he didn't really have any of the same marbling/spots he is getting now. The large 3/m/E/w on his left side has shown up and gotten distinct in the last couple weeks. These are pics of him the first day I had him. His sides don't quite match, but they have the same overall theme if that makes any sense. haha

That is cool they can take so long to fully develop! I will watch and see how he changes. He is super smart, and recently learned how to activate one of my niece and nephew's music toys, so will hit the button, sit there and watch it, and then hit the button again when it is done.

I will do some research on the breed. My family has two Maine Coons, and I grew up with a Bobcat hybrid, so I am used to large cats with equally large personalities. This little/big guy was actually supposed to be a rehome, but I fell in love with him, so he now has a forever home with me.

That sounds as he is quite smart. My bengal X Alice was able to open doors and she learnt to switch lights on, among some other brilliant ideas of her. She used to steal and hide objects too, which was somehow unconvenient.
What you say about his pattern development does really sound bengal. He is showing longer hair than I would expect (well, actually not "long" but not as close to his body as a purebreed or some other bengal X I've seen), so the final result may be rather interesting.

 

[Kokomo]

That sounds as he is quite smart. My bengal X Alice was able to open doors and she learnt to switch lights on, among some other brilliant ideas of her. She used to steal and hide objects too, which was somehow unconvenient.
What you say about his pattern development does really sound bengal. He is showing longer hair than I would expect (well, actually not "long" but not as close to his body as a purebreed or some other bengal X I've seen), so the final result may be rather interesting.

Yours sounds like a blast! So far Kokomo hasn't taken to stealing things, but he definitely seems to be a smart cat. One of his favorite things to do, and one of my least favorite about him, is instead of catching/killing mice he likes to play with them, and sadly he seems to have found some that also like playing with him. So at dusk he goes and sits by the front storm door waiting for the mice to come up on the step and play through the door. He heads there every evening about the same time to wait for them. While he is busy making friends I am busy trying to remove his friends.

I have looked at some Bengal pictures online, and I can see some similarities. He doesn't seem to have the "glitter" that I have seen people talking about with Bengals. He does change color in different light though, so maybe the glitter is a later in life thing? I am not exactly a cat expert, so not sure when the coat stops changing texture and stuff as they grow. When I first got him he was shedding more that any cat I have every been around. Thankfully he loves being brushed, so getting several handfuls from him every day was an easy task. He still loves being brushed, but he seems to be shedding closer to what I would expect from a mostly shorthaired cat at this point.

Right now he is still pretty lean as far as his body goes, but he is trying to eat me out of house and home! He eats so much! I am keeping a close eye on him so once the growth slows down I can control his food so he doesn't develop too much fat. But he is very muscular already, and super long! And does seem to have the longer back legs that I saw mentioned for Bengals. He also has super pronounced shoulder blades. Watching him walk and stalk things sometimes reminds me of a tiger. lol

 

[Alejandra Rico]

I didn't expect him him to like mice that way xD
I don't know about glitter development, I picked Freya when she was just 10 weeks old (mother of the breeder fell really ill and had to be hospitalized, so breeder asked me if I could take her sooner because she would not be able to stay at home enough as to take care of them as she would want) and she already had tons of glitter. It is more obvious in sunlight, though, and you have to know what you ar looking for to notice it. Because the colour of your cat is not golden, but cinnamon/copper, you may want to look for copper like glitter, which may not be so obvious.
Look at these pictures so you can have an idea of they way it looks. It is subtle but noticiable at the same time.
Freya is the golden one, showing glitter in her brow; and Alice was probably a tarnished silver or a really cool toned brown, so their glitters look different. Silvers have iridescent glitter, which shows several colors atbhe same time, It is fascinating.

 

[Kokomo]

Alejandra Rico they are so pretty! I will have to look at him in the sunlight today and see if I can see any. I did see that Bengals are supposed to love water, so I am will have to investigate that. He does love to spend hours staring at my fish, and pawing at the glass, so he at least enjoys that haha

 

[katma]

Even if he turns out to be "just" an auburn tabby, he is a beautiful big boy! Don't Maine Coons come in auburn tabby patterns? His paw looks huge in your hand. he sounds like a wonderful "keeper" with such a sweet personality.

 

[Kokomo]

Even if he turns out to be "just" an auburn tabby, he is a beautiful big boy! Don't Maine Coons come in auburn tabby patterns? His paw looks huge in your hand. he sounds like a wonderful "keeper" with such a sweet personality.

Thanks! He is an absolute love! Yes, color wise he could be a Maine Coon I am pretty sure, but that and size is where I am thinking that ends. His paws are huge! They are roughly the same size as my 24 pound male Maine Coons paws...so between that and his overall size and growth rate I suspect he will end up a big boy. I just fell in love with his personality, he is so sweet and smart and loving.

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

Even if he turns out to be "just" an auburn tabby, he is a beautiful big boy! Don't Maine Coons come in auburn tabby patterns? His paw looks huge in your hand. he sounds like a wonderful "keeper" with such a sweet personality.

At risk of putting too fine a point on it (though this particular forum is intended for finer points), the Tabby coat is seen in Brown, Blue (and Silver), Red (and Golden, previously called, "Marmalade"), Cream, Chocolate, Lilac, Cinnamon, Fawn, the three Caramels (Double Dilutions) and Apricot (a Double Dilution plus the Caramelising Modifier, i.e. Dm), plus two breed-specific coats found in Norwegian Forest Cats: Amber (for NFC Tabbies born black) and Light or Dilute Amber (seen in NFC Tabbies born Blue), these last the product of the Reduction Allele.

"Auburn," as a colour descriptor, is used only (as far as I'm aware) in the breed description of Turkish Vans.
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[Kokomo]

At risk of putting too fine a point on it (though this particular forum is intended for finer points), the Tabby coat is seen in Brown, Blue (and Silver), Red (and Golden, previously called, "Marmalade"), Cream, Chocolate, Lilac, Cinnamon, Fawn, the three Caramels (Double Dilutions) and Apricot (a Double Dilution plus the Caramelising Modifier, i.e. Dm), plus two breed-specific coats found in Norwegian Forest Cats: Amber (for NFC Tabbies born black) and Light or Dilute Amber (seen in NFC Tabbies born Blue), these last the product of the Reduction Allele.

"Auburn," as a colour descriptor, is used only (as far as I'm aware) in the breed description of Turkish Vans.
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I love learning new things! And I find colors in animals fascinating! I have a horse whose phenotype does not match his genotype, and I love it! So for Kokomo, whatever breeds are mixed up in there to make him what he is, he would just be a red tabby, yes?

 

[katma]

Ahh. Now I know ...
I have a beautiful Red Tabby. His darker hair looks auburn (human-style) to me, thus my misnomer.

 

[Kokomo]

So I have been reading more on Bengals, and Kokomo has pink paw pads, so he has that going against the Bengal theory, but I am going to look for glitter when I get home from work today. My current question is about symmetrical patterns v. asymmetrical. To me Kokomo's pattern is not identical on both sides, but seems to follow the same overall idea. So, would he be considered symmetrical or asymmetrical? Thank you!

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

I love learning new things! And I find colors in animals fascinating! I have a horse whose phenotype does not match his genotype, and I love it! So for Kokomo, whatever breeds are mixed up in there to make him what he is, he would just be a red tabby, yes?

If he were, in fact, simply a Domestic Cat, then yes. I've withheld my thoughts here because both abyeb and Alejandra Rico have a formidable wealth of experience with certain breeds (Alejandra as a breeder, and Abyeb as a keen observer and aficionada of New Breeds, and especially Bengals) [aside: I'm surprised that @stefanz has not yet weight in on this thread, though perhaps for similar reasons], and in having spoken to two breeders who are "experimenting" with the newer Bengal colours (specifically Chocolate and Cinnamon), I believe that there's pretty fair visual evidence of Bengal bloodlines - and very possibly breeder (i.e. by intent, rather than by accident) bloodlines in the New Colours arena.

Chocolates are still very new, and they're incredibly striking cats, whether Marbled or not. Make a comparison of this Chocolate:

http://www.asuracats.co.uk/wp-conte...late-Bengal.-Photo-courtesy-of-Lori-Symes.jpg

and imagine a similar cat in recent heritage - perhaps back-crossed with another Bengal or with a Tabby, with the intent of manipulating the pattern. In light of the conversation above, and given what I've heard from two breeders, I'd be somewhat surprised to learn that he was, "just a red tabby," though it would require DNA examination to confirm otherwise. That aside, there's no denying the unanimous opinion that he's incredibly striking and that he wants to come to live in Olcott Beach.
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