Ants and mice...UGH!

[Jem]

1) So, We've been seeing increasing amounts of ants in the house, random areas, and usually only one every other day. BUT they are carpenter ants, so of course I'm freaking out a bit. I will say that I didn't think I had an infestation IN the house BUT, now that it's winter, I shouldn't be seeing them anymore right? They are not appearing as often now (only a few over the last month or so, and only when the temp outside goes up), but I'm still concerned. We also live in a sandy area, so we have ants everywhere outside in the warmer months. We also had a carpenter ant infestation in the roof of our shed that we replaced two years ago, which coincidentally is when they started appearing in the house. We also have a dead tree trunk that I think is now the home of the displaced nest. I do know they will travel pretty far. I did find a nest outside last year and when I treated it (killed it) the amount of ants in the house drastically reduced for that year, but this past summer they came back. I also know that they can have satellite colonies, so I may have only killed one of their nests. I know I have some investigating to do in the spring, but I wanted to know if there is anything I can put in my home that is safe for cats, in case they are trying to nest in the house. Also is there a safe product that I can distribute around my WHOLE yard in the spring to cut down (at least a bit) on the amount of ants we get. As I said, we live in an area that is very favorable to ants, but it's getting ridiculous. You should see my yard in August, when the flying ants come out, the whole yard is moving as they crawl their way to the surface and start flying.
I'm terrified that I'll have to rip down drywall just to try and find where they are coming in. I don't have the money for renovations right now. So if there is something I can apply, under by baseboards for example, that will help I would love some input.

2) We also usually get one or two mice in the house a year for the past few years, why they are dumb enough to come in with cats in the house IDK...But I went investigating because I was going around trying to see if I could find where the mice or ants may be getting in from. Well, I came across some mouse poop. and a little borough, that contained sawdust and insulation in an unfinished area where some water pipes come into the home.. Perhaps the ants are using the same entry point as the mouse? Anyway, I'll be doing a thorough investigation and cleaning of all the nooks and crannies of my house that I can reach but also wanted to know what products (spray foam?) can help seal up any areas that I find that might be contributing to my problem.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Hi. I use Ortho Home Defense around the inside perimeter of the outside walls of my house. I only have one cat - that's older and doesn't move about much - to deal with, but she has never had an adverse reaction to it. You could spray rooms where the cats are not, and then do the other rooms by removing the cats from those areas, as a precaution. I only use it once a year - sometimes two - and see very little bug activity in my home.

I, too, have carpenter ants in varying places outside. I spray Bayer Complete Insect Killer on the yard and around the outside of the home for general protection - maybe 2 or 3 times a year. However, I do have to do a more concentrated spray on the carpenter ants when I find them, and even then if I get a nest they just move it to another location. That is a constant battle that I am guessing will never end. In my area, those ants are more inclined to come in during colder or very wet conditions.

No flying ants, and I live in a concrete block home, so those things might make a difference.

I don't have mice, but could you place rodent killer baits in those areas around the unfinished area where some water pipes come into the home - assuming your cats don't frequent the area? Obviously, as you know, that area needs to be finished off to stop access. Not sure about the caulking/sealant, as that would depend on where you find spots that are compromised and what kind of material is involved.

 

[Kflowers]

Many cats are happy to chase and kill mice. That is why poisoning the mice is dangerous. Be very careful where you place the mouse poison. I've known two cats who died from eating poisoned mice. By the time the owners realized what happened it was too late to help them. Two different kinds of poison, one was the sort that prevents blood clotting. There is a chance with that sort that the vet can save your cat if you get to the vet fast enough. the other was some sort of poison like arsenic. It's not a good death.

I have heard that mice are repelled by the scent of peppermint and that soaking cotton balls in peppermint scent and stuffing them into the holes mice use will repel them. I don't know if this works or not. If you use essential oil for this, be aware that some cats really like peppermint and that many essential oils are very dangerous for cats.

If you have any humanity do not use the glue traps. Mice will chew their feet off to escape these traps. Cats and kittens are often caught in the traps (think about when you throw the traps away and the poor cats who
live at the landfill). Kittens become covered in the glue and if lucky
require vet care.

 

[Kflowers]

I've also known dogs to die from rat/mouse poison.

If your cat won't hunt the mice, see if you can borrow a friend's Jack Russell or Treeing Walker. Be sure your cats are locked away from the
dogs when they are clearing the mice from your house. Excited dogs get confused as to who is prey and who isn't. Your own dog who knows your
cats would not get confused.

 

[NY cat man]

The thing about carpenter ants is that they are attracted to damp or rotting wood, and can do serious structural damage to framing. If you have them in your house, you need to check for water infiltration around the sill plate and foundation.

 

[Jem]

Be very careful where you place the mouse poison. I've known two cats who died from eating poisoned mice

If you have any humanity do not use the glue traps

If I ever need to get a mouse I get normal mouse traps from our dollar store. They work great. Usually though, one of the cats has gotten it. I don't have a huge issue, I hardly ever even find evidence of one until the cat got it. This is one of the first times I've seen poop, but it's in an area the cats don't go.
I'm just trying to figure out what can be used to block their entry to my home, that actually lasts and they wont chew thru.

In all honesty, I'm more concerned about the ants though. I really hope they are not nesting in my walls!!!!

 

[Jem]

The thing about carpenter ants is that they are attracted to damp or rotting wood, and can do serious structural damage to framing. If you have them in your house, you need to check for water infiltration around the sill plate and foundation.

Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of. The areas that I can get to and see, are dry. We have had issues with our roof, but we got that fixed and the surrounding area, where the water was coming in, is dry. We've never had water in our basement or flooding. That's why I think they are coming from outside, there are plenty of areas that are favorable to them out there that are near or sort of near the house. Other than usual grass cutting, my yard maintenance has been seriously lacking... (dead trees, stumps, wood and brick piles etc...) And the fact that I displaced a large nest when we replaced our rotting shed. I've just not been able to get to them. That will be my first priority in the spring!!!

 

[NY cat man]

I believe there is a product- like that foam that is used to seal air leaks- that contains an additive that mice don't like and won't chew through.

 

[di and bob]

I get those mouse repellant bags at farm supply stores. they do work! They smell like strong pine, which isn't bad to humans. Would be good around Christmas time1

 

[jefferd18]

Steel wool and caulking compound will deter the mice from entering your home. With ants you can create a chalk, tape, or talcum powder barrier.

 

[susanm9006]

I don’t mean to make you even more nervous but having been through a carpenter ant invasion in my home I would strongly encourage you to have a professional exterminator take a look. I thought I only saw a few ants here and there but after having my basement walls treated it turned out I had thousands and thousands of carpenter ants living In the walls. So many came out I had to build raised ramps for the cats to get to their litter boxes and it took six weeks to kill all the ants.

As far as mice, I also had a big time mouse invasion as they were apparently drawn to my corn based litter. I used baking soda and flour sprinkled near doors, windows and other likely entrances and then looked each morning for footprints. I quickly figured out their entrance, stuffed cracks with steel wool and set mousetraps to catch any inside. Haven’t had mice since then.

 

[misty8723]

You can get humane traps for the mice and rehome them to the woods. I did that once when we had a mouse in the house. I won't poison or kill them, but the humane trap just shuts once they get in and they can't get out. Very easy to let them out somewhere away from your home. We drove to a wooded area.

 

[MonaLyssa33]

I'm having the same problem with ants! I have the small sugar ants though, so I've been putting out Terro syrup to kill them. The population has dwindled dramatically since Sunday so I'm grateful about that. I don't like having the poison out with my cats around so I have it blocked off by my toilet plunger (the infestation is primarily in the bathroom) and then I shut the bathroom door when I'm not home.

 

[Jem]

Well, we ended up getting an exterminator just over a month ago and it worked...at first.
Haven't seen any ants in the house at all since, but as I was replacing the caulking at the front door today (one of the entry points that the ants were using, to get to the nest I found)...I noticed a new frass pile on my concrete step.
It was falling out of the sofit area, from the corner of the overhang of the house. We have a side split and the upper level juts out from the foundation. So I pulled the section of sofit down and I saw a few ants, but OMG, so wet in there. I knew we had water getting in, because I finally found a damp area in the upstairs bedroom floor, well...under the floor...The outside corner (where it overhangs) it smelled musty and the sub-floor was "bouncy", just the corner though, about a 2x2 section.
So the first step was exterminator...and no more ants in the house, and the original nest area (which is only a few feet from the corner of the overhang) I found has not been active at all and they have not been travelling thru to the back of the house in our crawl space like before either.
We also pulled off our back step, as that was another area where they were getting in and out, and zero signs of life, or moisture.
Then we wanted to wait the 2 weeks that the residue stays, to make sure the pest control worked...and it seemed like it did.
Next step, figure out where the water was coming from and fix it.
So today was the caulking. And like I said above, that's when I notice the frass.
The only logical place the water could be coming in, in that area was from the roof. So my husband climbed the ladder and found an area where water could get in behind the eaves-trough of the lower level, where it meets the siding of the upper level. We cleaned and caulked that up too, so hopefully no more water will get in behind the siding.
So back to the sofit I took off. Soaking wet insulation, full of frass, and I found 5 ants. I have no idea at this point how much structural damage has been done. I'm terrified, because the more I investigate, I start to notice little things that make me think we'll have to do a good sized renovation/fix up.
Like the drywall in the living room, right in line with where the water would saturate behind the wall, has some cracking and lifting where the seams of the drywall sheets meet. So something may have shifted, or it could just be from moisture.
Then of course, the sub floor in the upstairs bedroom is bouncy.
My front door, again, all in the same area of the house where water and the nests were found) (Hence the caulking of the front door), is not perfectly square.
The floors creak in that area as well, but our floors have always been creaky...all over the house...it's older, so I don't know if I'm just being paranoid about that sign.
Hopefully most of what I see is only due to moisture and with enough time to dry, I won't have to replace too much. But I'm going to have to get a contractor in to assess everything. I'm probably going to have to pull drywall out of the living room and the bedroom upstairs to see behind the wall. The insulation and sofit outside, for sure will need to be replaced...I left the sofit off in hopes that it will dry out a bit, or at least not trap any extra water, if we didn't actually find and fix where the water was coming in.
We'll have to pull up the floor in the bedroom and most likely replace the sub-floor. I'm going to have to call the exterminator again to have him re-treat the area outside, in the exterior wall/over hang where the nest is...I hope we don't have to evacuate the house again and he only needs to spray outside. I think I will ask him to put the powder stuff in the walls this time as well. Who cares about a few holes in the drywall if I have to take it all down anyway! He only sprayed both the inside and outside the first time.

We didn't have that much extra money to begin with and with Covid, our funds are even lower as we both couldn't work for three months. We still have our savings, but I hate to have to use them all, depending on how expensive this will be.
I know we can go thru insurance, but then what? higher premiums? yipee! Thankfully the extermination package we paid for gives us a full year of coverage, so any time we have to call them back, we don't have to pay.

I'm feeling sick over this. I swear, we can't go a week without some sort of hiccup. My hair will never grow back if this keeps up!!!!! (I have been suffering from chronic telogen effluvium..hair loss due to high stress/trauma for over 2 years now...it sucks!)

Anyway, sorry about the long rant.

 

[Jem]

OH! and the part that makes me really mad. Our neighbor has an old broken down makeshift garage, that has partially collapsed this year, although it's been falling apart for a few years now. And I swear that is where the main nest came from. It's only about 8 feet from our house and carpenter ants form satellite nests as they grow and expand. I have searched my whole yard and can't find any evidence of a main nest in my yard so I think it's coming from his yard.
We did have a nest in our shed in the back yard that was removed like 5 years ago, but even that nest wasn't big enough to be the "main" nest.
I'm going to call the city to see what my options are about his garage. Even if it's not the source of the ants, it is collapsing and is a potential hazard not only to our neighbor, but our property as well, depending on how it finally falls down and depending on what he has stored in there.

 

[susanm9006]

Jem

I am sorry. I went through the carpenter ant infestation and it was horrible. However, they told me that it can take up to six weeks to kill them all, so maybe they are still dying off. But they do love moisture and you are right, you have to figure out how it’s coming in. The thousands in my basement were living between the damp basement walls and the paneling, and so the summer after I suited up and tore it all off. Nothing left living behind it and surprisingly no damage to the stud walls. So at least for me they didn’t do damage except to my nerves.

 

[susanm9006]

Jem , you don’t want to anything about the neighbors garage until you have made sure all of your entry points have been sealed so that a tear down over there doesn’t mean another invasion at your place.

 

[Jem]

you don’t want to anything about the neighbors garage until you have made sure all of your entry points have been sealed so that a tear down over there doesn’t mean another invasion at your place.

Yeah, good point....I'll hold off for now. Thanks.
Now it's just a matter of getting the exterminator and of course finding a contractor. This is so stressful...I have a hard time trusting that who I will hire knows what they are doing...we've been burned before.
My husband is going to go thru his contacts / client list to get a few estimates, hopefully they can be trustworthy as there is already a "relationship" there.

 

[Winchester]

I'm wishing you good luck with those ants!

A few years ago, we gutted our kitchen and started over. Evidently, we disturbed something and the next summer we had ants galore. It was completely disgusting. Rick ended up going into the basement and pulling back all the insulation in the basement ceiling and putting ant killer along the walls. For the most part, that did the job. Early in the summer, we get a minor infestation, but several sprays along the perimeter of the house twice a week for several weeks is enough to get rid of them. We sprayed Zevo (supposed to be harmless to humans and pets) along the very back of the counter tops, too. Ours were the wee little ants. Disgusting nonetheless.

 

[Jem]

Well, I was finally able to meet with someone!!!! And according to him, just from the "preliminary" investigation he did, it seems like we probably don't have any significant structural damage. It's still pretty wet in there though.
He won't come back to pull everything off to do a full inspection just yet, because he also confirmed what we thought was the source of the water. And recommended we fix that now (what we already did, wasn't quite enough, even though it helped), then open things up to let dry out and get the exterminator back to spray in the cantilever cavity once we pull down the soffit and take out all the wet insulation and remove the plastic.

So basically, the gutter of the lower level of my house, was installed where it cuts INTO the siding of the wall of the upper level. Then they just caulked around it. So now that the gutters started overflowing, and the caulking started failing, all that water was getting in behind the siding and pooling in the cantilever. That is also where the ant nest is.
So we are going to call the guy who did our roof, and get him to replace that front gutter, and patch the hole where the old one was put. The contractor is confident that if that hole gets patched, we won't get anymore water.
Then we are going to pull down the soffit, take out all the insulation and open up the plastic (which is holding water against the joists) from the cantilever, and let it dry out a bit.
He came into the house and checked all the joists inside and said they all looked good, so if there is any damage structurally, it would only be in the last 1 to 2 foot section that extends beyond the foundation (the cantilever). But he did notice some evidence of water damage on the subfloor...which we knew, due to a section of it being soft.
He's cautiously optimistic that we don't have a Pandora's Box situation, but isn't promising anything.
So once it's been able to dry out a bit, then he'll come back to re-inspect, to make sure we indeed found the source of water, pull down some siding to check the integrity of the exterior wall/insulation and get to work fixing it.

He also put me at ease a bit because he agreed with a few points I made with all the research I did about how to properly fix a cantilever. Well.....I asked questions, and he answered "correctly"....not knowing that I wanted to hear a specific answer...
Did I mention I don't trust other people to do work for me?

He did sort of mention without really saying it that fixing the floor/subfloor, is not an "urgent" matter. He said that "when we were ready" to fix the floors, we will have to replace the subfloor, so I assume that means it can wait a bit. That COULD change depending on what he sees when things are opened up fully, but I will try not to think about that too much.
He also said that the front door (frame and threshold) should be replaced.

So, I'm feeling....OK...so far. Most of what he said, is what I expected so I wasn't hit with any major bombs.