Another Diarrhea Thread -- I have tried everything

sarah8million

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Hi Everyone,

I adopted a 5 month old kitten about 10 weeks ago and shortly after her arrival both she and my 2 year old kitty started having diarrhea. A vet took a look at them and didn't see any obvious issues but we did a PCR test and found only small amounts of clostridium. We dewormed, tried metronidazole, then tylan capsules. I have also supplemented with visibiome, fortiflora, pumpkin, psyllium, and s boulaardi at various points in this journey. Nothing has seemed to help. A few weeks ago, I saw a normal poop or two but it's now been constant diarrhea from both cats.

It seems so unlikely to be food or IBD since it's both of them. They seem normally active and are eating.

I am at my wits end and the vet says we are pretty much out of options and this may just be something we have to keep working at.

I would LOVE anyone's help.
 
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sarah8million

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Also, I should have noted this, the fecal also came back positive for coronavirus, but that wasn't a surprise.
 

daftcat75

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Clostridium can be a nasty one. S. boulardii works. But you maybe didn't give enough of it or long enough. When my angel kitty Krista had clostridium, I was giving her half a pill (250 mg), 4 times a day. We did this at least a month before I trusted those solid poops again. I brought one in for a PCR re-test and the vet laughed me out of the office. He told "save your money. We don't need to perform another PCR on a solid poop. If she still had clostridium, it wouldn't be solid." Did you get the Jarrow brand s. boulardii? I don't know how much the brand matters except that Jarrow has MOS and the others do not. The site that told me about s. boulardii made a big deal over this ingredient. (A prebiotic, I think?) That both cats are having poop issues suggests to me that they might be passing the clostridium between them. Get them both eating the s. boulardii at least half a pill twice a day. As long as it doesn't make matters worse in the litter box, you can increase the amount of s. boulardii as you see fit and effective. Your cats will get tired of eating the stuff long before you find a harmful dose.
 

Meowmee

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Hi Everyone,

I adopted a 5 month old kitten about 10 weeks ago and shortly after her arrival both she and my 2 year old kitty started having diarrhea. A vet took a look at them and didn't see any obvious issues but we did a PCR test and found only small amounts of clostridium. We dewormed, tried metronidazole, then tylan capsules. I have also supplemented with visibiome, fortiflora, pumpkin, psyllium, and s boulaardi at various points in this journey. Nothing has seemed to help. A few weeks ago, I saw a normal poop or two but it's now been constant diarrhea from both cats.

It seems so unlikely to be food or IBD since it's both of them. They seem normally active and are eating.

I am at my wits end and the vet says we are pretty much out of options and this may just be something we have to keep working at.

I would LOVE anyone's help.
So sorry, I went through this with Quinn and Merlin. For Quinn it started after the flea treatment as a kitten. The metro helped him every time but eventually I had to do a home cooked diet and only fussie cat chicken and pumpkin grainfree. He got runs every time he ate Sybil's food, she was on a special diet do to health which was anything she would eat and the fussie cat low sodium eventually she would not eat that but I noticed he could eat it and no runs.

For Merlin, it started after he came inside. I tried everything, metro did not work, steroid helped but did not eliminate it, he tested pos for c difficile on pcr and was on doxycycline and ronidazole possible for tritrichomonas feotus. Eventually I gave up on meds, weaned him off of steroids and we had started the home cooked diet, no grains etc. and only the fussie cat, the one flavor grain free. It finally stopped tg. It took a few months of hard work. The supplements sb etc. made him worse, gave him terrible gas and worse runs so I stopped all of them too.

He and Quinn are very similar in their tummy troubles in that they can only eat those foods and chicken or turkey tidbits.
 
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sarah8million

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Meowmee, I read your story with so much interest. I was convinced that it had to be something infectious because both cats are experiencing it but I have now has TWO PCR tests come back with nothing. I have been trying a round of Metro + Safeguard out of desperation but it has been a few days and nothing has changed other than one of my cats hating me for having to force down the meds. I am so down about it. Not sure what to do next.
 

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If it’s not infection, then it must be ingestion or environment. What are they eating? Did your 2 year old’s diet change at all when you brought the kitten home? What about treats? Plants? Fragrances or essential oils? Are they allowed outdoors?
 

Meowmee

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Meowmee, I read your story with so much interest. I was convinced that it had to be something infectious because both cats are experiencing it but I have now has TWO PCR tests come back with nothing. I have been trying a round of Metro + Safeguard out of desperation but it has been a few days and nothing has changed other than one of my cats hating me for having to force down the meds. I am so down about it. Not sure what to do next.
Don’t give up. I know how hard this is. How long have they been on the meds? Has it helped at all? You could try Rinidazole and just assume they have TF if they could have been exposed to that from some thing coming into the house if they don’t go outside. maybe a short course of steroids as well and wean them off. It might be worth giving them a treatment of panicur as well just in case it’s a parasite. It may take a couple of rounds of medication unfortunately to really knock it out.

I would also consider the diet and see if changing it helps but do it slowly. It seems like the kitten probably brought some thing along with him and your other kitty got it after. But it could be food as well. The diet really is the only thing that stopped it for both Quinn and Merlin although their issues happened at different times and were different and it had nothing to do with one transmitting something to the other.

The diet I use is a home-cooked diet made with chicken chicken liver and supplements from this website the recipes are there. If you do a cooked diet instead of a raw diet you have to use the supplement that has calcium added into it. It’s actually cheaper than the canned food that I also feed them. I use that as a back up for when I can’t cook the homemade food.
Know What You Feed Your Cat - Homemade Diet Guide
I think this helped them because they both have a reaction to wheat and grains and some other ingredients most likely. They also both react to butter and dairy products. And tuna.


I hope you figure out some thing that works and this ends soon. 🤗
 
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sarah8million

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Thank you both. They are both indoor only cats.

I definitely tinkered a bit to try to find a food that they would both eat. My older cat used to eat anything other than chicken, but now she is obsessed with lotus brand “just juicy” venison wet food and I can’t get her to even try much else. I tried mixing that with another food recently and she just smelled it and then immediately “buried” it.

I have used panacur 3 times now. Also tried s boulardii and visibiome. Have sporadically added psyllium and pumpkin but neither seemed to change anything.
 

Meowmee

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Thank you both. They are both indoor only cats.

I definitely tinkered a bit to try to find a food that they would both eat. My older cat used to eat anything other than chicken, but now she is obsessed with lotus brand “just juicy” venison wet food and I can’t get her to even try much else. I tried mixing that with another food recently and she just smelled it and then immediately “buried” it.

I have used panacur 3 times now. Also tried s boulardii and visibiome. Have sporadically added psyllium and pumpkin but neither seemed to change anything.
If the kitten was once an outdoor cat such as he had been rescued from outside he could still have a parasite. Indoor cats can also get parasites from things brought into the house such as dirt on your shoes and insects entering the house etc. It seems like three treatments of panicur probably should’ve gotten rid of any possible parasites or most of them anyway.

It could also have been the stress of adding a new kitten and a reaction to diet. It’s so hard because there’s no way to tell for sure what is going on. They could’ve become stressed and then both started reacting to the diet they were already eating.
 
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sarah8million

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If the kitten was once an outdoor cat such as he had been rescued from outside he could still have a parasite. Indoor cats can also get parasites from things brought into the house such as dirt on your shoes and insects entering the house etc. It seems like three treatments of panicur probably should’ve gotten rid of any possible parasites or most of them anyway.

It could also have been the stress of adding a new kitten and a reaction to diet. It’s so hard because there’s no way to tell for sure what is going on. They could’ve become stressed and then both started reacting to the diet they were already eating.
That’s my best guess at this point since none of the three medications we have tried have done anything and two fecals have some back negative. My plan is to try to give them a break from the harsh meds and supplement with psyllium and probiotics for a while to see if things improve.
 

daftcat75

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That’s my best guess at this point since none of the three medications we have tried have done anything and two fecals have some back negative. My plan is to try to give them a break from the harsh meds and supplement with psyllium and probiotics for a while to see if things improve.
That sounds like a great plan.

Perhaps also try them off the venison for awhile. Perhaps venison doesn’t treat them as well as they enjoy it. 🤦🏼‍♂️😿 It might not even be the venison. It could be an extra ingredient like the potato starch, sunflower oil, or agar-agar. That last one is where my money would be. Agar agar and carrageenan did a number on my IBD kitty. Xanthan gum too. That makes smooth foods smooth. It also makes poops smooth. Mousse in, mousse out. 🤦🏼‍♂️There’s also salmon oil in that venison food. Some cats react poorly to fish oils. Then again. If there is a food you might want to try instead, you might pick up a pump bottle of Grizzly salmon oil and try mixing a pump into a can of the new food to bridge the appeal gap. I would try Fancy Feast Classic beef flavor pate with a pump of salmon oil to eliminate the agar agar, sunflower oil, and potato starch in the Lotus brand. Rawz makes excellent single protein pate foods with no nonsense ingredients that are ideal for IBD cats and food trials. Or the home cooked option Meowmee Meowmee posted would give you the most flexibility in choosing ingredients and figuring out problematic ones like fish oil.
 
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daftcat75

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Rawz also makes a duck recipe that contains salmon oil. This was very popular with my Krista. But I don’t think the salmon oil was helping her hairballs. Ultimately we landed on Rawz rabbit pate. And sometimes rabbit with pumpkin pate too. Rawz will send you samples if you email them. Also some online retailers sell their food by the can rather than the case.
Where to Buy | RAWZ
 
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sarah8million

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Thank you! I have been avoiding carrageenan but not agar-agar, sunflower oil or potato starch — you are the first person to give me that advice and I appreciate it.

Birdie and Sip seem to have a preference for chunks in gravy type textures. I am all eats for any ideas!
 

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daftcat75

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Torties! Krista was a tortie. I have a soft spot. Yours are beautiful.

Tiki Cat makes a venison flavor that doesn’t have agar agar or carrageenan. It has cassia gum which I am neutral on. Krista never showed distress after cassia gum foods. And it has guar gum which many consider benign (no complaints from Krista) and possibly beneficial as a prebiotic. You can always add a pump of salmon oil to it if your girls don’t think it matches up to Lotus.

It’s too bad they are out of stock here. But Tiki Cat should be an easy enough brand to find elsewhere including local stores.
TIKI CAT After Dark Pate Venison & Beef Liver Recipe Grain-Free Wet Cat Food, 3-oz, case of 12 - Chewy.com
 
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sarah8million

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Thank you SO much for this information (from me and my torties to you and your Krista ❤). I am going to give this a try and will report back in case it helps others.
 
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sarah8million

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Well, of course the day after I decided to stop the metro, I saw a perfect poop and thought “what have I done?!”

Unfortunately both cats are now doing everything in their power to avoid the medication at this point avoiding both pills and liquid no matter how many treats I cover them with (pill pouch rolled in nutritional yeast covered in churu). I am able to dose the older one with a syringe… sort of.. but she hates me afterwards and is on a food strike now. The younger one came to me semi-feral and there is just absolutely no way for me to pill her.

I was able to get some alternative venison food and they barely touched it. Hard to get even probiotics in them when they are eating so little.

We are back to diarrhea. Feeling helpless and that I am not up to the challenge after 8+ weeks of diarrhea.
 

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I know how terrible you feel. Don’t give up. Have you tried crushing pills or liquid and mixing in stinky food such as cat tuna? If you can syringe her and its helping her just keep doing it and give her a treat after. For the kitten can you scruff her to syringe or pill? Wear gloves if needed.
 

daftcat75

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Did you try adding salmon oil to the other venison food? Salmon oil is in the Lotus brand. It stands to reason it would be part of the flavor and appeal of the Lotus brand if the other brand does not include it. Grizzly makes pump bottles of salmon oil. I would do 1 pump per can rather than trying to do it per meal.

Have you had a second (or third?) opinion on whether it's infection or possibly ingestion/allergen? Is there a specialist you could consult with?

You can get metro compounded into flavored oil. I got Krista's chemo medicine compounded into a highly concentrated anchovy flavored oil. Instead of having to give a 1 ml dose, I only needed to disguise 0.1 mL of oil in a half pump of salmon oil. She licked that plate clean every dosing day and then got her food directly after. I recommend getting any liquid doses concentrated so that you have less to get into the cat. 0.1 mL was a small enough dose that I probably could have given it orally. But with the flavoring, I didn't need to. They also have other formulations you can choose from including chew treats.

Metronidazole Oral Oil Suspension
 
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