Am I seeing overly aggressive behavior from my 2 year old cat towards my new kitten?

misterbreadcrum

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Hello everyone, I've had a new kitten for about a week now and I'm getting a bit worried that I might be doing something wrong. I found this site by googling around for similar situations and found a post titled Older Cat Biting New Kitten's Neck... which is quite similar to what I'm experiencing. I'll add some context and maybe shed some light on how this might be different.

For starters, my first cat Cosmo is a 2.5 year old very sweet fixed male. He's extremely relaxed about being picked up, cuddling etc. He just has a generally very easy going attitude towards us. My fiance and I have been talking about getting another pet recently and heard that a friend of a friend had a litter. So the new female kitten appears to be 8 weeks old and is of course very very playful but also very small - about 2 lbs. She's got her own room set up in our office where I work from home. Obviously this was not a big secret to Cosmo who became very agitated that he could no longer hang out with us in the office while we kept the two separate. After about a day we let them see each other through a baby-gate and Cosmo's eyes dilated like he had just seen a bug that he wanted to chase and kill. Although there was no hissing or growling, this made me extremely nervous (in fact I would have been less alarmed if he gave her such warning signs instead of acting like he would just jump her) so we kept them completely separate for about another day.

When we tried to introduce them again everything seemed alright. Cosmo got a very good set of sniffs in and only lightly patted her on the the top of the head. We started feeding them together and that went quite well also, neither of them really acknowledged each other and now they eat right next to each other. The problem comes when we try to intermingle them during play-time (play-time for the kitten, Cosmo is not interested in playing around her really) This is when Cosmo gets very aggressive, but less in a dominating sense and more in what appears to be a predatory sense. Again, there has been no hissing or growling at all. Instead, Cosmo will wait for her to either turn her back or flip upside down playing with a toy before wiggling his but and jumping on top of her. The first time he did this he pinned her down, ears back and eyes wide. We immediately separated them for a while but when we got them back together, he instead started angling around her, trying to get out of both our sight and hers. So now every time they are together he is trying to find a way to attack her, usually trying to nip at her neck. When we hold them in close proximity, it's just swatting and lunging.

As a concerned parent of this new kitten, my biggest fear is that Cosmo is of course going to make himself an only-cat again by swiftly removing his new little sister from the equation. I understand cats have to establish a hierarchy like this, but this behavior seems more harmful than it does disciplinary. Is this simply going to take approximately the time it's going to take for the kitten to grow big enough not to be killed in one chomp, or should I actually let Cosmo get a good cuff on her, and if so how do I know it won't be lethal? I know a week isn't a long time but I really want to make sure I do this right and don't set Cosmo up to just loathe his little sister for the rest of time.
 

Furballsmom

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Is this simply going to take approximately the time it's going to take for the kitten to grow big enough not to be killed in one chomp
She's still fragile, and does need to be separated from your older cat so she can eat, use the litter box and have some chance to relax a little, until she gets enough size that she can protect herself.

It won't take long, they grow fast :)!
 

ArtNJ

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This is 100% just play. Cats are predators, and like all predators, they play by simulating hunting and fighting. The *only* issue we must consider is this one: in the wild, a young playful adult would not have access to an 8 week old kitten to play with, as momma would prevent that. So big young adults don't necessarily know how to fully tone it down for 8 week olds. That said, adult cats do NOT intentionally hurt kittens, there is biological hard wiring preventing that. And they almost never accidentally hurt them either, whatever it looks like. Still, since the kitten is only 8 weeks old (and thus 2/3 the size it will be at 12 weeks) it does behove us to watch. We are watching the kitten, since he will show us if he is being hurt. A little squealing is ok, that is like little brother getting an indian sunburn or head noogie. A little running away in the moment is ok too. But the key is this: DOES LITTLE CAT ACT AFRAID OUTSIDE OF PLAY? OR DOES HE COME RIGHT BACK FOR MORE AFTER A MINUTE OR TWO? If he comes right back, especially if he instigates play sometimes, he is telling you all is well. And it very much sounds like all is well.

Since this kitten is only 8 weeks old, it would be reasonable to take a video to show us. But I don't think you have anything to worry about. Its safe and appropriate to let the kitten be your guide as I describe above. I don't have any problem with folks that say wait a couple of weeks to be safe, ater all a 12 week old will be 50% bigger and sturdier, but I have never seen a post here about a playful adult that caused a kitten a serious injury. Still, for a first time owner (at least in this situation) for peace of mind, perectly fine to share a video with us. If we see anything unusual, we'll let you know and what to do will be clear (ie wait a bit before allowing interaction).

In the long run, as kitten gains some size and you get comfortable watching, these guys are becoming friends. In the long run, it is 1000% better for the 2 1/2 year old to want to play with the kitten, because it means that they are headed for true friendship. It doesn't always happen this way. So you got lucky your 2 1/2 year old accepted the kitten so fast -- this is a very good thing -- even if it looks scary as *&^! watching a full size young adult cat play with a 2 pound kitten. (And it does, at least for first timers, we know that!)
 
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misterbreadcrum

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A little squealing is ok, that is like little brother getting an indian sunburn or head noogie. A little running away in the moment is ok too. But the key is this: DOES LITTLE CAT ACT AFRAID OUTSIDE OF PLAY? OR DOES HE COME RIGHT BACK FOR MORE AFTER A MINUTE OR TWO? If he comes right back, especially if he instigates play sometimes, he is telling you all is well. And it very much sounds like all is well.

Since this kitten is only 8 weeks old, it would be reasonable to take a video to show us. But I don't think you have anything to worry about. Its safe and appropriate to let the kitten be your guide as I describe above. I don't have any problem with folks that say wait a couple of weeks to be safe, ater all a 12 week old will be 50% bigger and sturdier, but I have never seen a post here about a playful adult that caused a kitten a serious injury. Still, for a first time owner (at least in this situation) for peace of mind, perectly fine to share a video with us. If we see anything unusual, we'll let you know and what to do will be clear (ie wait a bit before allowing interaction).

In the long run, as kitten gains some size and you get comfortable watching, these guys are becoming friends. In the long run, it is 1000% better for the 2 1/2 year old to want to play with the kitten, because it means that they are headed for true friendship. It doesn't always happen this way. So you got lucky your 2 1/2 year old accepted the kitten so fast -- this is a very good thing -- even if it looks scary as *&^! watching a full size young adult cat play with a 2 pound kitten. (And it does, at least for first timers, we know that!)
So the nerves have kept me from letting them really play together, as you'll see in my reaction in the video. So the kitten does seem a little nervous around Cosmo, but is never hiding from him.

I think I will go ahead and wait for the 12 week mark, maybe if she's big enough to be fixed soon I can wait for her to heal after that and get them playing a bit more. My nerves have also led me down a Google trail where I found a Reddit thread about the absolute worst case scenario here and I think that I may be letting that keep me biased.

Anyway, as promised here's the video.

Also thanks so much to both of you for the thoughtful feedback.
 

klunick

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Not sure if it's just me but it seems like in the beginning you are jiggling the kitten in front of your cat almost like a toy. So when you start playing with the kitten and it moves, he attacks like he would with a toy. Like I said, maybe just me seeing it. 🤷‍♀️
 
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misterbreadcrum

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Not sure if it's just me but it seems like in the beginning you are jiggling the kitten in front of your cat almost like a toy. So when you start playing with the kitten and it moves, he attacks like he would with a toy. Like I said, maybe just me seeing it. 🤷‍♀️
You're definitely not wrong, however this is normal behavior when the kitten is either playing herself or just sitting with her back to him. So while it does kind of seem like I am provoking him, that's just circumstantial to the video and I don't think it's the reason for the lunge. It scares me that so many of these attempted pounces occur when she is not paying attention or has her back to him, and so it does look very hostile and not very playful to me.
 

klunick

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You're definitely not wrong, however this is normal behavior when the kitten is either playing herself or just sitting with her back to him. So while it does kind of seem like I am provoking him, that's just circumstantial to the video and I don't think it's the reason for the lunge. It scares me that so many of these attempted pounces occur when she is not paying attention or has her back to him, and so it does look very hostile and not very playful to me.
If you are worried, keep them separate until she gets bigger. Girls tend to get attitudes at an early age so once a little bigger, she will be more able to stand up for herself. My girl is 4 lbs and she doesn't take crap from her 6 lbs brother... at all!!
 

ArtNJ

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I agree that it wasn't really much of a fair test, since we don't know what the big one would have done in real circumstances, but hoo boy, yes the big one did come in fast! There were no noises or signs of stress on the big one, so I think we are good, but if you are worried, there is no harm in waiting. The play won't be any different and will still look scary, but kittens gain a pound a month so a few weeks makes a big difference in sturdiness.
 

ArtNJ

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This is a good video to watch that shows cats playing with a massive size difference. I consider this playing very nicely, but that is because I've had a lot of cats in this situation and understand how it goes. Sometimes the kitten is a little less eager than this and the big cat a bit more aggressive -- this is pretty much the best case for active vigorous but safe play with a massive size difference. The poster doesn't have my experience and has questions, because its always scary for first timers when the size difference is this big and play so vigorous. This video is basically exactly how my most recent kitten, then 10 weeks, played with my adult 4 year old cat and I was delighted the little one was enjoying it so much and the big one had enough restraint to not overdo it and send her running immediately.

 
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misterbreadcrum

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Oh I wish that was how they played haha. My gut definitely tells me I should be waiting a bit to allow her to get some size on her and maybe any excitement over the newness of the kitten or jealousy has worn off. I'll be sure to update here though for anyone reading in the future.
 

ArtNJ

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Oh I wish that was how they played haha. My gut definitely tells me I should be waiting a bit to allow her to get some size on her and maybe any excitement over the newness of the kitten or jealousy has worn off. I'll be sure to update here though for anyone reading in the future.
Lol yeah, that big cat is kinda lazy. Lets see if I can find one a little more typical ... hmmm this big cat is a huge fluff ball too, but is a bit rougher with some pouncing:


Here is one where the poster thought the big cat was "going for the kill" but the kitten is totally happy in the defensive position:


In this video the big cat seems to be using the top position a bit more dominantly, and it wouldn't surprise me if the kitten was a little uncomforable and maybe sqealed a bit or ran later, but all is still fine. Well, I can't find one with a sleek mean, hunting machine (very common or 1-2 year old cats) -- ie. faster more vigorous pouncing and maybe a few squeals and running away by the kitten, but these videos might help a bit, even if you decide to wait. No harm in waiting, and I think you've made up your mind, just saying your likely to see rough play whenever you put them together. Good luck!
 
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misterbreadcrum

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Update: We decided to hold Luna (kitten) in close proximity with Cosmo, the older male and he gave her some pretty strong bites. I held her neck to be safe and Cosmo did bite there pretty hard but then recoiled, went to bite her on the back and then came back for the neck. I would think this means that if he wanted to draw blood he would have been able to. Still it was just too hard to let them have it out all the way so we separated them again. Cosmo is easily four times her size, so even if he doesn't mean to he may accidentally hurt her and as annoying as it is to have them crying at the door (literally all the time) I think a few weeks will make everything easier.
 

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I think a few weeks will make everything easier.
as annoying as it is to have them crying at the door (literally all the time)
For your little sweetheart, try a heartbeat toy or a purr toy, and a heating pad set on low with a couple towels over it.

For him, try cat music; there's spotify, youtube, alexa cat music, RelaxMyCat and MusicForCats as sources :)
 
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Hellenww

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We decided to hold Luna (kitten) in close proximity with Cosmo, the older male and he gave her some pretty strong bites. I held her neck to be safe and Cosmo did bite there pretty hard but then recoiled, went to bite her on the back and then came back for the neck.
How did she react to the bites? Did she cry or try to get away or act scared in any way? If not than it only looked hard. I'd also be afraid to leave them unsuppervised with that size difference. Any hard biting will stop as soon as she bites him back. He might have forgotten how to bite gently.

I always suggest keeping their nails trimmed. Especially the kittens. Those tiny nails are very sharp and can accidentally do dammage. I had an adult get a scratched eye and it's very painful.
 

ArtNJ

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Biting is a normal part of play as you can see from the videos. Sometimes the big cats do it a bit too hard when they are on top, and the kittens don't like it, squealing and trying to run away. Thats as bad as it gets though. All of that said, no harm in waiting.
 

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For your little sweetheart, try a heartbeat toy or a purr toy, and a heating pad set on low with a couple towels over it.

For him, try cat music; there's spotify, youtube, alexa cat music, RelaxMyCat and MusicForCats as sources :)
Yessss. If you have an echo, asking Alexa to play 'Relax My Cat' REALLY helped me when I was working on getting Mia less ready for constant skirmishes
 
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misterbreadcrum

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Update 2: We let them intermingle a little more and finally mustered the courage to let him get a good jump on her and she didn't really show signs of distress until the eventual squeal. It turned out she was fine, so we started letting them mingle together around the house outside of her room and the big one isn't exhibiting this behavior as much, but currently always eventually gets fed up and gives her a piece of his mind. There's not a ton of fondness there yet, although the big one will lick the little ones ear from time to time, I think she's just mostly too scared of him to try to play right now. So there's not much fear that he'll hurt her, but I do wish they'd get a long a little better.

It's also not bad that keeping a constant eye out for the big guy totally wears her out - I'll take any nap-time from the little one I can get.
 

ArtNJ

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Yep, in this situation, its like a human 7 y.o. with 4 y.o. little brother. Head noogies cause cries for mom, but they don't hurt nearly enough for little brother to stay terrified or not want to interact with big brother. Thats all the squeals are -- "ouch, stop it!" Believe me, kittens are capable of making a scream-like sound that you would hear if the kitten was truly being hurt.

I think you are seeing that the more they are together, the lower % of the time the big cat will be crazy like this. Its the christimas morning new toy effect. It will continue to happen, becuase the big cat wants to play play play, but it will be less and the kitten will become more and more comfortable, just squealing and running when it gets too much, but coming back pretty quickly.
 
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