Agar Agar... So What's The Deal?

trisha422

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My cat was diagnosed with IBD since I adopted her 4 months ago and I have been aggressive in trying to treat her symptoms.
It seems she can only tolerate rabbit (of course the most expensive meat).
She had been eating Nature's Variety wet Rabbit LID and I was told peas are bad for cats in general, but they can specifically cause inflammation in IBD cats. NV LID has TONS of peas and I don't have time to pick them out everytime.

I am transitioning her to the extremely expensive Hound and Gatos Rabbit, but there is sooooo much slimy stuff in there which I'm assuming is the second ingredient..agar agar.

Is this ingredient any better than peas?
Is H&G still a better option than NV?
Will agar agar still cause inflammation for my IBD girl?
Or is agar agar a safe ingredient?

** I am going to get her fresh rabbit meat to cook for her, but it is not always available. So I need quality can food as a back up****
 

LTS3

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Have you tried other novel proteins like venison, kangaroo, lamb, etc?

Koha has a LID line: Cat Food - Limited Ingredient Diet - Kohapet

Wild Calling used to have a canned rabbit formula. You may still be able to find it online.

Ziwi Peak has a canned rabbit and lamb: CANNED 'Daily-Cat' Food, Rabbit & Lamb recipe | Ziwipeak
A bland diet with no extra stuff is best for IBD. Many commercial brands include lots of stuff:angrywoman:

A home cooked diet is great but make sure that you supplement the meat. This has resources: Home-Cooked Cat Food Resources
 

lisahe

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If it were me, I'd probably try and avoid agar agar as well.
I agree. I avoid it for our cats because they have slightly sensitive stomachs, too. As with carageenan, I just don't feel comfortable feeding it because it's unclear how it might act in a cat's GI tract. It seems to be a new addition to cat foods, thanks to concerns about carrageenan.

As LTS3 LTS3 mentioned, homemade might work. Our cats love EZ Complete, which seems to really help our cat who has slight occasional nausea: the vet thinks it's the pancreas that's so good for her system! EZ isn't cheap but it's very good and can be used with raw or cooked muscle meats.
 
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trisha422

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Have you tried other novel proteins like venison, kangaroo, lamb, etc?

Koha has a LID line: Cat Food - Limited Ingredient Diet - Kohapet
I'm

Wild Calling used to have a canned rabbit formula. You may still be able to find it online.

Ziwi Peak has a canned rabbit and lamb: CANNED 'Daily-Cat' Food, Rabbit & Lamb recipe | Ziwipeak
A bland diet with no extra stuff is best for IBD. Many commercial brands include lots of stuff:angrywoman:

A home cooked diet is great but make sure that you supplement the meat. This has resources: Home-Cooked Cat Food Resources
I haven't found a lamb or venison commercial food without poultry in the ingredients. I'm pretty sure my little girl is intolerant to poultry cause different brands , including freeze dried raw, gave her bloody diarrhea.
I'm in the USA so kangaroo meat is even more inaccessible for me..the koha brand also has agar agar and I think I like the ingredients more in hound and Gatos than koha.
I absolutely cannot afford the ziwi peak lamb rabbit. It's $69 for 12 cans online!!
I have 7 other cats to feed. I'll check if a specialty cat store in my area can perhaps order it.

I'm going to see if she can tolerate cooked rabbit meat first, and then with ez complete. If all goes well for a while I will explore other protiens to cook like venison and lamb. (She didn't do well with cooked pork.)
The goal is to get her to eventually eat raw, but I honestly have small hope for that but we shall see.
Omg!! That emoji has my stomach in knots!!! Tooooooo funny!!!!!!
Thanks for your response as always!! You're so knowledgeable.
 
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trisha422

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I agree. I avoid it for our cats because they have slightly sensitive stomachs, too. As with carageenan, I just don't feel comfortable feeding it because it's unclear how it might act in a cat's GI tract. It seems to be a new addition to cat foods, thanks to concerns about carrageenan.

As LTS3 LTS3 mentioned, homemade might work. Our cats love EZ Complete, which seems to really help our cat who has slight occasional nausea: the vet thinks it's the pancreas that's so good for her system! EZ isn't cheap but it's very good and can be used with raw or cooked muscle meats.
Yes, I got a sample of ez complete. I'm going to see if she does well on the cooked rabbit first, and then add the ez complete if that goes well. She's soooo sensitive! She has a reaction to everything!!!

I guess a quality can food with no yucky ingredients was too optimistic to believe. I absolutely avoid carrangeenan! But wasnt sure about agar agar. *Sigh*
 
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trisha422

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Have you looked at Merrick backcountry ?
Yea, it's has beef and I was told by my kitty's holistic vet to avoid beef that is not grass fed and from factory farm cause it can cause inflammation. ‍♀
 

Furballsmom

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Is there any way you could do something, just as an example, like; some Merrick one day, some of something else another day, the ziwi peak once a week or so, ...
 
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trisha422

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Is there any way you could do something, just as an example, like; some Merrick one day, some of something else another day, the ziwi peak once a week or so, ...
Perhaps in the future. Everything I have tried has caused her to have bloody diarrhea. Nature's variety rabbit has been her only saving grace but even with that she still has flare ups with blood and mucus in her stool.
I have to introduce things very slowly.
Would be great if/when she can eat different proteins, but time will tell. Lots of trial and error.
 

lisahe

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Yes, I got a sample of ez complete. I'm going to see if she does well on the cooked rabbit first, and then add the ez complete if that goes well. She's soooo sensitive! She has a reaction to everything!!!

I guess a quality can food with no yucky ingredients was too optimistic to believe. I absolutely avoid carrangeenan! But wasnt sure about agar agar. *Sigh*
I'm glad to hear you got the EZ to try. You have a good gradual approach -- and apparently a lot of patience!

What bothers me so much about carrageenan, agar-agar, potato starch, tapioca, and all the gums is that cat food doesn't need them in the first place! Our cats' favorite canned food used to be Tiki, which didn't have any of that junk: there was just meat and some juice, which they called consomme. Unfortunately, Tiki changed their recipes and even the shape/size of their shreds and now our cats don't like it and I wouldn't feed it regularly anyway because it has menadione but my point here is that cats can love foods without thickeners and gelling agents.

We feed three kinds of canned food that don't have any gums or other gunk: Feline Natural, Rawz (which makes only salmon, chicken, turkey, and beef, so unfortunately, none of them would work for you!) and Koha's duck stew. Rawz and Koha do both use fenugreek as a thickener, though. That sounds like it's safer; fenugreek is even used for (human) upset stomachs. Even so, I'm not thrilled about it because cats just don't need thickened or "gelled" food!

Anyway, good luck, I hope the cooked rabbit with EZ Complete works out okay!
 

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You mentioned lamb. There are a few lamb foods that don't have poultry actually. Ziwipeak, Redbarn (although it has agar-agar and peas), and Hound & Gatos (which has agar-agar also, as you mentioned for the rabbit flavor.) My girl cat eats the H&G lamb and it's one of her favorites but I don't really have an aversion to agar-agar like I do for certain other ingredients.
 

duckpond

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Many foods out now, that i really want to try, have Agar-agar. And im just not comfortable with it as an ingredient. so i dont try those foods. I really wish more foods were like tiki, food without any thickeners in them. Just the broth. so hard to find foods without gums and thickeners.
 

duckpond

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So. . .not to sound clueless, but what's wrong with agar-agar?

The Japanese eat/use all kinds of seaweed derivatives and they have the highest average lifespan of any country. . .
Many things i read talk about Agar-agar being just like carageenan. I dont know if all i read about those two is true, but if it degrades during cooking, and degrades when it reacts with acids, and a cat has a very acidic stomach, i just don't want to chance it. I dont know as the risk of intestinal issues is worth it. I have also tried to cut as much as possible of it out of our diet too. No idea on the Japanese, i know they eat a lot of seaweeds, but im not sure about how processed it is, or if its more real seaweed, and in my mind that could make a difference. IDK. There are so many things to avoid in different foods, for different reasons. I guess we all need our own list of things, and this is one of mine :)
 

Willowy

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No idea on the Japanese, i know they eat a lot of seaweeds, but im not sure about how processed it is, or if its more real seaweed,
Yeah they eat a lot of real seaweed (it's delicious) but also derivatives. I would get these ice cream cones from a Japanese convenience store, and the ice cream didn't melt no matter how hot it was. I was told it had some kind of seaweed derivative that made it sort of jello-ish, I didn't know any more than that because I was a kid ;). Looking back, I assume it was carrageenan or something similar. Anyway, doesn't seem to cause any harm to them. Or me, so far, lol. I suppose you could look at ingredients of common Japanese foods online if you wanted to see if it's widely used.

Is there evidence that carrageenan degrades when cooked or in the stomach? I thought it only degraded when subjected to a specific chemical processing.

And I can't really find anything negative about agar-agar, admittedly I haven't gone past the first page of Google results though.

Anyway, yep, everybody has to have a list, I guess :D. Just making sure I'm not missing some crucial information.
 
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