Advice on Cat Introductions - Feeling a Bit Lost

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Furmama22

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Quick update that Hawthorne hid almost the entire rest of the evening (3 hours). All the usual treats were of no interest....I was able to eventually get him to emerge about 1 foot from the sofa to have some salmon and then I grabbed him and put him away in the French door room so Florie could come out. He was not happy with me.

Once in the room, he ate his treat and then went to hide under the bed.

The two could be unrelated - he is sometimes very scared by a certain kind of toy, or today he seemed scared by the sprinkler outside, so it's possible it was that and not Florie. I don't know.
 
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Aaaaanddddd..final morning update. We were able to do a treat session last night - it went the same; I tried to get them a bit closer and it was Hawthorne who seemed like he was a bit uncertain - and then he went and hid again, and then he hid a bit this morning but that was related to a thunderstorm we were having. He did eat a small amount of breakfast near the gate with Florie, but just a little bit. He seems to be out now and grooming. We are playing 'cat anxiety' music from Spotify throughout the house for calming. :)

Florie seems totally fine, hahah.

Sorry for all of these miniscule updates. I have to just let the week play out and see how we do.

I'll keep trying to play with Hawthorne and keep his confidence up.
 

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Thank you for watching the video and sharing your feedback! We are indeed trying to get them a bit closer together to see how that goes, during the treat times.

We also did a face-to-face supper tonight out in the main room. They both ate their meals no real issues (a bit of glancing) - they were about fifteen feet apart. Then Hawthorne looked like he was going to go groom somewhere but changed his mind to go towards her - either because he wanted to chase her (he did have a bit of that look) or because he wanted to go get a drink of water from his bowl (which was in her direction). My partner and I both quickly made movements and he got a bit startled and then I could distract him again with treats. Florie did well during the meal but once the meal was over she seemed uncertain about what to do. I thought perhaps she would just go back to her room. Instead, she started growling and hid behind the kitchen island. She did eat a treat but with some...hesitation. My partner tried to encourage her with treats to go back in the direction of her room but she was too scared (a bit low to the ground, ears pulled back a bit) - my partner said she seemed scared and was looking for Hawthorne. Then she ran downstairs into the basement.

So my partner went down with her for a bit (so it wouldn't seem like a punishment/territory taken away) and we closed the door. I went downstairs about four minutes later and she seemed fine - back to full confidence. She wanted out of the basement about 25 minutes later.

Hawthorne, strangely, went to lie under the sofa (normally after meals he is a little more gregarious) and wouldn't come out for a treat. About 25 minutes later I was able to lure him out with his salmon treat but he didn't want to go into the French door room again (I was going to put him in there briefly so I could get Florie out of the basement and back into her room). I had to pick him up (not ideal, I know) and put him in the room with his treat, and then he went to hide under the bed. Now the gate is open but he is still under the bed.

I don't know quite how to interpret that. He's obviously a bit scared or uncertain but AFTER the visit.

Florie came bounding out of the basement no issues and went happily back into her room. She is obviously scared when she sees him out but trusts us that he is away when she doesn't see him.

Anyways, sorry, long update. I had hoped she would be a little less scared but as you have noted, each new level adds new tensions. Hopefully if we do this every day this week for supper (and Hawthorne behaves himself and doesn't run at her) we can build her confidence.

Is that what we should be doing, would you say? Add in a supper face-to-face as well?

Should we have handled any part of this face to face visit differently?
"Thank you for watching the video and sharing your feedback!" - Oh my, you are welcome. The videos are so helpful as I can see their body language, the interactions. It is like I am there.

" We are indeed trying to get them a bit closer together to see how that goes, during the treat times." - Hmmmmmmmm, ;) are you sure??;) Seriously though, I know it is hard. But when they come towards you try to lead them closer with the treats.

By the way, Hawthorne is playing with the treats - Hunt (waiting), Capture (grabbing with paws), Kill (biting the treat), Eat (chewing the treat). It is fabulous. As is Florie.

AND I thought you looked great in the video. Relaxed, confident, calm. GREAT job!!

"We also did a face-to-face supper tonight out in the main room. They both ate their meals no real issues (a bit of glancing) - they were about fifteen feet apart." - Perfect!!!

" Then Hawthorne looked like he was going to go groom somewhere but changed his mind to go towards her - either because he wanted to chase her (he did have a bit of that look) or because he wanted to go get a drink of water from his bowl (which was in her direction)." - Ok, how was the body language? His speed of movement (faster than normal, slower, etc).

"My partner and I both quickly made movements and he got a bit startled" - Ok, you'll want to try to move normally at this point.

" and then I could distract him again with treats." - Perfect!!! THAT tells me he wasn't after her for "bad" things.

" Florie did well during the meal but once the meal was over she seemed uncertain about what to do." - Ok, that is fine.

" I thought perhaps she would just go back to her room." - Hmmmm, I would be surprised if she would. They usually don;t unless they are really afraid and that would show up in the eating (or none eating).

" Instead, she started growling and hid behind the kitchen island." - Ok, that is fine as long as he doesn't attack, etc.

" She did eat a treat but with some...hesitation." - Great, great job!!

" My partner tried to encourage her with treats to go back in the direction of her room but she was too scared (a bit low to the ground, ears pulled back a bit) - my partner said she seemed scared and was looking for Hawthorne. " - Ok, at this point just try to hang out with her there. No need to get her back in the room if she isn't getting attacked or at risk of being attacked etc. Just try not to panic and worry about what might happen that is negative.

"Then she ran downstairs into the basement." - Ok, where was Hawthorne?

"So my partner went down with her for a bit (so it wouldn't seem like a punishment/territory taken away)" - Great

" and we closed the door. I went downstairs about four minutes later and she seemed fine - back to full confidence. She wanted out of the basement about 25 minutes later." - Ok, great. She did really well.

What was Hawthorne acting like/doing at this point?

"Hawthorne, strangely, went to lie under the sofa (normally after meals he is a little more gregarious) and wouldn't come out for a treat." - Ok, not an issue.

" About 25 minutes later I was able to lure him out with his salmon treat " - Great

"but he didn't want to go into the French door room again (I was going to put him in there briefly so I could get Florie out of the basement and back into her room). " - Yes, he probably wanted to stay out (can't be that afraid of her).

"I had to pick him up (not ideal, I know) and put him in the room with his treat, and then he went to hide under the bed. " - Ok.

"Now the gate is open but he is still under the bed." - That is fine, he could get out when he wants to.

So far nothing negative happened so everything is fine so far.

"I don't know quite how to interpret that. He's obviously a bit scared or uncertain but AFTER the visit." - I think maybe he got freaked out by the movement of the people (faster than normal). Florie didn't seem to cause him issues. But it is fine, not a big deal at all.

"Florie came bounding out of the basement no issues and went happily back into her room." - Awwwww, perfect!!! She didn;t even worry he might be around?

"She is obviously scared when she sees him out" - Well, she does eat and she does come out and she moves towards him so she is not THAT scared.

"but trusts us that he is away when she doesn't see him." - Yes.

"Anyways, sorry, long update." - Oh my, this isn't long at all. This is great.

" I had hoped she would be a little less scared but as you have noted, each new level adds new tensions." - I don't think she was that bad at all. Maybe I am missing something but I thought they both did really well.

"Hopefully if we do this every day this week for supper (and Hawthorne behaves himself and doesn't run at her) we can build her confidence." - You will build confidence with encounters like this.

"Is that what we should be doing, would you say? Add in a supper face-to-face as well?" - Absolutely. And try to not panic and move "normally" and feel free to call his name, rattle treats, even throw a treat to distract him. I just don't believe he is going to try to kill her. He might chase but I highly doubt he wants to hurt her.

"Should we have handled any part of this face to face visit differently?" - Not really, you did great. Other than panicking (which is normal). Other than that I thought you both did fantastically. AND the cats did great.

We just need her to hide if she wants, growl, even be afraid and have nothing bad happen. Let him go about his business chasing treats, or something other than going after her.

But I thought the face to face went well and is a step in the right direction. No attack, no fight = positive!!! :)

GREAT job!!
 

calicosrspecial

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Quick update that Hawthorne hid almost the entire rest of the evening (3 hours). All the usual treats were of no interest....I was able to eventually get him to emerge about 1 foot from the sofa to have some salmon and then I grabbed him and put him away in the French door room so Florie could come out. He was not happy with me.

Once in the room, he ate his treat and then went to hide under the bed.

The two could be unrelated - he is sometimes very scared by a certain kind of toy, or today he seemed scared by the sprinkler outside, so it's possible it was that and not Florie. I don't know.
Sorry, I did not see these updates. :/ So please don't forget to read the prior post before this.

"Quick update that Hawthorne hid almost the entire rest of the evening (3 hours). All the usual treats were of no interest...." - Hmmmmm, that is strange. Did not expect that. Maybe he just didn't want to go into the french door room?

"I was able to eventually get him to emerge about 1 foot from the sofa to have some salmon and then I grabbed him and put him away in the French door room so Florie could come out. He was not happy with me." - No, I expect he wouldn't be happy. IF there is a next time jsut let him be and hang out with Florie in her room. It is fine if she doesn't come out for extenuating circumstances. But the way ti was is fine, no issue.

"Once in the room, he ate his treat and then went to hide under the bed." - Awwwwwwww. I wonder why he hide again? LOVE that he ate his treat though. Maybe he hid because he wasn't happy about being put in there? Why do you think?

"The two could be unrelated - he is sometimes very scared by a certain kind of toy, or today he seemed scared by the sprinkler outside, so it's possible it was that and not Florie. I don't know. " - Ahhhhhhhh, ok. Yes, I don't get a sense it was Florie. It was something else, could be those.

"Aaaaanddddd..final morning update. We were able to do a treat session last night - it went the same;" - Great!!! Where did you do it?

" I tried to get them a bit closer and it was Hawthorne who seemed like he was a bit uncertain" - Ok, that is fine. As long as there wasn't an attack/real fight it is fine.

"- and then he went and hid again," - Hmmmm, something spooked him. :/

"and then he hid a bit this morning but that was related to a thunderstorm we were having." - Makes sense.

" He did eat a small amount of breakfast near the gate with Florie, but just a little bit. " - OK, he might not have been hungry. And uncertainty can cause that as well. I am not worried.

"He seems to be out now and grooming. We are playing 'cat anxiety' music from Spotify throughout the house for calming. :)" - Great

"Florie seems totally fine, hahah." Perfect.

I am convinced it was not Florie causing his change in behavior.

"Sorry for all of these miniscule updates." - Oh my, these are important. Let me decide whether it is "miniscule". :)

" I have to just let the week play out and see how we do." - They are going to be fine. I see no reason they will not be.

"I'll keep trying to play with Hawthorne and keep his confidence up. " - Sounds good. I think he s doing fine. Something caused this blip and I think it is just a blip (and not related to Florie).

Did Florie attack Hawthorne at all? I am assuming no as I think you would have put that in.

I am not at all bothered by this. Of course not perfect but also not an issue. They are going to be just fine.
 
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Sorry, I did not see these updates. :/ So please don't forget to read the prior post before this.

"Quick update that Hawthorne hid almost the entire rest of the evening (3 hours). All the usual treats were of no interest...." - Hmmmmm, that is strange. Did not expect that. Maybe he just didn't want to go into the french door room?

"I was able to eventually get him to emerge about 1 foot from the sofa to have some salmon and then I grabbed him and put him away in the French door room so Florie could come out. He was not happy with me." - No, I expect he wouldn't be happy. IF there is a next time jsut let him be and hang out with Florie in her room. It is fine if she doesn't come out for extenuating circumstances. But the way ti was is fine, no issue.

"Once in the room, he ate his treat and then went to hide under the bed." - Awwwwwwww. I wonder why he hide again? LOVE that he ate his treat though. Maybe he hid because he wasn't happy about being put in there? Why do you think?

"The two could be unrelated - he is sometimes very scared by a certain kind of toy, or today he seemed scared by the sprinkler outside, so it's possible it was that and not Florie. I don't know. " - Ahhhhhhhh, ok. Yes, I don't get a sense it was Florie. It was something else, could be those.

"Aaaaanddddd..final morning update. We were able to do a treat session last night - it went the same;" - Great!!! Where did you do it?

" I tried to get them a bit closer and it was Hawthorne who seemed like he was a bit uncertain" - Ok, that is fine. As long as there wasn't an attack/real fight it is fine.

"- and then he went and hid again," - Hmmmm, something spooked him. :/

"and then he hid a bit this morning but that was related to a thunderstorm we were having." - Makes sense.

" He did eat a small amount of breakfast near the gate with Florie, but just a little bit. " - OK, he might not have been hungry. And uncertainty can cause that as well. I am not worried.

"He seems to be out now and grooming. We are playing 'cat anxiety' music from Spotify throughout the house for calming. :)" - Great

"Florie seems totally fine, hahah." Perfect.

I am convinced it was not Florie causing his change in behavior.

"Sorry for all of these miniscule updates." - Oh my, these are important. Let me decide whether it is "miniscule". :)

" I have to just let the week play out and see how we do." - They are going to be fine. I see no reason they will not be.

"I'll keep trying to play with Hawthorne and keep his confidence up. " - Sounds good. I think he s doing fine. Something caused this blip and I think it is just a blip (and not related to Florie).

Did Florie attack Hawthorne at all? I am assuming no as I think you would have put that in.

I am not at all bothered by this. Of course not perfect but also not an issue. They are going to be just fine.
I can tell you've seen the really terrible cat introductions when the cats want to kill each other, because you're always so much more positive than me! I was like, "oh no, she's still scared of him, why is he hiding now, is this really going to work out?" but that's my worry side coming out. :) By now, I'm sure you have gleaned that I worry about this whole process, hahaha.

But, I wanted to quickly answer the couple of questions you'd posed above. :)

Yesterday, after their meal together, yes, his body language going towards where she was had more of the 'scurry/quick' movement that signals his desire to chase. I suppose it could have been that he was a bit afraid and just wanted to quickly get to his water? I don't know. And yes, we both sort of panicked, haha. That's true. I don't know if he even saw her run downstairs to the basement. So I'm not sure what caused the hiding. He might have been worried she was somewhere he didn't know about. We'll see how he does tonight.

Florie didn't attack Hawthorne, no. She mostly seemed to want to avoid him and get out of the room. I'm glad we handled that part ok (my partner going downstairs to be with her). Should we close the basement door next time, or keep that as an out for her?

We did the treat session last night in the hallway space, same as usual (like the video). I'm trying to move more into the main room so that Florie comes out further and before they know it, they're in the main space together.

Honestly, your positivity is so helpful to me! Thank you again.

Also I loved your comment about Hawthorne doing the hunt, capture, kill, eat with the treats! They both LOVE this as a game. And I love learning about their behaviours and how they're having fun. :)
 
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Also one last question! Right now Florie is in her room until about 8:30 am (so overnight and then a bit after breakfast until she gets to come out) and then in the evening from 6 to 8 or so. In the afternoon, she goes into the French door room (where Hawthorne spends his time when he's not out) and we now leave the gate up but door open.

When she goes into HER room though, I close her door. Should I be trying to do gate up, door open for those times too (i.e. 7-8:30am; and then 6-8 pm)? That would mean ALL of their time now except the night would be only through the gate, no closed doors (except for face-to-face, of course).
 

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I can tell you've seen the really terrible cat introductions when the cats want to kill each other, because you're always so much more positive than me! I was like, "oh no, she's still scared of him, why is he hiding now, is this really going to work out?" but that's my worry side coming out. :) By now, I'm sure you have gleaned that I worry about this whole process, hahaha.

But, I wanted to quickly answer the couple of questions you'd posed above. :)

Yesterday, after their meal together, yes, his body language going towards where she was had more of the 'scurry/quick' movement that signals his desire to chase. I suppose it could have been that he was a bit afraid and just wanted to quickly get to his water? I don't know. And yes, we both sort of panicked, haha. That's true. I don't know if he even saw her run downstairs to the basement. So I'm not sure what caused the hiding. He might have been worried she was somewhere he didn't know about. We'll see how he does tonight.

Florie didn't attack Hawthorne, no. She mostly seemed to want to avoid him and get out of the room. I'm glad we handled that part ok (my partner going downstairs to be with her). Should we close the basement door next time, or keep that as an out for her?

We did the treat session last night in the hallway space, same as usual (like the video). I'm trying to move more into the main room so that Florie comes out further and before they know it, they're in the main space together.

Honestly, your positivity is so helpful to me! Thank you again.

Also I loved your comment about Hawthorne doing the hunt, capture, kill, eat with the treats! They both LOVE this as a game. And I love learning about their behaviours and how they're having fun. :)
"I can tell you've seen the really terrible cat introductions when the cats want to kill each other," - Well, yes, I have seen terrible ones BUT it is more of a general picture - meaning when it is not good (if that makes sense). SO they could be going terrible and fighting bad BUT not want to kill each other BUT still have real issues. So it is poor wording on my part really. :/

" because you're always so much more positive than me!" - Well, I think that is because of the nuance in cat intros. For newbies it is hard to see whereas if you have done so many you just kinda know when there are issues and when there aren't.

" I was like, "oh no, she's still scared of him, why is he hiding now, is this really going to work out?" but that's my worry side coming out. :) " - Which is normal and common. She is cautious and not fully there but I am not sure she really is scared because if she was she would never walk towards him, eat with him there, etc.

"By now, I'm sure you have gleaned that I worry about this whole process, hahaha." - Which is normal. Because you love them and want what is best for them. I wish I could zap you with the experiences I have had and then you could understand (at the end of this you will understand though so that is good).

"But, I wanted to quickly answer the couple of questions you'd posed above. :)" - Great

"Yesterday, after their meal together, yes, his body language going towards where she was had more of the 'scurry/quick' movement that signals his desire to chase." - Ok, were his ears back, tail big, etc? Scurry quick in isolation is not all that worrying. Could be play without other supporting body language..

" I suppose it could have been that he was a bit afraid and just wanted to quickly get to his water?" - Yes, he could have wanted to scoot by. Or have some fun. IF it was something serious it would have been pretty noticeable.

" I don't know. And yes, we both sort of panicked, haha. That's true." - Yes, I see it all the time. :) It is normal. And it was not a big deal. In time you will trust more and the panic will lessen. BUT again, because you love and want the best we do panic. The key is to read their body language and sense when it is an issue and when it is just more mischief (or nothing).

"I don't know if he even saw her run downstairs to the basement." - Ok, he may have heard her scurry.

" So I'm not sure what caused the hiding. He might have been worried she was somewhere he didn't know about. We'll see how he does tonight." - Could be but I don't get a sense he is that afraid of her. But I could be wrong. I think it was something else.

"Florie didn't attack Hawthorne, no." - Yes, I thought so but wanted confirmation.

" She mostly seemed to want to avoid him and get out of the room." - Ok though I am not sure about getting out since she could have really, correct? To her room.

" I'm glad we handled that part ok (my partner going downstairs to be with her)." - Perfect!!!

"Should we close the basement door next time, or keep that as an out for her?" - Either one. Just do what makes you feel best and if she wants out then allow her to with some "protection" - walking next to her.

"We did the treat session last night in the hallway space, same as usual (like the video)." - Ok, good.

" I'm trying to move more into the main room so that Florie comes out further and before they know it, they're in the main space together." - Perfect.

"Honestly, your positivity is so helpful to me! Thank you again." - You are welcome but again the positivity is coming from the cats I am just relaying it.

"Also I loved your comment about Hawthorne doing the hunt, capture, kill, eat with the treats! They both LOVE this as a game." - Absolutely. This is his play. His toy is the treat. So he is playing. I love how he does it. He LOVES it!!! Which is great and I think is a big reason why he is more confident.

It is interesting because I try to avoid fast movements in intros (those hunting movements) because t can trigger a response from the other cat. Hawthorne and Florie have no hunting response to the other cat. It is fantastic!! That is a real positive in their relationship. IF they didn't trust each other, respect each other, accept each other those fast movements would trigger a response in the other cat. Another good example as to why I am so positive with where they are at.

"And I love learning about their behaviours and how they're having fun. :) " - It is fascinating. I learn almost every day from cats. I thought I have seen it all and cats surprise me often. It is fantastic!!

"Also one last question! Right now Florie is in her room until about 8:30 am (so overnight and then a bit after breakfast until she gets to come out) and then in the evening from 6 to 8 or so. In the afternoon, she goes into the French door room (where Hawthorne spends his time when he's not out)" - Great

" and we now leave the gate up but door open." - LOVE this!!! So your trust is building as well. :)

"When she goes into HER room though, I close her door. Should I be trying to do gate up, door open for those times too (i.e. 7-8:30am; and then 6-8 pm)?" - I would just watch how they do but I suspect they will do fine (she may even try to jump it).

"That would mean ALL of their time now except the night would be only through the gate, no closed doors (except for face-to-face, of course). " - I think that would be great. If she is struggling with it in her room then just change it but I think it should be fine fairly soon if not right off the bat.

I think the cats are bringing the humans more confidence ;) LOVE that!!! :)
 
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"I can tell you've seen the really terrible cat introductions when the cats want to kill each other," - Well, yes, I have seen terrible ones BUT it is more of a general picture - meaning when it is not good (if that makes sense). SO they could be going terrible and fighting bad BUT not want to kill each other BUT still have real issues. So it is poor wording on my part really. :/

" because you're always so much more positive than me!" - Well, I think that is because of the nuance in cat intros. For newbies it is hard to see whereas if you have done so many you just kinda know when there are issues and when there aren't.

" I was like, "oh no, she's still scared of him, why is he hiding now, is this really going to work out?" but that's my worry side coming out. :) " - Which is normal and common. She is cautious and not fully there but I am not sure she really is scared because if she was she would never walk towards him, eat with him there, etc.

"By now, I'm sure you have gleaned that I worry about this whole process, hahaha." - Which is normal. Because you love them and want what is best for them. I wish I could zap you with the experiences I have had and then you could understand (at the end of this you will understand though so that is good).

"But, I wanted to quickly answer the couple of questions you'd posed above. :)" - Great

"Yesterday, after their meal together, yes, his body language going towards where she was had more of the 'scurry/quick' movement that signals his desire to chase." - Ok, were his ears back, tail big, etc? Scurry quick in isolation is not all that worrying. Could be play without other supporting body language..

" I suppose it could have been that he was a bit afraid and just wanted to quickly get to his water?" - Yes, he could have wanted to scoot by. Or have some fun. IF it was something serious it would have been pretty noticeable.

" I don't know. And yes, we both sort of panicked, haha. That's true." - Yes, I see it all the time. :) It is normal. And it was not a big deal. In time you will trust more and the panic will lessen. BUT again, because you love and want the best we do panic. The key is to read their body language and sense when it is an issue and when it is just more mischief (or nothing).

"I don't know if he even saw her run downstairs to the basement." - Ok, he may have heard her scurry.

" So I'm not sure what caused the hiding. He might have been worried she was somewhere he didn't know about. We'll see how he does tonight." - Could be but I don't get a sense he is that afraid of her. But I could be wrong. I think it was something else.

"Florie didn't attack Hawthorne, no." - Yes, I thought so but wanted confirmation.

" She mostly seemed to want to avoid him and get out of the room." - Ok though I am not sure about getting out since she could have really, correct? To her room.

" I'm glad we handled that part ok (my partner going downstairs to be with her)." - Perfect!!!

"Should we close the basement door next time, or keep that as an out for her?" - Either one. Just do what makes you feel best and if she wants out then allow her to with some "protection" - walking next to her.

"We did the treat session last night in the hallway space, same as usual (like the video)." - Ok, good.

" I'm trying to move more into the main room so that Florie comes out further and before they know it, they're in the main space together." - Perfect.

"Honestly, your positivity is so helpful to me! Thank you again." - You are welcome but again the positivity is coming from the cats I am just relaying it.

"Also I loved your comment about Hawthorne doing the hunt, capture, kill, eat with the treats! They both LOVE this as a game." - Absolutely. This is his play. His toy is the treat. So he is playing. I love how he does it. He LOVES it!!! Which is great and I think is a big reason why he is more confident.

It is interesting because I try to avoid fast movements in intros (those hunting movements) because t can trigger a response from the other cat. Hawthorne and Florie have no hunting response to the other cat. It is fantastic!! That is a real positive in their relationship. IF they didn't trust each other, respect each other, accept each other those fast movements would trigger a response in the other cat. Another good example as to why I am so positive with where they are at.

"And I love learning about their behaviours and how they're having fun. :) " - It is fascinating. I learn almost every day from cats. I thought I have seen it all and cats surprise me often. It is fantastic!!

"Also one last question! Right now Florie is in her room until about 8:30 am (so overnight and then a bit after breakfast until she gets to come out) and then in the evening from 6 to 8 or so. In the afternoon, she goes into the French door room (where Hawthorne spends his time when he's not out)" - Great

" and we now leave the gate up but door open." - LOVE this!!! So your trust is building as well. :)

"When she goes into HER room though, I close her door. Should I be trying to do gate up, door open for those times too (i.e. 7-8:30am; and then 6-8 pm)?" - I would just watch how they do but I suspect they will do fine (she may even try to jump it).

"That would mean ALL of their time now except the night would be only through the gate, no closed doors (except for face-to-face, of course). " - I think that would be great. If she is struggling with it in her room then just change it but I think it should be fine fairly soon if not right off the bat.

I think the cats are bringing the humans more confidence ;) LOVE that!!! :)
Hi C calicosrspecial ! Hope you are having a good week!

We have had two evening treat sessions since we last spoke, and both have been good. Monday night she almost walked up behind him. I thought she was going to walk around him to come to my other side. He was finishing his paste and she was like, where is my greenie treat? And then last night she chased a greenie all the way around the kitchen table and got one stuck under the piano and Hawthorne didn't really pay her any attention as she sat there and tried to fish it out. Granted, he kind of tucks himself where he feels safe - kind of around the kitchen island - so I'm not sure he can see everything she does. If I try to draw him out, he will just watch the treat and hold back. But nevertheless - he leaves her be. In that situation, she seems more confident. Although, of course, she still growls at times.

We also did supper face-to-face last night. They both ate their meals, and then she kind of walked off behind the kitchen island and stretched (so moving out of Hawthorne's sight) and then she walked downstairs. So, she still left the room but she walked and didn't run. And Hawthorne seemed fine after. He just went about his business. According to my partner, who went downstairs with Florie (and then closed the door), she took a long nap on the downstairs sofa. So that was that.

Should I be closing the basement door so that she HAS to stay upstairs, or maybe for now leave her that exit option until she feels more comfortable?

I also tried leaving her door open when I put her away for the evening (gate up) but she just sat at the gate, pawing to come out, and trying to stick her head through the bars. Hawthorne didn't seem to notice or hear. He was napping elsewhere. So I closed the door for my own peace of mind - sometimes it's nice to have a few minutes to eat my supper without monitoring any gates. :)

So that's where we are. She still crouches or lies outside his gate in the morning and growls, and then growls loudly/hisses if she feels he is getting too worked up/yowly about wanting out. Then he goes to take a nap, and she goes to take a nap, and it's quiet again for a bit.

He still occasionally wants to paw through the gate or gently charge the gate when SHE is in the room (and sitting by the gate) - it's just too tempting. Otherwise he looks in and maybe chirps (if he sees her sleeping on the bed) and then goes about his business.

We'll keep doing supper together and treat times. Is there anything else I should or could be doing to help keep supporting them in a forward direction? Should we be trying to have longer interactions, without treats, and just see what happens?
 

calicosrspecial

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Hi C calicosrspecial ! Hope you are having a good week!

We have had two evening treat sessions since we last spoke, and both have been good. Monday night she almost walked up behind him. I thought she was going to walk around him to come to my other side. He was finishing his paste and she was like, where is my greenie treat? And then last night she chased a greenie all the way around the kitchen table and got one stuck under the piano and Hawthorne didn't really pay her any attention as she sat there and tried to fish it out. Granted, he kind of tucks himself where he feels safe - kind of around the kitchen island - so I'm not sure he can see everything she does. If I try to draw him out, he will just watch the treat and hold back. But nevertheless - he leaves her be. In that situation, she seems more confident. Although, of course, she still growls at times.

We also did supper face-to-face last night. They both ate their meals, and then she kind of walked off behind the kitchen island and stretched (so moving out of Hawthorne's sight) and then she walked downstairs. So, she still left the room but she walked and didn't run. And Hawthorne seemed fine after. He just went about his business. According to my partner, who went downstairs with Florie (and then closed the door), she took a long nap on the downstairs sofa. So that was that.

Should I be closing the basement door so that she HAS to stay upstairs, or maybe for now leave her that exit option until she feels more comfortable?

I also tried leaving her door open when I put her away for the evening (gate up) but she just sat at the gate, pawing to come out, and trying to stick her head through the bars. Hawthorne didn't seem to notice or hear. He was napping elsewhere. So I closed the door for my own peace of mind - sometimes it's nice to have a few minutes to eat my supper without monitoring any gates. :)

So that's where we are. She still crouches or lies outside his gate in the morning and growls, and then growls loudly/hisses if she feels he is getting too worked up/yowly about wanting out. Then he goes to take a nap, and she goes to take a nap, and it's quiet again for a bit.

He still occasionally wants to paw through the gate or gently charge the gate when SHE is in the room (and sitting by the gate) - it's just too tempting. Otherwise he looks in and maybe chirps (if he sees her sleeping on the bed) and then goes about his business.

We'll keep doing supper together and treat times. Is there anything else I should or could be doing to help keep supporting them in a forward direction? Should we be trying to have longer interactions, without treats, and just see what happens?
"Hi C calicosrspecial C calicosrspecial ! Hope you are having a good week!" - Hi, thank you so far yes. :)

"We have had two evening treat sessions since we last spoke, and both have been good." - Great

" Monday night she almost walked up behind him. I thought she was going to walk around him to come to my other side. He was finishing his paste and she was like, where is my greenie treat?" - :yess: LOVE this not only for her feeling comfortable to walk to him but that he didn't react.

" And then last night she chased a greenie all the way around the kitchen table and got one stuck under the piano and Hawthorne didn't really pay her any attention as she sat there and tried to fish it out. " - :yess: EXACTLY what we want to see. :)

"Granted, he kind of tucks himself where he feels safe - kind of around the kitchen island - so I'm not sure he can see everything she does." - That is fine. He knows what is going on and she is not threatening him and he isn't threatening her.

"If I try to draw him out, he will just watch the treat and hold back." - That is fine. As long as they aren't attacking each other it is great.

"But nevertheless - he leaves her be." - EXACTLY!!!! :)

" In that situation, she seems more confident." - And that is how it builds. Positive encounters build trust.

"Although, of course, she still growls at times." - Yes but again if that is all that happens it is fine and not an issue.

"We also did supper face-to-face last night. " - Great

"They both ate their meals, and then she kind of walked off behind the kitchen island and stretched (so moving out of Hawthorne's sight) and then she walked downstairs." - LOVE this. THe stretch is a sign of confidence, trust. AMAZINGLY bug deal. A great sign.

"So, she still left the room but she walked and didn't run." - Perfect!!! EXACTLY what we want to see.

" And Hawthorne seemed fine after. He just went about his business." - Terrific!!!

I think we have our watershed moment. :)

" According to my partner, who went downstairs with Florie (and then closed the door), she took a long nap on the downstairs sofa. So that was that." - Perfect!!

"Should I be closing the basement door so that she HAS to stay upstairs, or maybe for now leave her that exit option until she feels more comfortable?" - I would leave it open. It sounds like it went perfectly!!!

"I also tried leaving her door open when I put her away for the evening (gate up) but she just sat at the gate, pawing to come out, and trying to stick her head through the bars." - Awwwwwwwww, ok, she is feeling confident. She would not want to be coming out if she wasn't feeling good. :)

"Hawthorne didn't seem to notice or hear." - Ok. THAT is great!!! A sign of acceptance.

"He was napping elsewhere." - Perfect. He was trusting, relaxed. Perfect!!

" So I closed the door for my own peace of mind - sometimes it's nice to have a few minutes to eat my supper without monitoring any gates. :) " - Hahahahaha, yep.

"So that's where we are. She still crouches or lies outside his gate in the morning and growls, and then growls loudly/hisses if she feels he is getting too worked up/yowly about wanting out. " - Ok, that is fine. It might be a bit of a game. I suspect it will not be long until the door will be open full time.

"Then he goes to take a nap, and she goes to take a nap, and it's quiet again for a bit." - Perfect.

"He still occasionally wants to paw through the gate or gently charge the gate when SHE is in the room (and sitting by the gate) - it's just too tempting. " - Yes, probably a bit of play.

"Otherwise he looks in and maybe chirps (if he sees her sleeping on the bed) and then goes about his business." - Awwwww, how sweet.

"We'll keep doing supper together and treat times." - Great

" Is there anything else I should or could be doing to help keep supporting them in a forward direction? " - Just keep extending the time together.

"Should we be trying to have longer interactions, without treats, and just see what happens? " - Yes, longer interactions, hanging out, distract as needed.

But if we get a few more interactions like we had the last 2 nights I think they are pretty much there. I think we had the "watershed" moment. A few more of those and I think we can open gates, open doors, etc with proper supervision. But I think we have that acceptance. We might have a chase and we'll have to reassure but I think we have it. :)

I kinda have to laugh. You say those sessions/interactions were "good". I think they were perfect!!! :) I could not have asked for anything more. :) GREAT JOB!!!! :clap2:
 
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"Hi C calicosrspecial C calicosrspecial ! Hope you are having a good week!" - Hi, thank you so far yes. :)

"We have had two evening treat sessions since we last spoke, and both have been good." - Great

" Monday night she almost walked up behind him. I thought she was going to walk around him to come to my other side. He was finishing his paste and she was like, where is my greenie treat?" - :yess: LOVE this not only for her feeling comfortable to walk to him but that he didn't react.

" And then last night she chased a greenie all the way around the kitchen table and got one stuck under the piano and Hawthorne didn't really pay her any attention as she sat there and tried to fish it out. " - :yess: EXACTLY what we want to see. :)

"Granted, he kind of tucks himself where he feels safe - kind of around the kitchen island - so I'm not sure he can see everything she does." - That is fine. He knows what is going on and she is not threatening him and he isn't threatening her.

"If I try to draw him out, he will just watch the treat and hold back." - That is fine. As long as they aren't attacking each other it is great.

"But nevertheless - he leaves her be." - EXACTLY!!!! :)

" In that situation, she seems more confident." - And that is how it builds. Positive encounters build trust.

"Although, of course, she still growls at times." - Yes but again if that is all that happens it is fine and not an issue.

"We also did supper face-to-face last night. " - Great

"They both ate their meals, and then she kind of walked off behind the kitchen island and stretched (so moving out of Hawthorne's sight) and then she walked downstairs." - LOVE this. THe stretch is a sign of confidence, trust. AMAZINGLY bug deal. A great sign.

"So, she still left the room but she walked and didn't run." - Perfect!!! EXACTLY what we want to see.

" And Hawthorne seemed fine after. He just went about his business." - Terrific!!!

I think we have our watershed moment. :)

" According to my partner, who went downstairs with Florie (and then closed the door), she took a long nap on the downstairs sofa. So that was that." - Perfect!!

"Should I be closing the basement door so that she HAS to stay upstairs, or maybe for now leave her that exit option until she feels more comfortable?" - I would leave it open. It sounds like it went perfectly!!!

"I also tried leaving her door open when I put her away for the evening (gate up) but she just sat at the gate, pawing to come out, and trying to stick her head through the bars." - Awwwwwwwww, ok, she is feeling confident. She would not want to be coming out if she wasn't feeling good. :)

"Hawthorne didn't seem to notice or hear." - Ok. THAT is great!!! A sign of acceptance.

"He was napping elsewhere." - Perfect. He was trusting, relaxed. Perfect!!

" So I closed the door for my own peace of mind - sometimes it's nice to have a few minutes to eat my supper without monitoring any gates. :) " - Hahahahaha, yep.

"So that's where we are. She still crouches or lies outside his gate in the morning and growls, and then growls loudly/hisses if she feels he is getting too worked up/yowly about wanting out. " - Ok, that is fine. It might be a bit of a game. I suspect it will not be long until the door will be open full time.

"Then he goes to take a nap, and she goes to take a nap, and it's quiet again for a bit." - Perfect.

"He still occasionally wants to paw through the gate or gently charge the gate when SHE is in the room (and sitting by the gate) - it's just too tempting. " - Yes, probably a bit of play.

"Otherwise he looks in and maybe chirps (if he sees her sleeping on the bed) and then goes about his business." - Awwwww, how sweet.

"We'll keep doing supper together and treat times." - Great

" Is there anything else I should or could be doing to help keep supporting them in a forward direction? " - Just keep extending the time together.

"Should we be trying to have longer interactions, without treats, and just see what happens? " - Yes, longer interactions, hanging out, distract as needed.

But if we get a few more interactions like we had the last 2 nights I think they are pretty much there. I think we had the "watershed" moment. A few more of those and I think we can open gates, open doors, etc with proper supervision. But I think we have that acceptance. We might have a chase and we'll have to reassure but I think we have it. :)

I kinda have to laugh. You say those sessions/interactions were "good". I think they were perfect!!! :) I could not have asked for anything more. :) GREAT JOB!!!! :clap2:
Thanks as always for your enthusiasm and support! I'm very happy we're continuing to move in the right direction.

I think I still have these worries because their introduction doesn't have the hallmarks of friendliness that I read about in the articles online - i.e. the absence of hissing/growling, touching noses as a greeting, etc. But maybe I can still hope for that over time!! If they touch noses in the future I'll break open a bottle of champagne hahah! :)

I thought the growling at the gate would eventually go away but you're right, it might be a game of sorts. And I guess if they aren't lunging at each other and trying to fight THROUGH the gate, then a little growling and watching might be ok.
 

calicosrspecial

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Thanks as always for your enthusiasm and support! I'm very happy we're continuing to move in the right direction.

I think I still have these worries because their introduction doesn't have the hallmarks of friendliness that I read about in the articles online - i.e. the absence of hissing/growling, touching noses as a greeting, etc. But maybe I can still hope for that over time!! If they touch noses in the future I'll break open a bottle of champagne hahah! :)

I thought the growling at the gate would eventually go away but you're right, it might be a game of sorts. And I guess if they aren't lunging at each other and trying to fight THROUGH the gate, then a little growling and watching might be ok.
"Thanks as always for your enthusiasm and support!" - I am only enthusiastic because of the results. We are only here because of your hard work so THANK YOU for getting them here!!

" I'm very happy we're continuing to move in the right direction." - You are so reserved. :) I am like smiling, and bouncing around (as well as I can nowadays) with reading this update!! :)

"I think I still have these worries because their introduction doesn't have the hallmarks of friendliness that I read about in the articles online - i.e. the absence of hissing/growling, touching noses as a greeting, etc." - Hmmmmmmmm, not sure who is requiring those for success. :/ Is there a fair amount of hissing? Growling is just her AND he is accepting it and understands it and respects it. Touching noses. well, I have had a lot of cats that love each other and have accepted each other (ie successfully intro'd) that have never touched noses so.............................

"But maybe I can still hope for that over time!! " - Sure. My hope is that cats can be happy living together. If they cuddle, etc even better. But some cats are cat cats and some cats are human cats and more loners. We just have to figure out what kind of cat each one is and accept it. BUT our main goal is they are happy.

"If they touch noses in the future I'll break open a bottle of champagne hahah! :) " - SOUNDS GREAT!!!! :)

"I thought the growling at the gate would eventually go away but you're right, it might be a game of sorts." - Yes AND I think it is just her. Some cats are like that. I think he has accepted her growling and realizes it is nothing (otherwise he would be responding which he isn't).

"And I guess if they aren't lunging at each other and trying to fight THROUGH the gate, then a little growling and watching might be ok." - EXACTLY. Growling alone is really nothing. Only when it is supported by something negative does it mean something AND seeing the other cat responds tells us what they think of it (which is most important since they speak cat).

She seems to be doing great, feeling confident and comfortable. He might still need a bit more trust BUT she isn't going to attack him. So though there may be some bumps I don't see anything serious. I think we have had that moment, where they are basically intro'd. Sure we have a bit more work/confirmation but they are well past any risk point. :) I am ecstatic!!! :cheerleader: :hyper:
 
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"Thanks as always for your enthusiasm and support!" - I am only enthusiastic because of the results. We are only here because of your hard work so THANK YOU for getting them here!!

" I'm very happy we're continuing to move in the right direction." - You are so reserved. :) I am like smiling, and bouncing around (as well as I can nowadays) with reading this update!! :)

"I think I still have these worries because their introduction doesn't have the hallmarks of friendliness that I read about in the articles online - i.e. the absence of hissing/growling, touching noses as a greeting, etc." - Hmmmmmmmm, not sure who is requiring those for success. :/ Is there a fair amount of hissing? Growling is just her AND he is accepting it and understands it and respects it. Touching noses. well, I have had a lot of cats that love each other and have accepted each other (ie successfully intro'd) that have never touched noses so.............................

"But maybe I can still hope for that over time!! " - Sure. My hope is that cats can be happy living together. If they cuddle, etc even better. But some cats are cat cats and some cats are human cats and more loners. We just have to figure out what kind of cat each one is and accept it. BUT our main goal is they are happy.

"If they touch noses in the future I'll break open a bottle of champagne hahah! :) " - SOUNDS GREAT!!!! :)

"I thought the growling at the gate would eventually go away but you're right, it might be a game of sorts." - Yes AND I think it is just her. Some cats are like that. I think he has accepted her growling and realizes it is nothing (otherwise he would be responding which he isn't).

"And I guess if they aren't lunging at each other and trying to fight THROUGH the gate, then a little growling and watching might be ok." - EXACTLY. Growling alone is really nothing. Only when it is supported by something negative does it mean something AND seeing the other cat responds tells us what they think of it (which is most important since they speak cat).

She seems to be doing great, feeling confident and comfortable. He might still need a bit more trust BUT she isn't going to attack him. So though there may be some bumps I don't see anything serious. I think we have had that moment, where they are basically intro'd. Sure we have a bit more work/confirmation but they are well past any risk point. :) I am ecstatic!!! :cheerleader: :hyper:
Hello there! I wanted to provide another quick update! We continue to make small but noticeable progress. Wednesday evening we did supper and instead of walking directly downstairs, Florie paused at the top of the stairs for a few moments, then walked downstairs. Then last night after eating (they both seem to eat just fine - other than a few glances) she walked to the top of the basement stairs and sat there. Hawthorne moved into the living room and she watched him for about 10 seconds and then she ran downstairs. So that means the first evening after supper she ran downstairs, the second evening she walked downstairs, the third evening she paused at the top of the stairs, and the fourth evening she briefly sat there. So, incremental confidence. I'll keep the basement door open to give her that option and let her decide when she wants to stay upstairs.

Last evening, after she went downstairs, Hawthorne looked like he wanted to follow her down there. There was no running or quick movements - he just started walking to the stairs in a direct way. I think he was potentially just curious - to see where she'd gone. But, I did close the door and kept him upstairs with me. My partner went downstairs and watched TV and said Florie took another nap on the sofa.

Then last night, during the before bed treat session, she walked down the hallway, came right over and sniffed Hawthorne's tail! I was worried about what he might do but he was still focused on his paste treat, so he glanced behind at her but then kept eating his treat. She of course started growling, but then I gave her a treat and we were back to the usual routine. :) But I was proud of him for being ok with her showing up right behind him. He didn't react at all!

This weekend is my stepkids, so the routine will be briefly paused, but we'll be back to it on Sunday. I figure I'll keep going like this for a few more days, and then will see where we're at. Maybe an evening will come where she stays upstairs! Who knows.

I still worry about what happens when they are in the room together WITHOUT treats, but I guess the idea is that slowly but surely, they get used to seeing other and then the day comes where even if there aren't any treats, they just go about their routines and don't care about the other being there.
 

calicosrspecial

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Hello there! I wanted to provide another quick update! We continue to make small but noticeable progress. Wednesday evening we did supper and instead of walking directly downstairs, Florie paused at the top of the stairs for a few moments, then walked downstairs. Then last night after eating (they both seem to eat just fine - other than a few glances) she walked to the top of the basement stairs and sat there. Hawthorne moved into the living room and she watched him for about 10 seconds and then she ran downstairs. So that means the first evening after supper she ran downstairs, the second evening she walked downstairs, the third evening she paused at the top of the stairs, and the fourth evening she briefly sat there. So, incremental confidence. I'll keep the basement door open to give her that option and let her decide when she wants to stay upstairs.

Last evening, after she went downstairs, Hawthorne looked like he wanted to follow her down there. There was no running or quick movements - he just started walking to the stairs in a direct way. I think he was potentially just curious - to see where she'd gone. But, I did close the door and kept him upstairs with me. My partner went downstairs and watched TV and said Florie took another nap on the sofa.

Then last night, during the before bed treat session, she walked down the hallway, came right over and sniffed Hawthorne's tail! I was worried about what he might do but he was still focused on his paste treat, so he glanced behind at her but then kept eating his treat. She of course started growling, but then I gave her a treat and we were back to the usual routine. :) But I was proud of him for being ok with her showing up right behind him. He didn't react at all!

This weekend is my stepkids, so the routine will be briefly paused, but we'll be back to it on Sunday. I figure I'll keep going like this for a few more days, and then will see where we're at. Maybe an evening will come where she stays upstairs! Who knows.

I still worry about what happens when they are in the room together WITHOUT treats, but I guess the idea is that slowly but surely, they get used to seeing other and then the day comes where even if there aren't any treats, they just go about their routines and don't care about the other being there.
"Hello there! I wanted to provide another quick update! We continue to make small but noticeable progress." - Hi, great.

" Wednesday evening we did supper and instead of walking directly downstairs, Florie paused at the top of the stairs for a few moments, then walked downstairs." - Perfect

" Then last night after eating (they both seem to eat just fine - other than a few glances) she walked to the top of the basement stairs and sat there. Hawthorne moved into the living room and she watched him for about 10 seconds" - Perfect

" and then she ran downstairs." - I wonder why she ran? Did he make a movement towards her? Some cats actually like to be chased (as a way of play). I wonder if that is what was going on.

"So that means the first evening after supper she ran downstairs, the second evening she walked downstairs, the third evening she paused at the top of the stairs, and the fourth evening she briefly sat there. So, incremental confidence." - Sounds like she is doing great.

" I'll keep the basement door open to give her that option and let her decide when she wants to stay upstairs." - Exactly. It sounds like going downstairs is becoming part of the routine.

"Last evening, after she went downstairs, Hawthorne looked like he wanted to follow her down there. There was no running or quick movements - he just started walking to the stairs in a direct way. I think he was potentially just curious - to see where she'd gone." - Perfect. And yes, that is total curiosity. Terrific.

" But, I did close the door and kept him upstairs with me." - Ok, that is fine.

" My partner went downstairs and watched TV and said Florie took another nap on the sofa." - Awwww, perfect.

"Then last night, during the before bed treat session, she walked down the hallway, came right over and sniffed Hawthorne's tail!" - Awwwwwwwww

" I was worried about what he might do but he was still focused on his paste treat, so he glanced behind at her but then kept eating his treat." - :yess: :clap2:

"She of course started growling," -Hahaha, yep.

" but then I gave her a treat and we were back to the usual routine. :) " - Perfect.

"But I was proud of him for being ok with her showing up right behind him. He didn't react at all!" - ABSOLUTELY!!! That tells me there is a lot of trust of her. Fantastic!!!

"This weekend is my stepkids, so the routine will be briefly paused, but we'll be back to it on Sunday. I figure I'll keep going like this for a few more days, and then will see where we're at." - Sounds great.

" Maybe an evening will come where she stays upstairs! Who knows." - Maybe though it seems like it is her routine to go downstairs. As long as she is happy.

"I still worry about what happens when they are in the room together WITHOUT treats, " - I know, that is normal.

"but I guess the idea is that slowly but surely, they get used to seeing other and then the day comes where even if there aren't any treats, they just go about their routines and don't care about the other being there." - EXACTLY!!! I think that day is close. I am not seeing (reading) anything to suggest there will be real issues. Just keep reinforcing that trust.

So overall, I think if you are not there already you are on the cusp. It sounds like they are doing great and pretty much have accepted each other. :) Keep increasing the time, monitor them. Maybe when you feel comfortable leave the office door open (no gate) when you and a cat are in there. Etc. If you are hanging out in the kitchen/open area maybe leave the french doors open. Just whatever you feel comfortable with where they can hang out, move around, etc.

Exciting!!!! GREAT work!!! :cheerleader:
 
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Furmama22

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"Hello there! I wanted to provide another quick update! We continue to make small but noticeable progress." - Hi, great.

" Wednesday evening we did supper and instead of walking directly downstairs, Florie paused at the top of the stairs for a few moments, then walked downstairs." - Perfect

" Then last night after eating (they both seem to eat just fine - other than a few glances) she walked to the top of the basement stairs and sat there. Hawthorne moved into the living room and she watched him for about 10 seconds" - Perfect

" and then she ran downstairs." - I wonder why she ran? Did he make a movement towards her? Some cats actually like to be chased (as a way of play). I wonder if that is what was going on.

"So that means the first evening after supper she ran downstairs, the second evening she walked downstairs, the third evening she paused at the top of the stairs, and the fourth evening she briefly sat there. So, incremental confidence." - Sounds like she is doing great.

" I'll keep the basement door open to give her that option and let her decide when she wants to stay upstairs." - Exactly. It sounds like going downstairs is becoming part of the routine.

"Last evening, after she went downstairs, Hawthorne looked like he wanted to follow her down there. There was no running or quick movements - he just started walking to the stairs in a direct way. I think he was potentially just curious - to see where she'd gone." - Perfect. And yes, that is total curiosity. Terrific.

" But, I did close the door and kept him upstairs with me." - Ok, that is fine.

" My partner went downstairs and watched TV and said Florie took another nap on the sofa." - Awwww, perfect.

"Then last night, during the before bed treat session, she walked down the hallway, came right over and sniffed Hawthorne's tail!" - Awwwwwwwww

" I was worried about what he might do but he was still focused on his paste treat, so he glanced behind at her but then kept eating his treat." - :yess: :clap2:

"She of course started growling," -Hahaha, yep.

" but then I gave her a treat and we were back to the usual routine. :) " - Perfect.

"But I was proud of him for being ok with her showing up right behind him. He didn't react at all!" - ABSOLUTELY!!! That tells me there is a lot of trust of her. Fantastic!!!

"This weekend is my stepkids, so the routine will be briefly paused, but we'll be back to it on Sunday. I figure I'll keep going like this for a few more days, and then will see where we're at." - Sounds great.

" Maybe an evening will come where she stays upstairs! Who knows." - Maybe though it seems like it is her routine to go downstairs. As long as she is happy.

"I still worry about what happens when they are in the room together WITHOUT treats, " - I know, that is normal.

"but I guess the idea is that slowly but surely, they get used to seeing other and then the day comes where even if there aren't any treats, they just go about their routines and don't care about the other being there." - EXACTLY!!! I think that day is close. I am not seeing (reading) anything to suggest there will be real issues. Just keep reinforcing that trust.

So overall, I think if you are not there already you are on the cusp. It sounds like they are doing great and pretty much have accepted each other. :) Keep increasing the time, monitor them. Maybe when you feel comfortable leave the office door open (no gate) when you and a cat are in there. Etc. If you are hanging out in the kitchen/open area maybe leave the french doors open. Just whatever you feel comfortable with where they can hang out, move around, etc.

Exciting!!!! GREAT work!!! :cheerleader:
Do you think that there will still be some....chases/swats/hissing etc that will inevitably happen when they are in the same room? That they'll need to work through?

There is still occasional aggression at the pet gate. Most of the time Hawthorne ignores her growling; occasionally I think he tries to reach out to grab at her (after all, she is just sitting there taunting him) and then there is a bit of snorting (on his part) and loud growling/hissing (and now, swatting) on her part. If it is indeed a game, it's a weird game! I should add, they always stop when I come into the hallway. They never do this aggressive gate fussing when I'm there; only when I'm out of view.

It'll take a little while for me to feel comfortable enough to try have them hang out together, but I'm working up to that for next weekend, maybe. I have about five days off, so a good opportunity for some supervised time together. I'm curious to see what might happen. For now, we'll keep doing supper and treats.

Having some this far, is there still a chance that he'll run and try to fight with her if she were to come out of her room while he's napping or something?
 
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calicosrspecial

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Do you think that there will still be some....chases/swats/hissing etc that will inevitably happen when they are in the same room? That they'll need to work through?

There is still occasional aggression at the pet gate. Most of the time Hawthorne ignores her growling; occasionally I think he tries to reach out to grab at her (after all, she is just sitting there taunting him) and then there is a bit of snorting (on his part) and loud growling/hissing (and now, swatting) on her part. If it is indeed a game, it's a weird game! I should add, they always stop when I come into the hallway. They never do this aggressive gate fussing when I'm there; only when I'm out of view.

It'll take a little while for me to feel comfortable enough to try have them hang out together, but I'm working up to that for next weekend, maybe. I have about five days off, so a good opportunity for some supervised time together. I'm curious to see what might happen. For now, we'll keep doing supper and treats.

Having some this far, is there still a chance that he'll run and try to fight with her if she were to come out of her room while he's napping or something?
"Do you think that there will still be some....chases/swats/hissing etc that will inevitably happen when they are in the same room?" - I think so. I would expect some of that. That is normal (at times) in healthy, fully intro'd multi-cat homes. The key is that it stops at that and there is no real lingering issues which if they are we would work to resolve.

"That they'll need to work through?" - Exactly. They need to do their part and judging by what I have seen so far they will. Of course, you will be around to referee as well (to some degree).

"There is still occasional aggression at the pet gate." - Yes. I think sometimes that is because of the separation when they do as well as they are doing in their face to face meetings.

" Most of the time Hawthorne ignores her growling;" - THAT is the great part. He understands what she is communicating.

"occasionally I think he tries to reach out to grab at her (after all, she is just sitting there taunting him)" - Yes, but I suspect that is more play or 'having fun".

" and then there is a bit of snorting (on his part)" - Yes, that makes sense. I would expect that to "defend" himself. But again, when they are together, face to face we are not seeing that.

"and loud growling/hissing (and now, swatting) on her part." - Yes, telling him not to try anything.

" If it is indeed a game, it's a weird game! " - Hahahaha, well, not to cats. ;)

"I should add, they always stop when I come into the hallway." - And that supports it is a bit of a game or having fun.

" They never do this aggressive gate fussing when I'm there; only when I'm out of view." - Yep. Happens all the time that way. I have a boy that is a bit of a brat that is exactly the same way. When my back is turned he likes to have some fun then when I walk in he is all "I am innocent of everything, it wasn't me". Hahahahaha The key is really how focused, how long lasting, and how they act after. That is how we know if it is an issue or not.

"It'll take a little while for me to feel comfortable enough to try have them hang out together," - ;) I know and that is ok. We'll have the cats bring you along. ;)

" but I'm working up to that for next weekend, maybe. " - Whenever you feel ok and confident. There is no rush. They will be just fine when you feel ready.

"I have about five days off, so a good opportunity for some supervised time together." - Great

" I'm curious to see what might happen." - :)

"For now, we'll keep doing supper and treats." - Sounds good.

"Having some this far, is there still a chance that he'll run and try to fight with her if she were to come out of her room while he's napping or something? " - Yes, possible and maybe likely if she startles him. Run, chase I should say. Real fight, I am not so sure. BUT we always have to be prepared. I just don't see the underlying conditions for a real fight BUT things can escalate. BUT I just don't think either one would want to really hurt the other one. BUT a good chase, some hissing, swatting, etc can easily happen. Just depends. I think he might bully her a bit, she might overreact a bit but I think they both know where the line is.

What I tend to do is early on just walk along, be around when they walk out etc just to give that bit of confidence/deterrent. And after a while they tend to realize the other isn't a threat and they just go "whatever". And the more confidence a cat shows the less likely they will be attacked, etc (or attack, etc).

Every day we will get more evidence so if we sense an issue we will deal with it. But everything I am reading points me to the fact they are doing great and are accepting each other wonderfully. It is hard to explain but we just know when there are real issues and when there will just be blips. I truly believe Hawthorne and Florie are at worst the "blip" scenarios.

Keep doing the great work and let me know how they are doing. Every day like the recent ones will builds trust and confidence and make the eventual "togetherness" more smooth. :)
 
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"Do you think that there will still be some....chases/swats/hissing etc that will inevitably happen when they are in the same room?" - I think so. I would expect some of that. That is normal (at times) in healthy, fully intro'd multi-cat homes. The key is that it stops at that and there is no real lingering issues which if they are we would work to resolve.

"That they'll need to work through?" - Exactly. They need to do their part and judging by what I have seen so far they will. Of course, you will be around to referee as well (to some degree).

"There is still occasional aggression at the pet gate." - Yes. I think sometimes that is because of the separation when they do as well as they are doing in their face to face meetings.

" Most of the time Hawthorne ignores her growling;" - THAT is the great part. He understands what she is communicating.

"occasionally I think he tries to reach out to grab at her (after all, she is just sitting there taunting him)" - Yes, but I suspect that is more play or 'having fun".

" and then there is a bit of snorting (on his part)" - Yes, that makes sense. I would expect that to "defend" himself. But again, when they are together, face to face we are not seeing that.

"and loud growling/hissing (and now, swatting) on her part." - Yes, telling him not to try anything.

" If it is indeed a game, it's a weird game! " - Hahahaha, well, not to cats. ;)

"I should add, they always stop when I come into the hallway." - And that supports it is a bit of a game or having fun.

" They never do this aggressive gate fussing when I'm there; only when I'm out of view." - Yep. Happens all the time that way. I have a boy that is a bit of a brat that is exactly the same way. When my back is turned he likes to have some fun then when I walk in he is all "I am innocent of everything, it wasn't me". Hahahahaha The key is really how focused, how long lasting, and how they act after. That is how we know if it is an issue or not.

"It'll take a little while for me to feel comfortable enough to try have them hang out together," - ;) I know and that is ok. We'll have the cats bring you along. ;)

" but I'm working up to that for next weekend, maybe. " - Whenever you feel ok and confident. There is no rush. They will be just fine when you feel ready.

"I have about five days off, so a good opportunity for some supervised time together." - Great

" I'm curious to see what might happen." - :)

"For now, we'll keep doing supper and treats." - Sounds good.

"Having some this far, is there still a chance that he'll run and try to fight with her if she were to come out of her room while he's napping or something? " - Yes, possible and maybe likely if she startles him. Run, chase I should say. Real fight, I am not so sure. BUT we always have to be prepared. I just don't see the underlying conditions for a real fight BUT things can escalate. BUT I just don't think either one would want to really hurt the other one. BUT a good chase, some hissing, swatting, etc can easily happen. Just depends. I think he might bully her a bit, she might overreact a bit but I think they both know where the line is.

What I tend to do is early on just walk along, be around when they walk out etc just to give that bit of confidence/deterrent. And after a while they tend to realize the other isn't a threat and they just go "whatever". And the more confidence a cat shows the less likely they will be attacked, etc (or attack, etc).

Every day we will get more evidence so if we sense an issue we will deal with it. But everything I am reading points me to the fact they are doing great and are accepting each other wonderfully. It is hard to explain but we just know when there are real issues and when there will just be blips. I truly believe Hawthorne and Florie are at worst the "blip" scenarios.

Keep doing the great work and let me know how they are doing. Every day like the recent ones will builds trust and confidence and make the eventual "togetherness" more smooth. :)
Hello there! :)

We had a treat session last night and it was interesting so I though I'd share for your thoughts. I debated having it because it's the weekend with my stepkids and Hawthorne is generally more stressed (he hides more) but I thought, we'll just try the before bed treats. Part way through, Florie kind of decided she didn't want the treats and just sat there. She also stared more at Hawthorne and growled (not unusual, but the staring and not wanting the treats is more unusual). We eventually coaxed her ALMOST back into her bedroom and then she came marching down the hallway again and went into the living room and sat there. Still growing, and not wanting treats again. So I guided Hawthorne out of the room (he was still into the treats) and then picked her up and put her back in her room.

I probably should have just let it play out, right? Hahaha, I know. I was just a bit unsure what she was doing. Sometimes she is the one who stares at Hawthorne and growls (like at the gate), while he is looking at me or looking for the treat - not paying attention to her. So is that insecurity on her part? Or aggression?

My partner said: maybe she didn't want to go back into her room, which is possible. But she usually has NO problem going back in. Then I thought maybe she didn't like the flavour of the treats (they were a different kind). Or maybe she felt my stress from the weekend.

But probably the moral of the story for last night is: cats are cats and they are sometimes unpredictable. And I don't have to worry over every small interaction (except of course, I do).

Other than a bit of hiding this morning on Hawthorne's part, all is normal this morning.
 

calicosrspecial

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Hello there! :)

We had a treat session last night and it was interesting so I though I'd share for your thoughts. I debated having it because it's the weekend with my stepkids and Hawthorne is generally more stressed (he hides more) but I thought, we'll just try the before bed treats. Part way through, Florie kind of decided she didn't want the treats and just sat there. She also stared more at Hawthorne and growled (not unusual, but the staring and not wanting the treats is more unusual). We eventually coaxed her ALMOST back into her bedroom and then she came marching down the hallway again and went into the living room and sat there. Still growing, and not wanting treats again. So I guided Hawthorne out of the room (he was still into the treats) and then picked her up and put her back in her room.

I probably should have just let it play out, right? Hahaha, I know. I was just a bit unsure what she was doing. Sometimes she is the one who stares at Hawthorne and growls (like at the gate), while he is looking at me or looking for the treat - not paying attention to her. So is that insecurity on her part? Or aggression?

My partner said: maybe she didn't want to go back into her room, which is possible. But she usually has NO problem going back in. Then I thought maybe she didn't like the flavour of the treats (they were a different kind). Or maybe she felt my stress from the weekend.

But probably the moral of the story for last night is: cats are cats and they are sometimes unpredictable. And I don't have to worry over every small interaction (except of course, I do).

Other than a bit of hiding this morning on Hawthorne's part, all is normal this morning.
"Hello there! :) " - Hello!! I wasn't expecting an update. Let's see..............................

"We had a treat session last night and it was interesting so I though I'd share for your thoughts." - Ok, great for sharing.

" I debated having it because it's the weekend with my stepkids and Hawthorne is generally more stressed (he hides more)" - Yes

" but I thought, we'll just try the before bed treats." - GREAT!!!! I LOVE that thinking.

" Part way through, Florie kind of decided she didn't want the treats and just sat there." - Hmmmmmm, ok

" She also stared more at Hawthorne" - Interesting

"and growled" - Expected

" (not unusual, but the staring and not wanting the treats is more unusual). " - Agreed.

"We eventually coaxed her ALMOST back into her bedroom" - Ok, interesting. IF she was afraid I would have thought she would have wanted to go back in the bedroom. Hmmmmmmmmmmm

"and then she came marching down the hallway again and went into the living room and sat there." - Whoa :clap2: :hyper: :yess: LOVE it!!!


"Still growing," - Expected

" and not wanting treats again." - Hmmmmmmm, ok, it happens. Her movements do not suggest it is fear.

" So I guided Hawthorne out of the room (he was still into the treats)" - Ok. Sounds like he didn't care she was around which is GREAT!!! If it isn't too wild with the children coming and going etc just try ot keep him there eating his treats instead of guiding him out.

"and then picked her up and put her back in her room." - Ok.

"I probably should have just let it play out, right? Hahaha, I know." - Hahahahaha ;) Yes BUT I know it is hard. It is ok, you did fine.

" I was just a bit unsure what she was doing." - Yes.


"Sometimes she is the one who stares at Hawthorne and growls (like at the gate), while he is looking at me or looking for the treat - not paying attention to her." - Yes
r
" So is that insecurity on her part?" - I don't think so. Maybe a warring or just her. If he is not responding then he thinks it is nothing and that is the best evidence as to how serious it is.

"Or aggression?" - Not aggression as it is not accompanied by anything else AND Hawthorne is not repsond to it which if it was aggression he would (he would either fight or run).

I think it is just her. Not really anything.

"My partner said: maybe she didn't want to go back into her room, which is possible." - I agree. Your partner has pretty good "cat sense". I am impressed and have been for a while.

"But she usually has NO problem going back in." - YES BUT she has tasted freedom and acceptance and likes it.....................

" Then I thought maybe she didn't like the flavour of the treats (they were a different kind)." - Could be. Change can make a cat not eat, etc.

"Or maybe she felt my stress from the weekend." - I don't get that sense. Not a stress reaction in my eyes.

"But probably the moral of the story for last night is: cats are cats and they are sometimes unpredictable." - YES BUT if this is the unpredictability I LOVE it!!!

"And I don't have to worry over every small interaction" - Exactly BUT I would call this extremely positive. I actually love this update. She was confident enough to come out and feel some ownership of that territory AND he didn't even care. I think it is fantastic!!!

"(except of course, I do)." - OF COURSE!!! WE ALL do!!!! :) For a while. ;)

"Other than a bit of hiding this morning on Hawthorne's part, all is normal this morning." - Great, they are just fine!!! I think you actually had another step forward with confirmation AND with the kids around it is even more positive. I think they are doing great!!! :) LOVE IT!!!

Keep up the great work!! You both have done an amazing job!!! :cheerleader::hyper::clap2:
 
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Furmama22

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"Hello there! :) " - Hello!! I wasn't expecting an update. Let's see..............................

"We had a treat session last night and it was interesting so I though I'd share for your thoughts." - Ok, great for sharing.

" I debated having it because it's the weekend with my stepkids and Hawthorne is generally more stressed (he hides more)" - Yes

" but I thought, we'll just try the before bed treats." - GREAT!!!! I LOVE that thinking.

" Part way through, Florie kind of decided she didn't want the treats and just sat there." - Hmmmmmm, ok

" She also stared more at Hawthorne" - Interesting

"and growled" - Expected

" (not unusual, but the staring and not wanting the treats is more unusual). " - Agreed.

"We eventually coaxed her ALMOST back into her bedroom" - Ok, interesting. IF she was afraid I would have thought she would have wanted to go back in the bedroom. Hmmmmmmmmmmm

"and then she came marching down the hallway again and went into the living room and sat there." - Whoa :clap2: :hyper: :yess: LOVE it!!!


"Still growing," - Expected

" and not wanting treats again." - Hmmmmmmm, ok, it happens. Her movements do not suggest it is fear.

" So I guided Hawthorne out of the room (he was still into the treats)" - Ok. Sounds like he didn't care she was around which is GREAT!!! If it isn't too wild with the children coming and going etc just try ot keep him there eating his treats instead of guiding him out.

"and then picked her up and put her back in her room." - Ok.

"I probably should have just let it play out, right? Hahaha, I know." - Hahahahaha ;) Yes BUT I know it is hard. It is ok, you did fine.

" I was just a bit unsure what she was doing." - Yes.


"Sometimes she is the one who stares at Hawthorne and growls (like at the gate), while he is looking at me or looking for the treat - not paying attention to her." - Yes
r
" So is that insecurity on her part?" - I don't think so. Maybe a warring or just her. If he is not responding then he thinks it is nothing and that is the best evidence as to how serious it is.

"Or aggression?" - Not aggression as it is not accompanied by anything else AND Hawthorne is not repsond to it which if it was aggression he would (he would either fight or run).

I think it is just her. Not really anything.

"My partner said: maybe she didn't want to go back into her room, which is possible." - I agree. Your partner has pretty good "cat sense". I am impressed and have been for a while.

"But she usually has NO problem going back in." - YES BUT she has tasted freedom and acceptance and likes it.....................

" Then I thought maybe she didn't like the flavour of the treats (they were a different kind)." - Could be. Change can make a cat not eat, etc.

"Or maybe she felt my stress from the weekend." - I don't get that sense. Not a stress reaction in my eyes.

"But probably the moral of the story for last night is: cats are cats and they are sometimes unpredictable." - YES BUT if this is the unpredictability I LOVE it!!!

"And I don't have to worry over every small interaction" - Exactly BUT I would call this extremely positive. I actually love this update. She was confident enough to come out and feel some ownership of that territory AND he didn't even care. I think it is fantastic!!!

"(except of course, I do)." - OF COURSE!!! WE ALL do!!!! :) For a while. ;)

"Other than a bit of hiding this morning on Hawthorne's part, all is normal this morning." - Great, they are just fine!!! I think you actually had another step forward with confirmation AND with the kids around it is even more positive. I think they are doing great!!! :) LOVE IT!!!

Keep up the great work!! You both have done an amazing job!!! :cheerleader::hyper::clap2:
Hello and Happy Tuesday! Here is today's update:

Bedtime treat sessions continue to go very well. Last night Florie came marching down the hallway (tail up!) and sat about two feet from Hawthorne or a little closer and just waited for her treat while he was finishing his paste. No problem from either of them. She is also growling a little less during those sessions, unless she looks up and makes eye contact. I'm wondering about maybe trying to push things a little by changing where I'm sitting. We've gotten into a bit of a pattern where Hawthorne is in the kitchen behind the island and I can't get him to come out - that's obviously where he feels comfortable. I wonder about sitting in a more open part of the room to see how they do if they don't have the kitchen island between them - go out of the comfort zone again.

They had supper together again yesterday. I tried a different set-up - Florie in the hallway closer to her room and Hawthorne in the kitchen (within view of each other). They both ate no problem and then he walked away into the living room. I was happy about that! Then he went under the sofa, which I was less happy about (it's usually his more scared/insecure place) but so it goes. She finished eating and then walked to the end of the hallway and surveyed the main room, looking for him. I could see her thinking about it, and then she trotted (not a run, but definitely faster than a walk) around the edge of the room around through the kitchen (I could see her keeping to the perimeter to feel safer) and....ran downstairs. Neither of us joined her so this time I just closed the door to the basement. When Hawthorne emerged from under the sofa about 20 minutes later and went for a drink in his room, I quickly closed the gate to keep him in and went to check on her. She was ready to come out - much less fun in the basement when nobody else is hanging with her! And then she went back in her room, I let Hawthorne out, and we continued with the evening.

So, that was a long boring story, but it brings me to my question, which is: after the meal, she seems to now want to go into the basement as a safe alternative to her bedroom. Is there a point at which I close the basement door so she has to stay upstairs? And with that, should I somehow try to prevent Hawthorne from going under the sofa? My main concern is that the sofa provides a hiding spot that allows Hawthorne to surprise her if she's in the main room. I'm trying to find a way to extend the visit but it's harder if she goes into the basement and he goes under the sofa. Although I suppose that's better than fighting! :)

And last question: My partner and I are both off Thursday. Do you think we can try a visit with them together in the afternoon, say? Do we start with treats and then put the treats away and just see what happens?
 

calicosrspecial

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Hello and Happy Tuesday! Here is today's update:

Bedtime treat sessions continue to go very well. Last night Florie came marching down the hallway (tail up!) and sat about two feet from Hawthorne or a little closer and just waited for her treat while he was finishing his paste. No problem from either of them. She is also growling a little less during those sessions, unless she looks up and makes eye contact. I'm wondering about maybe trying to push things a little by changing where I'm sitting. We've gotten into a bit of a pattern where Hawthorne is in the kitchen behind the island and I can't get him to come out - that's obviously where he feels comfortable. I wonder about sitting in a more open part of the room to see how they do if they don't have the kitchen island between them - go out of the comfort zone again.

They had supper together again yesterday. I tried a different set-up - Florie in the hallway closer to her room and Hawthorne in the kitchen (within view of each other). They both ate no problem and then he walked away into the living room. I was happy about that! Then he went under the sofa, which I was less happy about (it's usually his more scared/insecure place) but so it goes. She finished eating and then walked to the end of the hallway and surveyed the main room, looking for him. I could see her thinking about it, and then she trotted (not a run, but definitely faster than a walk) around the edge of the room around through the kitchen (I could see her keeping to the perimeter to feel safer) and....ran downstairs. Neither of us joined her so this time I just closed the door to the basement. When Hawthorne emerged from under the sofa about 20 minutes later and went for a drink in his room, I quickly closed the gate to keep him in and went to check on her. She was ready to come out - much less fun in the basement when nobody else is hanging with her! And then she went back in her room, I let Hawthorne out, and we continued with the evening.

So, that was a long boring story, but it brings me to my question, which is: after the meal, she seems to now want to go into the basement as a safe alternative to her bedroom. Is there a point at which I close the basement door so she has to stay upstairs? And with that, should I somehow try to prevent Hawthorne from going under the sofa? My main concern is that the sofa provides a hiding spot that allows Hawthorne to surprise her if she's in the main room. I'm trying to find a way to extend the visit but it's harder if she goes into the basement and he goes under the sofa. Although I suppose that's better than fighting! :)

And last question: My partner and I are both off Thursday. Do you think we can try a visit with them together in the afternoon, say? Do we start with treats and then put the treats away and just see what happens?
"Hello and Happy Tuesday! Here is today's update:" - Awwwww, happy tuesday!!!

"Bedtime treat sessions continue to go very well." - Great

" Last night Florie came marching down the hallway (tail up!) and sat about two feet from Hawthorne or a little closer and just waited for her treat while he was finishing his paste. No problem from either of them." - :yess: PERFECT!!!! EXACTLY what we want to see.

"She is also growling a little less during those sessions, unless she looks up and makes eye contact." - Great

" I'm wondering about maybe trying to push things a little by changing where I'm sitting." - Ok.

" We've gotten into a bit of a pattern where Hawthorne is in the kitchen behind the island and I can't get him to come out - that's obviously where he feels comfortable." - Cats are creatures of habit so it may be that. Given everything else if he wants to eat there that is fine.

"I wonder about sitting in a more open part of the room to see how they do if they don't have the kitchen island between them - go out of the comfort zone again." - I think that is fine. Just see how they do, watch their body language, etc. I think they are doing great so it is fine to try that.

"They had supper together again yesterday." - Perfect

" I tried a different set-up - Florie in the hallway closer to her room and Hawthorne in the kitchen (within view of each other). They both ate no problem and then he walked away into the living room. I was happy about that! " - PERFECT!!!! :)

"Then he went under the sofa, which I was less happy about (it's usually his more scared/insecure place) but so it goes." - I would have had to see it but since I am not reading anything concerning maybe it is just his routine, something he likes. IF they weren;t eating together, he was acting anxious, etc THEN going under the sofa I would be wondering but there is nothing to support that his actions are conerning.

"She finished eating and then walked to the end of the hallway and surveyed the main room, looking for him. I could see her thinking about it, and then she trotted (not a run, but definitely faster than a walk) around the edge of the room around through the kitchen (I could see her keeping to the perimeter to feel safer) and....ran downstairs." - That is fine. She sounds like she was maybe a touch cautious and it went fine (no chase, no attack). I think that is totally fine.

"Neither of us joined her so this time I just closed the door to the basement." - Ok, maybe keep it open and just keep an eye on Hawthorne next time.

"When Hawthorne emerged from under the sofa about 20 minutes later and went for a drink in his room," - Awwwww, perfect.

" I quickly closed the gate to keep him in and went to check on her." - k, maybe next time jsut leave the door open and keep an eye on them/him.

" She was ready to come out - much less fun in the basement when nobody else is hanging with her! " - EXACTLY!!! I would lvoe to have seen how they did when she reemerged.

"And then she went back in her room," - Awwwwwwwwww, perfect. How did she walk?

" I let Hawthorne out, and we continued with the evening." = Perfect.

"So, that was a long boring story," - Not boring at all and very informational. They are doing great!!!

"but it brings me to my question, which is: after the meal, she seems to now want to go into the basement as a safe alternative to her bedroom." - I think you are making an assumption it is a "safe alternative" which I am not sure is an accurate assumption. I am wondering if she just like going there (instead of back to her room). I am not at all bothered by her going down there.

" Is there a point at which I close the basement door so she has to stay upstairs?" - I don't think so. Just let her make her own choices. I actually would jsut leave the door open after she goes down there then monitor him a bit.

"And with that, should I somehow try to prevent Hawthorne from going under the sofa?" - At this point, no. Usually I like to block of hiding places but I am not sure it is really a hiding place since he seems to be doing just fine.

"My main concern is that the sofa provides a hiding spot that allows Hawthorne to surprise her if she's in the main room." - Ahhhhh, I see your concern, yes. Maybe it is more of a play/ambush location. I would just monitor him. What a stinker, cats................... :)

" I'm trying to find a way to extend the visit but it's harder if she goes into the basement and he goes under the sofa." - Yes, but the fact they can go on with their business is fine. It sounds like it is more a sign of trust and acceptance rather than avoidance (given the other interaction information).

"Although I suppose that's better than fighting! :) " - Hahahaha, YES!!!

"And last question: My partner and I are both off Thursday. Do you think we can try a visit with them together in the afternoon, say?" - ABSOLUTELY!!!

" Do we start with treats and then put the treats away and just see what happens? " - Sure. Start with treats, then hang out with them, talk, have a toy ready to distract, etc. Just keep an eye on their body language, stay calm and confident, talk lovingly to them, hang out with them, reassure, etc. There will probably be growling from her (surprise, surprise), some staring, etc but I fully expect them to be just fine. If you have to pull out the treats again that is fine. Just try not to overthink it and just go with them. Find that balance between trusting them and watching them before worrying. There is usually a lot of signs of trouble before it happens so you should have time to distract, etc.

And just enjoy them that they are at this point. Feel the pride they are doing so great. I don't see everything but I get a sense they are basically intro'd. All the signs point to them doing great. So just enjoy it. :)

I can't wait to hear how it goes. They both are fantastic cats that are doing great. They definitely want and are getting along really well!!! :)

Exciting!!! GREAT JOB!!!
 
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Furmama22

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"Hello and Happy Tuesday! Here is today's update:" - Awwwww, happy tuesday!!!

"Bedtime treat sessions continue to go very well." - Great

" Last night Florie came marching down the hallway (tail up!) and sat about two feet from Hawthorne or a little closer and just waited for her treat while he was finishing his paste. No problem from either of them." - :yess: PERFECT!!!! EXACTLY what we want to see.

"She is also growling a little less during those sessions, unless she looks up and makes eye contact." - Great

" I'm wondering about maybe trying to push things a little by changing where I'm sitting." - Ok.

" We've gotten into a bit of a pattern where Hawthorne is in the kitchen behind the island and I can't get him to come out - that's obviously where he feels comfortable." - Cats are creatures of habit so it may be that. Given everything else if he wants to eat there that is fine.

"I wonder about sitting in a more open part of the room to see how they do if they don't have the kitchen island between them - go out of the comfort zone again." - I think that is fine. Just see how they do, watch their body language, etc. I think they are doing great so it is fine to try that.

"They had supper together again yesterday." - Perfect

" I tried a different set-up - Florie in the hallway closer to her room and Hawthorne in the kitchen (within view of each other). They both ate no problem and then he walked away into the living room. I was happy about that! " - PERFECT!!!! :)

"Then he went under the sofa, which I was less happy about (it's usually his more scared/insecure place) but so it goes." - I would have had to see it but since I am not reading anything concerning maybe it is just his routine, something he likes. IF they weren;t eating together, he was acting anxious, etc THEN going under the sofa I would be wondering but there is nothing to support that his actions are conerning.

"She finished eating and then walked to the end of the hallway and surveyed the main room, looking for him. I could see her thinking about it, and then she trotted (not a run, but definitely faster than a walk) around the edge of the room around through the kitchen (I could see her keeping to the perimeter to feel safer) and....ran downstairs." - That is fine. She sounds like she was maybe a touch cautious and it went fine (no chase, no attack). I think that is totally fine.

"Neither of us joined her so this time I just closed the door to the basement." - Ok, maybe keep it open and just keep an eye on Hawthorne next time.

"When Hawthorne emerged from under the sofa about 20 minutes later and went for a drink in his room," - Awwwww, perfect.

" I quickly closed the gate to keep him in and went to check on her." - k, maybe next time jsut leave the door open and keep an eye on them/him.

" She was ready to come out - much less fun in the basement when nobody else is hanging with her! " - EXACTLY!!! I would lvoe to have seen how they did when she reemerged.

"And then she went back in her room," - Awwwwwwwwww, perfect. How did she walk?

" I let Hawthorne out, and we continued with the evening." = Perfect.

"So, that was a long boring story," - Not boring at all and very informational. They are doing great!!!

"but it brings me to my question, which is: after the meal, she seems to now want to go into the basement as a safe alternative to her bedroom." - I think you are making an assumption it is a "safe alternative" which I am not sure is an accurate assumption. I am wondering if she just like going there (instead of back to her room). I am not at all bothered by her going down there.

" Is there a point at which I close the basement door so she has to stay upstairs?" - I don't think so. Just let her make her own choices. I actually would jsut leave the door open after she goes down there then monitor him a bit.

"And with that, should I somehow try to prevent Hawthorne from going under the sofa?" - At this point, no. Usually I like to block of hiding places but I am not sure it is really a hiding place since he seems to be doing just fine.

"My main concern is that the sofa provides a hiding spot that allows Hawthorne to surprise her if she's in the main room." - Ahhhhh, I see your concern, yes. Maybe it is more of a play/ambush location. I would just monitor him. What a stinker, cats................... :)

" I'm trying to find a way to extend the visit but it's harder if she goes into the basement and he goes under the sofa." - Yes, but the fact they can go on with their business is fine. It sounds like it is more a sign of trust and acceptance rather than avoidance (given the other interaction information).

"Although I suppose that's better than fighting! :) " - Hahahaha, YES!!!

"And last question: My partner and I are both off Thursday. Do you think we can try a visit with them together in the afternoon, say?" - ABSOLUTELY!!!

" Do we start with treats and then put the treats away and just see what happens? " - Sure. Start with treats, then hang out with them, talk, have a toy ready to distract, etc. Just keep an eye on their body language, stay calm and confident, talk lovingly to them, hang out with them, reassure, etc. There will probably be growling from her (surprise, surprise), some staring, etc but I fully expect them to be just fine. If you have to pull out the treats again that is fine. Just try not to overthink it and just go with them. Find that balance between trusting them and watching them before worrying. There is usually a lot of signs of trouble before it happens so you should have time to distract, etc.

And just enjoy them that they are at this point. Feel the pride they are doing so great. I don't see everything but I get a sense they are basically intro'd. All the signs point to them doing great. So just enjoy it. :)

I can't wait to hear how it goes. They both are fantastic cats that are doing great. They definitely want and are getting along really well!!! :)

Exciting!!! GREAT JOB!!!
Hello C calicosrspecial !

We tried our afternoon visit but alas - it was unsuccessful. I thought I picked a good time - mid-afternoon, usually when both are sleepy and calmer. We let her out of her room while I was giving Hawthorne treats and then we did treats just like we do before bed and that was fine. There was even a point at which they both went for the same treat and ended up about a foot or two apart and she growled but he took the treat and when I called his name, he came back to me. So I was feeling confident.

Then we put the treats away and thought we would see how it went. He kind of crouched down beside the kitchen island (which at first I thought was a nice thing - being calmer) and she tucked herself under the table. I went to sit a little further into the main room and was trying to speak calmly to them and say "it's ok" etc and then Florie came walking over to me. I think she wanted to go downstairs. As she was crossing over to come to where I was I could see Hawthorne's eyes getting bigger and then he just went for her in a big chase into the living room and under the sofa and then she came flying out and ran into the bedroom and hid under our bed.

I'm in the bedroom with her now to see how long it will take her to come out and to provide some comfort. I didn't have any cardboard with me in the main room and perhaps that was my error. I had no way to break his stare once it started and it was so fast. My partner didn't have any time either - he was the one holding the cardboard. I guess we both just thought we might get further ahead than literally 20 seconds after I put the treats away.

I feel demoralized. But, I know we thought a chase would be possible. I just thought....well, I felt so confident maybe they would just be ok.

Is there something I could have done differently? Do you think this means we need to try the harness?
 
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