Advice on Cat Introductions - Feeling a Bit Lost

pearl99

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A quick note that we didn't do a face-to-face last night. For some reason, they were extra testy last night. She came up to the gate a couple of times wanting out, and then Hawthorne ran over to the gate to try to bonk her. He can never just ignore it. Then at one point, she didn't run away but crouched just out of reach and that really made him mad - so he was pacing at the gate, with his back fur a bit puffed, trying to find a way to get to her, while she was hissing away and pulling back, with her ears tucked against her head. I hadn't seem them like that in awhile - I thought we were passed that. I couldn't distract him with my voice, either. All of a sudden I felt concerned that maybe he DOES want to harm her, at certain times.

Eventually he left it (maybe ten or fifteen seconds) and they calmed down again. They did their treat time through the gate before bed with no issues. Things seem to be fine today - they did puzzles as usual, and are leaving each other alone.

I get the sense there are small changes (like, maybe she comes closer to the gate, or doesn't run away as far, or he's bored, or she looks at him funny, who knows) that he senses that I don't see, and that maybe set him off. Like Graham18 Graham18 , sometimes her growling also sets him off. They both are still reactive to the other in certain ways - setting off each other's insecurities.

Sigh. Feels sometimes like we are working hard against the current! :) But there will always be good days and bad. So big picture! :)

Anyways, hopefully we'll try another face-to-face soon.

I checked in to see how things were going and wow! They are going.
As calico says they will be fine, in my opinion!
2 steps forward, 1 step back. It's hardly ever totally linear. They have spats and get over it. I've felt with mine the progress isn't lost, just a spat.

For me, I can now let Ziggy out in the house 24/7, after 18 months. I was having her in her room at night so the others could run and play at will without being chased. They have arrived!!
It will happen with yours, mine were at the point of yours and there will be more progress. They learn over time to not fear each other, that they don't need to fear.
And sometimes mine get hissy/swattie (like irritated) at each other but it always ends and it's over, with no hard feelings.
Keep a' goin'! :yess:
 

calicosrspecial

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I checked in to see how things were going and wow! They are going.
As calico says they will be fine, in my opinion!
2 steps forward, 1 step back. It's hardly ever totally linear. They have spats and get over it. I've felt with mine the progress isn't lost, just a spat.

For me, I can now let Ziggy out in the house 24/7, after 18 months. I was having her in her room at night so the others could run and play at will without being chased. They have arrived!!
It will happen with yours, mine were at the point of yours and there will be more progress. They learn over time to not fear each other, that they don't need to fear.
And sometimes mine get hissy/swattie (like irritated) at each other but it always ends and it's over, with no hard feelings.
Keep a' goin'! :yess:
"For me, I can now let Ziggy out in the house 24/7, after 18 months." - Congratulations!!! Fantastic!! :clap2:

"They learn over time to not fear each other, that they don't need to fear." - Exactly!!!

"And sometimes mine get hissy/swattie (like irritated) at each other" - Happens all the time. If you saw two of my ferals in the colony you would think they wanted to kill each other often. They then are found grooming each other and sleeping together. Cats..............

" but it always ends and it's over, with no hard feelings." - THAT is the key!!!!
 
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Furmama22

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I checked in to see how things were going and wow! They are going.
As calico says they will be fine, in my opinion!
2 steps forward, 1 step back. It's hardly ever totally linear. They have spats and get over it. I've felt with mine the progress isn't lost, just a spat.

For me, I can now let Ziggy out in the house 24/7, after 18 months. I was having her in her room at night so the others could run and play at will without being chased. They have arrived!!
It will happen with yours, mine were at the point of yours and there will be more progress. They learn over time to not fear each other, that they don't need to fear.
And sometimes mine get hissy/swattie (like irritated) at each other but it always ends and it's over, with no hard feelings.
Keep a' goin'! :yess:
Just wanted to thank you for this comment! It was well-timed! I was feeling low and a bit worried about things and ever reaching 'an end' and then your very kind message appeared, restoring my faith in the process. I'm so appreciative!! :)

I'm glad your kitties have reached a final kind of peace! That's great. I really appreciate you checking in.
 
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Furmama22

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"For me, I can now let Ziggy out in the house 24/7, after 18 months." - Congratulations!!! Fantastic!! :clap2:

"They learn over time to not fear each other, that they don't need to fear." - Exactly!!!

"And sometimes mine get hissy/swattie (like irritated) at each other" - Happens all the time. If you saw two of my ferals in the colony you would think they wanted to kill each other often. They then are found grooming each other and sleeping together. Cats..............

" but it always ends and it's over, with no hard feelings." - THAT is the key!!!!
And thank you as always for your comments! Nothing new to report. Hawthorne and Florie had some more "gate spats" today, just after lunch. Sometimes I think it's a bizarre kind of playtime/entertainment. She sits at the gate just out of reach and he rushes the gate, and then walks away around the table, sneaking, and then rushes it again. Every time she hisses and pulls her ears back and growls to beat the band, but she doesn't move, hahah. So she can't be that scared!

Hawthorne has also been focussed lately on a mouse in the basement. He killed one the other day (gah!) and then he captured another one last night. Old house seems to mean lots of mice around this time of year. I wish for peace and harmony for all, but I will say I don't like mice in the house - I wish they would sense the presence of the cats and choose another house. Anyways, he was up in the early morning so he's napping hard now, in recovery.

Hope you're having a great weekend!
 

pearl99

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Hawthorne and Florie had some more "gate spats" today, just after lunch. Sometimes I think it's a bizarre kind of playtime/entertainment. She sits at the gate just out of reach and he rushes the gate, and then walks away around the table, sneaking, and then rushes it again. Every time she hisses and pulls her ears back and growls to beat the band, but she doesn't move, hahah. So she can't be that scared!
Sounds familiar! Play when secure and the other is contained- or it feels like a secure form of communication, with the gate up. They know the other is barricaded and maybe messages of "I don't want to be messed with" (for when they are roaming free.) And display of confidence and "I'm not a pushover, remember that" or testing things. I don't know, but mine did that! Cats!
 

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And thank you as always for your comments! Nothing new to report. Hawthorne and Florie had some more "gate spats" today, just after lunch. Sometimes I think it's a bizarre kind of playtime/entertainment. She sits at the gate just out of reach and he rushes the gate, and then walks away around the table, sneaking, and then rushes it again. Every time she hisses and pulls her ears back and growls to beat the band, but she doesn't move, hahah. So she can't be that scared!

Hawthorne has also been focussed lately on a mouse in the basement. He killed one the other day (gah!) and then he captured another one last night. Old house seems to mean lots of mice around this time of year. I wish for peace and harmony for all, but I will say I don't like mice in the house - I wish they would sense the presence of the cats and choose another house. Anyways, he was up in the early morning so he's napping hard now, in recovery.

Hope you're having a great weekend!
"And thank you as always for your comments!" - :)

" Nothing new to report. " - OK, let's see

"Hawthorne and Florie had some more "gate spats" today, just after lunch." - Ok

" Sometimes I think it's a bizarre kind of playtime/entertainment. She sits at the gate just out of reach and he rushes the gate, and then walks away around the table, sneaking, and then rushes it again. " - It seems like it. I think there is a bit of frustration as well. Something that is there but out of reach. And leaving that unknown hanging above them.

"Every time she hisses and pulls her ears back and growls to beat the band, but she doesn't move, hahah. So she can't be that scared!" - Exactly. AND they act normal while eating, etc.

"Hawthorne has also been focussed lately on a mouse in the basement. He killed one the other day (gah!) and then he captured another one last night." - Ahhhhhhhhh. Good job Hawthorne!!!

" Old house seems to mean lots of mice around this time of year. I wish for peace and harmony for all, but I will say I don't like mice in the house" - I am with you!!!! If you want to be around stay outside!!!

" - I wish they would sense the presence of the cats and choose another house." - Exactly!!!

" Anyways, he was up in the early morning so he's napping hard now, in recovery." - Awwwwwwwww

Having an intruder can unsettle a cat and cause issues so I would not be surprised if they have some dustups. BUT there fundamental base of trust and respect is solid so they will get over

"Hope you're having a great weekend! " - Thank you. I hope you are as well. :)
 
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Sounds familiar! Play when secure and the other is contained- or it feels like a secure form of communication, with the gate up. They know the other is barricaded and maybe messages of "I don't want to be messed with" (for when they are roaming free.) And display of confidence and "I'm not a pushover, remember that" or testing things. I don't know, but mine did that! Cats!
Just wanted to say I think this is exactly so! A lot of bravado and testing while the safety of the gate is there. :) A very wise assessment.
 
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"And thank you as always for your comments!" - :)

" Nothing new to report. " - OK, let's see

"Hawthorne and Florie had some more "gate spats" today, just after lunch." - Ok

" Sometimes I think it's a bizarre kind of playtime/entertainment. She sits at the gate just out of reach and he rushes the gate, and then walks away around the table, sneaking, and then rushes it again. " - It seems like it. I think there is a bit of frustration as well. Something that is there but out of reach. And leaving that unknown hanging above them.

"Every time she hisses and pulls her ears back and growls to beat the band, but she doesn't move, hahah. So she can't be that scared!" - Exactly. AND they act normal while eating, etc.

"Hawthorne has also been focussed lately on a mouse in the basement. He killed one the other day (gah!) and then he captured another one last night." - Ahhhhhhhhh. Good job Hawthorne!!!

" Old house seems to mean lots of mice around this time of year. I wish for peace and harmony for all, but I will say I don't like mice in the house" - I am with you!!!! If you want to be around stay outside!!!

" - I wish they would sense the presence of the cats and choose another house." - Exactly!!!

" Anyways, he was up in the early morning so he's napping hard now, in recovery." - Awwwwwwwww

Having an intruder can unsettle a cat and cause issues so I would not be surprised if they have some dustups. BUT there fundamental base of trust and respect is solid so they will get over

"Hope you're having a great weekend! " - Thank you. I hope you are as well. :)
I will update again soon! Nothing new to report now. We haven't done another face-to-face. That's on me, really - I've just been enjoying my evenings without the stress of them together, haha. But I know I must continue on in the process!

Also, in addition to the mice, both are now obsessed with watching this chipmunk in the backyard. They take turns in their individual times in the main space to watch him. Florie has even gotten a bit bolder rattling the bars of the gate when she wants out to watch him; and Hawthorne has been so entertained by the chipmunk he hasn't always come flying over when she rattles the bars.

Distraction in the form of chipmunk! :)
 

calicosrspecial

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I will update again soon! Nothing new to report now. We haven't done another face-to-face. That's on me, really - I've just been enjoying my evenings without the stress of them together, haha. But I know I must continue on in the process!

Also, in addition to the mice, both are now obsessed with watching this chipmunk in the backyard. They take turns in their individual times in the main space to watch him. Florie has even gotten a bit bolder rattling the bars of the gate when she wants out to watch him; and Hawthorne has been so entertained by the chipmunk he hasn't always come flying over when she rattles the bars.

Distraction in the form of chipmunk! :)
"Just wanted to say I think this is exactly so! A lot of bravado and testing while the safety of the gate is there. :) A very wise assessment." - :)

"I will update again soon! Nothing new to report now. We haven't done another face-to-face. " - Ok

"That's on me, really - I've just been enjoying my evenings without the stress of them together, haha." - Ok. Understood.

"But I know I must continue on in the process!" - Absolutely

"Also, in addition to the mice, both are now obsessed with watching this chipmunk in the backyard. They take turns in their individual times in the main space to watch him." - Awwwwwwwww

" Florie has even gotten a bit bolder rattling the bars of the gate when she wants out to watch him; and Hawthorne has been so entertained by the chipmunk he hasn't always come flying over when she rattles the bars." - WOW!!! GREAT!!!

"Distraction in the form of chipmunk! :) " - Too bad we can't control him to be around when we want him!!!!

Hang in there. I think you are going to be reading Fluffy and Sapphire are together fairly soon and I hope that gives you some comfort. :)
 
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"Just wanted to say I think this is exactly so! A lot of bravado and testing while the safety of the gate is there. :) A very wise assessment." - :)

"I will update again soon! Nothing new to report now. We haven't done another face-to-face. " - Ok

"That's on me, really - I've just been enjoying my evenings without the stress of them together, haha." - Ok. Understood.

"But I know I must continue on in the process!" - Absolutely

"Also, in addition to the mice, both are now obsessed with watching this chipmunk in the backyard. They take turns in their individual times in the main space to watch him." - Awwwwwwwww

" Florie has even gotten a bit bolder rattling the bars of the gate when she wants out to watch him; and Hawthorne has been so entertained by the chipmunk he hasn't always come flying over when she rattles the bars." - WOW!!! GREAT!!!

"Distraction in the form of chipmunk! :) " - Too bad we can't control him to be around when we want him!!!!

Hang in there. I think you are going to be reading Fluffy and Sapphire are together fairly soon and I hope that gives you some comfort. :)
Well hello there! I can tell I haven't posted in awhile - my thread was buried on page 6, hahaha! We are still in the same old - the cats switch territories in the morning, afternoon, evening, and while there still occasional spats at the gate, Hawthorne can now see her sitting right at the gate and leave it 9 times out of 10, provided I see him and call his name (and it really helps if I have treats). Sometimes he just wants to play and won't stop - then she hisses/spits/backs away from the gate, but two or three seconds later they are both fine again. Sometimes she still looks hunchy/tail wrapped around, but other times she'll sit right at the gate and growl. Moral of the story, I think I continue to see incremental improvement with them seeing each other through the gate and Hawthorne being able to leave it alone. She still growls a lot, of course.

But I haven't done any more face-to-face sessions. I seem to have burned out and now that we're in this 'liveable' state with the territories I've been resistant to taking the final step. I know that I need to do it.

But here's my question - is staying in this in-between state where they are living separately likely to make it harder to get them together in person? Is there a point at which the incremental progress of visual access becomes stalled and we have just made them set in their ways of living apart?

If yes, I suppose I ought to get a move on. :)

Hope you are well and enjoying the autumn!
 

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Well hello there! I can tell I haven't posted in awhile - my thread was buried on page 6, hahaha! We are still in the same old - the cats switch territories in the morning, afternoon, evening, and while there still occasional spats at the gate, Hawthorne can now see her sitting right at the gate and leave it 9 times out of 10, provided I see him and call his name (and it really helps if I have treats). Sometimes he just wants to play and won't stop - then she hisses/spits/backs away from the gate, but two or three seconds later they are both fine again. Sometimes she still looks hunchy/tail wrapped around, but other times she'll sit right at the gate and growl. Moral of the story, I think I continue to see incremental improvement with them seeing each other through the gate and Hawthorne being able to leave it alone. She still growls a lot, of course.

But I haven't done any more face-to-face sessions. I seem to have burned out and now that we're in this 'liveable' state with the territories I've been resistant to taking the final step. I know that I need to do it.

But here's my question - is staying in this in-between state where they are living separately likely to make it harder to get them together in person? Is there a point at which the incremental progress of visual access becomes stalled and we have just made them set in their ways of living apart?

If yes, I suppose I ought to get a move on. :)

Hope you are well and enjoying the autumn!
I completely understand the burnout you're feeling. Fluffy meows constantly to come out of whatever room he is in so I'm having to spend more time with them and less time for me. This last bit where I have them out together a few times a day as long as I'm supervising Fluffy closely is definitely sucking the energy out of me.

Hang in there! You've got this!
 

calicosrspecial

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Well hello there! I can tell I haven't posted in awhile - my thread was buried on page 6, hahaha! We are still in the same old - the cats switch territories in the morning, afternoon, evening, and while there still occasional spats at the gate, Hawthorne can now see her sitting right at the gate and leave it 9 times out of 10, provided I see him and call his name (and it really helps if I have treats). Sometimes he just wants to play and won't stop - then she hisses/spits/backs away from the gate, but two or three seconds later they are both fine again. Sometimes she still looks hunchy/tail wrapped around, but other times she'll sit right at the gate and growl. Moral of the story, I think I continue to see incremental improvement with them seeing each other through the gate and Hawthorne being able to leave it alone. She still growls a lot, of course.

But I haven't done any more face-to-face sessions. I seem to have burned out and now that we're in this 'liveable' state with the territories I've been resistant to taking the final step. I know that I need to do it.

But here's my question - is staying in this in-between state where they are living separately likely to make it harder to get them together in person? Is there a point at which the incremental progress of visual access becomes stalled and we have just made them set in their ways of living apart?

If yes, I suppose I ought to get a move on. :)

Hope you are well and enjoying the autumn!
"Well hello there! I can tell I haven't posted in awhile - my thread was buried on page 6, hahaha! " - Well, with the new job and the other issue it is understandable.

"We are still in the same old - the cats switch territories in the morning, afternoon, evening, and while there still occasional spats at the gate," - Ok

" Hawthorne can now see her sitting right at the gate and leave it 9 times out of 10, provided I see him and call his name (and it really helps if I have treats). " - Ok, that is really good

"Sometimes he just wants to play and won't stop" - Yes

"- then she hisses/spits/backs away from the gate," - Ok, understandable.

" but two or three seconds later they are both fine again." - THAT is GREAT!!!

" Sometimes she still looks hunchy/tail wrapped around," - Not a big deal

" but other times she'll sit right at the gate and growl." - Great

" Moral of the story, I think I continue to see incremental improvement with them seeing each other through the gate and Hawthorne being able to leave it alone." - AGREED!!

" She still growls a lot, of course." - That is totally fine.

"But I haven't done any more face-to-face sessions." - Ok :/

" I seem to have burned out " - understandable with everything going on.

"and now that we're in this 'liveable' state with the territories I've been resistant to taking the final step. I know that I need to do it." - Yes, that is the danger that it feels safe but it is not a great long term solution for anyone really. :/ IF they were not able to live together and IF they could not find another home then it could be a solution BUT they can live together so hopefully we can get there.

"But here's my question - is staying in this in-between state where they are living separately likely to make it harder to get them together in person? Is there a point at which the incremental progress of visual access becomes stalled and we have just made them set in their ways of living apart?" - No, I am not worried about that. BUT being together with the whole territory is a better life for everyone.

We'll get there. :)

"If yes, I suppose I ought to get a move on. :) " - ;) Yep ;)

"Hope you are well and enjoying the autumn! " - I hope you are as well!!! Hang in there is a lot going on but I have no doubt that Hawthorne and Florie will be intro'd successfully just fine. :) And I will do everything in my power to make that happen. :)

Hang in there and if you take a look at Sapphire and Fluffy's thread that is textbook in how to achieve success. And of course, I am here on this thread as well anytime. :)
 
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"Well hello there! I can tell I haven't posted in awhile - my thread was buried on page 6, hahaha! " - Well, with the new job and the other issue it is understandable.

"We are still in the same old - the cats switch territories in the morning, afternoon, evening, and while there still occasional spats at the gate," - Ok

" Hawthorne can now see her sitting right at the gate and leave it 9 times out of 10, provided I see him and call his name (and it really helps if I have treats). " - Ok, that is really good

"Sometimes he just wants to play and won't stop" - Yes

"- then she hisses/spits/backs away from the gate," - Ok, understandable.

" but two or three seconds later they are both fine again." - THAT is GREAT!!!

" Sometimes she still looks hunchy/tail wrapped around," - Not a big deal

" but other times she'll sit right at the gate and growl." - Great

" Moral of the story, I think I continue to see incremental improvement with them seeing each other through the gate and Hawthorne being able to leave it alone." - AGREED!!

" She still growls a lot, of course." - That is totally fine.

"But I haven't done any more face-to-face sessions." - Ok :/

" I seem to have burned out " - understandable with everything going on.

"and now that we're in this 'liveable' state with the territories I've been resistant to taking the final step. I know that I need to do it." - Yes, that is the danger that it feels safe but it is not a great long term solution for anyone really. :/ IF they were not able to live together and IF they could not find another home then it could be a solution BUT they can live together so hopefully we can get there.

"But here's my question - is staying in this in-between state where they are living separately likely to make it harder to get them together in person? Is there a point at which the incremental progress of visual access becomes stalled and we have just made them set in their ways of living apart?" - No, I am not worried about that. BUT being together with the whole territory is a better life for everyone.

We'll get there. :)

"If yes, I suppose I ought to get a move on. :) " - ;) Yep ;)

"Hope you are well and enjoying the autumn! " - I hope you are as well!!! Hang in there is a lot going on but I have no doubt that Hawthorne and Florie will be intro'd successfully just fine. :) And I will do everything in my power to make that happen. :)

Hang in there and if you take a look at Sapphire and Fluffy's thread that is textbook in how to achieve success. And of course, I am here on this thread as well anytime. :)
Well we had a bit of an incident! I'll update on what I know.

I went for a bike ride this morning with my mom around 10am. Hawthorne was in the hallway/bedrooms area, and Florie was out in the main space. I brought one of her litterboxes out as well since she doesn't seem to want to use his (although he will use hers). Separate from that, Hawthorne had found another mouse this morning (before I switched them) and it managed to make its way to her, where she was playing with it in our bedroom and then lost it. She was fixated on it for awhile and then went to take a nap. She was happy to come out in the main area as usual.

So that's the scene. When I got home at noon, I couldn't find her anywhere. I kept calling her name and shaking the treats and I saw Hawthorne lying under the bed in the hallway territory watching me. I figured one of them found the mouse and that's why he wasn't coming to greet me at the gate. Anyways, eventually I went in there to check and sure enough, both were in the one bedroom. I don't know how long they were in there together. I had the wall of gates up but the gap between the top gate and the bottom gate was obviously such that she was able to get through. I don't know what her motivation might have been - the mouse, the litterbox - not sure.

She was sitting in the windowsill growling; he was lying (in a fairly relaxed, although could have been guarding position) under the bed. She had pooped all over (like, all over), and indeed, was even sitting in some poop in the windowsill. There were also hair tufts all over. She was also growling non-stop.

I was able to gently guide Hawthorne, with some time and coaxing, out from under the bed, and get him into the other bedroom where I closed the door. During that time, she wouldn't eat her treats (I placed a couple in the windowsill near her).

I cleaned up to the best degree possible and then, after five or ten minutes, she was willing to leave the windowsill and sit on her cat tree. She also ate a few treats. Her eyes also went from scrunchy and stressed to more alert and normal. After about 20 minutes, she was willing to come out of the room and back into the main room. We're about one hour later or so, and she's had her usual salmon treat, groomed, let me gently groom her to help with the smeared poop on her tail (although she wasn't happy about it), and is now watching cat tv out the screen door.

So I'm happy with her rebound. I don't know yet how she'll do seeing him again (through the gate) but we'll cross that bridge in another hour or two once she's had a bit more time to settle.

I haven't spent as much time with Hawthorne, but he was perfectly willing to eat his salmon too (in the bedroom), have a treat puzzle, and so on.

So that's the story! She doesn't seem injured - I will check her again when she's had relaxed time. But I didn't see any blood - just the hair tufts and kind of a saliva matted area on her back where I wonder if he tried to grab her. I'm not sure. I'm very sorry that she was so scared she pooped. I can't speak to how serious a 'fight' it might have been because I wasn't here to witness it. So hoping that they are both ok and we can get back to life through the gates soon enough. What are your thoughts?
 

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"Well we had a bit of an incident! I'll update on what I know." - Ok, let's see

"I went for a bike ride this morning with my mom around 10am. Hawthorne was in the hallway/bedrooms area, and Florie was out in the main space." - Ok

" I brought one of her litterboxes out as well since she doesn't seem to want to use his (although he will use hers)." - Ok, that is fine. Interesting that she will not use "his" in the main area BUT she doesn't mind him using "hers" in her territory.

"Separate from that, Hawthorne had found another mouse this morning (before I switched them) and it managed to make its way to her, where she was playing with it in our bedroom and then lost it." - Yep, they view it as a toy so often. :/

"She was fixated on it for awhile and then went to take a nap." - Yep

" She was happy to come out in the main area as usual." - Great

So that's the scene. When I got home at noon, I couldn't find her anywhere. I kept calling her name and shaking the treats and I saw Hawthorne lying under the bed in the hallway territory watching me. I figured one of them found the mouse and that's why he wasn't coming to greet me at the gate." - Hmmmmm, ok.

" Anyways, eventually I went in there to check and sure enough, both were in the one bedroom. I don't know how long they were in there together. I had the wall of gates up but the gap between the top gate and the bottom gate was obviously such that she was able to get through. I don't know what her motivation might have been - the mouse, the litterbox - not sure." - WHOA.................... THAT is interesting.

"She was sitting in the windowsill growling; he was lying (in a fairly relaxed, although could have been guarding position) under the bed." - Ok

" She had pooped all over (like, all over), and indeed, was even sitting in some poop in the windowsill." - Awwwwww, poor thing. :(

" There were also hair tufts all over." - Ok, but no injury it seems, correct?

" She was also growling non-stop." - Of course, makes sense.

"I was able to gently guide Hawthorne, with some time and coaxing, out from under the bed, and get him into the other bedroom where I closed the door. " - Great

"During that time, she wouldn't eat her treats (I placed a couple in the windowsill near her)." - Understandable.

Do you think she was trying to get to "her" litter box in "her" territory?

"I cleaned up to the best degree possible" - Good

" and then, after five or ten minutes, she was willing to leave the windowsill and sit on her cat tree. She also ate a few treats." - WOW!!!! THAT IS GREAT!!! :clap2:

" Her eyes also went from scrunchy and stressed to more alert and normal." - Great

: After about 20 minutes, she was willing to come out of the room and back into the main room." - Great

" We're about one hour later or so, and she's had her usual salmon treat, groomed, let me gently groom her to help with the smeared poop on her tail (although she wasn't happy about it), and is now watching cat tv out the screen door." - WOW, fast rebound!!!

"So I'm happy with her rebound." - ABSOLUTELY!!!

" I don't know yet how she'll do seeing him again (through the gate) but we'll cross that bridge in another hour or two once she's had a bit more time to settle." - Yes, don't rush it but I suspect after some "issues" in a day or two they will be back to normal.

"I haven't spent as much time with Hawthorne, but he was perfectly willing to eat his salmon too (in the bedroom), have a treat puzzle, and so on." - Ok, great.

"So that's the story!" - Wow

" She doesn't seem injured - I will check her again when she's had relaxed time." - Good but I suspect she isn't given how she is acting.

" But I didn't see any blood" - GREAT. He didn't want to kill her (which I figured) but in a confined space tc it can go bad quickly so that is great.

" - just the hair tufts " - Yes

"and kind of a saliva matted area on her back where I wonder if he tried to grab her." - Ok, or she got it from the floor.

" I'm not sure." - No, it is hard to know. :/

" I'm very sorry that she was so scared she pooped." - I know :( Poor thing.

" I can't speak to how serious a 'fight' it might have been because I wasn't here to witness it. " - No BUT judging by how they are acting it was more "scary" than "real". Meaning it was a lot of bluster but not a lot of real fighting.

"So hoping that they are both ok" - Well, so far, MUCH BETTER than I would have expected.

"and we can get back to life through the gates soon enough." - I think you will be able to. Just give it a bit of time.

BUT I think they worked it out on their own. Which is GREAT!!!

My guess is this is what happened. Florie was needing to use the litter and wanted into "her" territory (maybe didn't realize her box was in the main area OR she doesn't like to go there and wants privacy or "her" territory OR she saw the mouse, was hunting, wanted it and got through the gate. Either one startled Hawthorne, it escalated, it got out of control for a bit, they restrained themselves (didn't want to really hurt or kill the other), kinda learned the other one is not a "death threat" and waited for mom.

Positives - Florie was comfortable going where Hawthorne was, they didn't really hut or kill each other, they faced their fears and they weren't as bad as feared, FAST REBOUND which tells us THEY didn't think it was THAT bad.

What are your thoughts?
"Well we had a bit of an incident! I'll update on what I know." - Ok, let's see

"I went for a bike ride this morning with my mom around 10am. Hawthorne was in the hallway/bedrooms area, and Florie was out in the main space." - Ok

" I brought one of her litterboxes out as well since she doesn't seem to want to use his (although he will use hers)." - Ok, that is fine. Interesting that she will not use "his" in the main area BUT she doesn't mind him using "hers" in her territory.

"Separate from that, Hawthorne had found another mouse this morning (before I switched them) and it managed to make its way to her, where she was playing with it in our bedroom and then lost it." - Yep, they view it as a toy so often. :/

"She was fixated on it for awhile and then went to take a nap." - Yep

" She was happy to come out in the main area as usual." - Great

So that's the scene. When I got home at noon, I couldn't find her anywhere. I kept calling her name and shaking the treats and I saw Hawthorne lying under the bed in the hallway territory watching me. I figured one of them found the mouse and that's why he wasn't coming to greet me at the gate." - Hmmmmm, ok.

" Anyways, eventually I went in there to check and sure enough, both were in the one bedroom. I don't know how long they were in there together. I had the wall of gates up but the gap between the top gate and the bottom gate was obviously such that she was able to get through. I don't know what her motivation might have been - the mouse, the litterbox - not sure." - WHOA.................... THAT is interesting.

"She was sitting in the windowsill growling; he was lying (in a fairly relaxed, although could have been guarding position) under the bed." - Ok

" She had pooped all over (like, all over), and indeed, was even sitting in some poop in the windowsill." - Awwwwww, poor thing. :(

" There were also hair tufts all over." - Ok, but no injury it seems, correct?

" She was also growling non-stop." - Of course, makes sense.

"I was able to gently guide Hawthorne, with some time and coaxing, out from under the bed, and get him into the other bedroom where I closed the door. " - Great

"During that time, she wouldn't eat her treats (I placed a couple in the windowsill near her)." - Understandable.

Do you think she was trying to get to "her" litter box in "her" territory?

"I cleaned up to the best degree possible" - Good

" and then, after five or ten minutes, she was willing to leave the windowsill and sit on her cat tree. She also ate a few treats." - WOW!!!! THAT IS GREAT!!! :clap2:

" Her eyes also went from scrunchy and stressed to more alert and normal." - Great

: After about 20 minutes, she was willing to come out of the room and back into the main room." - Great

" We're about one hour later or so, and she's had her usual salmon treat, groomed, let me gently groom her to help with the smeared poop on her tail (although she wasn't happy about it), and is now watching cat tv out the screen door." - WOW, fast rebound!!!

"So I'm happy with her rebound." - ABSOLUTELY!!!

" I don't know yet how she'll do seeing him again (through the gate) but we'll cross that bridge in another hour or two once she's had a bit more time to settle." - Yes, don't rush it but I suspect after some "issues" in a day or two they will be back to normal.

"I haven't spent as much time with Hawthorne, but he was perfectly willing to eat his salmon too (in the bedroom), have a treat puzzle, and so on." - Ok, great.

"So that's the story!" - Wow

" She doesn't seem injured - I will check her again when she's had relaxed time." - Good but I suspect she isn't given how she is acting.

" But I didn't see any blood" - GREAT. He didn't want to kill her (which I figured) but in a confined space tc it can go bad quickly so that is great.

" - just the hair tufts " - Yes

"and kind of a saliva matted area on her back where I wonder if he tried to grab her." - Ok, or she got it from the floor.

" I'm not sure." - No, it is hard to know. :/

" I'm very sorry that she was so scared she pooped." - I know :( Poor thing.

" I can't speak to how serious a 'fight' it might have been because I wasn't here to witness it. " - No BUT judging by how they are acting it was more "scary" than "real". Meaning it was a lot of bluster but not a lot of real fighting.

"So hoping that they are both ok" - Well, so far, MUCH BETTER than I would have expected.

"and we can get back to life through the gates soon enough." - I think you will be able to. Just give it a bit of time.

BUT I think they worked it out on their own. Which is GREAT!!!

My guess is this is what happened. Florie was needing to use the litter and wanted into "her" territory (maybe didn't realize her box was in the main area OR she doesn't like to go there and wants privacy or "her" territory OR she saw the mouse, was hunting, wanted it and got through the gate. Either one startled Hawthorne, it escalated, it got out of control for a bit, they restrained themselves (didn't want to really hurt or kill the other), kinda learned the other one is not a "death threat" and waited for mom.

Positives - Florie was comfortable going where Hawthorne was, they didn't really hut or kill each other, they faced their fears and they weren't as bad as feared, FAST REBOUND which tells us THEY didn't think it was THAT bad.

Negative - they did "tussle" and she was very frightened in the moment.

" What are your thoughts?" - So overall, obviously we would prefer it not to happen BUT I take it as a positive because of the above. I now know Hawthorne doesn't want to kill her (which I kinda knew BUT now I do know) AND more importantly so does she.

So just take it slow, use positive distraction and reassurance, make those positive associations (food), try to act like nothing happened and let's go from there.

I don't think this will do any long term damage and actually might have advanced their relationship.

Let me know how they are doing and we will adjust as needed.

Whew, thank goodness this went the way it did. :)
 

pearl99

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But I haven't done any more face-to-face sessions. I seem to have burned out and now that we're in this 'liveable' state with the territories I've been resistant to taking the final step. I know that I need to do it.
Oh gosh I can understand the burn-out too. I got there when intro-ing Ziggy. I just treaded water for awhile. And I'm retired, I can imagine doing this while working!
I did get back to it, after a welcome break but I didn't do the break for a too long of a time. But the breather helped me get refreshed. We did get there! I decided the sooner we get back to it the sooner the adjustments would come.
Hang in!
 

calicosrspecial

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Well we had a bit of an incident! I'll update on what I know.

I went for a bike ride this morning with my mom around 10am. Hawthorne was in the hallway/bedrooms area, and Florie was out in the main space. I brought one of her litterboxes out as well since she doesn't seem to want to use his (although he will use hers). Separate from that, Hawthorne had found another mouse this morning (before I switched them) and it managed to make its way to her, where she was playing with it in our bedroom and then lost it. She was fixated on it for awhile and then went to take a nap. She was happy to come out in the main area as usual.

So that's the scene. When I got home at noon, I couldn't find her anywhere. I kept calling her name and shaking the treats and I saw Hawthorne lying under the bed in the hallway territory watching me. I figured one of them found the mouse and that's why he wasn't coming to greet me at the gate. Anyways, eventually I went in there to check and sure enough, both were in the one bedroom. I don't know how long they were in there together. I had the wall of gates up but the gap between the top gate and the bottom gate was obviously such that she was able to get through. I don't know what her motivation might have been - the mouse, the litterbox - not sure.

She was sitting in the windowsill growling; he was lying (in a fairly relaxed, although could have been guarding position) under the bed. She had pooped all over (like, all over), and indeed, was even sitting in some poop in the windowsill. There were also hair tufts all over. She was also growling non-stop.

I was able to gently guide Hawthorne, with some time and coaxing, out from under the bed, and get him into the other bedroom where I closed the door. During that time, she wouldn't eat her treats (I placed a couple in the windowsill near her).

I cleaned up to the best degree possible and then, after five or ten minutes, she was willing to leave the windowsill and sit on her cat tree. She also ate a few treats. Her eyes also went from scrunchy and stressed to more alert and normal. After about 20 minutes, she was willing to come out of the room and back into the main room. We're about one hour later or so, and she's had her usual salmon treat, groomed, let me gently groom her to help with the smeared poop on her tail (although she wasn't happy about it), and is now watching cat tv out the screen door.

So I'm happy with her rebound. I don't know yet how she'll do seeing him again (through the gate) but we'll cross that bridge in another hour or two once she's had a bit more time to settle.

I haven't spent as much time with Hawthorne, but he was perfectly willing to eat his salmon too (in the bedroom), have a treat puzzle, and so on.

So that's the story! She doesn't seem injured - I will check her again when she's had relaxed time. But I didn't see any blood - just the hair tufts and kind of a saliva matted area on her back where I wonder if he tried to grab her. I'm not sure. I'm very sorry that she was so scared she pooped. I can't speak to how serious a 'fight' it might have been because I wasn't here to witness it. So hoping that they are both ok and we can get back to life through the gates soon enough. What are your thoughts?
How are you and the cats doing? Hope everyone is well. :)
 
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Furmama22

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How are you and the cats doing? Hope everyone is well. :)
Hello!! Knock on wood, the cats seem to be good! The incident seems to have had no effect on Hawthorne - he's as half spicy/half uninterested as ever. He seems exactly the same.

Florie is doing a bit more growling, especially when I throw the treats for both of them and he starts running/chasing the treats. She is very suspicious of him then. But I could still get them to do bedtime treat pastes about a foot apart (through the bars of the gate - I have one paste for her in one hand and one paste for him through the gate in the other hand) and that was fine before she started growling when I threw the greenies treats.

So basically all as was before, with her occasionally growling at something he is doing that she might have not growled at before. I presume she is just warning him - 'don't try anything, I see you there, back off'. Sometimes he doesn't appear to be doing anything, so I'm not entirely clear on her rubric for deciding when to growl.

But on the whole, all good. She's using her litterbox no problem, eating and drinking.

So despite the serious nature of the fear pooping, we seem to be ok! I will pick up face-to-face intros in a week maybe - I start my new job on Monday, so the cats will first have to adjust to being alone for the better part of the day.

Also, yesterday morning Florie found the mouse back that she lost - it was in the roller thing at the top of the blinds!! I could see it's little tail sticking out. *Shudder*. My partner carried it outside. Anyways, I am guessing that's why she jumped back in through the gates on that day - she wanted to find the mouse again.

Also, last comment - I noticed Hawthorne's nails are a bit long, so I'll trim them. But it's additional confirmation that he could have seriously hurt her and didn't. So I'm keeping the faith that we can still get them to get along, or at least, just leave each other alone. :)

Thanks for checking in!!! Hope you have/are having a lovely weekend!
 
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Furmama22

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Oh gosh I can understand the burn-out too. I got there when intro-ing Ziggy. I just treaded water for awhile. And I'm retired, I can imagine doing this while working!
I did get back to it, after a welcome break but I didn't do the break for a too long of a time. But the breather helped me get refreshed. We did get there! I decided the sooner we get back to it the sooner the adjustments would come.
Hang in!
Always appreciate your comments pearl99 pearl99 ! They help me keep the faith that all will work out. I do feel refreshed and pretty confident, and even though I'm guessing a few more chases are in our future, the worst has happened (them getting into the same room together) and no one was injured (except it can't have been much fun for Florie), so hopefully we can still do this!!
 

pearl99

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Always appreciate your comments pearl99 pearl99 ! They help me keep the faith that all will work out. I do feel refreshed and pretty confident, and even though I'm guessing a few more chases are in our future, the worst has happened (them getting into the same room together) and no one was injured (except it can't have been much fun for Florie), so hopefully we can still do this!!
Yes don't be too discouraged if there are chases. Last evening Moo was next to me on the couch while I was watching TV and Ziggy jumped up on my other side. No hisses, no growls, no dilated eyes- they looked at each other then after a bit both fell asleep. Ahhhhhhh feels so good! It will happen.
 
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Furmama22

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Yes don't be too discouraged if there are chases. Last evening Moo was next to me on the couch while I was watching TV and Ziggy jumped up on my other side. No hisses, no growls, no dilated eyes- they looked at each other then after a bit both fell asleep. Ahhhhhhh feels so good! It will happen.
That sounds heavenly hahaha! :)
 
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