Advice on Cat Introductions - Feeling a Bit Lost

[Furmama22]

Thank you all for responding! Merry Christmas to all of you!

Things are going fairly well. Hawthorne is a bit less anxious about being closed in a room if I'm in there with him, doing play-time or even just reading, and today he approached the pet gate during meal time (during a visual access time) and was both easily distracted AND had a friendly tail (not apprehensive like usual). So while I'm trying to invest too much in each individual interaction, that still made me happy.

Otherwise it seems just business as usual - they both seem pretty comfortable with the visits we're doing now (the 5 minute or less treats times, plus an occasional few minutes of visual access at meal time) so now I'm thinking in a few days I'll move to trying to extend the visits - with slower treats, as suggested, or maybe something else. Have to think that one through.

Thanks again for all of the positivity and support! It is much appreciated.

 

[Mamanyt1953]

Sounds like a reason to be merry to me!

 

[Furmama22]

Well I suppose it's always one step forward two steps back. This morning during breakfast Hawthorne and Florence both decided to come to the gate - she had friendly body language and he mostly did too, except I suspect he was staring a bit - I couldn't distract them and they got to the gate and then he tried to bonk her on the head and she hissed. So I closed the door and gave it a minute and when I checked back, she was fine - eating her breakfast again. So that's a good recovery but...I confess I'd hoped for a friendlier interaction.

Hawthorne is a bit stressed out because my stepkids are coming today and we had to switch Florence's 'sanctuary room' from my stepdaughter's room to our bedroom (so that my stepdaughter can have her room while she visits). So he's kind of thrown off - now that room is open but the other room is closed off.

Anyways, it's always stressful when they visit (for the cats, for me - it's a small house) so I'm just going to keep doing the high value treats and continuing as I have while they visit and then we'll see next week if it's the right time to make the visual access visits a bit longer.

If we're following the slow and steady route, do most of you do the closed door feedings (closer together), then the visual access short visits, then longer visits, then unlimited visual access, then a face-to-face meeting?

Happy Boxing Day!

PS I attached a photo of Florence - she's the cutest!

 

[Mamanyt1953]

AWWWWWWWWW! She is adorable! And that really wasn't even a whole step back, more of a "lean back." You're doing fine!

 

[Furmama22]

Thank you!

 

[calicosrspecial]

Well I suppose it's always one step forward two steps back. This morning during breakfast Hawthorne and Florence both decided to come to the gate - she had friendly body language and he mostly did too, except I suspect he was staring a bit - I couldn't distract them and they got to the gate and then he tried to bonk her on the head and she hissed. So I closed the door and gave it a minute and when I checked back, she was fine - eating her breakfast again. So that's a good recovery but...I confess I'd hoped for a friendlier interaction.

Hawthorne is a bit stressed out because my stepkids are coming today and we had to switch Florence's 'sanctuary room' from my stepdaughter's room to our bedroom (so that my stepdaughter can have her room while she visits). So he's kind of thrown off - now that room is open but the other room is closed off.

Anyways, it's always stressful when they visit (for the cats, for me - it's a small house) so I'm just going to keep doing the high value treats and continuing as I have while they visit and then we'll see next week if it's the right time to make the visual access visits a bit longer.

If we're following the slow and steady route, do most of you do the closed door feedings (closer together), then the visual access short visits, then longer visits, then unlimited visual access, then a face-to-face meeting?

Happy Boxing Day!

PS I attached a photo of Florence - she's the cutest!
View attachment 363903

Oh, Florence!!! She is GORGEOUS!! LOVE at first sight!!!

"Well I suppose it's always one step forward two steps back." - Yes, it is always. But there is a point where they pass the "risk point" where the ups and downs are really just blips and not existential. You are past that point so anything that happens can be handled.

" This morning during breakfast Hawthorne and Florence both decided to come to the gate - she had friendly body language and he mostly did too, except I suspect he was staring a bit - I couldn't distract them and they got to the gate and then he tried to bonk her on the head and she hissed." - Yes, that can happen. Do you think he was trying to get her to play?

"So I closed the door and gave it a minute and when I checked back, she was fine - eating her breakfast again. So that's a good recovery but...I confess I'd hoped for a friendlier interaction. " - Ok, FAST rebound. So Florence told us it wasn't a big deal which is great.

"Hawthorne is a bit stressed out because my stepkids are coming today and we had to switch Florence's 'sanctuary room' from my stepdaughter's room to our bedroom (so that my stepdaughter can have her room while she visits). So he's kind of thrown off - now that room is open but the other room is closed off. " - Yes, any change can be disconcerting and any loss of territory. But it has to happen so just do your best to ease his concerns, spend some extra time with him, spoil him a bit, etc.

"Anyways, it's always stressful when they visit (for the cats, for me - it's a small house)" - Yes, it is normal. And the cats will pick up on your stress so it is a good indication of where they are. Just do your best, try to play, treats, keep it as "normal" and routine as possible. They will get over it.

"so I'm just going to keep doing the high value treats and continuing as I have while they visit and then we'll see next week if it's the right time to make the visual access visits a bit longer." - Yes, perfect. I am not sure how old the step-kids are but jsut make sure they don't let any one out, get too physical with them, etc.

"If we're following the slow and steady route, do most of you do the closed door feedings (closer together), then the visual access short visits, then longer visits, then unlimited visual access, then a face-to-face meeting?" - Yes and we go at the cat's speed. SO it is more art than science (no real set rules, times, etc). We just do what is needed to help them along.

So far, so good. Keep up the great work. They are going to be fine.

Happy Boxing Day!

 

[pearl99]

It all sounds good!
I had visitors this summer (safe visitors as far as the virus goes) while in an intro still with Ziggy and I did the same, kind of didn't really try to move forward till they were gone, just kept at the same place or a little step back if needed.
Bonk on the head is normal, and the reaction. "Hey here's a bop (bonk)." "Hey cut that out! (hiss)."
Happy Boxing Day to you!

 

[calicosrspecial]

It all sounds good!
I had visitors this summer (safe visitors as far as the virus goes) while in an intro still with Ziggy and I did the same, kind of didn't really try to move forward till they were gone, just kept at the same place or a little step back if needed.
Bonk on the head is normal, and the reaction. "Hey here's a bop (bonk)." "Hey cut that out! (hiss)."
Happy Boxing Day to you!

EXACTLY correct, spot on!! Well said.

 

[Furmama22]

Thank you again for such supportive and encouraging words!

pearl99 , I'm taking your advice and just keeping things the same right now - until Hawthorne is able to settle again. He's the one most affected by additional people in the home. My stepkids are old enough to take good care with the cats but Hawthorne is scared of most people (especially boys/men) and sometimes my stepson can still be loud/unpredictable etc. 12 year old boys have lots of energy.

And C calicosrspecial , always appreciate your kind reassuring words too! When do you know cats are past the 'risk point' of not getting along? I'd worried these two weren't past that point so your confidence things are going along normally has been really calming.

Also, during the bonk/hiss incident of a couple days ago, you'd asked if Hawthorne was trying to play but I don't think so. I think he's still a bit too apprehensive/interested in staring. His body language at the gate (with the door closed) has sometimes been play-like (an occasional roll, for example - like he used to do when he and my previous cat Tennyson would play under the slipcover of the sofa) but when the gate is open it's more of an ongoing curiousity, with variable 'ease of distractability' depending on how tasty the treat is.

And yes for Florence it was love at first sight! I saw her photos at the humane society and thought, that little face! And she's such a gem. She loves to burrow under the covers and sleep belly-side up.

Thanks again to you all!

 

[calicosrspecial]

Thank you again for such supportive and encouraging words!

pearl99 , I'm taking your advice and just keeping things the same right now - until Hawthorne is able to settle again. He's the one most affected by additional people in the home. My stepkids are old enough to take good care with the cats but Hawthorne is scared of most people (especially boys/men) and sometimes my stepson can still be loud/unpredictable etc. 12 year old boys have lots of energy.

And C calicosrspecial , always appreciate your kind reassuring words too! When do you know cats are past the 'risk point' of not getting along? I'd worried these two weren't past that point so your confidence things are going along normally has been really calming.

Also, during the bonk/hiss incident of a couple days ago, you'd asked if Hawthorne was trying to play but I don't think so. I think he's still a bit too apprehensive/interested in staring. His body language at the gate (with the door closed) has sometimes been play-like (an occasional roll, for example - like he used to do when he and my previous cat Tennyson would play under the slipcover of the sofa) but when the gate is open it's more of an ongoing curiousity, with variable 'ease of distractability' depending on how tasty the treat is.

And yes for Florence it was love at first sight! I saw her photos at the humane society and thought, that little face! And she's such a gem. She loves to burrow under the covers and sleep belly-side up.

Thanks again to you all!

You are very welcome. But please understand the words come from what we are seeing, the environment, the relaity, and that is why they are encouraging.

"I'm taking your advice and just keeping things the same right now - until Hawthorne is able to settle again." - Perfect, that exact right thing to do.

" He's the one most affected by additional people in the home." - Understandable. We are work with that reaction.

"My stepkids are old enough to take good care with the cats" - Great, that is very helpful.

" but Hawthorne is scared of most people (especially boys/men) and sometimes my stepson can still be loud/unpredictable etc. 12 year old boys have lots of energy. " - Yes, that is fine. Yes, boys will be boys!!! It will not be an issue.

"And C calicosrspecial C calicosrspecial , always appreciate your kind reassuring words too!" - I know. It is easy when the human is putting the effort in and the cats are doing well. If there are problems I will let you know.

"When do you know cats are past the 'risk point' of not getting along?" - The unsatisfying answer is "experience", there is just a feeling. So I'll try to put something to that. It is how they interact, how their body language is, how there response is, how they act together and how they act apart. The cats tell us the difficulty and whether there remains risk (and when I say risk I mean when it is possible they can't be intro'd). It is hard to explain but at the end of this I think you will understand better.

"I'd worried these two weren't past that point so your confidence things are going along normally has been really calming." - Yes, I can understand that. I think it is hard for someone who hasn't done many of these. When a person does a lot of these a person just knows. And it is actually pretty easy to know how difficult it will be (whether it is a "typical" intro or a more difficult one etc).

"Also, during the bonk/hiss incident of a couple days ago, you'd asked if Hawthorne was trying to play but I don't think so." - Ok

" I think he's still a bit too apprehensive/interested in staring." - Ok. It depends on how the "bonk" was. The intensity. Again, the interpretation is nuanced but tells us a lot.

"His body language at the gate (with the door closed) has sometimes been play-like (an occasional roll, for example - like he used to do when he and my previous cat Tennyson would play under the slipcover of the sofa)" - This is a good example why I believe they are past the "risk point". No cat would do this (gate with visual or even door closed) if there were real issues. It is a small thing that can go unnoticed but combined with other things I have read it supports my view.

"but when the gate is open it's more of an ongoing curiousity, with variable 'ease of distractability' depending on how tasty the treat is. " - Yes, and that is normal. But you mention "curiosity" which again if there were real issues it would be different. And the fact he can be distracted is another supporting point.

Hopefully that kind of helps you understand why I believe they are past the risk point. It is a bit difficult to explain (almost kind of trying to explain love). You kinda know it when you see/feel it but it is difficult to describe.

"And yes for Florence it was love at first sight! I saw her photos at the humane society and thought, that little face! And she's such a gem. She loves to burrow under the covers and sleep belly-side up." - Awwwwwwww, she is gorgeous and seems like a real sweetheart. I am SO HAPPY to know she found such a great home!! I LOVE her!!! I can see why you fell in love with her at first sight.

You are very welcome. We will get there. THANK YOU for saving another life and being committed to making it work. It really takes knowledge and effort and all the pieces are there for success.

 

[Furmama22]

Hi all,

I'm wondering about your thoughts on another piece of the introduction puzzle. I'm still working on the treat sessions (about 5 minutes each with visual access, twice a day) and meal times (visual access while eating, also twice a day) and that's generally going just fine. Florence still sometimes growls if Hawthorne stares too long, and of course, Hawthorne sometimes stares too long. I now have TWO pet gates up with about two feet between them, so they can see each other but not physically interact. We've noticed that Florence sometimes she also growls out of impatience, say if I take too long to throw the treat or the treat lands somewhere she can't each. So it signals an impatience or annoyance. There continues to be no aggressive body language that I can see. Just the growling on her part (occasionally) and the apprehensive body language/staring on his part - again, this occurs really ONLY when they aren't distracted by treats (i.e. I've gotten too slow in throwing the treats or the meal is over and I haven't closed the door).

But, to my point - the cat behaviourist I talked to suggested trying both of them on Prozac if things weren't improving. I think things ARE continuing to improve but slowly - and we haven't eliminated her growling or his staring. I just don't know if the situation warrants Prozac or if we can continue as we are. Prozac takes at least 4 weeks to see effects and part of me wonders if we might just make it to a good point in four weeks anyways. But then again, it's also already been 7 weeks now and they're improving but they certainly aren't to the 'friendly body language' point yet. I still can't quite tell if they'll meet and want to fight, or just leave each other alone.

So anyways, just curious if people have had experience adding the medication element to the introduction process. I know you can't give medical advice and I'm not seeking that - really just wondering if this seems like a situation where the medication might be helpful to get us over the final hurdle of full visual access and meeting face-to-face meetings. They're both getting CBD oil, and while I know that really only has anecdotal evidence that it works, my sense is that it's helping a bit.

Really I think it's Hawthorne who still needs the confidence/support. I think if he stopped staring and was less apprehensive (and stopped dishing out head bonks), she would be ready to be friends. That's just my feeling.

Thanks again.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Hi all,

I'm wondering about your thoughts on another piece of the introduction puzzle. I'm still working on the treat sessions (about 5 minutes each with visual access, twice a day) and meal times (visual access while eating, also twice a day) and that's generally going just fine. Florence still sometimes growls if Hawthorne stares too long, and of course, Hawthorne sometimes stares too long. I now have TWO pet gates up with about two feet between them, so they can see each other but not physically interact. We've noticed that Florence sometimes she also growls out of impatience, say if I take too long to throw the treat or the treat lands somewhere she can't each. So it signals an impatience or annoyance. There continues to be no aggressive body language that I can see. Just the growling on her part (occasionally) and the apprehensive body language/staring on his part - again, this occurs really ONLY when they aren't distracted by treats (i.e. I've gotten too slow in throwing the treats or the meal is over and I haven't closed the door).

But, to my point - the cat behaviourist I talked to suggested trying both of them on Prozac if things weren't improving. I think things ARE continuing to improve but slowly - and we haven't eliminated her growling or his staring. I just don't know if the situation warrants Prozac or if we can continue as we are. Prozac takes at least 4 weeks to see effects and part of me wonders if we might just make it to a good point in four weeks anyways. But then again, it's also already been 7 weeks now and they're improving but they certainly aren't to the 'friendly body language' point yet. I still can't quite tell if they'll meet and want to fight, or just leave each other alone.

So anyways, just curious if people have had experience adding the medication element to the introduction process. I know you can't give medical advice and I'm not seeking that - really just wondering if this seems like a situation where the medication might be helpful to get us over the final hurdle of full visual access and meeting face-to-face meetings. They're both getting CBD oil, and while I know that really only has anecdotal evidence that it works, my sense is that it's helping a bit.

Really I think it's Hawthorne who still needs the confidence/support. I think if he stopped staring and was less apprehensive (and stopped dishing out head bonks), she would be ready to be friends. That's just my feeling.

Thanks again.

"I'm still working on the treat sessions (about 5 minutes each with visual access, twice a day) and meal times (visual access while eating, also twice a day) and that's generally going just fine." - Perfect. It is all about quality of time spent over quantity (length of time).

" Florence still sometimes growls if Hawthorne stares too long, and of course, Hawthorne sometimes stares too long. " - That is normal. A growl is communication, what happens after is what is important. Just try to distract and reassure that all is ok.

"I now have TWO pet gates up with about two feet between them, so they can see each other but not physically interact." - Ok, just helps it be a positive encounter.

"We've noticed that Florence sometimes she also growls out of impatience, say if I take too long to throw the treat or the treat lands somewhere she can't each. So it signals an impatience or annoyance.: - Hmmmmm. You sure she is not growling at him?

"There continues to be no aggressive body language that I can see." _ THAT is GRAT and another point of evidence that they are beyond the risk point.

" Just the growling on her part (occasionally)" - That is normal and fine. It is if you can get her focused away from him and enjoying something that eases the growling that is important.

"and the apprehensive body language/staring on his part" - Yes, this is a sign of a lack of confidence/trust which is normal for a resident cat. If he then is less apprehensive at some point after then it is positive.

" - again, this occurs really ONLY when they aren't distracted by treats (i.e. I've gotten too slow in throwing the treats or the meal is over and I haven't closed the door)." - Yes, if there were real problems it would be happening all the time. Just make sure throwing the treats isn't perceived as negative. If possible placing is better but I know it can be difficult. And again, as long as nothing negative really happens (attack, etc) then they will get over the staring, growling.

"But, to my point - the cat behaviourist I talked to suggested trying both of them on Prozac if things weren't improving." - Yes, they tend to suggest that.

"I think things ARE continuing to improve but slowly" - Totally agree. I am not worried about success.

" - and we haven't eliminated her growling or his staring." - It just takes time. The growling can happen after they are successfully intro'd. It is just communication. If it is respected and nothing bad happens after it is fine.

"I just don't know if the situation warrants Prozac or if we can continue as we are. Prozac takes at least 4 weeks to see effects and part of me wonders if we might just make it to a good point in four weeks anyways." - Personally, I don't think there is any need. I like to build a strong base of trust rather than cover up issues with the hope that covering up leads to the eventual success.

"But then again, it's also already been 7 weeks now and they're improving but they certainly aren't to the 'friendly body language' point yet." - 7 weeks is really no time at all. I don't get a sense their body language is terrible and the negativity (real negativity) doesn't seem to be happening.

"I still can't quite tell if they'll meet and want to fight, or just leave each other alone." - I get a sense they will have some swatting, chasing, etc right now BUT they wouldn't try to kill each other. But I haven't seen them in person. But all the evidence suggests it would be a normal too early encounter.

"So anyways, just curious if people have had experience adding the medication element to the introduction process." - I personally never give or suggest mood drugs. For better or worse. I never use Feliway either. I just do the basics to makes ure there is a strong base not covered up by anything.

"I know you can't give medical advice and I'm not seeking that - really just wondering if this seems like a situation where the medication might be helpful to get us over the final hurdle of full visual access and meeting face-to-face meetings. They're both getting CBD oil, and while I know that really only has anecdotal evidence that it works, my sense is that it's helping a bit." - Ok

"Really I think it's Hawthorne who still needs the confidence/support." - That is common and normal. The resident cat pretty much always has the most difficult transition as it is their territory being "invaded" and cats are territorial creatures. The new cat doesn't own any territory so it is easier to add then defend territory. That is why we try to show the resident cat that the new cat is not a threat to their physical safety, food, litter box, etc.

" I think if he stopped staring and was less apprehensive" - Well, depends on how the staring is. BUT if you can get him to look away that will help. The apprehension is a confidence issue and confident cats are more likely to accept and be accepted. SO building confidence is very important.

" (and stopped dishing out head bonks)," - Well, yes probably. But if that is all it is and she rebounds quickly then she isn't too bothered by them.

"she would be ready to be friends. That's just my feeling." - She seems good. I think they are going to be fine. Everything seems very normal and expected. They both seem like great cats and they are in a great home. Who knows if they will be really close or just be friends or just accept each other. BUT I think they will both have great lives in the same home.

I am not at all worried. Just keep up the great work.

You are very welcome.

 

[Furmama22]

Yes I think she is growling at him. I don't think she would growl if he weren't there - it's brought out by his presence.

She also sometimes will rub her face on the gate when he's there. I think it's because she's excited about the treats and not him, hahah, but still that seems like something positive.

How long do you think intros like this usually take? I know it's so dependent on the individual cats in each case but do you think we have another 3 or 4 weeks, or more?

And I like you're idea of living great lives in the same home. Really that's all I aspire to! A comfy cozy home where they can each lead a nice life and if they happen to also start to like each other, so much the better! But I'll settle for just leaving each other alone.

 

[Furmama22]

And just ignore my question about how much time left. Sometimes my desire for certainty outweighs the fact that no one can predict how much longer the intro will go! We'll just keep at it.

 

[pearl99]

And just ignore my question about how much time left. Sometimes my desire for certainty outweighs the fact that no one can predict how much longer the intro will go! We'll just keep at it.

Yes no one can predict! Depends on the cats themselves, personalities, traits, how it's done, how much time people have to put in. It is work.
I'll add my 2 cents on your other points-
Prozac- I've only done that once, and it only made the kitty more sleepy. Nothing else changed. And there is the fact that it would still need to be weaned off, and what I'm seeing in your intro it's not necessary. I agree with calicosrspecial about how it's going for you, though she's much more experienced than me.
I can see meds for extreme separation anxiety, destruction, serious aggression but I like the idea of doing intros that aren't worrying naturally and not having to wean off then. Because things may just surface then and still have to be dealt with.

Florence rubbing on the gate- to me it's leaving her scent on the gate. It's good! When Hawthorne approaches he may get a dose of Florence scent. I think of it as making their house a home with their scent around, is comforting/homey to cats to have their scent around.

Just an example- no way saying how long yours might take- but I can just now let my last adoptee, Ziggy, out in the house all the time, except at night with my other 3 cats. She came last March. This is a different situation than you because Ziggy never lived with other cats and was 13 years when I adopted her, so it was long and drawn out and I go slowly. Plus she had 3 other cats to get used to. So it can take awhile just FYI. But mine is a way different situation than you. I had thoughts of "should I have done this?? Did I make a good decision??" But the above statements about having a great home even if they aren't buddies is spot on. Peaceful coexistence is what they've got here and a good human. .

 

[Mamanyt1953]

I think, and I believe that C calicosrspecial will agree, that you are a long, LONG way from needing to think about medication! This really is coming along very well. They have occasional disagreements, but overall are really beginning to accept one another! Don't forget...there are cat behaviorists and there are cat behaviorists. For me, medication is a last-ditch effort when everything else has been a total failure...and your cats are going from one small triumph to another, with a time out for a (small) heated discussion (and those happen even with well-bonded pairs!).

 

[pearl99]

I think, and I believe that C calicosrspecial will agree, that you are a long, LONG way from needing to think about medication! This really is coming along very well. They have occasional disagreements, but overall are really beginning to accept one another! Don't forget...there are cat behaviorists and there are cat behaviorists. For me, medication is a last-ditch effort when everything else has been a total failure...and your cats are going from one small triumph to another, with a time out for a (small) heated discussion (and those happen even with well-bonded pairs!).

Yes yes and yes!

 

[Furmama22]

Yes no one can predict! Depends on the cats themselves, personalities, traits, how it's done, how much time people have to put in. It is work.
I'll add my 2 cents on your other points-
Prozac- I've only done that once, and it only made the kitty more sleepy. Nothing else changed. And there is the fact that it would still need to be weaned off, and what I'm seeing in your intro it's not necessary. I agree with calicosrspecial about how it's going for you, though she's much more experienced than me.
I can see meds for extreme separation anxiety, destruction, serious aggression but I like the idea of doing intros that aren't worrying naturally and not having to wean off then. Because things may just surface then and still have to be dealt with.

Florence rubbing on the gate- to me it's leaving her scent on the gate. It's good! When Hawthorne approaches he may get a dose of Florence scent. I think of it as making their house a home with their scent around, is comforting/homey to cats to have their scent around.

Just an example- no way saying how long yours might take- but I can just now let my last adoptee, Ziggy, out in the house all the time, except at night with my other 3 cats. She came last March. This is a different situation than you because Ziggy never lived with other cats and was 13 years when I adopted her, so it was long and drawn out and I go slowly. Plus she had 3 other cats to get used to. So it can take awhile just FYI. But mine is a way different situation than you. I had thoughts of "should I have done this?? Did I make a good decision??" But the above statements about having a great home even if they aren't buddies is spot on. Peaceful coexistence is what they've got here and a good human. .

pearl99 , just out of curiousity, how did you keep your spirits up during the 10 months it took to do the intro for Ziggy? How did you keep her spirits up?

 

[Furmama22]

Yes yes and yes!

Thanks all for this great feedback! I didn't feel like I wanted to go the Prozac route although the temptation is always there that it will somehow magically make things go smoothly. The last time I did a cat intro was 10 years ago and we kind of kept them separate for a few days then let them meet and it was easy peasy from there. But both cats had an easy going temperament. I think I had no idea what I was getting into with this, to be honest.

I just need to keep trusting the process and trust that even if I can't SEE how we'll get to the end, it will become clear as we go.

I really appreciate having the birds eye view of your expert perspectives on my introduction process. It's been exceptionally helpful to know that all things considered this is proceeding in a 'normal' (albeit slow) fashion.

I will update if there are any new developments. Right now still in a holding pattern - trying to keep Hawthorne confident (very hard), trying to keep Florence entertained (she likes to play, so that's easy enough), and trying to make their short visual access meetings positive and fun (generally, successful).

I'd like to start making the sessions a bit longer (without treats, so they don't become chubsters). So in a few days we might try play-time at the gate first, before the treats, or something else. So far treats seem the most successful in keeping them distracted from one another.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Yes I think she is growling at him. I don't think she would growl if he weren't there - it's brought out by his presence.

She also sometimes will rub her face on the gate when he's there. I think it's because she's excited about the treats and not him, hahah, but still that seems like something positive.

How long do you think intros like this usually take? I know it's so dependent on the individual cats in each case but do you think we have another 3 or 4 weeks, or more?

And I like you're idea of living great lives in the same home. Really that's all I aspire to! A comfy cozy home where they can each lead a nice life and if they happen to also start to like each other, so much the better! But I'll settle for just leaving each other alone.

Sorry for the delay. I get very tired nowadays in the early afternoon.

"Yes I think she is growling at him. I don't think she would growl if he weren't there - it's brought out by his presence. " - Ok, that is normal. How does he react? And how long does it last? And what does she do after?

I had a feral in my colony. She growled at me EVERY TIME I came to feed her. For a while it was unsettling. Then I was like "whatever" and just fed her. Once she told me to watch it she would eat with me right there. And we did this over and over. She never stopped. But it was fine.

"She also sometimes will rub her face on the gate when he's there. I think it's because she's excited about the treats and not him, hahah, but still that seems like something positive." - Yes, it is positive. She is "owning" it. The more territory she feels like she owns the more secure she will be and therefore more accepting. I like she does that.

"How long do you think intros like this usually take? I know it's so dependent on the individual cats in each case but do you think we have another 3 or 4 weeks, or more?" - Very difficult to know right now. I would guess more than 4 weeks. It is not a question of "IF" they will be intro'd but "WHEN".

"And I like you're idea of living great lives in the same home. Really that's all I aspire to! A comfy cozy home where they can each lead a nice life and if they happen to also start to like each other, so much the better! But I'll settle for just leaving each other alone." - I think all is going to be well. I am not at all worried.

Pearl and MamanyT are exactly correct in everything.

"just out of curiousity, how did you keep your spirits up during the 10 months it took to do the intro for Ziggy? How did you keep her spirits up? " - The humans have the more difficult time than the cats. The cats will be fine for however long it takes with how we do it. SO for the humans, support and doing the right things. You'll see the progress that will help you get along as will the support we give. It is easier than you fear.

"Thanks all for this great feedback! I didn't feel like I wanted to go the Prozac route although the temptation is always there that it will somehow magically make things go smoothly. The last time I did a cat intro was 10 years ago and we kind of kept them separate for a few days then let them meet and it was easy peasy from there. But both cats had an easy going temperament. I think I had no idea what I was getting into with this, to be honest. " - Most people do know that it is usually more difficult. But I would not call your difficult by any stretch. Normal is what I call your intro.

"I just need to keep trusting the process and trust that even if I can't SEE how we'll get to the end, it will become clear as we go." - Yes. It is easy when a person has experience. I work with a lot of new people to intros and your feelings/fears etc are very common. Then it progresses and there is success and the people are kinda amazed that it actually worked. Whereas we see it all the time so expect it to work.

"I really appreciate having the birds eye view of your expert perspectives on my introduction process. It's been exceptionally helpful to know that all things considered this is proceeding in a 'normal' (albeit slow) fashion." - I am not sure I would call it "slow". It is a normal pace and going well.

"I will update if there are any new developments." - Great

" Right now still in a holding pattern" - You are in the positive reinforcing process. It is like practicing dance or piano or anything. It is repeat and reinforce.

" - trying to keep Hawthorne confident (very hard)" - Exactly, keep that up. The more confident he is the more likely he will accept and be accepted. And cofndience comes from Play, Food, Height and Love but also positive encounters.

"trying to keep Florence entertained (she likes to play, so that's easy enough)" - Great. And play builds confidence.

" and trying to make their short visual access meetings positive and fun (generally, successful)." - Exactly and this is a BIG part of it. This is the reinforcing of the trust and building the confidence.

"I'd like to start making the sessions a bit longer (without treats, so they don't become chubsters)." - Ok, just do what you need to keep it positive. It is all about quality over quantity. And at this point don't worry about weight as that can be dealt with after they are intro'd.

"So in a few days we might try play-time at the gate first, before the treats, or something else." - One thing with play, it can get them in hunting mode so watch that it doesn't cause them to turn on each other. If it does distract them and they are positive then it is grea.t Then feed after. Again. anything to have them focused on something other than each other in a positive way.

"So far treats seem the most successful in keeping them distracted from one another." - Yes, food usually is the best way. I use food with ferals to build trust and it works REALLY WELL.

You are doing great. Don't worry, they will be intro'd successfully. Just keep up the great work. Positive associations, positive encounters and build confidence.