Acidity And Raw Cat Food...one Problem Solved...another One Introduced

[orange&white]

Poor baby. Yes, take it slowly.

 

[valentine319]

Here's one that I liked suggesting (towards bottom) a meat bone broth should be used in the beginning before raw to heal the GI tract.
Feline Inflammatory Bowel Disease: Nature and Treatment - Feline Nutrition

Feline Inflammatory Bowel Disease: Nature and Treatment - Feline Nutrition

 

[james kelly]

Here's one that I liked suggesting (towards bottom) a meat bone broth should be used in the beginning before raw to heal the GI tract.
Feline Inflammatory Bowel Disease: Nature and Treatment - Feline Nutrition

Feline Inflammatory Bowel Disease: Nature and Treatment - Feline Nutrition

Thanks...I am using rabbbit bone broth...our other cat eats rabbit which we buy and then steam and then add add a premix to make our own cooked rabbit food ..so we use the leftover bones to make a broth...

 

[valentine319]

Thanks...I am using rabbbit bone broth...our other cat eats rabbit which we buy and then steam and then add add a premix to make our own cooked rabbit food ..so we use the leftover bones to make a broth...

Great idea!

 

[pogo16]

James Kelly: If your cat is vomiting (versus regurgitating), try a different protein. He might be rabbit-intolerant despite the fact that it's a novel protein. Try turkey or pork. My cat can't tolerate duck. Also, try to feed more often and in smaller amounts. If you feed 2x/daily; try 4x daily.

By the way, I would try to figure out the proportion of bone in the raw rabbit mix, or at least find out if the head is included. Whole rabbit is quite boney.

 

[james kelly]

James Kelly: If your cat is vomiting (versus regurgitating), try a different protein. He might be rabbit-intolerant despite the fact that it's a novel protein. Try turkey or pork. My cat can't tolerate duck. Also, try to feed more often and in smaller amounts. If you feed 2x/daily; try 4x daily.

By the way, I would try to figure out the proportion of bone in the raw rabbit mix, or at least find out if the head is included. Whole rabbit is quite boney.

Hello
Ive tried turkey,duck,venison,lamb,pork in their limited ingredient canned cooked versions and the results have always been the same unfortunately.
I dont think its a protein problem ...I think its related to the cooking of the meat which cuases denaturation of the protein which in turn causes inflammation.
This is probably why raw worked in stopping the loose stools and blood (colitis)
I guess i could try other raw meats...and see how they work out...but if it is an acidity problem then probably tthen it wouldnt make any difference changing meats...I will try different meats in a week when I am sure the vomiting has ceased...

The voniting seems to be a stomach acidity problem ...possibly he is not used to the change in pH when raw food is consumed....its the only logical reason I can come up with as he has not vomited before on canned and since I have abandoned the raw the vomiting ceaseed,,,but now i am back to loose stools...which happens when he gors back to canned...
Oh well...Il figure it out...its trial and error
Head is not included in the raw mix.I talked to the owner who girnds it himself about it
Thanks for your input

 

[sophie1]

This is very mysterious. I'm glad you got your cat checked out thoroughly by the vet.

It might just be that the transition was too fast. If he wasn't vomiting on a mix of raw and canned, you could go back to the smallest proportion of canned that is required to stop the problem. It'll also be reassuring to know that it's a simple diet issue, if going back on part canned/part raw fixes it. If so, let him stay on that a week or two, then try gradually taking away the canned, but do it more slowly than you did previously.

Some other things you could try, to get your cat off canned and symptom-free as quickly as possible:
- Rad Cat, if you can find it. It uses eggshell calcium rather than ground bone.
- Homemade food - first try using eggshell calcium in place of bone, then try cooking the meat. There are recipes on this thread and on the catinfo.org website.
- A slightly wild idea: Honest Kitchen Grace. It's a dehydrated cooked food with an unfortunate but tolerable amount of carbs in the form of potato and pumpkin, but it's much less processed than canned and has none of the crappy ingredients that trigger IBS symptoms. If so, you can use it to help get your cat off canned food. My brother used Honest Kitchen for his IBS cat and reports that she did better on it than raw food.

 

[pogo16]

No. I meant try a different RAW protein. It sounds like you have two things going on: too much acid and possibly a protein intolerance.

For acid pukes: I would try more meals or feed your kitty a few FD treats, then feed him the meal.
For vomiting, I would also try a different raw protein. Food intolerance is based on dosage so even if your cat handled rabbit just fine as a canned food, he's probably getting much more rabbit protein in the raw food format. The difference in the amount of protein might be enough to prompt the vomiting. In humans, it's similar to a lactose intolerance. Some people can drink a sip of milk, but drinking a cup of milk will trigger GI issues.

(Even without the head, raw ground rabbit will have a lot of bone. Some kitties handle it fine, but a lot of people dilute it with more raw meat. )

 

[orange&white]

You said you were using digestive enzymes and probiotics with the rabbit. Any other supplements (or medications) added? Hopefully you were adding taurine, but anything else added that might cause a problem?

 

[sophie1]

I'm given to wonder if protein allergies are really so prevalent, since that always seems to be #1 on the differential in every situation regardless of what else might be going on. If that were true, the problem should have been present on the canned diet - assuming that the canned foods contained the same proteins fed in the raw diet. I guess we will need OP to clear up that question.

 

[james kelly]

This is very mysterious. I'm glad you got your cat checked out thoroughly by the vet.

It might just be that the transition was too fast. If he wasn't vomiting on a mix of raw and canned, you could go back to the smallest proportion of canned that is required to stop the problem. It'll also be reassuring to know that it's a simple diet issue, if going back on part canned/part raw fixes it. If so, let him stay on that a week or two, then try gradually taking away the canned, but do it more slowly than you did previously.

Some other things you could try, to get your cat off canned and symptom-free as quickly as possible:
- Rad Cat, if you can find it. It uses eggshell calcium rather than ground bone.
- Homemade food - first try using eggshell calcium in place of bone, then try cooking the meat. There are recipes on this thread and on the catinfo.org website.
- A slightly wild idea: Honest Kitchen Grace. It's a dehydrated cooked food with an unfortunate but tolerable amount of carbs in the form of potato and pumpkin, but it's much less processed than canned and has none of the crappy ingredients that trigger IBS symptoms. If so, you can use it to help get your cat off canned food. My brother used Honest Kitchen for his IBS cat and reports that she did better on it than raw food.

Hi
Thank you for your advice.I am using egg shell as his source of calcium in his premix when I prepare home cooked food.I cook the rabbit by steamimg it and then I remove the meat from the rabbit.From this i add the premix which contains egg shell calcium and other nutrients like like taurine according to the instructions .
I use the leftover bones to make a broth.

Unfortunately home cooked rabbit or pork had no effect on his pudding stools and blood.Only 100 percent raw rabbit borught his stool to normal.I hate to transition him too slowly becuase of the bloody stools which remains even if i do a 50 percent raw and 50 percent home cooked .Even 75 percent raw has no effect...


After having him on 100 percent raw the dirrhrea and bloody stools were gone within 24 hours
Rad cat is not available in Canada uinfortunately.
I can get raw rabbit from our local market.Its skinned and just has the liver and kidneys and no head.
Maybe I will make my own raw.
Anything with potato or pumpkin makes his stools worse as i found out when I tried the Go brand of canned cat food which has potato in it Im fairly sure carbs are out for this kitty.Pumkin was one of the first things i tried when i got him form the spca...about an 1/8th of a teaspoon to his food and increase gradually but it had no effect.
This why i have been trying LID (limited ingredient) canned..from Hounds and gatos or other such brands...with no carbs...

I tried Stella and Chewys freeze dried and Primal. freeze dried and neither made any improvement.

Thank you for the suggestion for Honest Kitchen Grace...I will see if i can find it in Canada
Anything is worth a try!! He is only a year old so I think I'll figure it out eventually

 

[valentine319]

I use something called tummyworks to keep my cats poop a bit more solid when she's on canned. It's like a constant struggle. I'm just getting her on raw. I really hope you get it figured out. Maybe tummyworks would help in the meantime, if you have it there. She's 11.6 lbs and takes 1 1/2 scoops maintenance. Just thought I'd share in case it helps.

 

[orange&white]

You're unfortunately having to throw darts at the problem since the canned food produces lose poop with no vomiting and the raw food produces solid poops but with nausea.

One of the things that seems to produce solid, firm stools in raw fed cats is the use of whole raw bone. When you cook the rabbit, you are using eggshell calcium instead of raw bone, and continue to see pudding poop. I don't want to experiment on your kitty like a lab rat , but I wonder what would happen if you served cooked meat with some small pieces of raw meaty bone for calcium? Just thinking out loud...

 

[james kelly]

You're unfortunately having to throw darts at the problem since the canned food produces lose poop with no vomiting and the raw food produces solid poops but with nausea.

One of the things that seems to produce solid, firm stools in raw fed cats is the use of whole raw bone. When you cook the rabbit, you are using eggshell calcium instead of raw bone, and continue to see pudding poop. I don't want to experiment on your kitty like a lab rat , but I wonder what would happen if you served cooked meat with some small pieces of raw meaty bone for calcium? Just thinking out loud...

 

[james kelly]

Cooked rabbit with raw bone...I hadnt thought of that ...hmmm...thanks...I will give it some thought...I didnt know that raw bone... has an effect on stools...
i have read though that broth prepared from bones can sooth inflammation

"Meat and fish stocks provide building blocks for the rapidly growing cells of the gut lining and they have a soothing effect on any areas of inflammation in the gut. Bone broth is rich in minerals including calcium, phosphorous, magnesium, sodium, potassium, sulphate, fluoride, all delivered in an easily absorbable form. The minerals will improve immune function and support healthy digestion. Bone broth is also rich in collagen. Collagen is a protein containing two important amino acids, proline and glycine, and it will help heal the lining of the gut to relieve intestinal inflammation. Broths also contain glycosaminoglycans, also called GAGs, important building blocks for tissue repair." feline-nutrition.org

Feline Inflammatory Bowel Disease: Nature and Treatment - Feline Nutrition

 

[james kelly]

I use something called tummyworks to keep my cats poop a bit more solid when she's on canned. It's like a constant struggle. I'm just getting her on raw. I really hope you get it figured out. Maybe tummyworks would help in the meantime, if you have it there. She's 11.6 lbs and takes 1 1/2 scoops maintenance. Just thought I'd share in case it helps.

Thank you for your sharing your experience with Tummyworks.
I will read up on it.I had not heard of it before.Good to know it provides relief for your cats

James

 

[orange&white]

Bone broth is really good.

I'm not sure if the solid stools are impacted by calcium-any source or calcium-from bone. I was trying to analyze what the difference is in the ingredients you are using in cooked meals versus raw meals with the same protein, and the calcium source stood out.

 

[valentine319]

Tummyworks is just a blend of probiotics but really help with mushy poop. I got it through amazon. My cat takes 1 1/2 scoops when on soft and is 11.6 lbs. I emailed asking about using 2 scoops and they responded right back saying that don't recommend using 2 scoops at her size for more than a week or two. It's a nicely large container. Just another option while trying to figure things out. 2 scoops might constipate.

I do have baby spoons I use to give her a spoon or two of fage yogurt plain. It helps their tummy but won't over firm poop. Be sure to only use plain no flavors and no sweeteners.

 

[james kelly]

Tummyworks is just a blend of probiotics but really help with mushy poop. I got it through amazon. My cat takes 1 1/2 scoops when on soft and is 11.6 lbs. I emailed asking about using 2 scoops and they responded right back saying that don't recommend using 2 scoops at her size for more than a week or two. It's a nicely large container. Just another option while trying to figure things out. 2 scoops might constipate.

I do have baby spoons I use to give her a spoon or two of fage yogurt plain. It helps their tummy but won't over firm poop. Be sure to only use plain no flavors and no sweeteners.

Thank you for your advice on how much to give.I have tried fortiflora,a different probiotic but without success but then I was told that it is not a complete probiotic to give so I was llooking around for another probiotic to give him.
I do have a product by Vitality Science
but I havent tried it yet
I

 

[valentine319]

I didn't go with fortiflora because the main ingredient is animal digest.

Definitely try the TRDV first. It looks interesting in the holistic side.