A question about noses

[lucho]

Just curious: Since the beginning we noticed that Pimenta was a bit different. Of course, she isn't any "breed" at all, being from a nearby feral colony. All the brazilian cats that I've seen have a typical nose/bridge (typical cats have typical noses, no surprise there). Pantera is a good example of this. But Pimenta has a more oriental nose, or more accurately, her nose is more reminiscent of a bull terrier dog. It was more pronounced as a kitten, but is still present now. At the colony her sister- named Pandora by faculty (the feral colony is behind a nearby school) has the same trait, although to a lesser degree. Likewise, there are two young cats who are apparently Pandora's babies (Pimenta's "nephews" ) who also have the Bull Terrier nose. I haven't seen this anywhere else apart from true Siamese and Oriental shorthairs. What say you all? Has anyone else seen this among non-pedigreed cats?

As you can see, Pantera has an absolutely typical nose/bridge

 

[FeebysOwner]

Hi. Do you think it looks like what they call a 'Roman' nose? See article link below which has a pic of it for comparison to Pimenta's nose.
Cat Nose - All About Your Cat's Nose - Cat-World

Regardless, pretty kitties - both of them!

 

[lucho]

Yes, reading the article Pimenta has a roman nose, although hers is more convex than the one in the photo. Interesting, because she is all-natural, as "un-pedigreed" as you can get

 

[Meowmee]

I think you mean a roman nose which is aquiline, my angie had that and was part siamese. Quinn is pb siamese and does not have that so not all siamese do. Os are not the “ true” siamese, not the more extreme ones now anyway, they were bred later. Traditional and often classic siamese trad who were the original siamese cats have a different look, there are 3 different head / body shapes. Nfc also have a sloped nose often but it is straight, not really aquiline and not all pb nfc have that.
Anyway your cat is a beauty, I love that nose Bith are beauties, I am partial to your black kitty, she looks so delicate and refined.

 

[lucho]

I think you mean a roman nose which is aquiline, my angie had that and was part siamese. Quinn is pb siamese and does not have that so not all siamese do. Os are not the “ true” siamese, not the more extreme ones now anyway, they were bred later. Traditional and often classic siamese trad who were the original siamese cats have a different look, there are 3 different head / body shapes. Nfc also have a sloped nose often but it is straight, not really aquiline and not all pb nfc have that.
Anyway your cat is a beauty, I love that nose Bith are beauties, I am partial to your black kitty, she looks so delicate and refined.

I mention it because there are very few pedigreed cats here in Rio de Janeiro, and probably no Siamese, especially on this side of town. Quite a few ferals have the siamese/himalayan color points and blue eyes, but the only cats with the roman nose are Pimenta, Pandora, and Pimenta's nephews. It gets attention because it is so rare- only four known examples out of a population of a few hundred thousand

The black kitty is Pantera; she only looks delicate and refined in the photo because she was distracted, looking at something on the ceiling We have suspected for some time that Pantera might have a bit of British Shorthair DNA in her because of some of her traits: she's robust and muscular, such that she is frequently thought to be male, her aloof manner with others (at least when she's not bullying them mercilessly. She's even intimidated the wife on a handful of occaisions), and her fur, which is in her summer coat right now but has an almost wooly texture to it.

Black Cats Only

 

[Meowmee]

I mention it because there are very few pedigreed cats here in Rio de Janeiro, and probably no Siamese, especially on this side of town. Quite a few ferals have the siamese/himalayan color points and blue eyes, but the only cats with the roman nose are Pimenta, Pandora, and Pimenta's nephews. It gets attention because it is so rare- only four known examples out of a population of a few hundred thousand

The black kitty is Pantera; she only looks delicate and refined in the photo because she was distracted, looking at something on the ceiling We have suspected for some time that Pantera might have a bit of British Shorthair DNA in her because of some of her traits: she's robust and muscular, such that she is frequently thought to be male, her aloof manner with others (at least when she's not bullying them mercilessly. She's even intimidated the wife on a handful of occaisions), and her fur, which is in her summer coat right now but has an almost wooly texture to it.

Black Cats Only

I think you are right that it is is rare in cats. Angelina’s mom was a feral cat who was euthanized. She did not have the large nose profile your guy has but a more delicate subtle aquiline nose which was so beautiful. She was the only of my kitties ever to have it. If I push the fluff down on the top of Quinn’s nose he looks a tiny bit aquiline too. He is most like her in temperament, but he was Angelina on steroids x a trillion as a kitten, being a pb siamese and very dominant.
Your kitties are beauties That is interesting it is in the outdoor population, someone’s kitties mixed in prolly at some point. I love their names Pantera and Pimenta

I wonder how the nose structure is passed on, not like color traits prolly I guess.
I just found this article which says it can be genetic, it was a genetic mutation prolly at first, or injury. I knew that it has caused severe breathing issues in some siamese cats who also have the extreme wedge shaped heads, someone’s cats on a siamese group sadly were very ill due to this.

In my area in the US we have very few color points in the outdoor population, I have only seen a handful if that in many years.

What is a Roman Nose in Cats? - Kitty Devotees

 

[lucho]

I read the article, and I don`t think I really agree with most of what`s written. According to the author, a roman nose is a guarantee of a short, unhappy life. This is definitely not true: none of them have any difficulty breathing, nor have they had any type of infection. The only thing that rings true is that it is genetic in origin.

I remember when I still lived in Texas (I live and work in Brazil, but I`m not brazilian. I`m an expat from Texas) the ferals were always either tuxedo or some variation of tabby. Here in Rio de Janeiro it`s not that different: the large majority of strays and ferals are some variation of tabby. But there is a significant percentage- almost 20% from what I`ve seen- of color points.

 

[Meowmee]

I read the article, and I don`t think I really agree with most of what`s written. According to the author, a roman nose is a guarantee of a short, unhappy life. This is definitely not true: none of them have any difficulty breathing, nor have they had any type of infection. The only thing that rings true is that it is genetic in origin.

I remember when I still lived in Texas (I live and work in Brazil, but I`m not brazilian. I`m an expat from Texas) the ferals were always either tuxedo or some variation of tabby. Here in Rio de Janeiro it`s not that different: the large majority of strays and ferals are some variation of tabby. But there is a significant percentage- almost 20% from what I`ve seen- of color points.

I was wondering about that part too, Angie did not have any breathing problems etc. It is well known that extreme wedgie siamese cats do have those issues, because of the face shape as well. And it is well known smush faced brachycephalic cats and dogs have these issues too. Persians due to the tiny nose as well.

 

[lucho]

Yes, Persians, Pugs, british and french bulldogs all are well-documented as having breathing issues due to the smooshed muzzle (this is exacerbated in a climate like Rio de Janeiro. Poor things ). It seems that, like many things, the problem is when taken to extremes

 

[lucho]

A quick aside: I would not trust the author of that site: in one article she writes that it is not normal for black cats to have yellow eyes WTF!!?? Where does she live??

In another article she writes that the Brazilian shorthair breed is one of the least sociable breeds of cat, and that the Bengal`s temperment is driven by fear of humans, thus leaving them incapable of affection. I wonder if this person has any actual experience with cats

 

[Meowmee]

A quick aside: I would not trust the author of that site: in one article she writes that it is not normal for black cats to have yellow eyes ***!!?? Where does she live??

In another article she writes that the Brazilian shorthair breed is one of the least sociable breeds of cat, and that the Bengal`s temperment is driven by fear of humans, thus leaving them incapable of affection. I wonder if this person has any actual experience with cats

I will check on that, she said she has a cat who suffered a chronic illness. It does seem she has said a lot of weird stuff

 

[Maurey]

A Roman nose is what Birmans have, not a wedge head, which is what OPs cat has. Wouldn’t trust any of that article, to be quite honest.
For reference, a kitty Roman nose — a bump on the nose bridge

 

[Meowmee]

Just curious: Since the beginning we noticed that Pimenta was a bit different. Of course, she isn't any "breed" at all, being from a nearby feral colony. All the brazilian cats that I've seen have a typical nose/bridge (typical cats have typical noses, no surprise there). Pantera is a good example of this. But Pimenta has a more oriental nose, or more accurately, her nose is more reminiscent of a bull terrier dog. It was more pronounced as a kitten, but is still present now. At the colony her sister- named Pandora by faculty (the feral colony is behind a nearby school) has the same trait, although to a lesser degree. Likewise, there are two young cats who are apparently Pandora's babies (Pimenta's "nephews" ) who also have the Bull Terrier nose. I haven't seen this anywhere else apart from true Siamese and Oriental shorthairs. What say you all? Has anyone else seen this among non-pedigreed cats?

As you can see, Pantera has an absolutely typical nose/bridge

Here is my Angie with her profile, it was hard to get a pic of her nose profile.. you can’t see it here but she had bright green eyes.

 

[lucho]

Here is my Angie with her profile, it was hard to get a pic of her nose profile.. you can’t see it here but she had bright green eyes.

View attachment 420743

Diificult to see from the photo, but it seems she had a nose very similar to Pimenta's. Lovely pattern of fur

 

[Meowmee]

Diificult to see from the photo, but it seems she had a nose very similar to Pimenta's. Lovely pattern of fur

Yes just a bit more delicate. From the front you couldnt see it and even the side it was hard to get a pic. She was a tortie