A cat with legume allergy and fenugreek in Rawz cans

[Dodahm]

Hi! I am wondering if there's anyone who has a cat with legume allergy and regularly feeds Rawz pate cans with fenugreek in it.

Based on my research, fenugreek is a legume and may cause cross-reactivity with other legumes such as chickpeas and lentils, both of which my kitty is allergic to.

I am not sure if I try these cans on her and find out if she is allergic to them or just forget about them. My kitty has quite many dietary restrictions (sensitivity to gums, agar-agar / many allergies / and I recently found out that I need to lower her protein intake based on her blood work) and Rawz cans seem perfect for what I need as they are relatively low in protein compared to other wet food but still low in carb and high in fat instead. So many dry or wet foods that are low in protein are quite high in carb and have a bunch of unnecessary ingredients like corn and rice....

If you could share your experience, it will be much appreciated. Thanks!

 

[FeebysOwner]

Hi. I guess if it were me, I'd consider your cat allergic to fenugreek since it is a legume. If you had testing done to determine her allergy, you could consult with the test takers to ask if fenugreek would be considered the same as chickpeas and lentils. Other than a possible source of one of the vitamins/minerals that a cat might need, legumes have about the same redeeming value as corn and rice - mostly filler/thickeners.

What about your cat's blood work suggests she needs a lower protein intake?

 

[Dodahm]

Hi. I guess if it were me, I'd consider your cat allergic to fenugreek since it is a legume. If you had testing done to determine her allergy, you could consult with the test takers to ask if fenugreek would be considered the same as chickpeas and lentils. Other than a possible source of one of the vitamins/minerals that a cat might need, legumes have about the same redeeming value as corn and rice - mostly filler/thickeners.

What about your cat's blood work suggests she needs a lower protein intake?

Thank you for your reply. Yeah, based on further research, it seems like I probably shouldn't test fenugreek on her. It is in the same family as lentils, peas, and chickpeas and share the same allergens (proteins).

I used to feed her Acana's dry food when she was a stray and unfortunately it has quite a bit of legumes. Upon adopting her, I found out that she had intestinal thickening, which took 6 months of her staying on prescription hydrolyzed food to become normal. My vet suspected legume allergy as the cause. Her allergy test results also confirmed that she is highly allergic to lentils and moderately to peas. Chickpeas weren't included in the test.

I am not super knowledgeable with how to interpret blood test results but she has high creatinine (a little above the normal range) and high BUN and SDMA (close to the higher end of the normal range). I was told that her blood gas levels (low HCO3 and high Anion gap) suggest she is consuming too much protein beyond the amount her body can handle.

 

[FeebysOwner]

How old is your cat? I don't profess to know as much as your vet, as I am not one - however, what you are listing sounds like possible kidney disease. Did the vet mention this at all?

 

[Dodahm]

Ah, yes, the vet ran an SDMA test to rule out kidney disease. The ultrasound also confirmed that her kidneys were normal without any issues. But her blood work did show that she was a bit dehydrated despite me ensuring she drinks 160-180ml of water every day through wet food. She weighs 4.3kg (about 9.5 pounds) so I have increased her water intake since then. (She doesn't drink from her water bowls at all... haha)

 

[FeebysOwner]

Ah, yes, the vet ran an SDMA test to rule out kidney disease. The ultrasound also confirmed that her kidneys were normal without any issues. But her blood work did show that she was a bit dehydrated

I am sure my cat was not the 'norm', but even at Stage 3 CKD her SDMA was within range. So, frankly, I don't trust it to be the end all for kidney disease detection. As far as I know, an ultrasound would determine if there is any structural damage to the kidneys, not necessarily how well they are functioning. Although I don't know the percentages, not all cats with CKD will exhibit renal ultrasonographic changes.

Just because you didn't share any of the blood work numbers, I will give you this: While there are variances from lab to lab, generally speaking creatinine range is around 0.9 - 2.3 mg/dL. However, despite that range, anything above 1.6 usually indicates kidney disease. According to IRIS (International Renal Interest Society), anything between 1.6 - 2.8 (140-250 μmol/l) is actually considered Stage 2 CKD. My problem is that I just don't know how high the creatinine level will go for a cat that consumes too much protein. Most of the time, it is seen in cats who consume a raw diet exclusively, so maybe Rawz can have the same effect? A high anion gap and a low HCo3 (usually referred to as metabolic acidosis) can also occur with kidney disease.

Did your vet do a urinalysis? If so, what was your cat's USG (urine specific gravity), and was there a UP/C (urine protein to creatinine) performed?

You didn't say how old your cat is, so if she is fairly young, admittedly it isn't common for kidney disease to be as prevalent, particularly if not related to structural issues. I guess I am still curious how Rawz compares to other cat foods in terms of the protein level. If not that much different, then why is your cat having issues processing their current level of protein?

I am not a vet, so I guess you need to trust yours and do what they say and see how that turns out. Sorry, if I have wasted your time by 'barking up the wrong tree'.

 

[Dodahm]

I am sure my cat was not the 'norm', but even at Stage 3 CKD her SDMA was within range. So, frankly, I don't trust it to be the end all for kidney disease detection. As far as I know, an ultrasound would determine if there is any structural damage to the kidneys, not necessarily how well they are functioning. Although I don't know the percentages, not all cats with CKD will exhibit renal ultrasonographic changes.

Just because you didn't share any of the blood work numbers, I will give you this: While there are variances from lab to lab, generally speaking creatinine range is around 0.9 - 2.3 mg/dL. However, despite that range, anything above 1.6 usually indicates kidney disease. According to IRIS (International Renal Interest Society), anything between 1.6 - 2.8 (140-250 μmol/l) is actually considered Stage 2 CKD. My problem is that I just don't know how high the creatinine level will go for a cat that consumes too much protein. Most of the time, it is seen in cats who consume a raw diet exclusively, so maybe Rawz can have the same effect? A high anion gap and a low HCo3 (usually referred to as metabolic acidosis) can also occur with kidney disease.

Did your vet do a urinalysis? If so, what was your cat's USG (urine specific gravity), and was there a UP/C (urine protein to creatinine) performed?

You didn't say how old your cat is, so if she is fairly young, admittedly it isn't common for kidney disease to be as prevalent, particularly if not related to structural issues. I guess I am still curious how Rawz compares to other cat foods in terms of the protein level. If not that much different, then why is your cat having issues processing their current level of protein?

I am not a vet, so I guess you need to trust yours and do what they say and see how that turns out. Sorry, if I have wasted your time by 'barking up the wrong tree'.

You are not wasting my time! Not at all. You have shared very useful information and I appreciate that you took time to do so. I am sorry I didn't share more information in my previous answer. I honestly didn't think kidney disease could be a possibility for her so didn't give much thought to it.

My cat is about 2.5 years old. I have also attached her blood work results to this comment. I will appreciate it if you could take a look at it. Some of the text in the file is Korean but all the information you would need to understand the actual numbers is in English. I also want to add that she got blood work done in May, which came out all normal (SDMA wasn't tested at the time).

Yeah I later learned that urinalysis is necessary to diagnose kidney disease. My vet didn't suggest it during the last visit when my kitty got blood work done. I am planning to go in for a follow-up exam next month and will ask for urinalysis.

As for her diet, she has been on mostly freeze-dried food since October last year. Until March this year, she was on a relatively moderate protein diet (feline natural, which has protein content around 50% dm basis). Then I switched to vital essentials freeze-dried food in March, which has protein content of 60% dm basis. She has been strictly on vital essentials from March through September and I only introduced Rawz sardines cans (shredded version without fenugreek; protein content around 60% as well) in October, about 3 weeks before her blood work.

I initially asked a question about Rawz pate, which is relatively moderate in protein (40-45%) and high in fat based on the vet's recommendation to lower her protein intake. But all Rawz pates use fenugreek as binder instead of gums, which I suspect my kitty might be allergic to.

I didn't know some cats with kidney disease didn't show abnormal signs in an ultrasound or SDMA test. That's good information to know. Thank you for sharing them and I am sorry about your kitty. I hope he/she is doing well.

 

[Dodahm]

You are not wasting my time! Not at all. You have shared very useful information and I appreciate that you took time to do so. I am sorry I didn't share more information in my previous answer. I honestly didn't think kidney disease could be a possibility for her so didn't give much thought to it.

My cat is about 2.5 years old. I have also attached her blood work results to this comment. I will appreciate it if you could take a look at it. Some of the text in the file is Korean but all the information you would need to understand the actual numbers is in English. I also want to add that she got blood work done in May, which came out all normal (SDMA wasn't tested at the time).

Yeah I later learned that urinalysis is necessary to diagnose kidney disease. My vet didn't suggest it during the last visit when my kitty got blood work done. I am planning to go in for a follow-up exam next month and will ask for urinalysis.

As for her diet, she has been on mostly freeze-dried food since October last year. Until March this year, she was on a relatively moderate protein diet (feline natural, which has protein content around 50% dm basis). Then I switched to vital essentials freeze-dried food in March, which has protein content of 60% dm basis. She has been strictly on vital essentials from March through September and I only introduced Rawz sardines cans (shredded version without fenugreek; protein content around 60% as well) in October, about 3 weeks before her blood work.

I initially asked a question about Rawz pate, which is relatively moderate in protein (40-45%) and high in fat based on the vet's recommendation to lower her protein intake. But all Rawz pates use fenugreek as binder instead of gums, which I suspect my kitty might be allergic to.

I didn't know some cats with kidney disease didn't show abnormal signs in an ultrasound or SDMA test. That's good information to know. Thank you for sharing them and I am sorry about your kitty. I hope he/she is doing well.

Not sure how I can edit my previous comment. I want to clarify that the attached

You are not wasting my time! Not at all. You have shared very useful information and I appreciate that you took time to do so. I am sorry I didn't share more information in my previous answer. I honestly didn't think kidney disease could be a possibility for her so didn't give much thought to it.

My cat is about 2.5 years old. I have also attached her blood work results to this comment. I will appreciate it if you could take a look at it. Some of the text in the file is Korean but all the information you would need to understand the actual numbers is in English. I also want to add that she got blood work done in May, which came out all normal (SDMA wasn't tested at the time).

Yeah I later learned that urinalysis is necessary to diagnose kidney disease. My vet didn't suggest it during the last visit when my kitty got blood work done. I am planning to go in for a follow-up exam next month and will ask for urinalysis.

As for her diet, she has been on mostly freeze-dried food since October last year. Until March this year, she was on a relatively moderate protein diet (feline natural, which has protein content around 50% dm basis). Then I switched to vital essentials freeze-dried food in March, which has protein content of 60% dm basis. She has been strictly on vital essentials from March through September and I only introduced Rawz sardines cans (shredded version without fenugreek; protein content around 60% as well) in October, about 3 weeks before her blood work.

I initially asked a question about Rawz pate, which is relatively moderate in protein (40-45%) and high in fat based on the vet's recommendation to lower her protein intake. But all Rawz pates use fenugreek as binder instead of gums, which I suspect my kitty might be allergic to.

I didn't know some cats with kidney disease didn't show abnormal signs in an ultrasound or SDMA test. That's good information to know. Thank you for sharing them and I am sorry about your kitty. I hope he/she is doing well.

Not sure how I can edit my previous comment but I want to clarify that the attached blood work was done on November 1. The blood work I mentioned above was a separate one done in May.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Thank you for sharing the test results. I've briefly looked them over, and will look at them again more thoroughly, but I don't see much that would suggest kidney disease, tbh. The creatinine, I suspect, could be within the range that might be seen with a cat on a very high protein diet. And, given your cat's age, CKD seems even less likely, especially given no abnormalities on the ultrasound.

As I have come to understand through this site, vets from different countries operate quite differently from the US. And, sometimes so do the foods that are fed, and how/what they are composed of. At this point, I guess all you can do is what the vet advised and see what happens. It may be that your cat needs to be on a different food to accomplish a lower protein level, without impacting her allergies, to adjust the levels the vet wants to see. As I said, I am not a vet, and so many things you discussed can point to CKD, but given my limited knowledge, I can't suggest to you that is likely the case.

Thank you for your well wishes for my cat. Unfortunately, she passed away a few months ago, and so I suppose I am super sensitive to anything that looks like potential kidney disease. She was 20yo and had other health issues alongside of the CKD.

I do want you to know that you are a relatively 'new' member, in the sense of the number of posts you have made, so your abilities to edit should come to fruition when you have reached 20 posts, which you seem to have done. There should be an 'Edit' button showing up in the lower left hand corner of your post that will enable you to edit for 2 hours. You might like to have this information about all of that as well - Promotions and Benefits | TheCatSite

 

[Dodahm]

Thank you for sharing the test results. I've briefly looked them over, and will look at them again more thoroughly, but I don't see much that would suggest kidney disease, tbh. The creatinine, I suspect, could be within the range that might be seen with a cat on a very high protein diet. And, given your cat's age, CKD seems even less likely, especially given no abnormalities on the ultrasound.

As I have come to understand through this site, vets from different countries operate quite differently from the US. And, sometimes so do the foods that are fed, and how/what they are composed of. At this point, I guess all you can do is what the vet advised and see what happens. It may be that your cat needs to be on a different food to accomplish a lower protein level, without impacting her allergies, to adjust the levels the vet wants to see. As I said, I am not a vet, and so many things you discussed can point to CKD, but given my limited knowledge, I can't suggest to you that is likely the case.

Thank you for your well wishes for my cat. Unfortunately, she passed away a few months ago, and so I suppose I am super sensitive to anything that looks like potential kidney disease. She was 20yo and had other health issues alongside of the CKD.

I do want you to know that you are a relatively 'new' member, in the sense of the number of posts you have made, so your abilities to edit should come to fruition when you have reached 20 posts, which you seem to have done. There should be an 'Edit' button showing up in the lower left hand corner of your post that will enable you to edit for 2 hours. You might like to have this information about all of that as well - Promotions and Benefits | TheCatSite

I am so sorry to hear about your cat. It is quite rough and sad to get through these first few months after you lost your beloved pets. I am not sure how this would sound to you given cultural differences but in Korea pet owners like to believe that all of their pets who passed away before them wait for you and greet you when you join them in the afterlife. This thought helped me a lot when I lost my dog 8 years ago.

Thank you for taking a look at her blood test results. As you mentioned, I think CKD is unlikely given her age but I will ask for urinalysis during my next appointment to be sure.

As for her food, I strictly feed her cat food imported from the US and New Zealand, which seem to have the strictest laws and regulations on the pet food industry. Unfortunately, Korea has a bit of catch up to do in that regard.

Thank you for sharing information about promotions on the website. I think the edit button just became available to me.