9 Month Old Kitten Throwing Up Raw, Are These OK Remedies?

everariana

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Sorry for the long post. It might be a complex situation so I feel like I should include as many important details as possible. Scroll down for the tl;dr version.

I've been feeding my 9 month old kittens raw food for almost 5 weeks now. But for the past week, my poor Hugo has vomited the raw food several times.

He was great the first couple weeks that I was feeding them a meat/bone/organs chicken grind from Hare Today (supplemented with Alnutrin and fish oil).Then I introduced raw turkey (same type of grind from Hare Today) about 2 weeks in and he LOVED it and preferred it way more than the chicken. But about a week into feeding him the raw turkey, he started throwing up about 30 min - 1 hour after his meals consistently. His excitement to eat the turkey decreased as well. At first I thought it was some of the raw chicken gizzards that I feed them after their raw meals, because he eats them SO fast and I've never seen him go as crazy over food like that before (he literally growls if his sister gets too close to him while eating his chicken gizzards). But he was still throwing up after I removed the gizzards. So I removed the raw turkey from his diet and just had him eat his regular canned Instinct Kitten chicken food that they already eat for their middle meals (2 out of 4 meals).

Luckily, the vomiting stopped after removing the raw food. A day or two into Hugo eating only canned food, he threw up about 5 inches of his cat dancer toy that I mistakenly left out for the first itme. I assumed maybe it was the toy that was causing all the previous vomiting. So a couple days later, I started transitioning the raw turkey back into his diet, using the morning and night meal for this. I started with 25% raw turkey, 75% Instinct canned for 2 days and everything was more than fine--he was eating up the turkey with his original excitement. I then moved to 50% raw and 50% canned transitioning meals but a couple meals into that ratio his excitement decreased again. He was only nibbling at the raw turkey. Then last night he threw up again, the first time in almost a week :( Only difference this time is that it was 6 hours after eating instead of shortly afterwards. Pretty much all of the food was there.

Aftedr oing some research, I realize some of my faults. He's still a new raw eater, and I transitioned him way too fast, let alone introducing TWO raw meats (and whole gizzards), in a short period of time. Luckily he doesn't vomit when eating his regular canned food, his poop is normal (maybe slightly stinkier now that he's eating more canned food again), and his behavior is normal. His appetite is up and down, sometimes he'll eat the majority of his food without walking away, and other times he'll graze and not really be excited. But he's not completely refusing food and he eventually eats it all.

I've decided that I'm just gonna feed him his canned food for right now to get his stomach okay. What I need help with is 1. how long I should wait until I introduce the raw food back into his diet and 2. extra things I should give him to soothe his digestive system. Should it be pumpkin? Bone broth? Probiotics? Only one of those or all of the above? Anything else you all suggest? I've given him pumpkin before to help with poop but I'm not too familiar with other remedies. If you read through all this, I appreciate the effort in just that and thank you in advance!


tl;dr summary of the above: My Hugo was eating raw meat (chicken, then turkey meat/bone/organ grind from Hare Today) for a few weeks just fine then started throwing up consistently after every turkey meal. I might have transitioned the overall raw eating and the two meals too fast (canned to raw chicken transition happened over a week, then turkey was introduced 10-14 days later) but i'm not sure what the problem exactly is. for right now I'm feeding him his regular canned food for all meals and need help deciding if I should introduce any remedies like pumpkin, probiotics, bone broth, etc. while he's eating strictly canned food and how long I should wait until I start to introduce the raw food again into his diet.
 

kittyluv387

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You'll have to provide your recipe that you used in detail for us to really have much of a say besides just stick to canned.
 

Azazel

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I am concerned that some of the toy is still in his tummy. I think you should have him checked by a vet and do some x-rays.

How’s his poop?
 
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everariana

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You'll have to provide your recipe that you used in detail for us to really have much of a say besides just stick to canned.
I didn’t use a recipe, instead I’ve just been using the meat/bone/organ grinds from Hare Today.
chicken: Product | Hare Today
Turkey: Product | Hare Today

other than that, I was giving them some 1 inch chicken breast cubes after dinner for a few weeks and then replaced that with a few pieces of chicken gizzards for about a week until Hugo started vomiting
 
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everariana

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I am concerned that some of the toy is still in his tummy. I think you should have him checked by a vet and do some x-rays.

How’s his poop?
Yes, I’ve been thinking about taking him to the vet for an X-ray. I do a very good job with keeping things away from him that he likes to eat but he always finds something new to chew on. It’s always been very small things though. But I’m even more concerned because he strictly vomits after eating raw food. If it was his toy wouldn’t he be vomiting after his canned food?

Luckily his poop is very normal. It’s just a little more stinky since he’s eating more canned food again.
 

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Yes, I’ve been thinking about taking him to the vet for an X-ray. I do a very good job with keeping things away from him that he likes to eat but he always finds something new to chew on. It’s always been very small things though. But I’m even more concerned because he strictly vomits after eating raw food. If it was his toy wouldn’t he be vomiting after his canned food?

Luckily his poop is very normal. It’s just a little more stinky since he’s eating more canned food again.
It may be that there are still parts of the toy stuck in his tummy and the canned food is easier to bypass it. I would still take him for an x-ray if you’re unsure if he threw up all of the toy or not because it’s possible it’s still there.

Another possibility is that there’s something about the grinds that’s not sitting well with him. I’m not sure how finely hare today grinds their bone or how much they include in the grind. If it’s a whole chicken or turkey then it will be way too much bone. Have you looked at the nutrient profile of the grinds? Do they include the thyroid?
 
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everariana

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It may be that there are still parts of the toy stuck in his tummy and the canned food is easier to bypass it. I would still take him for an x-ray if you’re unsure if he threw up all of the toy or not because it’s possible it’s still there.

Another possibility is that there’s something about the grinds that’s not sitting well with him. I’m not sure how finely hare today grinds their bone or how much they include in the grind. If it’s a whole chicken or turkey then it will be way too much bone. Have you looked at the nutrient profile of the grinds? Do they include the thyroid?
This is what I found on their website:


— 20% Turkey Drum Bone-In [Skin-on] (62/38/0)
— 5% Turkey Wings Bone-In [Skin-on] (56/44/0)
— 54% Boneless Turkey Thigh (100/0/0)
— 1% Turkey Neck (58/42/0)
— 5% Turkey Heart (100/0/0)
— 5% Turkey Gizzard (100/0/0)
—10% Turkey Liver (0/0/100)

And they say it should come out to about 80% meat, 10% bone, 10% organs. They include heart and gizzards in the meat category.

I didn’t see any mentioning of thyroid, but may I ask what that can do to his body? Only because I had a fear a few weeks ago that I was giving him too much gizzards that might have thrown off the 80/10/10 grind ratio. Hare today’s customer service told me that I didn’t need to supplement the gizzards with Alnutrin if the gizzards were less than 10% of the food they were eating, and while I tried to limit the amount I gave them, the gizzards were more than 10%...so maybe there’s a nutritional imbalance? Their website says gizzards are good source of Protein, Riboflavin, Niacin, Iron, Phosphorus and Zinc, and a very good source of Vitamin B12 and Selenium. But mind you, he hasn’t eaten that in almost two weeks.
 
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everariana

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One thing I’ve noticed is that the turkey grind is wayyyyy less liquid-y than the chicken after I add the Alnutrin. For the chicken grind, I add 1/4 of water per lb of meat to mix the supplement, resulting in a consistency that’s a little less watery than apple sauce. But the same amount of water with turkey is like peanut butter. So a lot thicker. But even last night I added extra water to make the turkey consistency the same as the chicken, and he still ended up vomiting
 

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I just asked about thyroid to ensure that there is iodine included in the mix. If there are no added supplements that include iodine then it would not be nutritionally complete without the thyroid.

usually people who feed whole prey alternate between different proteins. Just feeding whole turkey and chicken may not be nutritionally complete. But, if the mix turns out to be 80/10/10 then it can’t be a whole grind because that’s not the ratio of a whole chicken or turkey.

This is why it’s really important to follow an established recipe. I don’t think the puking is cause of this, but it’s just a side note to make sure you know the nutrient profile of what you’re feeding. I’m also not sure if Alnutrin should be added to 80/10/10 grinds.
 

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I just asked about thyroid to ensure that there is iodine included in the mix. If there are no added supplements that include iodine then it would not be nutritionally complete without the thyroid.

usually people who feed whole prey alternate between different proteins. Just feeding whole turkey and chicken may not be nutritionally complete. But, if the mix turns out to be 80/10/10 then it can’t be a whole grind because that’s not the ratio of a whole chicken or turkey.

This is why it’s really important to follow an established recipe. I don’t think the puking is cause of this, but it’s just a side note to make sure you know the nutrient profile of what you’re feeding. I’m also not sure if Alnutrin should be added to 80/10/10 grinds.
There is a version of Alnutrin for Meat&Bones, I’m guessing that’s what everariana everariana is using?
EDIT: I think I’ve just understood what you meant Azazel, that Alnutrin Meat&Bones could potentially be for whole prey whatever ratios they have, rather than 80:10:10. To me it’s unclear from their site.

I was wondering everariana everariana if you could test some other Turkey meat from different source, preferably without bone (but you’d need to use a different Alnutrin for that). Just to see if he can tolerate boneless better?
 
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everariana

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I just asked about thyroid to ensure that there is iodine included in the mix. If there are no added supplements that include iodine then it would not be nutritionally complete without the thyroid.

usually people who feed whole prey alternate between different proteins. Just feeding whole turkey and chicken may not be nutritionally complete. But, if the mix turns out to be 80/10/10 then it can’t be a whole grind because that’s not the ratio of a whole chicken or turkey.

This is why it’s really important to follow an established recipe. I don’t think the puking is cause of this, but it’s just a side note to make sure you know the nutrient profile of what you’re feeding. I’m also not sure if Alnutrin should be added to 80/10/10 grinds.
Omg I can’t believe I’ve been feeding them for a month without it being nutritionally balanced :( I spent so much time researching all the things that I need to add and I never came across the iodine portion. I guess I overlooked that on catinfo.org. Ugh. Right now I only supplement their grinds with Alnutrin and fish oil so I’ll dig into more complete recipes. Since 80/10/10 is a ratio that I see a lot of people suggesting, is it safe to assume that I can add the same measurements from other recipes to my grinds, as long as it’s the same weight of meat to additional supplement ratio? And are there any other avenues that I can use to learn what the nutrient profile is for the raw food besides reaching out to Hare Today and Alnutrin directly?
Also, the Hare Today grinds I use are 10% liver, which I know can be a lot for some cats. Can liver cause an upset digestive system that leads to vomiting? I’m only finding information on liver increasing diarrhea.
 
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everariana

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There is a version of Alnutrin for Meat&Bones, I’m guessing that’s what everariana everariana is using?
EDIT: I think I’ve just understood what you meant Azazel, that Alnutrin Meat&Bones could potentially be for whole prey whatever ratios they have, rather than 80:10:10. To me it’s unclear from their site.

I was wondering everariana everariana if you could test some other Turkey meat from different source, preferably without bone (but you’d need to use a different Alnutrin for that). Just to see if he can tolerate boneless better?
Yeah I use Alnutrin for meat w/ bones. There is still calcium listed but I’m assuming it’s a smaller amount? But I definitely will inquire with them about if it’s appropriate to use Alnutrin with 80/10/10 grinds. I assumed so because I saw other people on here doing the same, plus Hare Today’s website says to use it with the grinds. But I will contact them so I can hear what they think directly.
Honestly this is making me more nervous so I might just follow a recipe that has the supplements added individually rather than thru a mix like Alnutrin. But I definitely don’t have enough time to grind my own meat so it needs to be appropriate for a pre-ground meat mix...

And yes, I will try another turkey grind without bones. I just need to find where to get it since I can only order from Hare Today every few months with the high shipping costs lol
 

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I associate vomiting with too much bone. Usually what happens is they get constipated, so their system literally cannot hold as much food, so it comes back up.
Liver softens everything up, it's just so rich. So too much liver usually ends up with loose stools or diarrhea.

If the turkey grind is bone heavy, can you just add a percentage of extra meat to it? or maybe some egg?
 

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I would move him to canned food first, figure out the vomit situation (make sure there is no toy stuck in his tummy), then figure out the raw food.
 

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Yeah I use Alnutrin for meat w/ bones. There is still calcium listed but I’m assuming it’s a smaller amount? But I definitely will inquire with them about if it’s appropriate to use Alnutrin with 80/10/10 grinds. I assumed so because I saw other people on here doing the same, plus Hare Today’s website says to use it with the grinds. But I will contact them so I can hear what they think directly.
Honestly this is making me more nervous so I might just follow a recipe that has the supplements added individually rather than thru a mix like Alnutrin. But I definitely don’t have enough time to grind my own meat so it needs to be appropriate for a pre-ground meat mix...

And yes, I will try another turkey grind without bones. I just need to find where to get it since I can only order from Hare Today every few months with the high shipping costs lol
Sorry I don’t mean to scare you. The Alnutrin might be fine, I just don’t know what’s in it. I would suspect that for 10% bone though, you wouldn’t need to have more calcium in the supplement mix.

If you choose to go boneless it’s much easier to grind meat yourself. Some people use a food processor or just chunk it by hand (if your cat will eat chunks).
 
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everariana

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I associate vomiting with too much bone. Usually what happens is they get constipated, so their system literally cannot hold as much food, so it comes back up.
Liver softens everything up, it's just so rich. So too much liver usually ends up with loose stools or diarrhea.

If the turkey grind is bone heavy, can you just add a percentage of extra meat to it? or maybe some egg?
I can definitely try to add extra meat to it. But he’s also not constipated; his poop is very regular and seemingly healthy
 
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everariana

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Sorry I don’t mean to scare you. The Alnutrin might be fine, I just don’t know what’s in it. I would suspect that for 10% bone though, you wouldn’t need to have more calcium in the supplement mix.

If you choose to go boneless it’s much easier to grind meat yourself. Some people use a food processor or just chunk it by hand (if your cat will eat chunks).
Okay I’ll add the calcium concern to my list of questions when I reach out to Alnutrin and Hare Today. I’ll consider making my own grind with boneless meat as well. Thank you!
 

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Happened exactly the same with my cat after starting the raw

solution for me was starting to cook myself boiled chicken/turkey

never vomited since
 
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everariana

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Happened exactly the same with my cat after starting the raw

solution for me was starting to cook myself boiled chicken/turkey

never vomited since
So you think your cat was maybe sensitive to raw food overall?
 
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everariana

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Sorry I don’t mean to scare you. The Alnutrin might be fine, I just don’t know what’s in it. I would suspect that for 10% bone though, you wouldn’t need to have more calcium in the supplement mix.

If you choose to go boneless it’s much easier to grind meat yourself. Some people use a food processor or just chunk it by hand (if your cat will eat chunks).
I checked their website and Alnutrin includes iodized salt for the iodine :)
 
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