6 year old Morty isn't doing so well

crouton

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One of my cats reacts to turkey liver but not turkey regular meat. It’s weird.
There is this brand I saw recently

And there’s always evangers which does have guar gum at the end. I think also maybe red barn or ziwi peak had a pork pate. Ziwi peak does have mussels though.
 
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One of my cats reacts to turkey liver but not turkey regular meat. It’s weird.
There is this brand I saw recently
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And there’s always evangers which does have guar gum at the end. I think also maybe red barn or ziwi peak had a pork pate. Ziwi peak does have mussels though.
I saw that brand as well. Just popped up on google ads today out of no where hah. Thanks for the suggestions though. I think I might just buy the pork trim, heart, and liver from hare-today and cook it up and put it in my food processor. The fat percentage is 80/20 which is still high and not good for IBD cats, but at least he likes it. I'm weary of introducing too many foods while his gut is still healing though so I may wait on that. The only reason I added duck was because he was tired of chicken and turkey seemed to be problematic. Right now he's getting a concoction of alnutrin, S Boulardii, collagen and pharm fish oil in the cooked meat. After reading about it on the IBD raw cats site I'm thinking about introducing slippery elm once he's through with the meds he's on, as well as a probiotic. That seems like a lot to use at once but I'm not seeing any possible interactions other than with medications.

Side note on the Evangers pork, they have a line for cats and dogs that includes limited ingredients and almost all pork. At a glance it looks great and is pretty cheap, but in the fine print they say it's only meant as supplemental feeding or a treat. They don't fortify it with the nutrients cats need, which makes me angry because they clearly market it to cats.
 

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I saw that brand as well. Just popped up on google ads today out of no where hah. Thanks for the suggestions though. I think I might just buy the pork trim, heart, and liver from hare-today and cook it up and put it in my food processor. The fat percentage is 80/20 which is still high and not good for IBD cats, but at least he likes it. I'm weary of introducing too many foods while his gut is still healing though so I may wait on that. The only reason I added duck was because he was tired of chicken and turkey seemed to be problematic. Right now he's getting a concoction of alnutrin, S Boulardii, collagen and pharm fish oil in the cooked meat. After reading about it on the IBD raw cats site I'm thinking about introducing slippery elm once he's through with the meds he's on, as well as a probiotic. That seems like a lot to use at once but I'm not seeing any possible interactions other than with medications.

Side note on the Evangers pork, they have a line for cats and dogs that includes limited ingredients and almost all pork. At a glance it looks great and is pretty cheap, but in the fine print they say it's only meant as supplemental feeding or a treat. They don't fortify it with the nutrients cats need, which makes me angry because they clearly market it to cats.
True I remember seeing that on the evangers, but the limited ingredients make it good to try for allergies or sensitivities on a short term basis.
Does he not have issues with fish oil if you said he has fish issues? Have you consider something like the 1TDC instead which is beef tallow based
 
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True I remember seeing that on the evangers, but the limited ingredients make it good to try for allergies or sensitivities on a short term basis.
Does he not have issues with fish oil if you said he has fish issues? Have you consider something like the 1TDC instead which is beef tallow based
That's the problem though. For many cats an elimination diet takes months to see the results. It just depends on the cat. :(

He has problems with fish oil if it's not pharmaceutical grade. Most cat food companies (both high and low end) use cheap fish/salmon/tuna/krill/etc. oil. The cheaper oils are more likely to not be completely protein free. For cats with mild fish allergies this usually isn't an issue, but Morty's got a bad one and will react from those added to cat foods. I use the Iceland Pure Unscented Pharmaceutical Grade Sardine & Anchovy Oil and have had no issues.

I looked up the 1TDC and while it comes from beef it also has fish oil added. It looks like one of the main ingredients is gelatin which is what I'm currently using collagen for. I figured we could just skip the gelatin and go right for the main ingredient that comes from it.
 

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I’m starting 1TDC now for my cats oral health we shall see! One of my cat’s vomits up any tuna.
 

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That's interesting. When Morty first developed food allergies my vet told me to give him pepcid to help with acid buildup but it didn't seem to do much for him. I still have the bottle though so we can see if it helps with his meds.
I always like when a vet explains their train of thought at least... then it sounds reasonable.
 
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I always like when a vet explains their train of thought at least... then it sounds reasonable.
Unless they say what the most recent emergency vet said, "We cook our food, so obviously they need cooked food." She said this when I mention dehydrated/freeze dried treats and why she thought it was the reason Morty got sick...even though no infection was ever found. :rolleyes: After paying 4000 for a potentially unnecessary vet trip, the last thing I needed was to be blamed for it all.
 
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Morty Update:

No vomit yesterday, although we didn't give him the antibiotic. I think he has about one or two doses of it left, but yesterday he decided he wasn't very hungry, at least not for his food. I didn't feel comfortable giving it to him on a slightly empty stomach so I didn't. He turned his nose up to both chicken and duck, and has decided he hates Tiki Cat entirely. Actually, Po and Goose aren't fans anymore either, which makes me question if they changed their formula. I cooked up some venison + heart/liver/supplements and the smell was soooooo much better than the duck. My apartment didn't reek of liver, it just smelled like ground beef which was substantially better. IMO liver smells like a weird mix of citrus and blood, and it's so pungent it lingers. My mom told me to cook it with onions 🤦‍♀️ to reduce the smell. When I told her cats can't have onions and it can kill them she said to just remove them after cooking 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️. She has dogs so I'll give her a pass (although I don't think they can have onion either....), but I'm obviously not going to do that.

Morty's stools are pretty solid now. I think the addition of the s. boulardii in the cooked food is helping. I didn't particularly want to introduce ANOTHER protein, but he's left me no choice. I'm sure if I left chicken out and didn't give him anything else he would eventually eat some, but I don't feel right doing that. He really enjoyed the venison the first time he had it, he inhaled it. But the second time he had it he didn't want it so much. He's always done this though, he'll like it again if I wait about a week to give it to him. He and Po really like variety in wet foods, which makes sense. Below is a picture of Morty eyeing Goose's food that he isn't allowed to have. He likes to sit like that sometimes and be a weirdo.

IMG-9049.jpg
IMG-9047.JPG
 

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Krista didn't care for venison, boar, beef, or any of the red meats. I happily would have fed her bison burgers from the freezer section if she did. Even boutique beef would have been cheaper than buying two fryer rabbits for 1 lbs of leg meat. Then again, I never cooked the meat for her. I tried once or twice but she didn't care for the texture. I wouldn't learn until later that if I froze the meat after cooking it, it would grind a whole lot easier.

Maybe you can just call it done on the antibiotic if he's down to the last dose in the bottle. He's been on antibiotics for so long, I don't think he's going to get that much more out of one or two more doses.

Those look like healthy and happy cats. 😻
 
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Krista didn't care for venison, boar, beef, or any of the red meats. I happily would have fed her bison burgers from the freezer section if she did. Even boutique beef would have been cheaper than buying two fryer rabbits for 1 lbs of leg meat. Then again, I never cooked the meat for her. I tried once or twice but she didn't care for the texture. I wouldn't learn until later that if I froze the meat after cooking it, it would grind a whole lot easier.

Maybe you can just call it done on the antibiotic if he's down to the last dose in the bottle. He's been on antibiotics for so long, I don't think he's going to get that much more out of one or two more doses.

Those look like healthy and happy cats. 😻
I'm not surprised. I've noticed a lot of cats don't like red meat, which makes sense since they probably wouldn't have eaten them in the wild. Morty isn't a fan of beef and since Goose is allergic I don't mind keeping it out of the apartment, but pork and venison seem to be his favorites above all others so far. Rabbit is probably his least favorite protein of all...even though that's what would have been eaten in the wild. He makes no sense to me sometimes.

I can tell he doesn't love cooked meats as much as raw, and when I first tried he basically ignored them. When I started blending them in the food processor into a pate texture is when he go would finally go near them, which is great for me because it makes it easier to supplement.

I agree with ending the antibiotic as well. He hasn't eaten much again today so I wouldn't want him to have it anyway. And the picture can be deceiving, but Po is about 3 pounds bigger than Morty, and he's a smaller cat that should weigh less than Morty. But they are very happy. :) I'd include one with Goose, but Morty and Po don't especially like him. They don't attack him or anything, they just hate Goose jumping on them all the time so they avoid him.
 
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Morty Update:

He's been especially picky today. Between 6am and 9pm he only ate about about a tablespoon or two. I gave him Evangers canned duck (formulated for cats), Tiki Cat chicken mousse, cooked venison, a chicken pouch Slide & Serve by Weruva, and I even tried a lamb pouch from Koha, which he has never had before. What I will say is from the duck and quick lamb trials, my cats HATE Koha. Morty and Po will not touch it and Goose will eat it only if he's hungry enough.

I threw the antibiotic away since there were only a couple days left and I knew I couldn't give it to Morty tonight. I was really close to giving him more of the appetite stimulant but I decided to try one more thing. I cooked up more of the duck/heart/liver and added the regular supplements as well as a probiotic since he's off the antibiotics. He hasn't had freshly cooked duck in at least a day and a half and at this point I was out of options. He took to it immediately!! The 1.5 day break was apparently enough for him to want to eat it again. I'm watching him now to see if he vomits or gets any nausea, but for now I'm just seeing him inhale it. Tomorrow I will look for some pork to give him, in hopes that a steady variety will help him eat. I 100% know this is the wrong thing to do when a cat has allergies, as well as many unknown/unexplained allergies, but I don't know what else to do. He lost the little extra weight he had on him when he went into the vet and he can't stand to lose more. At this point I would rather him eat a ton and vomit a couple times a week than eat very little.
 
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Morty Update:

I'm having trouble getting back to sleep so I figured I would give a Morty update. He's been eating less each day it seems. Unless I introduce a new food to him he doesn't want to eat very much of the 4 wet and 1 cooked that I've been putting out for him. I'm beginning to wonder if the vet was wrong about it being because simply a sign of his IBD and instead he's gotten too used to many different options and is holding out. I've noticed this a little in Po as well, although he'll always go back if he gets hungry enough. Somehow, Morty hasn't lost weight. His metabolism has always fascinated me. I weighted him multiple times yesterday (to get a more accurate result) and he was 12.4 each time.

I ordered some pork for him from HT that should be here Friday. I don't have a local butcher in my area that sells organs, which is pretty surprising considering I'm in a densely populated area. The frozen ground pork from the store is like 8.00 a pound, almost twice as much as HT, so I think it's worth the shipping. In the mean time, as of Thursday, he got some food with peas again. As with the introduction of every other protein, I didn't want to, but of my massive cat food collection he didn't want any of it. He ate up the new "pea" duck food the first day. The second not so much, but still a little. 🤦‍♀️

Back to why I'm awake: I swear I'm not making this up even though it sounds a bit unreal. I was literally in the middle of a dream about the ER vet telling me that Morty needed to go back when I woke up at 6 AM to his vomiting noises in the other room. Too ironic. Anyway, I think after the past few years of cleaning up puke the noise is basically an alarm clock for me. He threw up a lot of watery food in three piles, two of them on the couch and one on a blanket. The last pile was just a bit of spit/water, which is pretty normal for him. I cleaned it up and went back to bed. The second I closed my eyes it started again, and luckily I was able to move him from the carpet in time. He threw up two piles this time, and the second looked like a huge pile of acid. It was completely yellow when I cleaned it up; I didn't realize cats even had that much acid in their stomachs. Ten minutes later he was back for more food. Whatever is making him vomit doesn't seem to detract him from eating.

Anyway, I'm thinking of just feeding one food to him (maybe homemade cooked) and not giving him anything else to see if I can change his pickiness. I've debated this for a long time because I'm scared that maybe he won't eat anything....but I can't keep getting more types of canned food. I'm running out of brands and options, unless I go down the very low quality corn rabbit hole which isn't worth it IMO. What he vomited today was either homemade duck, Merrick duck with pea protein or Health Extension duck with chicken. Based on the cat food bowls (I had Po in the bedroom all night) it looks like it was the Merrick. Other than the peas, I do see "natural flavoring" on the ingredients list....which could be basically anything. I'm so frustrated. I feel like every post I'm just repeating myself in some way and then doing the opposite of what I plan to do after a day. I know I'm quick to change my mind about too many things, but it's just because I'm mathematically working out the chances of each possible scenario I've come up with in my head, and with each vomit session or session of not eating, those odds change. This is what I get for taking three stats classes in the past year.
 

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Have you considered if it’s a texture thing? Maybe he wants chunky pate, or smooth juicy pate or drier food? My old cat got very picky about consistency in her senior years. I hate to ask it but have you also considered trying giving him s hugh quality dry kibble to see if he wants something crunchy? In lieu there is also the smaller freeze dried nuggets that don’t have to be rehydrated, just to check the crunch texture.
 
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Have you considered if it’s a texture thing? Maybe he wants chunky pate, or smooth juicy pate or drier food? My old cat got very picky about consistency in her senior years. I hate to ask it but have you also considered trying giving him s hugh quality dry kibble to see if he wants something crunchy? In lieu there is also the smaller freeze dried nuggets that don’t have to be rehydrated, just to check the crunch texture.
We have tried all textures. He does like pate the best and really hates anything that looks like actually meat (like tiki cat stringy chicken). If I gave him dry I'm positive he would eat it right up. He an Po were addicted to dry food by their old owners and didn't take to well after being forced to an entirely wet diet. The reason I don't give him dry (and initially changed to all wet) is because Morty will throw it up every time. I used to think he was eating it too fast so I tried a method when I threw a couple pieces at a time every few minutes and he'd run around finding them. While this was a good source of exercise, he still threw them up. The dehydrated food is a good idea and I think he would probably like it, unfortunately I am not sure if he is in the clear for it yet because of his potentially leaky gut. That's why I'm still avoiding raw even though I think he'd like that most right now.
 

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Morty Update:

I'm having trouble getting back to sleep so I figured I would give a Morty update. He's been eating less each day it seems. Unless I introduce a new food to him he doesn't want to eat very much of the 4 wet and 1 cooked that I've been putting out for him. I'm beginning to wonder if the vet was wrong about it being because simply a sign of his IBD and instead he's gotten too used to many different options and is holding out. I've noticed this a little in Po as well, although he'll always go back if he gets hungry enough. Somehow, Morty hasn't lost weight. His metabolism has always fascinated me. I weighted him multiple times yesterday (to get a more accurate result) and he was 12.4 each time.

I ordered some pork for him from HT that should be here Friday. I don't have a local butcher in my area that sells organs, which is pretty surprising considering I'm in a densely populated area. The frozen ground pork from the store is like 8.00 a pound, almost twice as much as HT, so I think it's worth the shipping. In the mean time, as of Thursday, he got some food with peas again. As with the introduction of every other protein, I didn't want to, but of my massive cat food collection he didn't want any of it. He ate up the new "pea" duck food the first day. The second not so much, but still a little. 🤦‍♀️

Back to why I'm awake: I swear I'm not making this up even though it sounds a bit unreal. I was literally in the middle of a dream about the ER vet telling me that Morty needed to go back when I woke up at 6 AM to his vomiting noises in the other room. Too ironic. Anyway, I think after the past few years of cleaning up puke the noise is basically an alarm clock for me. He threw up a lot of watery food in three piles, two of them on the couch and one on a blanket. The last pile was just a bit of spit/water, which is pretty normal for him. I cleaned it up and went back to bed. The second I closed my eyes it started again, and luckily I was able to move him from the carpet in time. He threw up two piles this time, and the second looked like a huge pile of acid. It was completely yellow when I cleaned it up; I didn't realize cats even had that much acid in their stomachs. Ten minutes later he was back for more food. Whatever is making him vomit doesn't seem to detract him from eating.

Anyway, I'm thinking of just feeding one food to him (maybe homemade cooked) and not giving him anything else to see if I can change his pickiness. I've debated this for a long time because I'm scared that maybe he won't eat anything....but I can't keep getting more types of canned food. I'm running out of brands and options, unless I go down the very low quality corn rabbit hole which isn't worth it IMO. What he vomited today was either homemade duck, Merrick duck with pea protein or Health Extension duck with chicken. Based on the cat food bowls (I had Po in the bedroom all night) it looks like it was the Merrick. Other than the peas, I do see "natural flavoring" on the ingredients list....which could be basically anything. I'm so frustrated. I feel like every post I'm just repeating myself in some way and then doing the opposite of what I plan to do after a day. I know I'm quick to change my mind about too many things, but it's just because I'm mathematically working out the chances of each possible scenario I've come up with in my head, and with each vomit session or session of not eating, those odds change. This is what I get for taking three stats classes in the past year.
Shoot! Vomiting problems can be so hard to sort. Especially if they won’t eat the same food twice.

You can use chicken or beef organs in place of pork organs.

Have you looked at Hound and Gatos Pork recipe?
HOUND & GATOS 98% Pork Formula Grain-Free Canned Cat Food, 5.5-oz, case of 24 - Chewy.com

I see salmon oil and agar agar. I say it’s worth contacting H&G to ask them if the salmon oil is pharma grade. Maybe they’ll even send you a sample can. Rawz will send samples if you write them.

I wonder if his fussiness isn’t because of the way certain foods make him feel. I think you need to be a little stubborn with him. Pick one protein and feed only that for at least three months is what they recommend for figuring out food sensitivities. Hopefully he’ll eat the pork homemade consistently. If you’re using it with Alnutrin and he can eat enough of it, I would just skip the canned and get him on homemade for the food trial. Normally I recommend a canned backup in the diet to weather supply and production issues. But he doesn’t seem to want just one canned food. 🤦🏼‍♂️

He’s not in much danger for fatty liver as long he is eating some each day. It’s great if he isn’t losing weight. Maybe you can ask your vet for another prescription for anti-nausea (Cerenia or Zofran) and get them compounded through Wedgewood into a duck or pork flavored liquid or gel.

When do you talk to your vet again? Weren’t you going to meal plan with her?
 
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Shoot! Vomiting problems can be so hard to sort. Especially if they won’t eat the same food twice.

You can use chicken or beef organs in place of pork organs.

Have you looked at Hound and Gatos Pork recipe?
HOUND & GATOS 98% Pork Formula Grain-Free Canned Cat Food, 5.5-oz, case of 24 - Chewy.com

I see salmon oil and agar agar. I say it’s worth contacting H&G to ask them if the salmon oil is pharma grade. Maybe they’ll even send you a sample can. Rawz will send samples if you write them.

I wonder if his fussiness isn’t because of the way certain foods make him feel. I think you need to be a little stubborn with him. Pick one protein and feed only that for at least three months is what they recommend for figuring out food sensitivities. Hopefully he’ll eat the pork homemade consistently. If you’re using it with Alnutrin and he can eat enough of it, I would just skip the canned and get him on homemade for the food trial. Normally I recommend a canned backup in the diet to weather supply and production issues. But he doesn’t seem to want just one canned food. 🤦🏼‍♂️

He’s not in much danger for fatty liver as long he is eating some each day. It’s great if he isn’t losing weight. Maybe you can ask your vet for another prescription for anti-nausea (Cerenia or Zofran) and get them compounded through Wedgewood into a duck or pork flavored liquid or gel.

When do you talk to your vet again? Weren’t you going to meal plan with her?
That's a good idea with the organs, but I already found some from pork on HT that weren't too expensive.

I'm not going to lie I've been eyeing that food for a very long time. I'll ask the company...sometimes I'm hesitant to do so because I question if they will even know what I'm talking about hah. I've also thought about the getting the Avenger's pork for dogs/cats and fortifying it myself with nutrients. It seems easy to mess that up though and all three of my cats haven't been big fans of their foods marketed only to cats.

I will try sticking with one protein again. I agree that I might just need to be more forceful and consistent. My fiance actually said the same thing last night. Basically, even if he wastes the food it's going to be cheaper for us in the long run. The amount of fat from the HT pork is 80/20 which is still quite high for cats, but better than other options.

I have a canned food fortuitous in my bedroom right now so I don't think I need to worry about weather. Have you heard of cats being on Cerenia long term? Since he's not throwing up every day, I feel like it has to be for a reason. With his last vomit of this morning being a ton of yellow bile, I feel like something really irritated him. Usually cats only throw that up when they've gone a while without eating. If his vomit is from an allergy, I wonder if it could be harmful forcing him not to throw up.

My vet is a cat-only vet and is extremely busy all of the time. Appointments are always over a month out and sometimes it's hard to get in touch with her. The ER vet said they would send her info that Morty would be on a specific diet/antibiotics for a few weeks because she assumed I had enough of the antibiotic. Again, math clearly wasn't her best subject. What I'm trying to say, is I think my vet probably put it off for a while longer because she figured he wouldn't be changing diet anyway. I will call later today and see what they say about Cerenia.
 

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Try limiting her diet first. And then consider meds if a limited diet doesn’t work. That’s my recommendation. Is there an internal medicine specialist you can consult with? His/her schedule may be two months out. But you can always cancel the appointment if you stabilize him before then. You can have the ER and your vet records transferred to the specialist. Though if this is still a problem in the two months it might take to get to this appointment, s/he’ll probably want to redo the blood and ultrasound. Which is probably not a bad idea.
 

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Bile barfs can be from something that made them really sick. So sick that they reached awfully deep to bring it all back up. You’re in college. Surely you can remember a time you got sicker than your stomach’s capacity. 🍹😵🤮
 
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Try limiting her diet first. And then consider meds if a limited diet doesn’t work. That’s my recommendation. Is there an internal medicine specialist you can consult with? His/her schedule may be two months out. But you can always cancel the appointment if you stabilize him before then. You can have the ER and your vet records transferred to the specialist. Though if this is still a problem in the two months it might take to get to this appointment, s/he’ll probably want to redo the blood and ultrasound. Which is probably not a bad idea.
So the ER vet is a specialist vet. When I took him in he was initially seen just by the ER vet on duty, but since he stayed two days he was treated by a specialist. I assume this is why the bill was about 4k. The ER vet doubles as a specialist office as well. They have an internal medicine department, surgery department, etc and usually see people for referrals from regular vets. It was the internal medicine vet that did his ultrasound and told me the whole "cats must have cooked food" spiel. She only found a slight abnormalities in his intestines and respiratory system and low folic acid (aside from the original liver tests), so it's really inconclusive without a biopsy. Either way I can't afford a biopsy or another ultrasound right now so we'll just have to work with what we've got.

Side note- I was looking at Po's and Morty's gums last night to see if there was any inflammation. Morty's looked great! Po, however, has some more red inflammation in the back. We're gonna have to wait for his yearly exam in the summer but I'm willing to bet he'll need more teeth pulled. At least my regular vet specializes in dental care. :rolleyes:
 
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