6-month-old kitten ONLY 2.6 lbs!

[ldg]

I just have to say I so love your attitude about all of this. I know there have been down moments but way to take something most people would complain like crazy about (having to pay so much in vet bills that you need care credit) and turn it into a positive (that it will help improve your credit). Seriously, I was impressed before by your commitment to Charlie and desire to learn as much as you can to help him, but now I am above and beyond impressed. 

!!!!!

Hear hear!
l'm so glad this little guy found his way to you.

Third that! :lol3:


And you're among cat lovers who have been in the same position. Our family thought we were crazy for giving one of our kitties chemo when he was diagnosed with cancer. Well, we're about to celebrate his one year anniversary of completing chemo, and he's still (knock wood) in remission. You're SO not alone in this! http://www.thecatsite.com/t/252062/criticism-over-how-much-you-spend-on-your-cats

EB24, diaper rash cream is a great idea!

And Charlie91, the bland diet won't have all the nutrition he needs, but it's very easy on the tummy - it can help things "reset." We used it for a week at a time with our very sick kitty, but he was an adult, and I hadn't considered that before. I think EB24 is right - 3 days is probably a good amount of time for a little kitty (and let's face it - Charlie's little! ). If his stool improves even further on the bland diet, then maybe reintroduce his canned food by making his meals 1/2 canned food and 1/2 boiled chicken/rice.

Something else to consider, and this just use your judgement, but if he's getting better on the 1 billion CFU probiotics, since up to 5 billion would be safe for him, you can think about adding the probiotics to more than just one meal a day.

FYI, our kitties absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE the bathroom. Most cats do - don't expect a moment's peace in there ever again.

 

[charlie91]

Oh good!  I know my cousin is a great supporter.  He adores cats and was a good push to keep moving forward with Charlie, and is good at making his point clear.  We took on a responsibility when we picked Charlie up, a commitment.  And that responsibility has the weight of a life at stake, and a life in which I love!  So glad to hear others feel the same as I!

I'll look for the EB24 after work tonight then!  3 days on the bland diet, then re-introduce canned food?  Any specific type of rice or chicken?

I've already gone ahead and initiated that judgement myself.  

  Charlie is receiving a minimum of 3 meals a day.  All wet, and his breakfast and dinner both have the all-natural probiotic mixed in (since it was only 1 billion CFU)!

And it does not bother me at all!  I remember my cats I grew up with used to like to join me in the restroom as well!  As long as Charlie's happy, I'm happy.  And honestly I don't mind showering while he sits in the restroom with me.  It adds a presence to the room you won't find elsewhere! 

 

[speakhandsforme]

Did you ask the vet about his anus? There was someone who rescued a kitty recently, and the kitty needed surgery for anal prolapse. (Their vet took pity on them as college students and decided NOT to charge them for it!!!!!! :heart2: )

That was us

In the end, not even the surgery worked for Baggy -- it popped back out after a few hours. The vet seems to think he has a structural defect in his anus that prevents him from retracting it all the way, a condition perhaps unrelated to the straining due to his coccidia diarrhea (which is the usual cause of a prolapse). but it's definitely BETTER since the course of topical meds (a steroid and an antibiotic, as well as regular old Preparation H), just not back in all the way. The vet says he'll probably be that way forever, and he doesn't seem to be getting any infections from it.

Also, thoughts of those here about raw for poor Charlie? Of course he would need probiotics and all of that. I think it would almost certainly be beneficial, but could there be a concern about his immune system? Or something else? I'm just remembering Bugsy.

 

[charlie91]

That was us

In the end, not even the surgery worked for Baggy -- it popped back out after a few hours. The vet seems to think he has a structural defect in his anus that prevents him from retracting it all the way, a condition perhaps unrelated to the straining due to his coccidia diarrhea (which is the usual cause of a prolapse). but it's definitely BETTER since the course of topical meds (a steroid and an antibiotic, as well as regular old Preparation H), just not back in all the way. The vet says he'll probably be that way forever, and he doesn't seem to be getting any infections from it.

Also, thoughts of those here about raw for poor Charlie? Of course he would need probiotics and all of that. I think it would almost certainly be beneficial, but could there be a concern about his immune system? Or something else? I'm just remembering Bugsy.

Well it's a pleasure to meet you, someone who has stood in the same boat as we are currently in on the same damp deck.  We're pulling out of it though, slowly but surely!  I'll definitely ask about the bum, though it's not always been protruded.  Sometimes it goes back in and looks normal?  Other times it protrudes out.

Charlie is on a natural probiotic, Laurie (LDG)?  I think her name is, had suggested consisting of slippery elm bark, aloe vera juice, and acidophilus?  It appears to be helping soothe his diarrhea issues quite well!  He's also on an antibiotic that treats Giardia or Coccidia, can't remember?  They gave it to him empirically in hopes that it would help until test results come back.

Again, pleasure to meet you!!

 

[shadiecat]

Hi Dakota.  As far as the diarrhea, my cat Shadow had chronic diarrhea when I adopted him as a kitten.  We tried different antibioitcs and such which mostly made it worse.  I tried several different foods finding only "Purina Naturals" to work the best.  I also found a natural mixture called Diar-eez online.  It works great!!  You will find it at AllergicPet.com.  Hope this helps!

 

[michalann65]

What about the possibility of Corona Virus.  Had a similar situation with a brother & sister rescue.....sounds much like this.....the diarrhea went on forever.  Finally the vet sent their fecals to a lab and it came back Corona Virus.  Which I understand is not unusual in rescue kitties and a lot of them have it and sometimes we never know.  But in this case we couldn't miss it.  I also understand that this can also be a forerunner to FIP.  Our vet said that if we could get them to 3 years old without developing FIP we would probably be ok.  I am not sure I agree with that but they are approaching the 3 year mark and so far are very healthy and we finally seemed to beat the diarrhea.  We finally resorted to a sliver, and I mean a sliver of Immodium when the diarrhea got explosive and watery which would back it off enuf to let their little bottoms heal. This was at her direction.   I also remember using some Pumpkin.....and probiotics

 

[finnlacey]

Hi there!!! I'm back! My goodness what a popular thread. Glad to hear that Charlie is doing somewhat better, that's great news! As for your question of how problematic it would be if he had pancreatic insufficiency along with a parasite. It wouldn't be much worse than just having one of those things. Pancreatic enzymes would be added to the mix for the insufficiency and as we've been saying, a good low fat, high quality, wet food. 

 

[charlie91]

Thank you for the responses! 

Shadiecat, the antibiotics do seem to make it worse at times (at least the ones we've tried) we're on a new one for Coccidia and possibly Giardia?  So we'll see how it goes, still waiting on test results for pretty much all parasite (except T. Foetus) and for Pancreatic Insufficiency!

Michalann, we're waiting on some results for that as well, though we're trying to rule out curable possibilities first simply due to available funds.

Finnlacey, welcome back! 

 I've done my research on Pancreatic Insufficiency and it doesn't appear as though it would be too difficult to maintain.  Just waiting on those test results, I can't wait!

 

[speakhandsforme]

Well it's a pleasure to meet you, someone who has stood in the same boat as we are currently in on the same damp deck.  We're pulling out of it though, slowly but surely!  I'll definitely ask about the bum, though it's not always been protruded.  Sometimes it goes back in and looks normal?  Other times it protrudes out.

Charlie is on a natural probiotic, Laurie (LDG)?  I think her name is, had suggested consisting of slippery elm bark, aloe vera juice, and acidophilus?  It appears to be helping soothe his diarrhea issues quite well!  He's also on an antibiotic that treats Giardia or Coccidia, can't remember?  They gave it to him empirically in hopes that it would help until test results come back.

Again, pleasure to meet you!!

Nice to meet you too

Yes, acidophilus is the name of a bacterial species that serves as a probiotic. What I was referring to with "raw" was a raw meat cat food diet, consisting of meat you would buy from the grocery store (and a few other things, but the diet is 90+% meat and bone). Many of us here, including several on this thread, feed raw to our cats. Short of feeding them whole prey animals (which a few do!), it's the most natural, complete and healthy thing you can feed a cat.

It's also fantastic for cats with health problems, especially IBD and digestive issues in general. And while the raw may not cure him, it certainly won't hurt him. Raw benefits all kitties, sick or healthy.

We have a forum about raw here in case you'd like to know more in the meantime: http://www.thecatsite.com/f/65/raw-feeding-for-cats

The only hesitation I have is that raw may not be the best thing for Charlie to jump into at the moment with his immune system, at least until he's done with his treatment for parasites (giardia/coccidia). Of course, it may be fine, too. I'd wait for the judgment of a few others here who are more knowledgeable before you decide to do it.

Also, the anus thing -- yeah, it will go back in and out sometimes like that. Baggy's never looked completely normal, but he's still fine. Charlie's will probably go away when his diarrhea is done.

 

[ldg]

The clindamycin will treat coccidia and toxoplasmosis. I don't know about the giardia - don't think so. That would be panacur or metronadizole (Flagyl).

If you want to use babyfood for the bland diet, chicken or turkey (as EB24 pointed out) is best, and I recommend Beechnut over Gerbers's (which are the two most commonly sold in supermarkets here). Gerber's now has cornstarch in it. Beechnut was still just chicken and chicken broth, last I checked.

If you want to boil some chicken, just buy a chicken, or chicken breast or thigh... doesn't really matter what part. You'd basically just poach it with nothing but water. Keep the broth, and as EB24 said, just mix it 50/50 shredded chicken with rice, and add a little bit of the broth (and I always warmed it up).

As to raw.... long term, it's the best choice for any cat. :lol3: It's the healthiest diet (no additives), it's human food quality (and when money's tight, you can always eat the cat food! :lol3: ), you have control, and it's the most nutritious/bioavailable food for a cat (and they're obligate carnivores, uniquely designed to get all their nutrition from just animal parts). But I think it's best to get little Charlie stable first - meaning at least get the test results back, and find out if what we're dealing with. If it's not any of the parasites/bacteria or pancreatic insufficiency, then I personally think it's the best next "treatment" option. :nod:

 

[finnlacey]

Just make sure there's no onion or garlic in the baby food but yes, that's a good choice. 

 

[charlie91]

Alright thank you all again!  Yeah I'll wait for the test results to come back in before I decide to switch up his diet.  He seems to be improving and I feel most safe continuing what we're doing for a moment to see where it ends up before the results come in.

Which would be most beneficial?  The chicken and rice or the baby food?

UPDATE: Rather than his stool being more like an ice cream cone, it's still ice cream looking, but it's more like individual logs.  And smaller piles than usual.  He also isn't pooping quite as often and has dripped maybe once or twice the whole day (one drip per occasion).  Good or bad?  Also!  He played a little today and is not crying as much!  He's also more willing to roam on his own rather than being right next to one of us at all times!  Of course he still comes to us when it's time to relax, but he's been pretty active!

 

[eb24]

And you're among cat lovers who have been in the same position.

Our family thought we were crazy for giving one of our kitties chemo when he was diagnosed with cancer. Well, we're about to celebrate his one year anniversary of completing chemo, and he's still (knock wood) in remission. You're SO not alone in this! http://www.thecatsite.com/t/252062/criticism-over-how-much-you-spend-on-your-cats
 

And Charlie91, the bland diet won't have all the nutrition he needs, but it's very easy on the tummy - it can help things "reset." We used it for a week at a time with our very sick kitty, but he was an adult, and I hadn't considered that before. I think EB24 is right - 3 days is probably a good amount of time for a little kitty (and let's face it - Charlie's little! ). If his stool improves even further on the bland diet, then maybe reintroduce his canned food by making his meals 1/2 canned food and 1/2 boiled chicken/rice.
 

This was basically my thought. Since his tummy is better after the fast maybe try to take that even further by switching him to the bland diet. If you can get even a couple days without him having such bad diarrhea it's going to help tremendously. He will at least be getting some nutrients and it will give his poor little behind a break and some time to heal. If he does really well on the bland diet I would then consider adding a nutritional supplement paste to it and keeping him on it. Is it the diet he should be on forever? No. But, again, whatever works to calm his belly down while everything gets sorted out is what (IMO) needs to happen. 

You have started one of the more popular threads I have seen in awhile and that's amazing. Everyone here just wants to be as helpful and as supportive as possible. But, in getting so much advice you might get some conflicting advice. It's not that anyone is wrong it's just that we have all had different experiences and different successes (some use boiled chicken and some use baby food. Is one better than the other? Who knows. I have always used baby food because I work with much younger kittens than Charlie and the baby food is easier for them to eat). If a recommendation doesn't work for Charlie, or you are already doing something that you feel is working then by all means listen to your gut. You are the only one there with him, seeing firsthand to how he reacts. Consistency is the key to helping his stomach. So, once you find what works stick with it for awhile. I promise, no one's feelings will be hurt if you don't take their advice so long as Charlie is doing better!!! 

FYI, our kitties absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE the bathroom. Most cats do - don't expect a moment's peace in there ever again.

Oh this is so true. I think it's genius you have made the bathroom "Charlie's place." I do this with my fosters- I give them a small area at first and they are perfectly content because they don't know what they are missing! As long as it has their toys, their dishes, and their box they are happy campers!

And at least Charlie only sits on the floor while you shower. I am not even joking when I say that my little guy gets in the shower with me every morning. He loves water! When you reach that point you know it's all gone too far...... 

 

[ldg]

Alright thank you all again!  Yeah I'll wait for the test results to come back in before I decide to switch up his diet.  He seems to be improving and I feel most safe continuing what we're doing for a moment to see where it ends up before the results come in.

Which would be most beneficial?  The chicken and rice or the baby food?

UPDATE: Rather than his stool being more like an ice cream cone, it's still ice cream looking, but it's more like individual logs.  And smaller piles than usual.  He also isn't pooping quite as often and has dripped maybe once or twice the whole day (one drip per occasion).  Good or bad?  Also!  He played a little today and is not crying as much!  He's also more willing to roam on his own rather than being right next to one of us at all times!  Of course he still comes to us when it's time to relax, but he's been pretty active!

Individual logs is GREAT! Oh he's GOT to be feeling better! And playing and not crying is wonderful!

Cat poop should look like a tootsie roll. We were discussing it (along with other things) and posted pictures in this thread: (linked to a post where Carolina put up a picture of a solid poop from her kitty - the first solid poop in 14 months. !!! ) http://www.thecatsite.com/t/250579/starting-cold-turkey/30#post_3269199 Another pic: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/250579/starting-cold-turkey/30#post_3269292

***************************************

And a big to everything EB24 said. Most important - you're there with Charlie. Our input is just that - information based on our experiences. Trust your instincts.

 

[ldg]

OH! Just to add to your reading/research burden, I don't remember if I posted this link before or not, but this is a great place to start as re: learning about feline nutrition. It's written by a vet: http://www.catinfo.org/ Somewhere in that main piece she has pictures of regular poop vs. raw poop, but it'll give you a real good idea of what kitty poop is supposed to look like when eating a regular commercial canned food diet.

ETA: Ooops. The pic I was thinking of is actually in the "Making Cat Food" section. You can just scroll quickly down - look for the picture with poop on the blue scoop (there's one before that, but it doesn't show normal commercial food poop, just raw poop). http://www.catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood It's a comparison of raw fed poop (on the left) vs commercial food poop (on the right), but the point is that you can see what normal commercial food poop should look like.

 

[charlie91]

Yeah they're not quite like in those photos.  The color is pretty close!  But his poop is a little smaller and I couldn't pick an individual roll up like that?  It's all piled up, but I don't think it's quite that solid either.  Very very close though I will say!

And thanks!  Yeah it was perfect to confine his dripping to on a tile surface and a small area.  He loves it in there anyhow now!  The bathroom is now called "Charlie's Room" haha!

EB!  I'm so glad Charlie hasn't hit that point... Yet?!  He does stand up on the side to try and look in though.  Such a curious little booger!  Yeah I may try a bland diet following his test results (depending on what we find out) but right now the probiotic and Innova EVO is really starting to do the trick!  Not sure if the antibiotic is working or doing anything at all?  The antibiotic was so new when we started the probiotic it may be tough to tell.

So glad I'm getting such great advice from people who care! 

  Thank you all again!

ALSO: His tummy is still visually distended, after he eats.  It goes down after some poops and time has gone by.

 

[catnamedpanda]

Delilah used to bloat after she ate, big too. Like Charlie Delilah is small for her age always has been. She was sick in a much different way. But where I am getting is I wouldn't worry too much about him bloating after meals. I did find that Delilah did better if she ate smaller but frequent meals.

 

[catnamedpanda]

Delilah used to bloat after she ate, big too. Like Charlie Delilah is small for her age always has been. She was sick in a much different way. But where I am getting is I wouldn't worry too much about him bloating after meals. I did find that Delilah did better if she ate smaller but frequent meals.

 

[eb24]

EB!  I'm so glad Charlie hasn't hit that point... Yet?!  He does stand up on the side to try and look in though.  Such a curious little booger!  Yeah I may try a bland diet following his test results (depending on what we find out) but right now the probiotic and Innova EVO is really starting to do the trick!  Not sure if the antibiotic is working or doing anything at all?  The antibiotic was so new when we started the probiotic it may be tough to tell.

Oh I didn't think Diego would but he did and now I can't get him out of there! I have tried to think of ways to get a video of it because it's hysterical but I can't without ruining my phone or making what appears to be some sort of bizarre X rated shower tape! 

  Can't imagine that would be good for the legal career! And, ironically, Diego's nickname is 'the little booger' because of his shower shenanigans. Hopefully his and Charlie's similarities end with the nickname! 

Sounds like you have a good plan worked out for Charlie right now so stick with it and adjust if needed. Did you ever think you could be so happy to be talking about solid poops? 

 

[charlie91]

CatNamedPanda - Thank you for the insight!  That's good to hear.  I was a little worried, though most of my pets I grew up with (at a young age) would bloat up after eating as well.  We're doing like 2 main meals and 2 smaller, snack-like portions.  Each set has a sole purpose.  The larger ones I mix our all-natural probiotic in (thank you LDG SOOO much)! and the smaller portions we use to give him his antibiotic he's currently on.  And I've been making careful observation to ensure that the two anti/probiotic meals are given over 2 hours apart (thanks for that tip as well, our vet NEVER mentioned that!!  Nor did they mention anything about what to feed him... 

)

EB24 - Hahaha definitely not!  That is too funny!  We'll see how Charlie turns out, the nickname may be jinxed at this point, he already likes to be in there while we shower!  NEVER thought I would be so happy to be discussing nor viewing solid poop!  

  I grew up with cats, but never had to be involved in their health or nutrition, Halo (our blind Siamese mix) was my alarm clock and I fed her and Bailey (our Burmese who just recently went blind 

) in the mornings.  They both live with my mother out in Colorado though.  I miss em!  When I picked Charlie up I was attached instantly, he was so adorable and sat in my lap the whole way home (we didn't have a travel carrier yet) and I carried him into our apartment (which doesn't allow pets...  we're moving in the Summer for Charlie 

) wrapped up in what is now his favorite blankie!