40-50% of Feeby's diet is baby food meat

[FeebysOwner]

I think I read that when a cat's diet consists of at least 50% food that is not supplemented - as is commercial canned food - that standard supplements are needed. Is that true? Does any of it depend on the total calories being eaten overall compared to their body weight?

Feeby (18+ yo/Hyper-T treated with meds & CKD) is eating more calories than she needs, but I've noticed we are inching up to her baby food meat intake being close to 50% of her calories. She weighs around 11.5 - 12 pounds and lately has been eating well over 300 calories most days, with baby food meat closing on about 150 of those calories.

For reasons I won't go into here, I can try to reduce her baby food meat by a bit, but not by much. I know I can add supplements to baby food meat to make it 'complete', but is it necessary in her case? How would I go about determining if she does or does not?

FWIW - Short of some blood work numbers indicating CKD, the rest of her blood work (CBC/Chemistry panel) are fine. She was just diagnosed with small cell lymphoma (without any of the typical symptoms but based on additional testing of lymph nodes in her intestines), and we are currently considering options that could entail prednisolone and chemo. Not sure any of this matters to my original issue. Thanks!

 

[lisahe]

This is a good question! (A question that seems very math-intensive to me!) I'd turn the question upside down, though, and focus on the supplemented food she's eating: Would that part of her diet provide her with enough nutrients if that were all she ate? This is something I'd definitely want to check with the vet... though I recognize that not all vets are very helpful about questions like these.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

I've always heard that no more than 15% of their diet should be non-nutritionally complete. In Feeby's case, 50% is non-nutritionally complete, so I would say if you can add supplements to it, go for it. I know she's a picky eater though, so if it causes her to stop eating, then that's another story.

I'm so sorry about her recent diagnosis. I missed that one . The fact that she now has a good appetite is astounding!

 

[iPappy]

18+ years?? You're both extremely lucky I'm with the others, I'd run it by your vet but if she's a picky eater I would add things in very slowly to avoid creating food aversion. Are you thinking of something like Alnutrin?

 

[FeebysOwner]

18+ years?? You're both extremely lucky I'm with the others, I'd run it by your vet but if she's a picky eater I would add things in very slowly to avoid creating food aversion. Are you thinking of something like Alnutrin?

Sorry, I missed your post. My vet is pretty much like most of the others in that they really aren't nutritionists. I bet she wouldn't even be able to quote a percentage that would be applicable - could be wrong, though. And she might even tell me, like one of the other vets Feeby has seen to not bother with so much baby food meat as Feeby still is considered a bit overweight. So far, with her other issues, none have really seemed interested in suggesting that she go on a diet.

Due to the 2 types of baby food meat I give Feeby, I would have to get Alnutrin for one and something like E-Z Complete for the other (chicken vs. non-chicken, if I recall). Makes it a bit harder. At a minimum, I could add some taurine. Right now, I am not doing anything 'extra'. Just trying to find a balance in what she will eat and perhaps try to reduce the amount of baby food meat by a bit.

 

[lisahe]

How much other food (meaning food that's not baby food) does Feeby tend to eat each day? If the calories are roughly appropriate for her weight, you could probably figure she's likely getting enough nutrients. And then you could just consider the baby food supplemental feeding.

 

[Box of Rain]

What sort of baby food meat(s) are you serving? Which brand and from what sized jars?

Bill

 

[FeebysOwner]

How much other food (meaning food that's not baby food) does Feeby tend to eat each day? If the calories are roughly appropriate for her weight, you could probably figure she's likely getting enough nutrients. And then you could just consider the baby food supplemental feeding.

If I go with the standard 20-25 calories per pound, then to maintain/support her current 12 pounds, it would be 240 - 300 per day of 'nutritionally complete' food. The 'cat food' she eats averages around half of that - so for sake of simplicity let's say150. Assuming she does in fact need between 20-25 calories per pound of body weight, the nutritionally complete food would only support a cat weighing between 6 and 7.5 pounds. And, if you consider mrsgreenjeens notation of no more than 15% that is not nutritionally complete, it gets much worse!!

I just can't get her to eat more cat food, and it is going to be very hard to get her to eat a lot less baby food meat! Overall, that is pretty much saying she needs supplements.

 

[lisahe]

If I go with the standard 20-25 calories per pound, then to maintain/support her current 12 pounds, it would be 240 - 300 per day of 'nutritionally complete' food. The 'cat food' she eats averages around half of that - so for sake of simplicity let's say150. Assuming she does in fact need between 20-25 calories per pound of body weight, the nutritionally complete food would only support a cat weighing between 6 and 7.5 pounds. And, if you consider mrsgreenjeens notation of no more than 15% that is not nutritionally complete, it gets much worse!!

I just can't get her to eat more cat food, and it is going to be very hard to get her to eat a lot less baby food meat! Overall, that is pretty much saying she needs supplements.

Yup, it does sound like she needs supplements. On the bright side, at least the most basic baby foods -- like the very plain Beech-nut that Edwina ate so much of when she was recently recovering from surgery -- are a good start for a complete food. Alnutrin is probably less risky than EZ, which I recall having a more, hm, assertive smell that it took our cats some time to get used to. And it's not difficult to add liver (particularly freeze-dried) to Alnutrin. We can't use EZ any longer because something in it (I'm pretty sure it was the green-lipped mussels) makes Edwina barf.

Good luck -- it can be so hard to get a cat to eat a better diet!

 

[daftcat75]

She needs supplements. Nutrition is a balance, not a finish line. And she's eating an awfully imbalanced diet.

The hardest part of balancing is figuring out what proportion of those baby food jars is meat. USDA labeling standards requires meat baby food to be at least 60% meat. So we could start there.

16 oz in a lbs / 2.5 oz in a baby food jar = 6.4 jars in a lbs.

1 jar / 60% meat = 1.67

6.4 jars * 1.67 = 10.69 jars = 1 lbs of meat

In other words, you'll take the amount of powder Alnutrin/EZ Complete recommends for 1 lbs and divide by 10 to balance one jar of meat baby food. You may need to add extra water to get it to mix right and to get it to a Feeby-acceptable texture.

This is rough back of the napkin calculations. But it should be better than not including them at all.

 

[FeebysOwner]

What sort of baby food meat(s) are you serving? Which brand and from what sized jars? Bill

The ones she has liked the best are Gerber Stage 2 chicken (90 cal) or ham (80 cal) for a 2.5 oz jar. She rejected the Gerber turkey and beef a long time ago and was not all that crazy about the associated Beechnut meats, which are much harder to find anyway.

This all started nearly 2 years ago when she would throw up in the morning from going too many hours without eating. She refused (and still does) to eat any canned cat food after about 7P - and long ago stopped eating any dry food I would leave out for her. To resolve this issue, I started giving her some baby food meat late in the evening, which she gladly ate. That stopped the stomach acid throw ups in the morning. She is very routine oriented, so now she has come to expect the baby food every night.

It morphed when my husband retired earlier this year and he thought she could 'benefit' from a bite or two in the AM before I get up to give her breakfast, so he started giving her some baby food meat then too! He won't feed her the regular cat food because it would require him to add her AM meds to it, and well...I will stop there...

 

[FeebysOwner]

Alnutrin is probably less risky than EZ, which I recall having a more, hm, assertive smell that it took our cats some time to get used to. And it's not difficult to add liver (particularly freeze-dried) to Alnutrin. We can't use EZ any longer because something in it (I'm pretty sure it was the green-lipped mussels) makes Edwina barf.

I'd have to back and read details again, but one of these two supplements are not recommended to be used with chicken.

As far as green lipped mussels, Feeby has been taking Glyco Flex Plus, which contains green lipped mussels, as an arthritis supplement for years. They don't make her barf, but from time to time I think the mussels are a bit overwhelming for her taste-wise.

 

[FeebysOwner]

You may need to add extra water to get it to mix right and to get it to a Feeby-acceptable texture.

And, if there is flavor affecting ingredients in either Alnutrin or EZ Complete, texture won't be the only issue!!!

 

[FeebysOwner]

Here is what I previously read about making baby food meat 'complete', just so you all know -

 

[daftcat75]

And, if there is flavor affecting ingredients in either Alnutrin or EZ Complete, texture won't be the only issue!!!

Alnutrin should be much more of a neutral flavor than EZ Complete. Though Feeby may enjoy the EZ Complete flavor.

Worst case scenario, she doesn't like either. In that case, I would simply pick up a calcium supplement. Figure out how much to balance 1 lbs of meat and then divide that by 10 for 1 jar of baby food. Calcium imbalance is the one I would worry the most about. The more meat without bone or calcium supplement, the more her body may need to draw upon her bones to maintain a pH balance.
Do Cats Need Calcium Supplements?

This is what I've used with Krista who was very picky about homemade food. She liked the raw meat. She liked Alnutrin. She did like EZ Complete but her gut didn't like it. But my attempts to construct a homemade recipe when she could no longer have the egg in Alnutrin usually fell apart when it came to B vitamins. But the very first supplement I started with was calcium and she never had a problem with this powder.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002AAO2M/?tag=thecatsite

 

[daftcat75]

Here is what I previously read about making baby food meat 'complete', just so you all know -

I would go with their calculations over mine. They've clearly put a lot more thought into this than I have.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Worst case scenario, she doesn't like either. In that case, I would simply pick up a calcium supplement...I would go with their calculations over mine. They've clearly put a lot more thought into this than I have.

If SuperChem panels fairly indicate calcium, she is 'good to go'.

Yeah, their calculations are probably pretty valid - not to mention mind-boggling.!! It still seems like I have to have two separate 'concoctions' - one for chicken and one for non-chicken.

 

[Box of Rain]

My back of the envelope calculations, similar to what daftcat75 has done, would offer the alternative of adding a little under an 1/8 teaspoon daily of finely ground eggshell, which should balance the calcium w/o adding phosphorus (a plus for CKD cats). Like daftcat75 I'd be most concerned about insufficient calcium.

Adding 8 grams of chicken liver would balance (or at least highly improve) the profile of other Vitamins. One pound of chicken liver would give you 50+ days of "vitamins" for roughly $3. If one freezes chicken livers on wax paper on a tray (or plate) until solid, then ziplock, it is easy to cut off small slices of frozen liver with a decent knife. You'd get good at estimating 8 grams if you checked yourself with a food scale.

To cover taurine, you could supplement with synthetic taurine powder at the rates mentioned above.

Bill

 

[daftcat75]

If SuperChem panels fairly indicate calcium, she is 'good to go'.

Yeah, their calculations are probably pretty valid - not to mention mind-boggling.!! It still seems like I have to have two separate 'concoctions' - one for chicken and one for non-chicken.

I wouldn't go by calcium levels in blood test because the body is adept at using the bones as a calcium bank to meet its needs. Her blood calcium levels may be . But her bone density may be suffering for it.

 

[Box of Rain]

I wouldn't go by calcium levels in blood test because the body is adept at using the bones as a calcium bank to meet its needs. Her blood calcium levels may be . But her bone density may be suffering for it.

Yep. One does not want to inadvertently be causing an 18 year old (or any aged cat) to leach calcium from their bones.

Bill