13 week old kitten 13 year old cat

[Furrywurrypurry]

Alldara ah thank you!!

I’ll check out the nail trimming posts and thanks for the tips.

I could be wrong but I think there’s a tiny possibility precious was attempting a game of chase with him today. He’s been gentler with her numerous times. She’s retreated then stood her ground on the stairs, a few swipes and he ran off and she returned to where he chased her from. I got him to follow me into another thinking I’ll leave her to relax, she came in, not to me, to look for him, he chased but wasn’t overly bitey, he then went into the utility room she went looking for him, he snuck up on her from behind, I lifted him off and pointed him in the direction of the living room and he ran in there to his tunnel where he started to doze, precious came in jumped on the sofa I was stroking and talking to her he watched intently but didn’t move from his tunnel she then jumped down onto the rug about a foot from his tunnel and lay down, he took this as an invitation to wrestle, she left the room but immediately tip tied back to the door way and I’m thinking at this point she’s messing with him, she has to be. There was a final small tussle on the stairs, I grabbed him and precious sat on the stairs washing before going upstairs probably to sleep. No hissing or growling from her during all of this, just the dramatic wailing. She definitely isn’t a fan of him jumping on her but honestly does this sound to you like she’s engaging him?

 

[Furrywurrypurry]

A couple of the times he approached her he did what he does when I play chase with him, run up to her then run away like a rocket

 

[Furballsmom]

honestly does this sound to you like she’s engaging him?

I think so

 

[Furrywurrypurry]

I think so

Furballsmom yesssss!!!! I thought so!! I really hope so. They’ve both eaten and been sleeping since their little escapade earlier!

 

[Hellenww]

Reading through your posts, I caught two or three times where you said there was already improvement in his behavior, so that's a definite positive. Also, I'm going to take a shot at something, I'm wondering if she's holding back because he's a kitten and she's hardwired not to do harm. As he grows and matures however, I'm thinking that she'll be less restrained and will proceed to teach manners.

This was my thinking also. Adults, even seniors, put up with a lot from kittens and teach them limits as they get older. The more they are together the more comfortable Precious will be with teaching him limits.

On nails. You can ask your vet to trim his nails. I had an adult get an accidental scratch on the eye ball. It healed but scared me. He will learn the play with soft paws but when they are young they get excited and forget to keep the claws in. Under 6 mt I'd check them weekly. Some weeks they grow quickly.

 

[Furrywurrypurry]

Hellenww

Thank you for taking the time to share your input. I hope this is the case as he couldn’t ask for a better teacher. She lacks a little in confidence but she has since day one and I’ve never been able to change it but I feel it contributes to her gentle, sweet nature. I never had a single concern about introducing the kitten to her on her part, and she hasn’t given me any reason to feel otherwise, I think that’s why I was so thrown when he became the instigator of problems but I guess part of the reason he acts how he does with her is because he’s comfortable with her.

oh gosh that is scary with the scratched eye. I’m going to attempt it this weekend if I can’t manage it he’s in for a vaccination next week so I’ll get the vet to do it. They’ve been done once by a friend who is more confident than me but they don’t live closely so I really need to get to grips with doing it myself, not only need, I want to

 

[Alldara]

F Furrywurrypurry I agree with the above. Definitely play!

I watched a ton of videos when I got two wrestling boys. It was really comforting

Basically, you want to ensure that they will look away from one another to look at something interesting or an interesting sound. Or maybe the follow the interesting sound with their ears. That means it's not serious and it's play. Also turn taking for poking, air chomping and play biting etc.

Some things are a little more cat specific. For example kittens may hiss during play. Both my cats retained this and will hiss at toys during play. Usually if one hisses they other will back off, they may take a break and then return to play.

My boys always have their ears pinned when swatting at one another. This is for safety and is normal for cats who learn to play with one another as well.

Calcifer's paws are always a good brush for Magnus so he's gets some tuffs of hair but he's not pulling chunks out with his mouth which would be a serious red flag. They should never pull out hair in their mouths (unless someone's shedding really bad and you can see chunks come out anyways).

 

[Furrywurrypurry]

Alldara oh no! He sometimes does have her hair in his mouth, it’s only been a couple of times and it’s been when he jumps on her back when she’s running away. I’ll have to watch that, she does have some loose hair in terms of they’ll be a good bit on the brush when I groom her but I wouldn’t say it was anything out of the ordinary.
I certainly think there’s some cat dialogue going on that I don’t understand, I don’t know if she’s repeatedly trying to get his attention in a bid to teach him to be more gentle or what but she did the same yesterday evening, all the protest noises and wailing when he chases and jumps on her but then repeatedly going to where he is and following him. He was playing on the rug after a tussle which I’d picked him up and distracted him from and she deliberately comes into the room into his eyeline and straight back out . I’m thinking hang on I’ve just tried to get him to stop bothering you and here you are making sure he sees you again. I get the feeling she’s definitely not 100% comfortable but at the same time she’s really not trying to avoid it. She has tonnes of room to escape him if she needs to and last night when she was tired she went off to bed, at which point I closed the bedroom door whilst we were downstairs with him so he can’t ambush her whilst she’s sleeping.
im definitely still going to monitor all their interactions closely and not allow him to rough house her too much but I am going to allow them to have their dialogue because there are clearly things at play between them that I don’t fully understand.

 

[Furrywurrypurry]

So I’ve watched and filmed a few interactions between them today. He has still jumped on her a good few times, she retreats, sometimes she will retaliate and she knocks him to the floor, im not sure if he takes this as playing , maybe it is, she runs with her tail low though so I don’t think she enjoys it. But all the same she does put herself out there to him. He’s getting much easier to distract in terms of playing with toys when she’s around, I just can’t leave him on his own without him deciding she’s the toy.
There was one particular incident today that tells me she is schooling him, she was on the arm of the sofa, hr jumped up tried his antics, she batted him down on to the sofa cushions, he stopped, stared at her for a good 30 seconds, tapped one paw in her direction, she did a low growl, didn’t move, just looked at him, again he stayed, he tried to approach again, she growled he backed off, he jumped up onto the arm behind her, she didn’t react, usually he would be on her back biting at her ears etc, he didn’t he backed away, he jumped back down on to the sofa cushions, chewing his own feet, rolling over like ‘look how fun I am’ then he walked away and played in his tunnel, left the room and she followed to see what he was doing. I think perhaps if she didn’t run on other occasions then it might be more like this. It was a definite ‘I don’t want to play’ moment and he listened. There have again been a few things today that make me think they are working things out, if he can just not jump on her then we are good

 

[Furrywurrypurry]

Alldara
I took note of few things you mentioned, I shook tub of treats mid tussle, the both looked at me, he had hair in his mouth again, I checked it was 3 strands, I get more when I stroke her so I’m hoping that’s not an issue. He has his ears pinned at times when she bats him, she never does. She lies down near him and I get the feeling that’s she’s yearning to just chill out next to him. I think when he locates his off button it’ll be all good. At the moment if I didn’t put him into his own room he would not sleep, every tiny movement wakes him, but I know that will change eventually.

 

[Furballsmom]

There have again been a few things today that make me think they are working things out, if he can just not jump on her then we are good

Your post (#29) sounds really good!

 

[Alldara]

F Furrywurrypurry That sounds all really good.

Some cats really are just vocal during play. And he's beginning to learn when to stop so that's excellent. I think your older cat is enjoying and maybe even re- teaching herself how to play, and that's where you're noticing she's a bit nervous but she wants to play too.

A few hairs like that you're right it's likely just that she needs brushing. That much can come off on the hand during a gentle pet. Chunks would be concerning, but again only if he tearing them out. Shedding season they might both kick a little fuzz off one another.

 

[Furrywurrypurry]

Your post (#29) sounds really good!

 

[Furrywurrypurry]

F Furrywurrypurry That sounds all really good.

Some cats really are just vocal during play. And he's beginning to learn when to stop so that's excellent. I think your older cat is enjoying and maybe even re- teaching herself how to play, and that's where you're noticing she's a bit nervous but she wants to play too.

A few hairs like that you're right it's likely just that she needs brushing. That much can come off on the hand during a gentle pet. Chunks would be concerning, but again only if he tearing them out. Shedding season they might both kick a little fuzz off one another.

Thank you for the positivity!!
I think you might be right about her relearning to play, she hasn’t been as active as I’ve seen her in the past few days in a while. Normally after she would wake me for food around 5am she would tend to go on to her cat tree in our bedroom and sleep, but now she heads downstairs, she’s not necessarily fully on board with his type of play, but it’s amazing what a little bit of a different perspective can do.
I can’t thank everyone who has replied to me enough, the support, tips and advice have been incredible. My stress level was pretty high when I first posted here a few days ago and it’s gone wayyy down, and that’s a lot to do with replies I’ve received on here making me look at the dynamic between them differently.
It may be a little while until I can put my feet up and relax when they are together but then I have a 13 week old kitten, I don’t expect to relax!!! But what I thought might potentially be a disaster might actually turn into a beautiful friendship!!
I can’t wait to share their ongoing story.

 

[Furballsmom]

 

[Furrywurrypurry]

So I thought I’d post a little update.

Things are still going in the right direction I feel. Gollum is definitely becoming that little bit calmer. Not hugely but I’ve noticed it, after we have played, if I sit quietly he will sometimes just come sit next to me and doze off, he’s started to play a little bit more independently rather than trying to find ways to kill himself if I stop entertaining him for 2 seconds. And we have had many occasions now where if he’s interested in playing with something enough he will happily get on and play, with precious observing, without approaching her to tackle her. We have even had 2 occasions where he has started to fall asleep with her nearby. It tends not to last long, if he hears precious washing herself, the movement seems to trigger his need to approach her. He still tackles her at least 10 times per day, but it’s getting less frequent and he can actually be around her now without it happening constantly which is a huge improvement from where we were at not too long ago at all. I feel perhaps I intervened a little too much, by not letting her put him in his place. I wasn’t concerned she would hurt him but about the stress on her. I don’t let things go too far, if he gets relentless I intervene but I do let her hold her own to an extent now.
She hasn’t played with him yet but she has tried to join in when he is playing with certain toys, a feather wand and a little ball took her fancy but he won’t allow it for more than a few seconds, he will dive on her. He chases her off from places at times like the cat trees and the arm of the sofa which I’m hoping is just bratty kid behaviour and not a sign he’s trying to be top dog so to speak.
precious definitely isn’t shy about telling him when she’s not impressed, she thinks nothing of throwing him to the ground, sometimes he takes the hint, others he keeps going and will jump at her and bite her repeatedly. Sometimes she will just do a low warning growl if he gets a little too close and he simply backs off. But the number of times he doesn’t approach her at all is definitely increasing.
I feed them separately still, I likely will for a while, he will eat anything in sight and for an older girl, precious is absolutely no better. However I did forget to pick up her bowl yesterday and I found him just observing her eat, I’m hoping that’s a sign of respect that he won’t approach her whilst eating? As soon as she was done she was fair game to him.
I think it’ll only be 2-3 weeks before we can neuter him, so I’m hoping that may calm things a little more.
He continues to be in his own room at night and when he sleeps for prolonged periods and I see that being the case for a little while to come. So all in all precious is around him for 6-8 hours per day, so she gets plenty of time to herself and with me, she was rolling on her back like a little kitten today with the feather wand and then promptly jumped up and started to wash herself as if to wash away the embarrassment of the un ladylike behaviour.
I haven’t felt the need to keep them in separate rooms when Gollum is up and about for a number of days now, the only time I ever close any door is if precious is sleeping, I don’t like the idea of him jumping all over her when she’s fast asleep. To that ends I also have a little red collar and bell on the way for the little man, it might give precious the heads up a little more.
All in all, not perfect by a long way, he still bothers her far too much for her liking, but moving in the right direction, they are currently sat in his room together and there haven’t been any wails of displeasure from her whilst they have been in there, it’s only been around 5 mins but I’ll take anything I’ve been limiting treats to only when they are in each others presence and they end up nose to nose sometimes. He definitely is still overstepping her boundaries as she does hiss at him and really bat him to try to stop him from lunging at her. I can only hope that it continues to settle

 

[Hellenww]

This is wonderful news! If she's able to see him calm and sleeping she will see him as less of a little monster.

When it was time to sleep my adults would hold the kittens down. If she still has some size on him try giving her a chance to do that after you get the bell. It sounds like she has good kitten instincts even though she hasn't been one for a long time.

 

[Alldara]

Really wonderful progress considering he's not even neutered yet.

I love that he's watched her eat too. It means he's feeling food secure and knows there'll be some for him even if she eats. I find that so important in a multi-cat home..we really work on this with Cal. It sounds like he's taking some of her signs as play and she might be playing a bit too. Cat play does look rough sometimes.

 

[Furrywurrypurry]

Hellenww thank you I’m so pleased with how it’s going. I think I’m lucky that I’ve had the space and time to dedicate to this but hopefully it shows that perseverance pays off. That and I’m blessed with a very special lady in precious.

I doubt she would be able to pin him for any length of time, she’s not the largest of cats and he’s like a bag of water . But she definitely knows when he’s settling down because she takes that as a sign that she can too.

 

[Furrywurrypurry]

Alldara i think if the neutering takes even the slightest edge off him then we will have a pretty harmonious household, yes he’s a typical crazy kitten but as kittens go and from some of peoples stories I’ve read on here, he’s a good kid.

i was intrigued watching him watch her eat too, he was the stillest I’ve seen him when he’s not sleeping haha. He also does the heavy blink when I stroke precious, only when he’s not at full speed mind, but I still take that as a positive. He isn’t blinking at me but at the motion of my hand on her.
Even if precious doesn’t enjoy the roughness at times I’m still convinced he’s brought her a new lease of life, she became very sedentary when Smeagol got sick, he slept a lot and she kinda followed suit, I had assumed it was just age but she spends way more time awake now and gets around the house a lot more after spending the majority of her time in the bedroom when Sme was sick.