13 week old kitten 13 year old cat

[Furrywurrypurry]

Hi,

I’m new here, I’ve been searching other posts but can’t find a situation like mine. I’m looking for any input and advice.
We got a 13 week old Russian blue male kitten around 5 weeks ago. I also have a 13 year old female British short hair cat. Introductions went swimmingly, on the first day of full visual contact they slept within about 30cm of each other on our bed. My older cat has the patience of a saint and is the most gentle girl and has been absolutely wonderful with him, showing an eagerness to engage in play, she actively seeks him out.
However things went a little south on the third or fourth day when the little man gained confidence. He has started treating her like a giant toy, he chases her, ambushes her, jumps on her back, bites her. She gets upset runs away making a tonne of noise, she bats and hisses at him but he won’t back off.
she isn’t showing any signs of stress and when he’s chased her off she makes approaches back to where he is again. She desperately wants to join in playing when we have our play sessions (I do play with her separately) she peeks around the door where we are playing and she will try to join in but he just dives on her and she runs off.
i keep them separated a lot because of this, the little one has his own bedroom where he spends all night and during some of his time out and about, I’ll pull the door to our bedroom where my big girl sleeps closed. So she gets plenty of time out from him.
I play with the little one at least 3 hours per day one on one and he gets lots of independent exploring and play time besides that around the house, apart from him harassing my girl he’s so well behaved. We are clicker training (it’s early days but he’s learning) he is in a great routine in terms of sleeping and eating etc. he actively comes and tells me he wants putting in his bed to sleep when he’s ready to, he’s loving and affectionate, if he were here alone I’d think he was too good to be true because he’s so good, I just dont know how to stop him being so rough with my girl.
Even when he’s asleep he will still drag his exhausted self up to chase her at times, other times his legs will twitch and he will moan like he doesn’t want to wake up but his legs are making him chase her. I have tried redirecting him with very very little success, I can wave wands and balls and fish and everything but he can’t take his eyes off her and eventually pounces. The only small success in that respect is a small mouse, when he gets this mouse he carries it in his mouth, runs with it at the speed of light and then finds a corner to take it to to finish it off. My girl will happily observe him whilst he does all of this and if he goes behind a curtain she tries to go and investigate. But the second he gets done with that mouse, she becomes the giant mouse and he takes off after her, the wailing she makes is very dramatic as I’ve noticed there’s a lot of noise out of her even if he doesn’t actually make contact, she was the same if my previous boy looked at her the wrong way, however he definitely goes too far for her boundaries sometimes if Im not quick enough to get to him. He just won’t get the message when she slaps him down and hisses he keeps right on coming at her.
I feel bad for her as she clearly so desperately wants to be his friend, she has always been a cats cat and we lost her companion a few months ago. But he’s just too rough for her, she’s a gentle chase a feather like a little ballerina type despite the fact she’s a big girl.
Anything anyone can suggest I’d be so grateful. I’m lucky at the moment that I have a lot of time to dedicate to this. I’m up at 5am and only out of the house an hour or so max, sometimes not even that. I’m happy for the little one to be in his bedroom at night for as long as it takes, as I know he’s super happy in there but it would be nice to have some harmony during the day

 

[Alldara]

If you can afford it and are amniable to the situation, the best you can do is get another kitten for him to play with. I'd recommend another one who also likes to wrestle and is cuddly with other cats and perhaps a bit docile.

It's hard for humans to get all the energy out a kitten needs. We had two adults fully focused on it during quarentine and it was to no avail.

Another bonus of this is that when your older cat passes eventually, the younger two will still have one another.

Some big kicker toys like a flipping fish or something that "responds" to him might be helpful.

 

[Furrywurrypurry]

If you can afford it and are amniable to the situation, the best you can do is get another kitten for him to play with. I'd recommend another one who also likes to wrestle and is cuddly with other cats and perhaps a bit docile.

It's hard for humans to get all the energy out a kitten needs. We had two adults fully focused on it during quarentine and it was to no avail.

Another bonus of this is that when your older cat passes eventually, the younger two will still have one another.

Some big kicker toys like a flipping fish or something that "responds" to him might be helpful.

Thank you for your reply, I’ve seen this suggested in a few places I’ve read, and not only is it not really an option for us at the moment, I feel if we were to have gotten a second kitten we should’ve done it when we got the first, going through the whole separate room, scent swapping etc again with my older cat and and the kitten to introduce another new kitten, im trying to be in two places at once currently I couldn’t manage to be in three . And I’d be distinctly worried that perhaps I’d just end up with two kittens harassing the old lady instead of one.

In all honesty we are managing the situation quite well currently, I feel both cats are happy, well cared for and having their needs met and well beyond. I on the other hand no longer have a life, or have any capacity left in my brain for anything that’s not cat related . Not that I mind that, It would just be nice for my bigger cat if I could in some way encourage the little one to be more gentle so she could actually enjoy his company.
He has a flippy fish which he loves, he has tunnels and cardboard boxes, a cat tree that’s taller than me, wands, worms, feathers, balls, mice, crinkly paper etc etc and multiple scratch boards, the big girl has all of these things too, besides the flippy fish, she was never a fan. I’ll try a kicker toy as I’ve seen them mentioned elsewhere and I didn’t know they existed.

i do try to allow them some time together each day as despite the craziness I can see the beginnings of a bond. I just remove one of them from the situation if he gets too much.

Anybody have any ideas at what age this kind of roughness starts to wane a little? So far I’ve fed them treats on the occasions little one had restrained himself but they aren’t many, but if he would start to settle even a little I feel that the rewards would start to take effect, he’s responding really well to clicker training.

It’s been a long time since I had a kitten, any pointers, advice, tips or things I’m missing would be greatly appreciated

 

[Alldara]

Yes, it was the advice I resisted for a long time, and we should have just taken two kittens to begin with I think.

Many people say that the energy goes down around a year or two. I did not find that.

I've got one approaching 3 and the other approaching 2 and neither's rough play lowered in that time. We got them both separately at 5 months. Unfortunately, our 17 year old cat is no longer with us anymore so I can't be of judge beyond that. I'm sure our two will wrestle for awhile.

You're doing all the right things! And giving your older cat lots of breaks from the younger cat is great. You might be able to find enrichment they can enjoy together such as birdwatching.

You may also consider harness training and taking the younger cat on walks to wear it out. I use the RC Pets vests for this (never use just a collar as it is dangerous). Those are in Canada only but you can find similar slip resistant ones online I believe.

 

[Furrywurrypurry]

I’ve never had a wrestler before. I’ve had 3 cats in the past 15 years all from kittens and none have wrestled . it’s new to me.

Did they ever settle with your 17 year old prior to her passing? Or was that not an issue.

the only thing I’ve found they can share at the moment are treats. However just now he’s been up and about and he managed just a few gentle taps of her tail rather than a full on assault. I think it’s when she runs or moves around that he can’t resist. He’s now flat out on the sofa and she is on her favourite cat tree in our bedroom.

Ah yes I have been reading about harness training as it’s mentioned in the clicker guides. My previous 3 have all been indoor only cats, we live on a very busy road, but it’s something I’ll look into. Thank you

 

[Alldara]

Magnus is a very very gentle cat, so he did settle in regards to wrestling with Nobel. I also used a brightly coloured oven mitt to wrestle him. I slide my hand out once he grabs it and use the edges to wiggle it around. I don't find that they associate it with my hand or learn to attack my hands in any way (I did the same with Nobel when he was younger). Our kitchen ones are very plain, and rubbery so they don't bug those either.

Calcifer never learned to not wrestle Nobel. The last few weeks was a constant battle to have him leave Nobel alone. Nobel was happy to oblige a little before the last few weeks, and then he felt too unwell. Cal only wants to wrestle with other cats. No toy will do!

A laser pointer lately seems to be helping wear Cal down and he's less agressive with his wrestles with Magnus. We do about 10 minutes of the laser pointer and then toss a few kibbles for him to chase so he doesn't end up with okay frustration. They both love to wrestle one another though. It's pretty constant: wrestle, eat, nap, watch birds together, get human attention, repeat.

If it's the movement that's causing her to chase there are a few remote control toys or move on your own toys to try.

As for harness training, we only take Magnus in our yard and the shared green space as I worry about the roads as well. He walks like a dog around it and has good recall from training indoors. If you feel it's too risky where you are located, skip the advice for sure

 

[Furrywurrypurry]

Magnus is a very very gentle cat, so he did settle in regards to wrestling with Nobel. I also used a brightly coloured oven mitt to wrestle him. I slide my hand out once he grabs it and use the edges to wiggle it around. I don't find that they associate it with my hand or learn to attack my hands in any way (I did the same with Nobel when he was younger). Our kitchen ones are very plain, and rubbery so they don't bug those either.

Calcifer never learned to not wrestle Nobel. The last few weeks was a constant battle to have him leave Nobel alone. Nobel was happy to oblige a little before the last few weeks, and then he felt too unwell. Cal only wants to wrestle with other cats. No toy will do!

A laser pointer lately seems to be helping wear Cal down and he's less agressive with his wrestles with Magnus. We do about 10 minutes of the laser pointer and then toss a few kibbles for him to chase so he doesn't end up with okay frustration. They both love to wrestle one another though. It's pretty constant: wrestle, eat, nap, watch birds together, get human attention, repeat.

If it's the movement that's causing her to chase there are a few remote control toys or move on your own toys to try.

As for harness training, we only take Magnus in our yard and the shared green space as I worry about the roads as well. He walks like a dog around it and has good recall from training indoors. If you feel it's too risky where you are located, skip the advice for sure

Thank you for responding. I’ve read some of your responses to other posts regarding the oven mitt and it’s something I mentioned to my husband this morning to give a try.
I guess I lucked out with my three since despite my husband knowing no better when my old boy was younger and playing handsy with him, none of them ever posed me any issues with being too rough. My big girl is the gentlest cat I’ve ever encountered and I think she just doesn’t understand the concept of wrestling. Even if he taps her tail she protests, I just don’t think she likes him touching her in that way. But she’s very eager to join or watch other play. The more time they spend with one another the more moments they have where he plays with something else or he’ll just bat her gently, but when I turn my back I hear my girl moaning dramatically, I know a lot of the noise sounds worse than it is because I observe and she makes a racket sometime even when I stroke her, she’s just a noisy cat, but I think when he jumps at her face, that’s her line crossed because she will hiss at him.

I think you guys are telling me there’s nothing I can do if it’s in his nature, aren’t you?

I guess I am in for a hectic few years

 

[Alldara]

Sometimes! If the wrestling goes well with your husband that might deter him a bit.

You basically won't know until it progresses.

My family raised pitbulls before and the general consensus was: wrestle with your pets and react if they teeth you at all (no hitting of course - usually a dramatic eeep or ow sound and then moving away - basically what another animal friend would do), so that they would never touch skin with teeth purposefully. It's really not the recommended route for cats, but it's worked for me and sounds like it has worked for your husband I never recommend it to others. But the one cat I didn't do this with (ex-roommates cat that still is with ex-roommate), was a hand and feet nightmare.

We need our cats to be gentle when not threatened. Too many children in our lives, they're always supervised, but it only takes second as we all know!

 

[Furrywurrypurry]

Sometimes! If the wrestling goes well with your husband that might deter him a bit.

You basically won't know until it progresses.

My family raised pitbulls before and the general consensus was: wrestle with your pets and react if they teeth you at all (no hitting of course - usually a dramatic eeep or ow sound and then moving away - basically what another animal friend would do), so that they would never touch skin with teeth purposefully. It's really not the recommended route for cats, but it's worked for me and sounds like it has worked for your husband I never recommend it to others. But the one cat I didn't do this with (ex-roommates cat that still is with ex-roommate), was a hand and feet nightmare.

We need our cats to be gentle when not threatened. Too many children in our lives, they're always supervised, but it only takes second as we all know!

With me he’s super gentle, he has the odd mishap but the only time I really feel his teeth is when I’m removing him from jumping on my girls back when he’s hyped up. He will chase my feet occasionally but when I play stamp at him he runs off like a rocket which I understand means he just wants to be chased.
I guess I just have to give it time. As long as they both seem happy and content which I’m 100% sure they are, I’m happy to let the current situation of little visits with each other continue for now. There will come a time in a few months when I’m home less and then it may pose a problem if I can’t leave them together but I’ll cross that bridge if and when I need to.
Thanks for all the advice guys.

 

[Alldara]

With me he’s super gentle, he has the odd mishap but the only time I really feel his teeth is when I’m removing him from jumping on my girls back when he’s hyped up. He will chase my feet occasionally but when I play stamp at him he runs off like a rocket which I understand means he just wants to be chased.
I guess I just have to give it time. As long as they both seem happy and content which I’m 100% sure they are, I’m happy to let the current situation of little visits with each other continue for now. There will come a time in a few months when I’m home less and then it may pose a problem if I can’t leave them together but I’ll cross that bridge if and when I need to.
Thanks for all the advice guys.

Best of luck. Happy to hear how it progresses or see any photos you might like to share!

And yes, he probably would like to play chase haha. Lots of that here too. Magnus's favorite.

 

[Furrywurrypurry]

Best of luck. Happy to hear how it progresses or see any photos you might like to share!

And yes, he probably would like to play chase haha. Lots of that here too. Magnus's favorite.

I’ll be sure to update. I’ve searched for a lot of info on this subject and any forum threads I find end pretty abruptly and so I’d be happy to leave this here for others in the same situation, whichever way it goes (positively I hope). There have been a few positive moments today where he has been ok around her and when he has tapped her he hasn’t given chase and she is definitely wanting to be around him a lot and it’s not wanting to just be around me, she will happily relax in another room away from me when he’s in his bedroom asleep, when he wakes she comes into his bedroom and other rooms he’s in. She only withdraws to another room when he goes that little bit too far for her, even then sometimes he will return. I just worry that as he gets bigger and stronger he might hurt her if I can’t try to teach him that it’s wrong. She hisses and spits at him when he crosses the line but he just doesn’t seem to understand that she could do him real damage if she chose to.

I absolutely love the stories of your cats that I’ve read!!

Happy to share pictures. First days in his new home, meeting his new friend a week later and some pics from today of them both.

beautiful lady is called (my) precious

Little man is named Gollum.

His alter ego smeagol and precious companion sadly left us in January, he had an inoperable, aggressive intestinal tumour which he succumbed to 4 months after diagnoses. It was never my intention to get another kitten so quickly but without going into detail some things just seem fated. So here we are

 

[Furrywurrypurry]

Another picture of precious completely at ease with him once he relaxes. He’s in the little hidey hole.

I know she’s happy to be around him I think my biggest concern is that might change if he doesn’t chill out a bit

 

[Furballsmom]

Reading through your posts, I caught two or three times where you said there was already improvement in his behavior, so that's a definite positive. Also, I'm going to take a shot at something, I'm wondering if she's holding back because he's a kitten and she's hardwired not to do harm. As he grows and matures however, I'm thinking that she'll be less restrained and will proceed to teach manners.

 

[Alldara]

F Furrywurrypurry Oh they are beautiful. I'm so sorry for your loss. Adopting a new cat is a beautiful way to honour him though. Loving your theme!

I do understand, we ended up with Magnus only a few days after Lily passed. A story for another day though really.

I agree with Furballsmom She will be more strong with him as he gets older. But he's already beginning to understand that she doesn't like being chased. Most cats will box occasionally. Nobel used to box and poke the boys too. He especially loved sitting on a chair and waiting for them to dart by.

He may go through a rough with others phase. The woolen dry ball has come in handy here for that!

 

[Furrywurrypurry]

Reading through your posts, I caught two or three times where you said there was already improvement in his behavior, so that's a definite positive. Also, I'm going to take a shot at something, I'm wondering if she's holding back because he's a kitten and she's hardwired not to do harm. As he grows and matures however, I'm thinking that she'll be less restrained and will proceed to teach manners.

You’re right, there have been a couple of times I’ve noted he’s not been as bad, and tbh those times I’ve mentioned have just been today as I’ve allowed them a little bit of an increased amount of time together.
When I think about it, he may have been with us 5 weeks but in terms of time he’s been around her, it probably doesn’t amount to even a day. Who knows maybe the novelty will wear off like it does once he’s explored a room (wishful thinking)
I doubt

Reading through your posts, I caught two or three times where you said there was already improvement in his behavior, so that's a definite positive. Also, I'm going to take a shot at something, I'm wondering if she's holding back because he's a kitten and she's hardwired not to do harm. As he grows and matures however, I'm thinking that she'll be less restrained and will proceed to teach manners.

youre right I did notice 3 occasions yesterday where he wasn’t as full on, he did give chase in the end on all 3 occasions but even my husband commented on one of the times that he was really good, he walked around with her in close proximity for a few minutes and when he did give chase he stopped.
I think it’s easy to lose perspective when it feels quite stressful, I think the noises precious makes set my teeth on edge, even though I’m well aware a lot of it is drama it just triggers my instinct to protect her and gets me quite stressed out.
however when I think about the fact that even though he’s been with us 5 weeks, his visits with her probably amount to less than 24 hours of that time. I stopped all contact between them the first few times it happened, not fully understanding that it wasn’t actual fighting. It has only been this past week or so that I’ve really closely watched their interactions realised there’s a lot of noise for nothing sometimes and allowed things to go on for longer until I know precious is getting uncomfortable.
So I guess when I look at it like that it’s really not a lot of time and the little positives I’m seeing might actually be bigger than I imagine

 

[Furrywurrypurry]

Apologies I didn’t realise I had posted half a post, I had to come back to it to finish it and didn’t realise I had posted the draft

 

[Furrywurrypurry]

F Furrywurrypurry Oh they are beautiful. I'm so sorry for your loss. Adopting a new cat is a beautiful way to honour him though. Loving your theme!

I do understand, we ended up with Magnus only a few days after Lily passed. A story for another day though really.

I agree with Furballsmom She will be more strong with him as he gets older. But he's already beginning to understand that she doesn't like being chased. Most cats will box occasionally. Nobel used to box and poke the boys too. He especially loved sitting on a chair and waiting for them to dart by.

He may go through a rough with others phase. The woolen dry ball has come in handy here for that!

They are my world, thank you.

Things have a funny way of working out sometimes. He’s here now and I wouldn’t change that for anything despite the bits of stress, he has my heart.

I’m hoping he may learn before she has to go too savage with him . He’s going to be neutered as soon as he hits 2kg.

it’s just me and my husband at the house but I’m encouraging people to visit often and I instruct my nieces and nephews to never use their hands, but he does approach my husband and immediately begin nibbling his knuckles which I tell him off for (the husband not the kitten) but I shall invest in some dryer balls and kickeroo toys just in case.
I’m just beginning another day with them and so I shall see what crazy today brings

 

[Alldara]

F Furrywurrypurry oh he will calm a bit after neutering too. And you'll enjoy the post neuter as the medication makes them pretty cuddly usually.

I'm sure he'll continue to learn. 13 weeks is so young.

If he's in a nibbling stage he could be teething too. Be cautious of any silicone or string toys but certainly give lots of things to chew. Magnus's favourite was cardboard straws. He's still a chewer so we give him lots of cardboard and paper to tear up. (Caution too with cardboard as Magnus did have a bought of constipation as a kitten from eating it. He doesn't anymore) if you're interested there's a post here about it: Can anyone recommend a good chew toy for a cat?

You can start getting him used to teeth brushing too by rubbing a q-tip along his teeth as he will allow. He's quite young so getting him used to being handled in any grooming way (brushing etc) will help you for life!

 

[Furrywurrypurry]

F Furrywurrypurry oh he will calm a bit after neutering too. And you'll enjoy the post neuter as the medication makes them pretty cuddly usually.

I'm sure he'll continue to learn. 13 weeks is so young.

If he's in a nibbling stage he could be teething too. Be cautious of any silicone or string toys but certainly give lots of things to chew. Magnus's favourite was cardboard straws. He's still a chewer so we give him lots of cardboard and paper to tear up. (Caution too with cardboard as Magnus did have a bought of constipation as a kitten from eating it. He doesn't anymore) if you're interested there's a post here about it: Can anyone recommend a good chew toy for a cat?

You can start getting him used to teeth brushing too by rubbing a q-tip along his teeth as he will allow. He's quite young so getting him used to being handled in any grooming way (brushing etc) will help you for life!

Sorry for not just doing the mention as I’m not sure how. it’s the first time I’ve ever really used any type of forum.

I’m hoping the neuter will calm him slightly, bet seemed to think he would hit weight around 16 weeks as he was 1.2kg at last check.

He’s definitely a nibbler, he has a number of cardboard boxes in his room and the edges are all covered in little pin holes, he hasn’t actually chewed any off thankfully. He only has one string type toy, it’s a fishing rod kinda thing and it’s put away in a cupboard after I have played with him with it. I’ve kitten proofed to the best of my ability in terms of wires etc, I’m lucky really that we had a remodel of most of the downstairs rooms so there are zero wires that are not hidden and everything upstairs I’ve clipped or tacked to walls.
Oh the teeth thing is a fabulous recommendation I’ll give that a try, thank you!! I have bought a nail trimmer but I haven’t attempted it yet, I’m scared because he’s quite the wriggler but it’s something I definitely want to get into the habit of doing. So looking after his teeth needs to be a priority also.

 

[Alldara]

F Furrywurrypurry you type the '@' sign and then start to write the name It should pop up. And no problem. I just wanted the smaller typing space.

That is wonderful yes! Chewers can be a bit danger prone but it sounds like you have a wonderful set up. Its a balance between kitten proofing and teaching.

There's definitely some nail posts on the forums you could check out, but just playing and touching his paws regularly and letting him sniff is good. It's as much about getting them used to the types of touches as it is the action itself. Start with just one claw when he's sleeping after and work your way up.