13 Month Old Persian Still Hasn't Had First Heat

[KatsPurrrsians]

According to the breeder I recently got my female persian from, she has not had her first heat yet. I know Persians in particular mature later than most breeds, but I've never heard of one being quite so long. It makes me wonder if there could be some other underlying reason for this. She's rather small, only about 6 lbs. Which I guess isn't too unusual. I'm really just grasping at straw here. Has anyone heard of any specific reasons this could happen or is it relatively common?

 

[talkingpeanut]

Are you referring to the two adults you just adopted? Are you planning to mate them?

 

[KatsPurrrsians]

That was the original breeders plan for them, but his circumstances changed and he currently has a move underway and wasn't able to take all his cats with him, hence him adopting these 2 out to me. They were originally supposed to be part of his breeding program. He knows that I too breed and he was hoping I would breed them, but I definitely wanted to wait a while... Get them comfortable in my home, with me, and the family before making that decision. I'll have a better idea as to whether they should be breeders or not. That's why I'm wondering about heat... so far I've been keeping them together and they've been happy to have one another. I think it's helped a lot with their confidence, stress levels and comfort. I'd hate to separate them right now (& possibly undo the progress we've made in socializing them) just based on the fact that she's yet to have her first heat (due to worrying she "might" go into heat any moment) especially during this adjustment period. But I don't want to chance a possible mating either.

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

I'll have a better idea as to whether they should be breeders or not.

Do you mean strictly from a socialisation aspect here? Generally speaking, the test results from the PRA-pd and PKD1 combination test, the FGF5M4 test, and the two Detailed DNA marker tests will give a pretty good idea (assuming the markers are examined by a qualified geneticist familiar with Persians) as to the worthiness of a breeding pair, and it's precisely the reason for the due diligence of timely genetic testing performed by all breeders, since it has such an enormous impact on the female's future health, in that a female spayed before her first heat has an 86% lower risk of mammary cancer (and 91% lower when spayed at six months rather than at one year).

That said, 13 months is extremely late for a cat not to have yet experienced her first estrus.
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[talkingpeanut]

I think this whole situation is concerning. I would be worried about the female's health first. But I would also worry that you know nothing about her personality and whether she is an impressive standard for her breed. I would absolutely not risk having her get pregnant too young and before you know if she is well adjusted.

 

[KatsPurrrsians]

Yes, most agreed 1CatOverTheLine ! They've had basic testing such as PKD, FeLV & FIV testing done. The genetic testing is on my list. I'm still just trying to get them comfortable with me and in my home (hence me saying I'd have a better idea down the road, as they still won't let me pick them up or really even get too close).

So you do agree that she's quite old to have never gone through first estrus? I'm wondering if stress could be playing a role in this? I've only had her for a couple of weeks at most. Her previous lifestyle was very laid back and non stressful though.

I'm in the middle of trying to get them used to the rest of the upstairs and I think I might separate them just to be sure I don't accidentally miss any possible heat signs. I've heard of silent heats... could this be a possibility?

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

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I agree that 13 months is unusually long, but there are a few cases of cats reaching their third year before their initial estrus (though it's primarily confined to the giant breeds - Maine Coons, Norwegian Forest Cats, and cetera). That doesn't mean that your Persian has a "problem" but I would have her seen by a veterinarian regarding the matter, just to be on the safe side.
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[talkingpeanut]

Yes, most agreed 1CatOverTheLine ! They've had basic testing such as PKD, FeLV & FIV testing done. The genetic testing is on my list. I'm still just trying to get them comfortable with me and in my home (hence me saying I'd have a better idea down the road, as they still won't let me pick them up or really even get too close).

So you do agree that she's quite old to have never gone through first estrus? I'm wondering if stress could be playing a role in this? I've only had her for a couple of weeks at most. Her previous lifestyle was very laid back and non stressful though.

I'm in the middle of trying to get them used to the rest of the upstairs and I think I might separate them just to be sure I don't accidentally miss any possible heat signs. I've heard of silent heats... could this be a possibility?

Yes, silent heats are possible.

 

[posiepurrs]

It isn't unheard of for the time of year a cat is born to play a part in sexual maturity. That maybe the case here. If you do take her to the vet I would suggest a reproductive specialist. What concerns me more is the fact that the cats are not letting you handle them. It doesn't sound like they are well socialized, which to me is extremely important.

 

[KatsPurrrsians]

It isn't unheard of for the time of year a cat is born to play a part in sexual maturity. That maybe the case here. If you do take her to the vet I would suggest a reproductive specialist. What concerns me more is the fact that the cats are not letting you handle them. It doesn't sound like they are well socialized, which to me is extremely important.

Yes, I agree! It's becoming more and more concerning to me that they are so afraid and non-social. I've been strictly going by the book with their introduction into my home, making sure to spend as much time as possible with them daily, around the same time every day, increasing the time each visit to their room, keeping kids and other pets away as to not stress them more, bringing them treats, reading aloud to them (so they get used to my voice etc), and all the other proper steps that are suggested when bringing new cats home. Yet they still shy away any time I come around. The female hisses but the male is better. He's let me pet him once or twice. But still not an ideal warming up like one would hope for. The male has shown interest in exploring the rest of the house so I've opened the door him and he's ventured out of his room numerous times, but runs back when the kids come around or other unfamiliar faces, which is to be expected. I just hate closing them off all the time, especially if one or the other is showing signs of wanting to come out and explore.

I know the man who previously owned them was single yet had other cats. But no kids or other family members. He was/is a doctor so he was gone a lot due to being on call and his work schedule in general, so I just assumed they'd not been around many people (or woman for that matter) and that this played a big role in their socializition. They seem to be more comfortable with my husband. This too led me to believe that it's simple attributed to their upbringing. I'm taking baby steps with them though. Going at their pace. I've purchased some calming products to help also.

Ive bought a kitten from the same breeder in the past and she was great! Warmed up after a day or two like most kittens. So I think it must just be the lifestyle of the man. I certainly do hope they come around. My other cat I got from him was hands down the best kitty I've ever had (she passed away from FIP late last year)! I could go on for hours about all the wonderful characteristics she had! It about killed me when she passed. Even my mom who can't stand cats fell in love with her. She had a great personality, very social, very affectionate, well behaved, and the list goes on. She was actually litter mates to the female I just got. So I was very much looking forward to bringing these guys home and having them become happy members of my family.

 

[talkingpeanut]

Yes, I agree! It's becoming more and more concerning to me that they are so afraid and non-social. I've been strictly going by the book with their introduction into my home, making sure to spend as much time as possible with them daily, around the same time every day, increasing the time each visit to their room, keeping kids and other pets away as to not stress them more, bringing them treats, reading aloud to them (so they get used to my voice etc), and all the other proper steps that are suggested when bringing new cats home. Yet they still shy away any time I come around. The female hisses but the male is better. He's let me pet him once or twice. But still not an ideal warming up like one would hope for. The male has shown interest in exploring the rest of the house so I've opened the door him and he's ventured out of his room numerous times, but runs back when the kids come around or other unfamiliar faces, which is to be expected. I just hate closing them off all the time, especially if one or the other is showing signs of wanting to come out and explore. I know the man who previously owned them was single yet had other cats. But no kids or other family members. He was/is a doctor so he was gone a lot due to being on call and his work schedule in general, so I just assumed they'd not been around many people (or woman for that matter) and that this played a big role in their socializition. They seem to be more comfortable with my husband. This too led me to believe that it's simple attributed to their upbringing. I'm taking baby steps with them though. Going at their pace. I've purchased some calming products to help also.

These don't sound like cats that you should breed from.

 

[posiepurrs]

I have heard of cases where the cats were dependent on each other rather than bonding with a human caretaker. It was suggested that they be separated so they would bond with the human. I am not saying this is the case here not seeing and handling the cats, but something to consider. Right now given the temperaments you are seeing, I don't think I would use them for breeding. Parents, especially the male affects the kittens dispositions and if the 2 parents are scaredey cats (no pun intended)the kittens probably will be too.

 

[KatsPurrrsians]

I have heard of cases where the cats were dependent on each other rather than bonding with a human caretaker. It was suggested that they be separated so they would bond with the human. I am not saying this is the case here not seeing and handling the cats, but something to consider. Right now given the temperaments you are seeing, I don't think I would use them for breeding. Parents, especially the male affects the kittens dispositions and if the 2 parents are scaredey cats (no pun intended)the kittens probably will be too.

Do you think it could simply that their previous living conditions are responsible for their current attitudes? If I had not owned one of the litter mates to the current female I would most likely think it was their personality, but as a breeder myself, I know how important it is to socialize your kittens at a very young age.

I've met both of their parents and they were curious and came right up to me upon the first meeting (much like these guys when I initially came to picked them up from their breeder). It seems like this behavior didn't begin until they were taken from their home and comfort zones when I bought the home to my house. I know adult cats are especially harder to rehome than kittens for sure.

The male is definitely more social and less afraid than than the female. Perhaps the female just isn't a "breeder". Im hoping she'll at least become a happy member of the family. I'm wondering if I should consider the male as Tom? Obviously only time will tell as far as personality and tempermant are concerned. As I've said, I haven't had them long and would want to keep them for at least a few months, if not longer , before making any major decisions.

 

[talkingpeanut]

But are you prepared to separate them? I worry that will be further damaging to them.

 

[posiepurrs]

But are you prepared to separate them? I worry that will be further damaging to them.

I wasn't suggesting that, only speaking of what I had heard from others. I would probably do just as katspurrsians is doing for fear of driving them ever farther away from human contact. They will take a tremendous amount of patience and may never be comfortable with being petted. I have a girl here who does not like to be touched. She was born here, handled from the time she was just a few minutes old. As she grew she became a touch me not, unless it is her idea. I take what she will give and do not force the issue.

 

[talkingpeanut]

I wasn't suggesting that, only speaking of what I had heard from others. I would probably do just as katspurrsians is doing for fear of driving them ever farther away from human contact. They will take a tremendous amount of patience and may never be comfortable with being petted. I have a girl here who does not like to be touched. She was born here, handled from the time she was just a few minutes old. As she grew she became a touch me not, unless it is her idea. I take what she will give and do not force the issue.

I am referring to the fact that they are male/female and intact.

 

[KatsPurrrsians]

Well over the last few days the male has been coming out more and more and wanting to check out everyone and everything in the house, while the female has stayed in their room up on the bed. Her behavior is pretty much the same when I come in and the male isn't in with her. She has even approached me a few times. So I think I'll give it a try and first see if she may be ok on her own (with me instead of her feline friend) for a few hours at a time by bringing her into my room. That was my next step in socializing them, but instead of bringing them in my room together, I'll try it this way and see if that helps bring out her human affection that i witnessed with she and her previous owner. She's been around other cats her whole life so maybe putting her with another female would help (when the time is right of course-- I definitely won't push other cat introductions on her until she's ready). But yes, posiepurrs , it definitely seems like it will take time and patience on my part. Which I'm more than willing to do give her/them.

I'm not against getting her spayed at all. I think if I can at least get her comfortable first before putting her under any majorly stressful situations or making a big decision like that I'd feel more confident about my decision on whether to do so or not. It's just so perplexity compared to the behavior I saw the last two times I met both cats. They were both very social and not afraid at all in their previous home. These are the first two adult cats I've taken in so this is all new to me. I know my home is quite an adjustment compared to their previous lifestyles.