Which To Neuter First?

Hi All!

I've been feeding 3 strays for a few months - 1 TNR female and 2 unneutered males.

I have an appointment to get one neutered via a TNR group. I've never trapped before and I have to provide transport to/from the appointment. I don't feel like I can successfully trap 2 cats at the same time and transport them in the same vehicle without causing additional stress. So the question is - which cat do I neuter first?

Cat 1 - Khan - orange cat, unknown age, sprays, sometimes aggressive to other cats (due to hunger, food scarcity aggression, and I think he's had a rough life in general,) very skinny, constant face wounds, is learning I'm a safe person

Cat 2 - Mister Meowgi - domestic shorthair, I think he's pretty young, super friendly, no spraying, fighting only when provoked by Khan, trusts me and will let me pick him up

Here are my thoughts: Khan barely trusts me, if I take care of him first then he won't hear Mister Meowgi when he's in the trap. I think Mister Meowgi would leave Khan alone if he's in a trap. I do not know if Khan would try to fight Mister Meowgi if Mister Meowgi was in the trap. Mister Meowgi trusts me and will likely continue to trust me or let me earn his trust back after seeing Khan trapped. I don't know if Khan is healthy enough to be neutered. I don't want to wait too long to get Mister Meowgi neutered.

What are your thoughts?

I'd do Khan first it because he sounds like the most likely to get a fatal injury in a fight or hurt Mister Meowgi because the hormones are driving him to do so. He also is probably the more likely of the two to find a female in heat.

Whichever one goes into the trap first .

If you get to choose, I'd probably go with the older tom first. It sounds like the young tom hasn't quite realized his tom-ness yet, and probably won't until next spring, so you have a while to get him done.

There are usually local TNVR groups who can help you trap cats. You may want to google "TNVR cat groups near me"
ONe phone call to one group, will lead to more info, usually.
It can be trickier to trap cats than you might think, and you "sort of" kind of, only get one chance per cat, what i mean is,
If you get the cat half in or half out of the trap, and the cat gets away, or worse, gets hurt,
that cat will not go anywhere near a trap again for
a
long
long
long time.

Your mileage may vary, but, that seems common amongst cats who have been badly startled by or hurt by traps.
Whichever cat SEES the trap go down, on that other cat? may be much harder to get HIM into the trap, since he HAS SEEN what happens!!


YOu will want to learn alllllllll about how to
trap a cat.
Read articles, watch videos, and talk to those who trap cats. Practice with your trap many many times so you know Exactly how it works.
There are variations amongst trappers. Sometimes, i depends on the situation, the time you have to accomplish this, and that particular cat's level of suspicion.
I do it this way:

I begin by feeding the cat NEAR the trap for several days,
same time every day, same place,
so the cat shows up.
(Many people skip that step, but, for me, that is how i do it, to further ensure my target cat does not get spooked)
I trap in the morning or in the evening.
I DO NOT EVER EVER SET OUT A TRAP AND JUST LEAVE IT>
i stay by my traps. I might be inside my car if the cat is too scared of humans,
but, i am always watching the trap, ready to run over and throw the blanket on trap and bring cat home.
(I keep my cats on my patio in safe area the night before surgery if i can catch them the day before)

anyway,
back to how to how i trap a cat:
Every day I am bringing the trap ever closer to the cat food, day by day,
the trap IS NOT SET YET, nope, it is just sitting there, closed.

Over time, I now have the trap open.
I now begin feeding the cat barely inside the trap, so he gets comfy with his head in it.
I have a piece of cardboard on floor of trap, so the food doesn't fall out the bottom of trap,
and so the feeling of the bars on his feet will not creep out the cat.
On the 2nd or 3rd day,
I have only crumbs of food in the open door of trap,
and they lead to the jackpot of canned tuna or mackeral or salmon,
way way in the back, which when the cat goes back that far, the trap will close.
again, quickly throw a sheet over the trap.

Have your back seat covered with trash bags or a shower curtain from dollar store, as well as puppy pads, and puppy pads on floor of car, too.
I have fit 2 traps in my car, no trouble, but do keep traps covered at all times.

If the trap goes off because the cat bumps it or something,
and startles the cat, he will be leery of the trap afterwards.
MOST TRAPS are "slammers" and they are usually silver color,
and there is a diagonal line in the trap when it is viewed from the side.
I strongly discourage ppl from using SLAMMERS, but, many ppl do use them successfully.
but I have hurt cats in "slammers" because cautious cats often tend to "keep one foot out of the trap"
and BAM! that slammer goes down and hurts their leg.

also, the cats REeeeeeally reeally freak out in slammers, when the trap slams so loudly and they are caught, and their fur explodes
to make themselves look twice as big and they scream.

It is awful to see, so QUICKLY throw a sheet over the trap, then the cat calms down. Have the sheet at the ready.

Where are you getting your trap from?
Traps are not cheap.
Whether you are borrowing or buying (try to borrow, to save costs)
My recommendation is to "try" to borrow a brown color trap called a "Tru-Catch" trap. THey usually have 2 doors, and they are far far far less likely to injure the cat who leaves his back paw out on the grass.


These traps are much safer for cats, and they close fairly softly and quietly, and there is far less chance of the cat getting their back leg slammed.

Most local TNVR groups will loan you a trap for a refundable deposit,
and the local TNVR groups can advise you on where the ferals get surgery for low cost.
Most of the low cost feral surgeries require that the cat arrives IN the trap. (not in a pet carrier, but, in an actual trap)
YOu have to have an appt.
They will give you advice, they "prefer" cats be nothing by mouth after midnight.

I always pay a little extra to get a microchip and to get the cat treated for fleas, ticks and worms. Yeah, the cat WILL recatch all those again, but, at least, for a while, the cat gets a break.

I keep my cats overnight INSIDE The trap,
and then, i keep the cats a up to a week or two, (Most ppl say this is not neccessary, but i worry they feel crappy from the meds for fleas, worms, etc)

but on day 2, i move the cats into a giant dog cage, with litter box, and hidey hut,
shown here:



I keep the cages mostly covered, so that the cats are calmer.
If the cats are not friends, i keep cages far apart.

I do,
admittedly,
go a little overboard on the Recovery Rooms for my ferals...
this extended recovery is NOT Required at all.
Most people set the male cats free next day,
but, i keep the cats, depending on how the weather is,
and how the cat is doing.

well, i probably forgot to add some info,
but, others will be by with more info.
GOOD ON YOU FOR SPAY AND NEUTER!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!

Thank you all for your input - it is truly appreciated! It's good to know that Mister Meowgi will likely not morph overnight into an aggressive tom. That is reassuring - I'm definitely leaning towards Khan at this point. I definitely do worry about him getting injured severely during a fight, so it makes sense to make him the priority.

I could get Mister Meowgi into a carrier if I needed to - I think trapping him will likely be less of a challenge than trying to trap weary Khan.

I am working with a TNR group - they just haven't been very responsive at answering questions. I will be getting a trap through them, although my HOA also has one I can borrow. I've been reading up on trapping - but haven't been able to find anything about protecting the cat overnight while they are trapped. I've seen a baby opposum (it was a 'baby' because it was only 1 foot long....... apparently adults can be 4 FEET long. Ick.) in my courtyard, where I would be trapping. I don't really have the option to bring the trap in overnight as I have a compromised indoor kitty who I can't risk. The good news is the appointment is on a Sunday - so I should be able to be around for most/all of the time the cat is in the trap. Although they want me to call by noon the day before the appointment to confirm the cat is in the trap - that seems quite early to me - is that a standard?

Ideally I will wait until only Khan is around (this happens daily) before setting the trap and bringing his food out. Definitely planning on taking as much time as I can to get him acclimated to the trap being in the area. I already have one appointment scheduled, waiting to make the second appointment for another weekend.

Plans are hard to make when trapping. Lol Cats never seem to appear when we want them. I agree with getting the older Tom first if possible. Either cat would be good though. If you happen to catch the younger one, get him neutered. I assume you will be releasing him afterwards? Upon his release, try and get the older one as soon as possible. Neutering either/ both should reduce aggression after the hormones decline.To keep a trapped cat safe, you must bring it somewhere. A bathroom will isolate it from your cat. I have both FeLv cat and FIV with heart worms. I brought in over 100 by isolating them in a small closed room. Stuff a towel under the door is you are still worried. A garage will work too if it isn’t too hot. A trapped cat is at the mercy of anything that comes along as well as being terrified , struggling and at risk of heat/ weather. Leaving them alone is a very risky idea. Just cover the trap before bringing it in and keep your cat out of the room. I have not had any problem, ever with transmission of anything. I rescued an FeLV colony years ago, same routine and no transmission of illness. The key is isolation and thoroughly cleaning the surfaces after the cat goes for neutering. Feral Mom makes some good points as do all those posting. If you could get the younger cat at the same time in a carrier then one in front seat, one in back should prevent any fighting. Puppy pee pads in the trap/ carrier are a very good idea since the cats will be confined there for awhile. Any way you feel you can mange this, it’s great that you are helping these kitties! Thank you! Welcome to the site and the world of being a rescuer! Please let us know how things are going for you and the kitties!

My guess it's gonna come down to which cat you can trap first.

Jcatbird said:

I brought in over 100 by isolating them in a small closed room.

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Woah! That is awesome!!

I'm pretty intimidated by trapping and the whole process, so I appreciate all of the insights you are sharing. I do have a laundry room where I could possibly isolate in the trap, highly dependent on trap size though as it's a small room. Appreciate the note about putting a towel under the door - I think that would make me feel better.

The plan is to release both once they are neutered - but recently I have been thinking Mister Meowgi could be adoptable. I don't know how to go about really figuring out if he can be though. He did break the skin on my ankle once when he was following me when I took out the trash. I think something spooked him since he was out of his normal territory (I think he thought he was protecting my by coming with me?) and so he had a reflexive reaction to bite. I don't know if that would disqualify him from being adopted or not. Since then he's taken a few questioning nibbles on shoes, but that has stopped over time. I've also started playing with him with a shoelace to wear him out before these trips as he's definitely a more active cat who needs to be tired out. Thoughts?

He is just giving play, assertive, hopeful or love nips. If you have physical contact with him, he can be socialized and it sounds like he is hoping for that. Of all the cat and kittens I have worked with, all were socialized and are living happy lives now as indoor only cats. They could go out, they could go all over my house but I turned my sunroom into a special kitty room and they all love being there. They take turns coming to snuggle Mom. Some like to get in the bed at night. They have become very content knowing they are safe and where their next meal will come from. There is a process to socializing but many here can guide you through that. I originally came to TCS for assistance but not I am posting to share the experiences of the cats with others. I am grateful for every one of the kitties I have had contact with. Many live with me now and bring joy and laughter into my home.
A new member has recently gone through a situation that is similar to what you describe. She hasn’t introduced the new kitty to her cat yet but he was a nipper too. All has been progressing very well. No more nipping. The new kitty just snuck a second with the older cat by sticking his head out to look. Lol Introductions should come soon. You are not alone in your thoughts about Mister Meowgi. I think it would work fine if you decide to bring him into your family.
There are many here who have posted rescue and socializing stories. I can send you links if you wish to follow one or read completed stories. You can also do a search on ferals and rescues. The site provides a great deal of tips and helpful information.

Where I take my ferals for surgery, they are Not that rigid about the empty stomach rule,
they say,
"Bring 'em in, bring 'em in, bring 'em in!!" I would guess some places are more strict than where i go.

Once or twice, i was unable to trap my target cat the night before, and didn't trap the cat til morning of surgery,
and did bring cat in, told them i have Noo idea last time cat ate,
and still,
they fixed the cat, and the cat did not puke. No problems.

Obviously, that is NOT ideal, because a cat could become nauseous after surgery. but, luckily, either the cat had not caught anything to eat that morning, or we got lucky.

Usually, if i can trap the cats the day before,
and i feed the cat very well, big ol fat meal,
to sustain the cat throughout the next day of scant food,

and then, i remove all food
and leave only small dish of water for the night before surgery.
but,
like Jcatbird says, setting "time lines" for trapping cats is challenging.

also, to help you feel more sure about bringing in a feral in a home with a compromised kitty in your home,
I do the same thing, in a way. The cat in our apartment, is my daughter's cat, Not mine,
and she does not give the cat vaccines or flea treatments, (long story, but she thinks these things are dangerous to cats, and the cat has no fleas)
so my cat "could" catch anything i bring into home.
so, in a way, my indoor cat is somewhat "at risk" imo.
but then again,
our shoes track in who knows what?

i have brought in flea and tick covered lil ferals with worms (and dog knows what else?) but i brought them right into my home, (and i have bug phobia)
placed the trap in the bathroom, for the night before surgery
and i did the towel roll at crack of door like Jcatbird suggests,
and no problems. NOthing.
(the typical trap fits nicely in most tubs, btw, but do put down a bathmat to prevent scratching the tub, prevents trap from rocking, too)

I clean the bathroom thoroughly after the cat is gone to surgery,
and scrub it all again, after the cat is set free back where he lives. I usually will also spray bathroom down with flea killer, just in case.
I do not spray my car with flea killer though, and i recently heard someone say that if a car left out in the hot sun the heat will kill fleas, anyway. Never had a flea in my car, so not to worry.

If it is nice out,
For much of the year here, i will leave the trap out on my super safe patio, but lately it is too hot to do that,
so i now recover my cats in bathroom while it is this hot outside. I do cover the trap to carry it through the apt,
and I do vaccuum after carrying trap through house, no problems. Nothing.
Not one flea on my indoor cat, nothing.

so, the target cat AND you
both might feel less stress if the cat is safe and sound in your laundry room for the night before surgery. That sounds like you have come up with a very good plan to protect your cat. This is great!!
I also agree that cats are super vulnerable in traps, how terrifying for them to be outdoors in the heat, rain and thunder storms, snakes, rats,(some florida rats can get bigger than cats!) wandering dogs or whatever creatures might come by to torture the cat and mess with the trap., just scarey creatures of all kinds in the night. Or worse, human pranksters who hate cats.
and some cats could thrash all night long and injure themselves in a fear frenzy.
so this is Wonderful that you have been able to find a way to protect your furry friends the night before surgery. Well done!
GOOD ON YOU!!! Keep us posted! You are doing great!

so......... K katsup92
who did you trap first?

Jcatbird said:

There is a process to socializing but many here can guide you through that.

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Unfortunately, I am pretty committed to not having cats in my home after my current kitty, Jo, moves on. I was tested for allergies twice before I got cats and had no cat allergy. I adopted 2 cats at the same time, fell in love, they became part of my family, and THEN I became massively allergic to cats. I'm currently on 4 allergy meds a day and I've lost my sense of smell due to having a kitty in my home. Now I LOVE my cats and I'm so glad I adopted them, but I would really like to be able to smell again sometime in my life and with the strays living around here I can still help some cats. This whole explanation was really for me to say, I can't adopt him even though he's a lovey dovey cat and I think he does want to live inside. But I think, if it's possible, finding a forever home for him with someone else would give him a better overall quality of life than he would get by continuing to be a stray- even though I will miss him dearly. Does that make sense?

Feral Mom said:

so......... K katsup92
who did you trap first?

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None yet! The appointment isn't until 8/25 and I don't even have a trap yet, I haven't even heard from anyone from the TNR group about getting a trap, it might be too far from the appointment?

Yes - cats just don't work well with timelines, unfortunately this TNR group will cancel your appointment if you don't call and have the cat trapped by noon the day before the appointment. Luckily it's on a weekend so my time is much more flexible.

Ps. Sorry I've been gone for a few days, I wasn't getting any emails about the responses so I thought the thread was dead.

Not sure if you are in a small town or a large town, but midsize towns or bigger often have multiple tnvr groups, feral cat helper groups, etc.
Might want to see if there is other group to provide trap ? not sure.

Good luck!

movinintime said:

FeralMom, FANTASTIC effort & post! Luv your Tuxie in our pic too, as we have a 11-12 girl Tuxie since 2009. I too need to trap a savvy, smart Black tom feral & he is smart! Should be a challenge & wish me luck as by Halloween I may get him!LOL

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Furballsmom said:

See, how right you were

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Buffster7 said:

Quick question:
At what time should I try to lock him in my garage? As in - after the sun goes down? At what time do cats get "prowly"? Does it matter? I can't decide whether to lock him in the garage overnight - will he be so freaked out in the morning that he no longer trusts me, and then I won't be able to get him in the trap? Will he know how to use a litterbox, or will he pee and poop all over my garage? Would it be better to trap him before bed, then put him in the garage overnight, or will that be more traumatizing than anything? Suggestions?

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katsup92 said:

gh he's a lovey dovey cat and I think he does want to live inside. But I think, if it's possible, finding a forever home for him with someone else would give him a better overall quality of life than he would get by continuing to be a stray- even though I will miss him dearly.

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oh i see,
that is tough thing to have to cope with...
so, will you foster the cat until an adopter comes along, or bring cat to humane society or what is the plan?

thank you for all you are doing to help cats...

Feral Mom said:

Not sure if you are in a small town or a large town, but midsize towns or bigger often have multiple tnvr groups, feral cat helper groups, etc.
Might want to see if there is other group to provide trap ? not sure.

Good luck!

oh i see,
that is tough thing to have to cope with...
so, will you foster the cat until an adopter comes along, or bring cat to humane society or what is the plan?

thank you for all you are doing to help cats...

Click to expand...

I'll have to check for other TNVR groups - I'm in Orlando, so there should be multiple options. Although I have reached out to other groups and they all point me back to the one I have the appointment with. My HOA may have a trap, I should reach out and see if it's available.

I'm not sure - I don't want to put him in a situation where he might be put down. There are some groups here that help with adoption, but I don't know how they manage strays. I can't bring him into my house.

Well, tomorrow is trapping day, trapping morning really.

The TNR group did not have a trap. I have bronchitis and I am supposed to be taking it easy. I bought a trap that I could get delivered asap on Amazon. It's probably not an ideal trap, but if I can get one of the two in there, I'm going to call it a win.

I'm pretty nervous. I also feel kind of crappy, but I know this is an important thing to at least try to do. So I'm going to try, but I'm definitely not as prepared as I would like to be.

The trap is outside now, with both doors down, but near where I feed Khan daily. I'm actually leaning towards Mister Meowgi right now just because I think he might be more calm when I have him in the house. I have to change where he'll stay - because the trap is too big for the laundry room. Right now, planning for the master bathroom - although it's unfortunately close to Jo's litter box. I'm concerned I'm going to throw her off and that's stressful as well.

Fingers crossed. This has to be done by noon tomorrow in order for my appointment to not be canceled.

I was able to trap Khan, despite the trap only being out there for the previous feeding (forgetting I was supposed to skip the feeding previous to trapping.) He walked right in and I closed the door. I'm sure I've destroyed the good will I built up with him, however, his overall life will be better once he is neutered, even if he never likes me again.

And in a total moment of 'the dog caught the mail truck' I am in a full on, "now what" state. I have Khan in the laundry room - I was able to wedge the trap in there. I have him in the trap, with a sheet over him and a tarp under him. I'm pretty sure I screwed up though - I gave him a full can of food and now I'm pretty sure it'll just be all over him I did put some newspaper down. I had pee pads, but they have migrated to who knows where.

Wondering - should I put cardboard under/over the tarp? Do I try to get him some water (how??) Do I spend time with him? I have the fan on in the laundry room for some white noise, but I'm assuming the neighbors will complain at some point about the racket he is making.

Any advice for a first time trapper who's in between trapping time and appointment time would be much appreciated. Thank you!

Yes, he should have water. Just put a small bowl into the trap, very carefully and very quickly lifting the door. He should be so scared he won't try to make a break for it, but be ready to slam it closed if he's braver than that.

You can cover the trap with a blanket or cardboard. I wouldn't spend time with him at this point. When is the appointment?