Question Of The Day, Wednesday, July 31, 2019

What's your favorite odd-ball thing about the English language?


For me, it's...why do we park in driveways, and drive on parkways....

I'd have to say spelling and pronunciation, something that always drove my German students crazy. Why don't "though", "through", "cough", etc., rhyme? If the "general rule" is " 'i' before 'e', except after 'c', how can you have "weird neighbors"?

I know some people consider it oddball (or at least annoying), but I love that there are so many synonyms. I just love having so many words to choose from-it's wonderful, marvelous, stupendous . . . heck, it's just plain cool.

"I before E except after C" except that's total crap. What a dumb saying.

The rest of the saying is: ....or when sounded as A as in neighbor or weigh. For me, it is all the homonyms, like led and lead, for example.

Yes, the homonyms get me too. Die and dye, heir and hair, bawled and bald. The one that absolutely drives me crazy is heteronyms, bark like a dog, bark on a tree, etc. One I have actually asked people about is if you call the top of your house the 'roof', why don't you pronounce your foot as 'fooot'?

jcat said:

I'd have to say spelling and pronunciation,

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That being said, I love our quirky language. Capeesh?

Pronunciation. This contains a couple of swear words.

Talien said:

"I before E except after C" except that's total crap. What a dumb saying.

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Science disproves this saying. Literally . And I always like to say "we should ask Keith and Sheila Zweifel about that", lol.

But seriously, yes, someone did a count and there are just as many words that have e before i and it's not pronounced ay. So I don't even know how that saying became popular.

English is hard, really really hard. Just try to explain some English words to non-English-speakers. There's a Dr Seuss collection called "The Tough Coughs as he Ploughs the Dough" (of course, Americans don't spell plow like that anymore, but still). That line explains how hard English is in one sentence.

Since I'm teaching my kids to read, spell and write I think I find those things a lot less amusing!

I have a love-hate relationship with language evolution and semantic changes. I hate it because it changes how we understand older texts, and I love it because it can be fun to learn.

"Apron" is not the right word for that thing you wear when you bake. It is "napron." It changed because people thought it was an apron instead of a napron. "Awful" and "awesome" used to be synonyms. Any usage of either word before the early to mid 19th century should be read to mean "respectful fear." "Egregious" used to mean "distinguished" and was a compliment. That changed in the 16th century. In Chaucer's day, "girl" meant a young child of either sex. So, if you are reading "The Canterbury Tales" and he references "girls," remember that it means boys and girls in today's language.

It is even worse when the words have been translated from a foreign language--especially an ancient/old version of the language--because the words tend to not resemble anything that they once meant. Translating does not always capture or retain the meaning of the word.

I find pejoration and amelioration (how words change from negative to positive and vice versa) fascinating as a linguistics student. I remember reading that the word "silly" used to mean "happy; fortunate" in Old English, though obviously now means foolish. Hierarchy also used to originally refer to a host of angels in the Bible, though now refers to all sorts of negative positions in power.

"Bad" words, which is probably more a social thing than a language thing. I don't understand why poop & feces are OK but sh*t isn't - it all means the same thing. And sex, intercourse, f*ck. Donkey, mule, booty, butt, bottom, a*s.

amysuen said:

"Bad" words, which is probably more a social thing than a language thing. I don't understand why poop & feces are OK but sh*t isn't - it all means the same thing. And sex, intercourse, f*ck. Donkey, mule, booty, butt, bottom, a*s.

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My theory on this, and what I've always taught my son is : If you're using it in the context for which it was meant, then it isn't a curse word. It's only if you use it in a derogitory way.

My problem is that English rules keep changing. Years ago, when I was in school, comma's were used often. ex.. This, however, is a common problem.

Now, commas aren't used between certain words, or even much at all. But, I will still use them.

kashmir64 said:

Now, commas aren't used between certain words, or even much at all. But, I will still use them.

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Ditto!

NY cat man said:

For me, it is all the homonyms, like led and lead, for example.

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Exactly!
Even though I know the difference between two words that are pronounced the same but spelled differently it is definitely odd, e.g. blew, blue - week, weak - son, sun - meat, meet or sew, so.

Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.

Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo - Wikipedia

I never knew English had so many homonyms until the Internet came around. They appeared everywhere as a misspelling.

Binge-watching The Last Kingdom I was taken with the use of "ethel," which seems to precede so many names, like Ethelred, Ethelwod, or general ethelings. Turns out it means noble and was similar to saying "Lord Red." Anyone descended from royalty had a name preceded by "ethel." Some king in the Middle Ages put a stop to it and decreed it could only be used by direct descendents of the king.

I loved the course I took in college on the history of the English language. The reason there are so many words that mean the same thing with different connotations like royal, kingly, and regal, is because England was invaded by so many foreigners and absorbed their languages.

The comma has not gone away. The Chicago Manual of Style, which is used by publishing houses keeps it sacrosanct, while other style manuals for science and newspapers have done away with it in some instances. Check this out the next time you read a book.

My favorite word in English is the word cleave. It has two meanings, both of them the opposite of the other: to stick together and split apart.

DreamerRose said:

The comma has not gone away. The Chicago Manual of Style, which is used by publishing houses keeps it sacrosanct, while other style manuals for science and newspapers have done away with it in some instances. Check this out the next time you read a book.

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When my son was a junior in high school, I was talking with his English teacher. She told me that the rules for commas have changed and that she is to teach the limited comma rule.

Am I allowed to mention some confusing things about American English? I really don't get 'off of' (can anyone explain that?) and I've noticed a lot of people say 'I could care less' which is the opposite of the actual saying 'I couldn't care less'. Also, when I started here I couldn't work out why all these people shared rooms with their friends and their cats and heaven knows what else until I realised they were talking about what we call 'housemates'.

I'm sure there are many odd things that Australians say, by the way.

'Get off' pretty much means that it doesn't thrill them. For example, "I don't get off on coffee". This would mean that they really don't like or enjoy coffee.
As far as "I could care less", you are exactly correct. It should be "I couldn't care less".

mani said:

until I realised they were talking about what we call 'housemates'.

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We call them roommates.

ETA: However, if someone says " Coffee gets me off", then they mean they love it.
Personally, I never use that phrase.