Debating What To Do With One Of My Cats: Leash, Outside/inside Or Strictly Inside

cabris

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
3
Purraise
3
Hi,
I have two cats respectively 2 years old and 1 year old. I just moved to Cambridge MA from NYC. This means a bigger apartment and a quieter street. My two years old cat has always tried to escape and see the big outside world. So I decided to leash train her. She absolutely adores going outside! Will come running whenever I have the harness in my hands. She even wants to walk when it's raining! But as soon as we go outside she becomes very hard to deal with. Whenever I frustrate her: like not letting her exploring someone else garden and everytime I move to bring back inside she starts growling, hissing and swating at me . Today the worse almost happen: she succeeded to escape from her harness and ran under a door to someone else garden. By calling her I was able to bring her back to my side of the fence and ran home with her. This can't continue, something bad will hapen. But I feel horrible of depriving her of something that she clearly craves. She is a cat. She is meant to feel grass under her feet, hear birds singing, hunting insects ect.. I know all the risks that come with having an outdoor/indoor cat. But I am still thinking about it. There are some increasing risks I know but she would be happy. After all there is some higher risk for all of us and we still go outside. I would prefer being able to walk her on a leash. But I have no idea how to modify her behavior and I am afraid of one day losing her.

Please give me your honest opinions.
 

ArtNJ

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jun 1, 2017
Messages
5,485
Purraise
6,957
The "never" people can say their piece, but you haven't given the "sometimes" people like me enough info to help.

Cars: Cambridge normally has a lot of traffic. I have no idea how far cats normally roam, but I've seen mine at least 1000 feet away, and they have some wooded area to entertain them closer by. Where are you in relation to roads with fast moving cars?

Predators: I'm guessing this may not be a huge deal in Cambridge

Other Cats: This one could be a bigger deal than you think. Sure they aren't likely to kill your cat, but hurt it badly enough to make you feel terrible and require expensive vet care? That isn't uncommon at all. Your cats willingness to fight vs flee plays a big role in the likelyhood of injuries

Scum: This may not be a big risk % wise, but they can be fatal. Teens with air rifles, adults laying out poison for some other critter, whatever. Your in Cambridge, not exactly hunting central lol but even still its something to think about.

That is the variable part of the risk calculation. There are a few other parts of the risk calculation that are more or less standard like the cat getting lost, or taken in by someone else, maybe after the collar comes off. Getting a good collar and chipping helps with that some, but they are still risks. As far as the benefits, I don't feel it would be appropriate to disparage your "cats should enjoy nature" reasoning even if I don't particularly agree with it, so I'll let that one go. You are the one that needs to add it all up and make the calculation weighing it all vs. just getting a better quality collar/harness rig (there are definitely people here that can advise on that.)
 
Last edited:
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3

cabris

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
3
Purraise
3
Thank you for your answer. I am really unsure what to do. I am going to take a few days to weight everything. I was raised a country where everyone let's their cat out. And I do feel that they are happier. I give my cats plenty of play time, climbing opportunities ect.. But it's not the same thing as outside. They are still leaving in a very artificial environment. The harness I use is the kitty holster. she tried to back out a few times but never succeeded before (and I always stoppped her). I would prefer to let her on walks with a leash but she gets very agressive with me. Do you have any idea how to migitate this?
Best
 

ArtNJ

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jun 1, 2017
Messages
5,485
Purraise
6,957
I don't personally have experience with a cat getting seriously hostile to me because I am imposing limits of some kind, no. Oh, I've been growled at a bit, but I've never thought that any of my cats were serious about it. The growls I've had were just verbal expressions of displeasure, with maybe an occasional "stop it" swipe or rather light bite, mostly if doing something like rubbing a belly for a cat that doesn't like that. If I get this in a context where I do need to enforce something for safety or to avoid home destruction, I mostly just ignore these verbal expressions and get a bit louder with my "no!" or add a foot stomp or something. I haven't had a cat that I thought was communicating "I'm going to seriously tear into ya if you don't let me do my thing." Not saying you have that either; hopefully you don't, because that can be a problem.
 
Last edited:

Hellenww

TCS Member
Super Cat
Joined
Mar 5, 2018
Messages
1,036
Purraise
1,533
Location
South Jersey, USA
A few thoughts:

A cat can be get used to being an exclusively indoor cat. She would need a lot of play time if you go that route.

I'm not sure there is an inescapable harness. I looked at some dog harnesses. The one that looked the most promising only goes down to medium. Would it be safe for a kitty to wear a collar as well as the harness and use a leash meant for multiple dogs with a clip on both the harness and collar? A harness with a lift handle on the back sounds like it would be helpful with an argumentative cat. Hopefully someone with harness experience will have some suggestions on specific harnesses.

Do you have a safe park near your apt? Transport kitty to the park in a pet stroller then allow to leash walk in the park. Some cats can undo zippers so I'd have a clip on the zippers so they can't be opened. Most strollers have a clip inside to attach to a harness.
 

Suru

TCS Member
Adult Cat
Joined
Nov 2, 2018
Messages
246
Purraise
311
I just recently accepted the idea that it's okay for my cat to be an outside/inside cat. He's just so much happier in general. I know there will be people who say "how can you tell? where's the scientific proof?", but it's not about that, I just can through an inexplicable connection with my feline.

I used to be so paranoid about letting him out. He was originally a barn kitten and absolutely thrived in nature. Keep him inside all the time just didn't seem right. Fortunately though, I'm pretty much in the country side. It's not super rural, but there's enough nature around that we don't really know what our neighbors are doing. Though one neighbor mistakenly thought my cat was a stray, but now that's been ironed out... thank goodness.

I think only you can tell what is best for you kitty. Honestly there are people out there who live to their fullest in the face of risks and danger. I think cats are not all that different from people. Every cat is an individual, I know scaredy cats who are just content to sleep and never step outside the door. I'm an advocate for quality of life over lifespan. If someone asked me whether I would stay indoors forever and live till 200 or have the freedom to do whatever I want and die at 50, I would pick the latter...
 

Maria Bayote

Mama of 4 Cats, 4 Dogs , 2 Budgies & 2 Humans
Top Cat
Joined
Jan 15, 2018
Messages
4,171
Purraise
12,686
There is a body harness that I bought for one of my cats back home (XS Size) which fits my Pepsi to a T. Let me try to check what the brand is.

What we also do is put a secondary collar / leash when getting out for walks with the dogs. I am always afraid that when he escapes he would be crushed by a speeding car or something. For my other 3 cats with me now they are content inside the apartment. There was a time when there was a lot of "complaints" and attempts to escape, but my husband build small catios on our windows for them to stay and watch the movements outside. I am more into the "strictly indoor" policy.

The best solution is build a big catio if possible in your backyard, or smaller ones on windows.

Hang in there.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9

cabris

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
3
Purraise
3
Hi,
Thank you very much for all your answers. Sorry for the delay.
No I can't build a catio. I am renting my apartment.
Maria Bayote Maria Bayote I am very interested to know what harness you use! How long do you walk your cat for?
I am still unsure what I should do. The second collar/leash seems a good idea. I was also thinking of buying a gps collar so that in case she escapes I could find her again.
I would eventually like them to be indoor/outdoors. But I feel like my setup is not the right one yet and I should wait to be in an even quieter place. It's just hard to see her crave the outdoors so much and not allowing her to go. I would go crazy if confined to such an artificial environment all my life.
 

Maria Bayote

Mama of 4 Cats, 4 Dogs , 2 Budgies & 2 Humans
Top Cat
Joined
Jan 15, 2018
Messages
4,171
Purraise
12,686
Actually the one I bought is for dogs but they have an XS size that fits my Pepsi well and so far she has not managed to escape yet. Here it is. But I bought it from here, not sure if available there at your area. And We also put a secondary collar with leash when out for walking so just in case there is a backup.
D0D89F6A-ABDE-4C1C-AA7A-9EBABCA47EC8.png
 

Lisannez

TCS Member
Adult Cat
Joined
Aug 1, 2018
Messages
234
Purraise
212
We are actually going through something similar right now with our Tuxie. We just moved from a condo to a home, and we have two decks (gated) and a small yard. The issue we are having is with other people's free roaming cats coming into our yard, trying to get onto our decks at my cat, and marking (peeing) on our cars. We decided it just was not safe for her to go out alone, and we needed to sit there with her. We do put her on a harness (its exactly like the one posted above) and walk her and she's great with that. We can give her maybe 20-30 minutes outside time a day, and we were doing that, where we either go out with her on our deck, or walk her. We both work, and the temps in DC have been pushing 100, so it's not fun being out there. But we dedicated 20-30 minutes everyday no matter what. The problem being of course that it is NEVER enough for her and she has begun to slowly drive us crazy with her incessant meowing and crying. I have never heard this cat cry like this before and she is relentless. She will go from door to door crying, and trying to open it, and this can go on for hours. She has knocked down curtains, and ripped off curtain rods. Any guest that comes she tries to get them to let her out too. She will try to jolt out the door anytime someone enters or leaves. So now we are considering not letting her out at all. Eventually she will forget about it. I am not sure we have a choice.
But she displays the behavior you describe when we try to bring her in. She hisses at us, gets mad, growls, but she won't hurt us. She's just basically telling us she's not happy. We are also going to build a catio but that takes time and I still have concerns that other people's cats will try to get at her in the catio. We do not have "wild" animals to be concerned about. The worst could be a rabid squirrel but that would be a rarity. We want something that will allow her to experience the outdoors but protect her. Our Ragdoll cat has to be forced to go out, and would be perfectly happy inside all day long, they are both the same age. So it varies by the cat.
Count me as one in the camp of not letting cats roam free. I think if the cat can be in a catio or under supervision than some outdoor time is perfect. The problem being of course that MOST cats that want to go outside are not going to be happy with that, and they will slowly drive you insane asking to go out. In my area the reason my cats cannot go outside on their own property is due to other people's free roaming cats, and I don't think that's right. I would not do this to other people's cats and I would not want my cat to be in other's people's yards creating issues. I could get with it more if we lived in a more rural area. Growing up I did and it was common for our cats to run around and play. But in a city where you know all your cats are doing is going into other's yards, and maybe playing in the street, I just don't like the idea. Now we are also trying to do something to keep the free roaming cats out of our yard, which in my mind is their owners job, so just something to consider how your cat free roaming may effect your neighbors. When we were in a condo, the cats were not allowed out of the carrier on property even outside and even in a leash.
 

Lisannez

TCS Member
Adult Cat
Joined
Aug 1, 2018
Messages
234
Purraise
212
A few thoughts:

A cat can be get used to being an exclusively indoor cat. She would need a lot of play time if you go that route.

I'm not sure there is an inescapable harness. I looked at some dog harnesses. The one that looked the most promising only goes down to medium. Would it be safe for a kitty to wear a collar as well as the harness and use a leash meant for multiple dogs with a clip on both the harness and collar? A harness with a lift handle on the back sounds like it would be helpful with an argumentative cat. Hopefully someone with harness experience will have some suggestions on specific harnesses.

Do you have a safe park near your apt? Transport kitty to the park in a pet stroller then allow to leash walk in the park. Some cats can undo zippers so I'd have a clip on the zippers so they can't be opened. Most strollers have a clip inside to attach to a harness.
The problem is though with cats that want to be outdoors this will never be enough. They will constantly want to be let out, to the point they will drive you insane.
 

ArtNJ

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jun 1, 2017
Messages
5,485
Purraise
6,957
The problem is though with cats that want to be outdoors this will never be enough. They will constantly want to be let out, to the point they will drive you insane.
A lot of us have had cats be as annoying as **** over this issue and get over it, fully settling in to indoor life. Including ferals and strays used to the outdoors. Not saying that ALL cats will settle in, but there is no reason to assume you have a cat that won't until you put the effort in.
 

Lisannez

TCS Member
Adult Cat
Joined
Aug 1, 2018
Messages
234
Purraise
212
A lot of us have had cats be as annoying as **** over this issue and get over it, fully settling in to indoor life. Including ferals and strays used to the outdoors. Not saying that ALL cats will settle in, but there is no reason to assume you have a cat that won't until you put the effort in.
I agree with you. What I meant is that for the majority of cats that want to be outside (or at least ours) it's all or nothing. If we let her outside a little bit then she will be annoying as crap until we let her out again. If we just don't let her out at all, she will be annoying for awhile but eventually she will settle in and get over it. So for the OP who wants to let her cat out potentially under limited circumstances, that may not work.
 

ArtNJ

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jun 1, 2017
Messages
5,485
Purraise
6,957
I agree with you. What I meant is that for the majority of cats that want to be outside (or at least ours) it's all or nothing. If we let her outside a little bit then she will be annoying as crap until we let her out again. If we just don't let her out at all, she will be annoying for awhile but eventually she will settle in and get over it. So for the OP who wants to let her cat out potentially under limited circumstances, that may not work.
Oh absolutely. Walking a cat on a leash sounds lovely, but in addition to the other issues, I very much fear the "give a cat an inch, they will drive you crazy for a mile" thing. Sure, if you are a good trainer and can be perfectly consistent you can possibly get through it, but its just another significant difficulty stacked on top of the others making the whole thing something I personally won't try again.
 

Luc

TCS Member
Young Cat
Joined
Jul 31, 2019
Messages
47
Purraise
44
There are some really good cat holsters one of them is called kitty holster and your cat won't be able to escape from it.

Try to go out when your cat is hungry add a clicker and treats and you can gradually try to modify your cat behavior by making your walking a positive experience.

As long as you are alert of your surroundings like other people with dogs approaching, cars , noises etc and you are ready to pick up your cat right away in case it needs protection going out with your cat will be great.
 

Dacatchair

TCS Member
Adult Cat
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
222
Purraise
252
Risks vary a lot from place to place and also with the personality of the cat. I agreed with the general idea behind ArtNJ post suggesting you evaluate the local risks. I would add to that and suggest before deciding to allow your cat out, spend some time every day outside exploring the neighbourhood with your cat on a leash. If you do this for a few months, you will see what problems your cat might run into, and how they cope.

I don't agree that every area has unacceptable risks, but spending hundreds of hours with my cat on a leash did allow me to discover a few I had not considered.

This leash time also provides them with valuable experience which I believe can help them stay safe if they ever are allowed out, or get out accidentally...

I am also having problems with a cat wanting out, and he has always been an indoor only cat with access to the outdoors via enclosures and leash walks. He has a really enriched environment, and he still really wants out.
 

silkenpaw

TCS Member
Super Cat
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
1,117
Purraise
1,127
Location
Hollywood, FL, USA
The desire to go out and the risks vary from one cat to another. I had a cat who went outside for years and he died of old age at 20+. Another one who was killed by a car at about 2 years of age (that’s when I stopped letting the cats out.) The one cat was very smart but a sort of scaredy cat, the other was fearless.

I’ve cats who want to outside but then come right back. I have had a cat that put up such wailing when taken outside that I thought the neighbors would call the police :) I had a cat that would go outside only when I did, followed me closely and got lost if I met a neighbor who gave me a ride home in a car; I had to looking for him and he was always back exactly where I had left him.

I had one cat I tried to leash train but whenever I put the harness on him, he would hunch down and stay that way, looking miserable, until I took the harness off. He was an easygoing cat otherwise. Another cat was fine with a harness, though he did try to escape every chance he got. Yet another was fine with a harness but would growl and hiss when I tried to get him to go where he didn’t want to go.

The point is, to recapitulate, the desire to go out and the risks vary by cat, but they are hard to guess in advance. You have to decide what you can tolerate. Good luck with your cat.
 
Top