Sassy - 17yr Old Cat - Appetite Issue (early Ckd)

FeebysOwner

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Glad to hear you are looking for a new vet!!!

I wouldn't worry too much about the hairball - regardless of who threw it up. Do you give Charlie anything for hairballs since he tends to have them more than Sassy? If so, feed some of it to Sassy for a while. If you don't give either of them anything for hairballs, you can give them a dab of butter/margarine from your finger or their paw a couple of times a week.
 
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miguel99nyc

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Glad to hear you are looking for a new vet!!!

I wouldn't worry too much about the hairball - regardless of who threw it up. Do you give Charlie anything for hairballs since he tends to have them more than Sassy? If so, feed some of it to Sassy for a while. If you don't give either of them anything for hairballs, you can give them a dab of butter/margarine from your finger or their paw a couple of times a week.

No I don't give them anything for hairball. I only brought it up since for Charlie, usually after he throws it up, then he feels hungry. Otherwise he would at times do the same, just lick his food or barely eat anythign and walks away. Usually means he has hairball. Also he has I think pancreatitis? The vet's deemed that would cause his appetite to decrease so he's on and off prednisone when its flaring up.

Sassy....well was mix today. I tried giving her instead a Pate kind of food instead her gravy fillets/chunks/bits food, and she ate that just fine this morning, as if she was really into it. She ate three bouts of dry food throughout the day, drank plenty of water, and now come dinner, she ate a little but not too much, didin't finish. It doesn't seem like shes sick...but I don't know if she just wants a change of food? The other problem is while she might like Pate's, I know they have higher count of phosphorus which could make her kidneys worse. Thats why I do my best to stay away from it. but maybe shes getting borded of her same food? beacuse she still asks for food, she still comes into kitchen and meows for food, but just doesn't finish the amount I giver her (which is usually same amount ive always given her in past years).
 

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Also he has I think pancreatitis? The vet's deemed that would cause his appetite to decrease so he's on and off prednisone when its flaring up.
Was Charlie actually tested for pancreatitis - fPLI or SPEC-FPL tests? You might be interested in reading the article (link below) about it and see if the recommended tests (bloodwork, including enzyme levels) have been done by the vet on Charlie.

Inflammation of the Pancreas in Cats | petMD

The other problem is while she might like Pate's, I know they have higher count of phosphorus which could make her kidneys worse. Thats why I do my best to stay away from it. but maybe shes getting borded of her same food? beacuse she still asks for food, she still comes into kitchen and meows for food, but just doesn't finish the amount I giver her (which is usually same amount ive always given her in past years).
There are a number of possible reasons for her eating less - the most simple one is because she is just in that kind of mode. Feeby goes in and out of bouts where she eats less. So, just watch Sassy. If you are worried about her eating too much pate, but would like her to eat more than she is, mix a small amount of it with her other food to see if that helps any.
 

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Well not sure what stage? I attached her blood work over the past two years and everything still in normal range? And per the Tanya website, with her creatine being 2.1 now (was 2.0 while back),still stage 2?
Start her on CoQ10 - 100-200mg capsule powder. Mix it with a little food broth or water to syringe feed her if she's not eating all her food. CoQ10 will lower her creatinine levels.

Coenzyme Q10 supplementation on metabolic profiles of patients with chronic kidney disease
 
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miguel99nyc

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Well I'm hoping to make an appointment asap because I did not like Sassys reaction tonight :(. I was excited again this morning she ate half of that Patte can, she ate so well as if she enjoyed it greatly. Then ate several bouts of dry food throuhgout today, then yet again come tonight, she just licked few bits of her food juice and just sprinted away from her plate and ran off. She gives like this....stare planning which way she will run away from, then does it. It just upsets me she still doing this.

She drank soem water after running away, then wanted food came back to kitchen...i gave her new kind of pate, licked it just bit and again walked quickly away and just sat in middle of living room. Now shes resting.

Im just hoping this new vet can get bottom of this. And I hope her not eating or being this way is not like she's giving up on life :( sure doesnt act sick and she isnt throwing up either.
 
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miguel99nyc

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Alright. So she had some good amount breakfast and middday lunch/snach of some more canned food.

Made her appointment tomorrow evening with a new vet and already sounds like a much better location.

Is it possible...that because shes older as well she's bound to eat less? Just a thought I was thinking of if its similar to humans when they are older? And I wonder if her jaw/mouth gives her problem she seems more interested in the Pate kind of wet food rather then her past favorite fillets/chunks in gravy? But then she eats and chews on dry food fine...so unsure. I'll be asking the new vet the same thing tomorrow as well.
 
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miguel99nyc

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Update - 7.24.19

So I've taken Sassy last evening to her new vet. She was wonderful, though they were so busy it took a while to get checked in, crazy!

So I had hoped Sassy was going to be more calm when this new vet examined her...but she still was growling like crazy and hissing. So the vet used a technician to wrap a towel around her then examined. Pretty professional I'd say compare to my old vet, they just grabbed her freely while vet was feeling her. So it still makes leaves me to wonder why she became so irrate like this? One would think she was in pain or something but when I hold her she doesnt growl or anything so I guess she just doesnt like getting grabbed by vets?

I handed over to vet the past medical records , blood work, etc and she reviewed it. She also believes based on bloodwork, its not her kidneys affecting her despite the calcium and creatine being a point higher then normal. And in fact the one thing that stood out to me is that my old vet diagnosed Sassy with early CKD back in 2017, and wanted her to be on that k/d food since then (which she obviously didnt like). This new vet reviewed it but she didn't really think it was a full on disease based on her urine and bloodwork and that it was just "mild". Plus she said that she wouldnt go crazy on giving her specific foods yet for kidneys as shes still doing well, and most importantly, she said at her age, it's more important she continues to eat rather then to not eat those special diet foods, and that she can eat whatever she likes! complete different from old vet...but then again, whose right? I would like to believe this new vet, but I dont know.

Onto the new vet about Sassy's appetite. She did also suggest utlrasound, but was bit hesitant because of her age and having to sedate her. She said her bloodwork looked fine for the sedation but still cautioned against it. Her records showed that I picked up the Cerenia and Fomatidine and Mirtazapine as well and asked how she doing on those. I said I'd only given her MIrtazapine twice so far and she responded to it well as she ate a lot more, but still made her vocal. She did say that it is the weakest dosage possible but if she isn't reacting to it well by being more vocal, then she said don't give it to her but instead give her the cerenia and fomatidine. She mentioned that if she at times only licks bit if food and walks away (which she does sometimes) then it means shes nauseous and cerenia and fomatidine will definitely help. It's not pills she has to be on forever but she said if its an irritation of stomach or intestinal tract that these medicines would surely help feel better and over time eat since this appetite issue has happened in past and responded well to both cerenia and fomatidine. It's true, January and last year she had the same medication and she felt better after a week and ate like her self. This time around, I held off those medicines incase she got better on her own...but it still might be ailing her as she's been back and forth with her food, eating a lot, eating little, etc. So vet said try those medications I have and if she responds well then good.

While the new vet felt Sassy, she said her intestines felt mildly inflammed? Which might indicate she might have IBD, but she went on with my permission to do Xrays actually of her, and all that came back normal. Nothing looked out of the ordinary she said and all organs looked normal even her kidneys! So she said we can hold off on ultrasound, try the cerenia and fomatidine and see how she responds to it but to be off mirtazapine if she still vocal. Her not feeling nausea will allow her to eat well she believes, I believe that too.

And again, last night and this morning, she ate quite well as if nothing was wrong with her so...guess it will be like this for some time. Maybe even go normal once I try those two medications. But I definitely feel confident in this vet for sure.
 

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cats react badly to vets because vets are strangers to them. Anyone bigger, stronger and attacking (to the cat the vet is attacking them by restraining them and by poking them) is a threat. Remember, cats are prey animals. They know there are other animals out there that want to eat them. Odds are your vet eats meat and your cat can smell the vet is a carnavoir. Definately, your vet has handled other animals the day your cat sees them and some of those animals are terrified, dying or dead. The scent remains. You can't smell it but your cat can.

Put yourself in your cat's place. You have no idea what's going on. The people you trust had just taken you to a place that reeks of fear, illness, pain and death. You're going to be freaked and fighting for your life.
 

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And I wonder if her jaw/mouth gives her problem she seems more interested in the Pate kind of wet food rather then her past favorite fillets/chunks in gravy? But then she eats and chews on dry food fine...so unsure.
Hima does this kind of. She's 3-5 years old now (we are not sure). When she was a stray in my yard I was giving her chunks in gravy kind of wet food. She usually ate them but looking back I think it was only because she wasn't going to find any other food. She also ALWAYS panicked if any of the pieces stuck in her tooth even for seconds and stopped eating altogether. She has had gum/teeth issues and I have a hunch that reaction was also about that. Maybe also her preference of not wanting to eat from bowls. She likes plates more. She gets whisker stress very quickly.

Since I officially adopted her and she knows there are other food options, she almost only licks the gravy of wet foods and only eats pate/mousse texture for wet food. But she does eat her dry food. Then again her dry food is on the softer side for a dry food. Anyway, I think it's the "getting stuck on tooth" part of meat chunks of gravy food some cats dislike/feel uncomfortable with. I also suspect maybe they touch their gums but dry food, if the kibble is small enough, do not make it up to gums and stay down on the tooth just to cut them in half.
 

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When you have a bad tooth or sensitive gums food getting stuck on them hurts.
 
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miguel99nyc

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Hello Everyone!

I know it's been a while, went on vacation end of July/1st week of August and came back now and continue to monitor my cat Sassy and her eating habits.

So while away on trip, though I was concerned initially that she wouldn't eat at all while away but after calling into my grandma who accompanied my cats, she told us she was eating well. Kinda found it hard to believe considering that last day before I left she didn't really want ot eat at all...but maybe she was sad and felt that I was going to be away? I was really sad leaving her, but anyway I heard that she ate well while I was away. I returned back on August 5th.

Now 11 days later, you know to be honest, it's been a steady hold for Sassy...as she would eat I guess her NEW normal amount which is still slightly less then she used to before months ago...but I figured thats all she wants to eat. Been drinking water just fine, acting completely normal, no throwing up at all, etc. Been coming out to eat when its time, and such. Been ok so far. And really, I had just tried giving her Cerenia once I think last week as she just licked her food last week once and walked away again, thinking she was nausous. I open her mouth to pill her (as she wont eat with food) but im guessing this Cerenia has some bad taste compared to Mirtazapine, she would feel and spit it right out despite me keeping her mouth closed and tilted up as done in Youtube videos. She managed to have some because it kinda melts in her mouth a bit? so I let her take in what she could and not overdosing her or trying another pill. She seemed fine after and resumed her regular "new"amount of eating again.

Now today, similarly it had happened again. Though I had thought it was beacuse my other cat threw up before their breakfast time near the kitchen area where they eat, so I cleaned it up well first because I know that would bother her. Maybe she still sensed it but when I gave her the food, she ate...few bits few licks...then put on the side some dry food...literally just had a kibble or two then she did that stare again, looks quickly in a direction as if she gets scared? And walks quickly again away. *sigh* frustrates me when she does that. So now that was this morning, thinking ok, she will definitely eat later if she was nausous? So...i tried giving her some dry food middday and...you know she still comes to kitchen wanting to eat, she ate very little, few bits...but walked away didnt finish. So i said ok, for sure she will eat dinner beacuse she basically didnt much at all the whole day since last night. So I waited for dinner now, and she was crying meowing at me like always, petting me for food and all. Seemed like her good ol self. I try giving her food, and she ate...a pinch more maybe? Few bits, but as soon as I placed some dry food again like i always do to mix with wet food, again, she looks up and just walked away quickly and did not want to finish. So now she has done it all day. Ive just given her Cerenia, or the best I coudl to give the pill as she kept spitting it out...but we will see if it helps....otherwise tomorrow morning first thing Im giving her mirtazapine....

Anyone still think this can be anything serious? Or really is an ultrasound needed? I took her to new vet and all and she recommended either stick with cerenia nad famotidine for now on and off see how she responds...if not she would need ultrasound. But shes old and still afraid of her kidneys to go under that sedation since shes aggressive at vet. But this appetite issue been ongoing since June that I've thought it was her new norm..and for most past her NEW norm has been steady for past weeks. If any of you got any more further thoughts, I would really really appreciate as I hate her seeing like this :( .
 
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miguel99nyc

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I am glad you like the new vet and feel confident with her!

Good luck with the Cerenia and Fomatidine!!
Heyy hope all is well, not sure if you get notifications if I post in general and not a reply but I just made a post again about Sassy and how her appetite acted up today and how its been holding steady for past weeks.

If you have any insights then I'd appreciate it!
 
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miguel99nyc

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Another update as of this morning - 8/17/19

So despite trying to think positive and thinking as in the past, this not eating for a day or eat very little for a day would be resolved next day, but this time - no.

Now its been yesterday morning, last night and now this morning where she would just lick her food, freeze for a moment and sprint away from her plate. She did eat quite a bit more dry food last night before going sleep, thinking oh maybe the cerenia is helping? So I was sure this mornign she'd be fine...but no. Just barely gave the food few licks and ran away. So I had no choice but now I gave her the MIrtzapine - which obviously...should work, but this isnt the right way to be going about it. Plus, again the side effects which I hate the most!

So Ill be trying to set up an appointment for ultrasound...but again, I'm just afraid of her age, her kidneys and this whole sedation thing that her body may not respond well (which I asked both vets I took her and told me that there are some risks...which i dont like). But its like, if I do ultrasound and all comes back normal, then what?

Or if it doesnt come normal, what else could it possible be that lasted this long since basically June?
 

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It could be that only one dose of cerenia is not enough to calm her tummy. She may need it for 2 or 3 days in a row to keep her feeling better and eating.
When you pill her try to ensure that the pill gets put past the "hump" of the tongue at the back. NOT down the throat, just past the hump. At that spot, you won't have to worry about her tasting the pill as much and it makes it very difficult for her to spit it back up. I always chase a pill with a few drops of water in a syringe to force mine to swallow and it also ensures that it doesn't stay stuck in the throat to dissolve. Just put the tip of the syringe under the cheek and slowly depress the plunger. She should instinctively swallow a few times.

Do they need to simply sedate her or will they have to give her anesthesia to put her under. The bigger danger with older cats and those with health concerns is the anesthesia, so I wouldn't worry as much if they are only going to sedate her. At least that is my understanding of sedation/anesthesia from when my health compromised boys were sick.
 
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miguel99nyc

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It could be that only one dose of cerenia is not enough to calm her tummy. She may need it for 2 or 3 days in a row to keep her feeling better and eating.
When you pill her try to ensure that the pill gets put past the "hump" of the tongue at the back. NOT down the throat, just past the hump. At that spot, you won't have to worry about her tasting the pill as much and it makes it very difficult for her to spit it back up. I always chase a pill with a few drops of water in a syringe to force mine to swallow and it also ensures that it doesn't stay stuck in the throat to dissolve. Just put the tip of the syringe under the cheek and slowly depress the plunger. She should instinctively swallow a few times.

Do they need to simply sedate her or will they have to give her anesthesia to put her under. The bigger danger with older cats and those with health concerns is the anesthesia, so I wouldn't worry as much if they are only going to sedate her. At least that is my understanding of sedation/anesthesia from when my health compromised boys were sick.
Right, I try to stay away from pills as I think its just hurting them more then actually helping? But maybe your right, she needs to be on it for few days to help her feel better? Though she hasnt been throwing up...which is part of what Cerenia is for. But with her, is it really nasuea where she would still act hungry, but just give few licks or eat few bits and want to like run away from her plate? Almost seems like a neurological issue.

As for the pill, I had sworn she swallowed the mirtazapine. I JUST saw she somehow must have held it in mouth and spit it out like minutes after. I thought she had swallowed it but just found it on the floor. I was wondering why the mirtazapine was not working yet, but she did manage to go out eat bit more from her plate without this mirtazapine. So Ill have to try again later as shes sleeping now. But do you think she has to be on this Cerenia and/or mirtazapine forever? Again mirtazapine shes at the lowest dosage of 1mg possible but still makes her quite vocal but just for a day but I feel as I mentioned before this mirtzapine is not safe for her to be on for life or I find it as a cheating method. I havent given her fomatidine yet since getting the medication weeks ago, maybe that will help too?


And for sedation, I think they said would be lightly only as she doesnt have to be fully asleep? But vet still mentioned there are some risks too but that part is scary. I rather gamble at casinos honestly to lose money then to gamble with my cats life you know? Especially since shes 17 and has kidney issues, though the latest bloodwork in July per this newer vet also said she just has mild case and isn't as severe or high enough to effect her appetite.
 

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But do you think she has to be on this Cerenia and/or mirtazapine forever? Again mirtazapine shes at the lowest dosage of 1mg possible but still makes her quite vocal but just for a day but I feel as I mentioned before this mirtzapine is not safe for her to be on for life or I find it as a cheating method. I havent given her fomatidine yet since getting the medication weeks ago, maybe that will help too?
What was the medication schedule your vet recommended when she's not eating? I might be missing/forgetting some info from other posts, but I think I remember you saying that your vet recommends the cerenia and famotidine but says to stop with the mirtazipine??? What did she say about how often, how much and how many days of each, to give of the cerenia and famotidine? Is there a reason why you have not given her the famotidine even thought the vet prescribed it? Did the vet say to just give it "as needed"? If so, what does "as needed" mean.

As for being on it for life, I have NO idea, it depends on what's wrong, and it may take the ultrasound to know what's happening in her tummy.
 

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The thing about the meds - if they work to make her feel better, help her to eat better - and, therefore stay healthier, and don't negatively affect any of her current health issues - why would you care if she has to be on them for life? You might also talk to the vet about getting some/all of the meds compounded in a manner that make it easier to give to Sassy. Compounding can be something as simple as flavoring to entice/encourage taking the meds to trans-dermal gels that are absorbed through the skin, rather than orally ingested. Of course they would be more expensive, just so you know.

I am sure I have lost some of the information that I once knew from your previous posts in this thread (sorry), but making her feel better while other testing/options are being studied is the key. Helping her quality of life through this process is NOT cheating. To deny her things that help her is cheating - her.

I don't know how extensive the ultrasound is due to be, but Feeby has had an ultrasound twice over the years, and she was not sedated for either, much less anesthetized. It was her bladder the vet was looking at, so perhaps that is a much quicker and easier process than what Sassy is expected to undergo.

If she can tolerate canned chicken in water (human), you can mix that with her other foods to help encourage her to eat. I am doing that presently with Feeby, and it is helping her to want to eat better. Or - and, I think I mentioned it before - baby food meats with no seasonings.
 
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miguel99nyc

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What was the medication schedule your vet recommended when she's not eating? I might be missing/forgetting some info from other posts, but I think I remember you saying that your vet recommends the cerenia and famotidine but says to stop with the mirtazipine??? What did she say about how often, how much and how many days of each, to give of the cerenia and famotidine? Is there a reason why you have not given her the famotidine even thought the vet prescribed it? Did the vet say to just give it "as needed"? If so, what does "as needed" mean.

As for being on it for life, I have NO idea, it depends on what's wrong, and it may take the ultrasound to know what's happening in her tummy.

Ok for the meds, this 2nd opinion vet said to try out the meds our first main vet prescribed. Which was 4mg cerenia once a day, and Famotidine once a day. But this new vet she said I should try it but only give it to her as needed since her appetite was only on and off every few days or so. But to not give her mirtazapine since she wasn't doing well, well she ate but made her restless and vocal - which was 1 mg twice a week. I want to try giving her famotidine once she takes in food but once she feels it I know she will stop eating and spit it out. So I gotta do that open mouth manually technique twice...but for wathever reason the Cerneia she spits it right out no matter how hard i try to keep her mouth closed. Yeah Im considering the ultrasound but again her organs and being an old cat, the doctor will call me tomorrrow so I can ask her that again see what she thinks if Sassy can go through with it or not. But say the famotidine and cerenia work, I mean i dont know what could be causing her to not eat/or get nausea, but not throw up, stilll drink water fine, and just give few looks at her food and walk away. It's as if shes afraid to eat once shes about to eat. But then eats dry food ok. Strange.
 
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miguel99nyc

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The thing about the meds - if they work to make her feel better, help her to eat better - and, therefore stay healthier, and don't negatively affect any of her current health issues - why would you care if she has to be on them for life? You might also talk to the vet about getting some/all of the meds compounded in a manner that make it easier to give to Sassy. Compounding can be something as simple as flavoring to entice/encourage taking the meds to trans-dermal gels that are absorbed through the skin, rather than orally ingested. Of course they would be more expensive, just so you know.

I am sure I have lost some of the information that I once knew from your previous posts in this thread (sorry), but making her feel better while other testing/options are being studied is the key. Helping her quality of life through this process is NOT cheating. To deny her things that help her is cheating - her.

I don't know how extensive the ultrasound is due to be, but Feeby has had an ultrasound twice over the years, and she was not sedated for either, much less anesthetized. It was her bladder the vet was looking at, so perhaps that is a much quicker and easier process than what Sassy is expected to undergo.

If she can tolerate canned chicken in water (human), you can mix that with her other foods to help encourage her to eat. I am doing that presently with Feeby, and it is helping her to want to eat better. Or - and, I think I mentioned it before - baby food meats with no seasonings.
Hello,

Ive tried tbe baby food and human chicken but she does not like it at all.

Well I think what I will try is now that I just got mirtazapine in Sassy an hour ago, she just ate like crazy again but, obviously is from mirtazapine. Tonight Ill mix with food her Famotidine since she will be hungry too. But to your point about the meds...lets say in mirtazapine, how's that really making her feel better? I guess scientifically I can't fathom it beacuse to me its just stimulating her brain to eat, sorta like forcing her to eat regardless whats going on inside. Right? True, something may be ailing her inside if its lasting this long, but how could the mirtazapine lets say, be so powerful that she completely disregards her illness whatever it may be, and just eats on as if shes a new born kitten? Thought as mentioned before, I still dislike how she cries at me, like meeows kinda wildly even at the lowest dosage. That's why the vet said to not give her Mirtazapine since she wasn't responding too well as to the side effetcts only. But instead to be on the cerenia and fomatidine. I mean also, the costs. I mean at the rate she was prescribed...Id have to spend like $45-$60 a week to keet up with the meds? Since that is what I paid for a supply for what seemed a week. I can't be doing that cost on a weekly basis like that.
 
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