Permethrin/pyrethrins And Cats

For the first time ever I'm having issues with ticks on my dog. Not only is that a risk for his health, but the ticks can hitch a ride without biting and crawl off in the house, putting my senior cat at risk. I don't use a topical tick treatment on my dog because I know permethrin is very dangerous to cats at the high concentrations in pest treatments for dogs. Much of the reading I've been doing says that Permethrin and Pyrethrins are ok at very low amounts (1-2% or less). There's a spray I always put on my dog before hikes and wash off immediately when we get home that kills/repels ticks and contains low doses of everything:

Permethrin 0.50%, Pyrethrins 0.10%, Piperonyl Butoxide 1.0%

Permethrin is well below the 1% threshold. I'm not too concerned about the low Pyrethrin and Piperonyl Butoxide concentration because Eradimite, which is safe for use in cats and kittens, has Pyrethrins 0.15% and Piperonyl Butoxide 1.5%.

I think the product is safe enough but I would still like the opinion of you lovely people. My cat wouldn't be coming into direct contact with the spray as it's always applied outside and it dries quickly. She also doesn't love my dog so there's no direct contact between them. I'm thinking of only applying it to his paws/legs and I wouldn't be washing it off afterward since he can pick up ticks in the yard and such.

I've yet to actually see a tick, but I'm petrified of one getting on me, or me bringing one inside to get on Ruby. So I totally understand your concerns.

About the spray, probably you should check with your vet and get their advice.

What about a topical like Frontline plus. I believe that the ingredients are the same for both the cat and dog versions so they would be considered "safe" for cats. And since there is no contact between the dog and cat, it would be even less of a concern if you are generally against the use of flea and tick products on the cat.

I agree with darg about using Frontline Plus.

All these years I've been functioning under the belief that Revolution prevented and/or killed ticks. I use it on the feral colonies we support and always thought they were protected. I've only recently discovered that I was wrong.

If I were you I would definitely look into Frontline Plus.

Topicals have never worked for my dog. We've always ended up with horrible flea infestations, so now we stick to chewables. He also likes to roll in disgusting stuff and requires regular bathing, which isn't great with topicals. I was considering NexGuard or Bravecto until I read the warning the FDA released about seizures when using that type of preventative.

The vets here aren't responsive when you ask about products that don't come from them, which is why I asked here. They Google it and then charge you for the time if they're even willing to do anything at all. If you bring them information about it they'll skim it and go with whatever the article says.

sabrinah said:

The vets here aren't responsive when you ask about products that don't come from them, which is why I asked here. They Google it and then charge you for the time if they're even willing to do anything at all.

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That's pretty annoying.

Yes, it is annoying to say the least.

I think I'm going to give the spray a shot on his legs and see what happens. If Cookie seems at all bothered by it I'll wash it off him. All the research I've done suggests it'll be fine, especially since I'm not applying it directly on her. I've used it around the outside of my window in the past and she didn't react to it at all. The spot where the tick was is irritated and I would hate for him or my cat to have to deal with more ticks. She's pretty fluffy and doesn't tolerate being touched on her legs, tail, or stomach so I can't thoroughly check her for ticks, let alone remove one. Since Cookie is 16 I don't want to switch medications on her to something that covers ticks because she's pretty sensitive. She handles Revolution well thankfully. Maybe I'll just give her a monthly bath with flea and tick shampoo for the rest of Summer and Fall just in case.

Good luck. Hope your plan works.

I've continued doing research because I always overthink and overstress, and the conclusion seems to be that none of it is toxic once it dries unless the cat licks it. Since it's always applied outside right before we leave there's no chance she'll come into contact with it wet. I'm pretty sure she would rather swim across a river than lick the dog. So far she hasn't reacted to it being on his legs.

Permethrin and Pyrethrins, among other chemicals, have commonly been used in premise sprays meant for inside the home, including carpets. They have generally been considered safe to pets once dry. I'm not trying to suggest that you spray your home nor start a debate on using the products at all. Just making another point in the favor that your cat should be ok with them if they are only applied only to the dog.

I found a scab and an irritated bald spot on his neck that suggests a tick was there for quite some time and dropped off. It was right by his little mole so it was easy to miss. I guess the tick problem has been going on for longer than I realized and the darn things could be dropping off in the house. On the bright side, there are no new ones on his feet thanks to the spray I coated his legs with.

I went to the feed store and bought Frontline Plus since it can be used with Comfortis. I'm not optimistic since topicals have never worked for us before, but it's worth a shot. He also really doesn't like it. As soon as I put it on he started rolling around on the carpet and is trying to scratch at it. I also bought Wondercide for Home and Pet. After I put the Frontline on I sprayed the couch and dog beds with Wondercide. The smell is strong. It's so strong that I don't know if I can spray Cookie's cat tree and beds with it. It's been 30 minutes with all the windows open and the smell still hasn't dissipated at all. The smaller couch, rugs, and chairs all still have to be sprayed but I don't think staying in the house would be tolerable for anyone if I did it all at once. There's no permethrin or pyrethrins in it though so it seemed safer than all the other options and I was hoping the smell wouldn't be as strong as Vet's Best.

Precor 2000 ... just saying.

I am wearing my flak jacket and fully prepared for the incoming.

darg said:

Precor 2000 ... just saying

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That only kills adult ticks though. I'm not a fan of having to wait for any larvae to hatch out, grow, feed on my pets/me while nymphs, then finally die when they're adults. It's good as a preventative but not so much if there could already be eggs or larvae in the house.

I found another product that looks interesting. It's essentially just tubes filled with cotton that was soaked in 7.4% permethrin. The idea is that rats/mice will take the cotton to use in their nests and it'll kill the fleas and ticks on and around them, thus reducing the flea and tick populations in the entire area. The company claims that a cat would have to eat 100 mice that were using the cotton in their nests before becoming ill from the permethrin. I already know we have rats and/or mice around the house and something (or multiple things) in the attic and basement. It would be really easy to make the product myself by soaking cotton in permethrin and sticking it in toilet paper rolls. I can even dilute the permethrin to less than 1% to reduce the chance of toxicity. People use rodent poison like mad around here (forested area- lots of pests) so I would assume the cats have learned not to eat what they kill because I've yet to see or hear about poisoned cats.

If anyone has ever thought of using Wondercide, make sure you consider the scent you choose very carefully. Only cedar was available at the feed store and the smell is insane. I think my stepmom is going to kill me. On the bright side, flies hate it just as much as I do and it kills spiders. I can't comment on how Cookie feels about it because she's locked in my bedroom while the house airs out with the doors open.

Does your dog spend time in a yard or a bigger open space? If 99% of the dogs time outside is spent in a fenced yard and it's not too big you could use wondercide outside to hopefully kill any that might hop on. Aim around trees, bushes, overgrowth or any kind of brush, they seem to like hiding out in shady areas.

The methoprene in Precor 2000 only works on flea larvae, not the tick larvae, that is true. But I don't know of anything that kills tick larvae. I assume that you already know that Precor 2000 also contains permethrin (among other things) as well but that permethrin doesn't do anything to the larvae either.

At any rate, while I don't like using insecticides indoors and, thankfully, haven't had to in many years, I would use something like Precor 2000 before I ever used Wondercide or any of the similiar, natural products that stink up the house with their nausea inducing cedar or peppermint "scent" from the depths of hell.

Best of luck in your tick battle.

He has a small grassy (honestly, it's mostly weeds and dirt) potty area he has access to 24/7 and we play in the larger yard daily. He never used to sit or lay down in his potty area but today I found him napping in a sunny patch there because the neighbor dogs keep barking at him when he sleeps on the cement. This explains how he got a tick on his neck. I would say only like an hour at most is spent sunning himself. I don't understand why we didn't have a tick problem last year but we do this year. Maybe it's because they're through more phases with selling houses in the town and there are a lot more dogs and outdoor cats than there were before.

I was looking into using Ortho Home Defense Insect Killer for Lawn Granules on both sections of the yard. It's cheap enough that I can get 10 or 20 lbs of it. It's pretty much always windy here so I don't want to just use a spray and have most of it lost to the wind. With the granules, it's sprinkled on and then watered to make it soak in.

Supposedly, Wondercide kills all stages of fleas and ticks which is why I got it for the house. It's also the variety that's safe to use directly on the pets themselves. I now have all the fans on to try and air this place out. My nose is very uncomfortable. Beast won't stop rolling in it so he clearly likes it. I ordered the sampler box that has small bottles of all the scents to find the least awful one for future use.

So Frontline Plus makes Beast itchy, cedarwood Wondercide smells like rubber after a couple of days, and the flea shampoo made Cookie throw up while grooming herself after the bath. I suppose it could have also been the hair getting stuck on her tongue and in her throat (a foreign sensation at this point because she doesn't groom anymore) but I'm strongly leaning towards the shampoo causing it. I didn't notice until after the bath that it contains pyrethrins and piperonyl butoxide, which seem to be in all flea and tick shampoo. She was surprisingly dirty so a monthly bath (not always with flea and tick shampoo) is in order.

I treated the yard with Ortho. I did a heavy dose in the front yard that should last 3 months and a lighter dose in the back yard/ potty area that'll probably need to be reapplied in a month or two. I didn't want to do the 3-month dose back there because 1) Beast naps back there and I don't know if or how he's going to react to it and 2) I couldn't keep the neighborhood cats out of it until it dried and I don't want them to get super sick.