Dealing With Stress Based Diarrhea And Middening

MarvelousMelissa

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Itty Bitty is 14 years old. Her cat brother Aven died suddenly last October from a possible heart attack. It was a pesky little sister/big brother kinda relationship, but they loved each other very much.

After his sudden death, she just wasn’t the same. Her grief seemed to manifest itself with her digestion. Prior to his death, she was in good health. Afterwards we dealt with weight loss despite a huge appetite, occasional regurgitation, and intermittent diarrhea. She was eventually diagnosed about 2 months ago with low cobalamin. She has been taking Cobalequin for about 6 weeks now.

About 3 weeks ago we added Sherman. He is one years old and quickly learned to let Itty Bitty be in charge. He shows all the characteristic submissive behaviors. They are not best buddies yet, but have moments of sniffing one another and minor fights. Initially she got so scared of him, that she peed or pooped, but that only happened once in the last week. Just yesterday, he watched happily as she played fetch with her favorite toy. And didn’t object to him sleeping in a basket right below her favorite bed.

She currently gets a morning regimen of 1/2 can of Newman’s Own Chicken and Liver along with 1 and 1/2 medallions of Nature’s Variety Raw chicken(she used to eat just raw food for several years) with 1/8 tsp slippery elm and 1/8 tsp Animal Essential Plant Enzymes and Probiotics (previouly took Fortiflora from the vet). She gets the same thing as her evening meal minus the Animal Essentials.

*****The litterbox issues were definitely here before Sherman.**

After Aven’s death she had these very peculiar litterbox manners. Some continue currently
—a period of only peeing in her litter box and not pooping, then switching back to pooping in her litter box, and not peeing.
—deciding to use the basement litter box and not the upstairs one she always used
—perfectly formed poop right next to her food dish on a regular basis
—peeing right in front of me (her urine tested fine—no UTIs)
—diarrhea in and out of the litter box
—well formed poop in very obvious middening like places
—regurgitation but normal litter box usages for about a week


To make the litterbox more appealing and help with digestive issues
we took off the sides of her preferred Breeze Box
added the litter pellets again (she used to prefer it without the pellets)
Added a litter box to the main floor of the house—it was ignored.
Feliway spray and diffusers
Probiotics
HAppy Tummy and UR Fine Floer Essences
Homeopathy AntiAnxiety and Digestive Aid
Rescue Remedy.
Animal Communicator
Regular vet and Intergrative Chiropractic Vet

Adding Sherman to the mix has certainly added to her stress.
We have continued all the above techniques and added a few more things.
—4 total litter boxes
-Dr. Elsey litter and cat attract sprinkles on her litter
—dedicated regular playtime and attention for both cats
—feeding her with her special microchip reader bowl in various places in the kitchen and right near SHerman

This week she decided mostly to use the kitchen for both pooping in peeing (with occasional basement litter box usage). Having a perfectly formed poop, 2x right by her food, the other times in various other parts of the small kitchen. And peeing at night and a couple times during the day in the kitchen. The other weird thing is that her overnight poop has been perfectly formed, but the mid day poop has been diarrhea -once in the box on her own, a couples times with assistance in the box with my escort, and a couple of accident. Just today under the table I was working at before finally asking for the advice if the CatSite.

I don’t think it is a litter box type or location issue. Or totally a new cat stress issue. All these issues started way before the new cat Sherman was in the picture.

I have been Googling and scoring thre CatSite Forums. But am running out of ideas. I have never was a big paper towel user, and have bought more in the last 2 months than I have in my whole adult life! Cleaning up poop and pee is getting so old!

Anyone else dealt with middening? Cat dementia? Inconsistent stress related diarrhea? Jealousy? Old kitty digestive issues? Any thoughts will be appreciated.
 

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Mamanyt1953

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It's a little young to be dementia, but not totally unheard-of at that age. It looks as if you've already done most of the things we generally suggest, to no avail. I will say that three weeks in to having a new cat in the house is not long AT ALL in a cat's world. This may very well be new-cat stress. Some total integrations take weeks, some can take months, and older cats are slower to adjust to change.

I'm going to give you some articles on stress, since I think this may actually be the culprit, here. They certainly won't hurt a thing!

Do Cats Get Jealous? (and What To Do About It When They Do) (just in case)
Is Your Cat Stressed Out?
Potential Stressors In Cats - The Ultimate Checklist
Six Surefire Strategies To Reduce Stress In Cats
You, Your Cat And Stress

It looks like a lot more reading than it actually is. Our articles are clear, concise and easy to read. You may find just what you need in your particular situation in one of them!

And do let us know how things go, we'll fret!
 
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MarvelousMelissa

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Thanks for your help. I did real the article about jealousy. I will look at the others.

What do you make of the fact that all these issues happened before the new kitty came around?

I forgot to mentioned we are trying the Composure treats I read about in one of the threads. Itty Bitty had 1 and Sherman the other 29 2 days ago. We just got a new package and I gave Itty Bitty one and secured the rest from Sherman in a drawer!

Also I am adding the regular Feliway to our diffuser regime. Currently the kitchen gets sprayed with the regular and has a diffuser with Multi Cat.
 

Mamanyt1953

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It's a puzzle. MUCH of what goes on with cats is a puzzle...but...it seemed to start with the death of Aven (and I am so very sorry for your loss), which would have been a major stressor for (especially) an older, deeply bonded cat. That set off a series of problems and they seem to have "waterfalled" from there. But I have to tell you, this is just guessing here. I want so badly to have an AH HA moment, and one may come, but not yet.
 

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Hi. I do think that Aven's death and then getting a new kitten all in the span of less than a year could be part of the issue. The older a cat is the harder it is for them to adjust to not only such a critical loss, but then a new cat/kitten as well. I just read an article about swans and how they wait to match a swan to a new mate for more than 2 years due to the grieving process. So...

The low cobalamin - was it determined what the cause was - GI issues, I am guessing? And, is the Cobalequin in pill form? I have always heard that B12 in for the form of a pill is much less effective, especially in certain cases of GI troubles. Perhaps, she is being affected by this?

And, lastly given the timing of the different stool consistency, could the Animal Essential Plant Enzymes be playing a role? It would seem her stool that might be related to getting this enzyme is normal, and the other is diarrhea without it?

Also, since most of her inappropriate peeing/pooping is in the kitchen, can you place a litter box in there for a while just to see if that makes a difference? Trying to see if she is having trouble waiting to 'go' after eating and drinking that is causing so much 'activity' in the kitchen area.

Just trying to throw ideas out there in case something might 'ring a bell'.
 
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MarvelousMelissa

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Just came back from a walk and she went back to peeing at the bottom of the basement stairs next to the litter box we have there. That was the usual place before the kitchen accidents started about a week ago. There is a Feliway diffuser in the basement, almost empty so maybe a fresh one will be better than the spray. I will try her old favorite litterless Breeze litterbox upstairs. She used that for year with no litter what so ever— just the pee pad.

As far as her grief, we tried Jackson Galaxy’s Loss Remedy Flower Essences and that helped a bit.

I didn’t think a new cat friend make everything better immediately but hoping she can learn to appreciate his companionship. I work mainly at home at my “Mouse Factory” making eco-friendly cat toys under the business name Marvelous Melissa so I am home most the time to supervise and assist with trips to the litter box.

I have done a ton of reading on Traditional Chinese Veterinary Medicine and accupuncture, but there are no practitioners here in Duluth. Eastern medicine puts a much bigger connection between the animals physical health and emotional health. It would be a 2 1/2 hour trip to Minneapolis.

I will see what happens with the use of the Feliaway Classic diffuser and the Composure treats.

Any thoughts on switching back totally to raw food? She was eating entirely raw for several years. We switched mainly to orijen dry food for awhile because suddenly she stopped eating the raw food, but now she wants to eat everything! I just added the raw again because she was eating one and three-quarter cans of the expensive Newmanns own ( a simple liver meal to help her liver in the TCVM theory) and raw was equally costly and agreed with her in the past. But all throughout this process she would occasionally have well formed poop and then diarrhea. Never long periods of either one.

But again I think it is more stress than digestion issues so maybe not change anything food wise yet. I will try stopping the probiotics for her morning meal.

As far as the Cobalequin, that was what the vet vet suggested. Something new in the last couple years that is proven as helpful as the shots. She is due any day now for a follow up six week blood work check up.


The other thing I thought of is that she has never had an accident for the pet sitter. So back to my middening ideas that the poop and pee messages are for her specific humans?! We are going away for the day tomorrow so we’ll see if that holds true with Sherman now part of the picture.
 

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First, I'm sorry about Aven. Losing them suddenly is hard on everyone.
Since her vet stuff has checked out OK I wonder if the others aren't right and what started out as grief or insecurity of loss has moved on to the addition of Sherman. It sounds like Sherman is the best cat you could have asked for that he respects her and doesn't bully her, so at least there's that.
How long after you started adding the canned to her formerly only raw diet did these behaviors start, or did they start long before? The regurgitation and occasional diarrhea would make me think that there's a slight chance she's associated the litter box with that upset stomach and she gets better about using it, then the symptoms return, and once again the box has a bad association. We've dealt with this for years with a cat that has IBD (or IBD like symptoms) and he's been very good about using the box, and then one day he'll pee in it and poop right next to it (not diarrhea).
Whatever happens, your "have done/tried" list is exhaustive, and excellent. Your love and dedication shows.
 
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MarvelousMelissa

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I am trying to remember the details of her switch from raw. It was several months before we switched to less raw. Thinking it would be easier and more economical for her to eat some of the same dry food Aven ate. But then she decided she didn’t like the raw food anymore. We just added the raw back a few weeks ago. Looking back at my notes from earlier this spring, she regular stretches good nighttime litter box usage but daytime middening like accidents.

I remember a May old kitty check up for both Aven and Itty Bitty last May. She was the healthy one, and Aven was the one with considerable weight loss. He had become a picky eater but she still had a voracious appetite.

After his sudden death the vet recommended the heart panel blood test. Her numbers were initially at a elevated level along with her liver numbers. Then they were down in a follow up and then back up again. Her most recent check up didn’t do the heart panel, but rather the special test for pancreatic enzyme insufficieny and b12 and the regular liver panel(improved)

It has been an ongoing saga with a little something different everyday. Some days she is fine with him, but the next day she can’t stop growling at him and giving him an evil stare. This evening despite her Composure treats she was back to “guarding” the kitchen and not letting Sherman pass by. There is never any grumbling when they are outside in the deck together. He learning to use a leash and harness, her free because she used to be scared of going outside. That was something else that changed after he died— it used to take until July each summer before she realized it was not so scary.

Thanks again for all your support and care.
 
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MarvelousMelissa

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We woke up this morning to the picture poop right next to her food dish, poop in Sherman’s basket, and a pee spot on the couch where our friend and regular pet sitter sat last night when visiting.

Should I share my questions with the behavior group? Do you different people follow that one?
 

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Mamanyt1953

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It wouldn't hurt. MOST of us follow several forums, but there are some who don't feel they contribute as much in one or another, so stay pretty much out of them. Just mention that you started the thread here, and wanted to get the widest possible numbers of readers.
 
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MarvelousMelissa

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Still looking for help with this issue. Her b12 improved with the Cobalequin but she continues to lose weight. On day 3 of steroids for potential lymphoma or ibd.
 

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How many days of steroids is she due to get? There likely won't be a real improvement just 3 days in. Also, as I recall she wasn't given a steroid shot, just oral steroids? That will take longer to kick in. Are you weighing her daily to know that she is continuing to lose weight?

I also think Sherman is playing a role in Itty Bitty's health, from the standpoint of aggravating her ability to deal with him. They really should be separated until you can get her health under better control. She is sick - and that combined with her age - is causing her to be less accommodating of Sherman.
 
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MarvelousMelissa

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All of this litter box behavior happened before Sherman was a part of our family. It stated after her kitty friend Aven died last October.

The crazy, sad thing is that Sherman died suddenly Friday night at the ER Vet. He was having trouble breathing most likely due to to fluid in his lungs as a result of FIP. We hardly knew him. He had only lived with our family for 5 weeks. He was 1 years old, adopted from the animal shelter with a clean bill of health other than a level 2 heart murmur.

Itty Bitty is on day 4 of prednisolone and Science Diet I/d. She still gets 2 Small Nature’s Variety Raw patties with slippery elm and probiotics and digestive enzymes.

The morning after Sherman’s unexpected death, she had a nice well formed poop right next to her dish. Later in the day she pooped next to the communal scratching post (formed but not quite as firm as the overnight one).
Today she pooped in her litter box.

As far as peeing—it’s been a combo—next to the litter box, in the litter box, the kitchen floor, the basement steps, her own bed. **She has tested negative twice for any UTI. Also no hyperthyroidism or diabetes. Just dilute urine.

We weighed her today and she was up about 2 ounces since last week.
 

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