Injured Kitten, Danger From Wildlife, Pics Included

moxiewild

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Hi all!

We take care of some ferals and have had a hell of a time trapping two of them primarily because of wildlife - namely raccoons, who quickly learned they would be immediately released and now have no fear of the trap and will trap themselves every 10-15 minutes all night long on our trap nights (and there are probably about 10 regulars every night). Because these two ferals generally live in peace with the raccoons and often eat with them, they've on more than one occasion witnessed the trapping and became weary of the traps.

I won't go into all we've tried, but it looks as though one of our little guys apparently had kittens at some point. Some time in the last 12 hours she must have moved this kitten to one of the shelters on our porch, probably due to recent weather.

The kitten appears injured and is not using one of it's legs. No blood or wound is evident and the kitten doesn't appear to be in particular pain, but obviously we want to take it to the vet. I work with seniors cats so I don't have a lot of experience with kittens - but I also work with other injured and orphaned baby mammals, and if I had to guess, I'd say this kitten is probably around the 6 week mark.

I'm not positive on how to proceed. Is the kitten too young to be taken away from Momma? As in, would it be preferable to try to trap Momma and let her continue raising the kitten and keep them both indoors for a few weeks together (while also trying to socialize the kitten)?

We do realize that no matter what we do, we'll have to keep the kitten indoors, both due to its injury, and to protect it from wildlife (which includes the occasional fox and opossum too). I'm just not sure if it's best to try to trap Socks too or not with it. Socks is not normally here enough during the day so we've never been successful trying to trap her during daylight, but she's in protective momma mode right now and has been sticking around all day long so... maybe there's a chance?

We have made a lot of headway in gaining Sock's trust recently too - will taking her kitten away from her impact that? Will she understand it was us if we do it when she's not around? Obviously we're going to take the kitten regardless, I'd just rather be emotionally prepared if that's a possibility. We love Socks and are not looking forward to putting her through the stress of separating her from her kitten.

Any advice appreciated, sorry if this was long winded and disorganized.

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moxiewild

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Also - while I seriously doubt this - does anyone know if its possible that Socks could still have kittens elsewhere that she's still tending to, and just moved this one because of its injury?

Like I said, I very highly doubt that, but it is a fear I have when thinking about trapping Socks, so I'd rather make sure the likelihood of such a situation really is low according to someone with more experience with kittens/feline maternal behavior.
 
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moxiewild

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I already posted in SOS (sorry mods, trying to figure out how to delete it!), but I need to get this kitten to the vet before they close today and that post hasn't received a response yet. After thinking about it, I think the questions would be more suitable here and my other post got a little sidetracked due to the unexpectedness of the situation and all the variables I was considering in the immediate aftermath of the entire situation.

Anyway, apparently one of our feral cats (yet to be TNR'd, long story) had a kitten. The kitten appears to not be using one leg, though no blood or wound is evident and it is moving around and acting perfectly fine otherwise.

My question is whether this kitten appears old enough to permanently separate from Mom. I'm not familiar with kittens, but based on my job working with injured and orphaned baby mammals (native Texas wildlife, exotics), if I had to guess, I'd say this kitten is at least somewhere around the 6 week mark.

My specific questions are:

- How old does this kitten appear to be?

- Is that old enough to permanently separate from Mom, or would it be strongly preferable to try and trap her mom (named Socks) and keep them together for a while longer, indoors and under our care?

- How likely is it that Socks will "understand" that we are the ones who took her kitten? We've been caring for her for a while now and we love her very much, and I worry that if she knows it's us, she might never return, or at least not for a while. Rest assured, we're taking the kitten regardless - this question is more for emotional preparedness.

- Is it possible Socks could have other kittens elsewhere that she is still tending to, and only brought this one to our porch shelter (which she's never stayed in prior to today) because it is injured? I very seriously doubt a cat would separate her kittens like that and am fairly positive she's moved her kitten to our shelter because it has been unexpectedly rainy and cold the past few days, but I just want to be sure that if we end up trapping Socks, it's very unlikely that we're taking her away from other kittens who still need her.

- Other than that, most of my cat experience is with seniors and geriatrics, and I have no real kitten experience (in fact, I've only gained actual experience with young and non-senior adult cats in just the past few months), so if you have any standard advice on care of a kitten around this age, it would be VERY appreciated to back from the vet to!





Thank you, everyone!
 

StefanZ

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Momma shy feral? So yes, separation now is sound. Its simply much easier to foster him into a social cat, easy to adopt out. So its an exception from the usual rules of minimum 8+ weeks.
But he will need a fostering home, or at least, an understanding adoptions family.

He seems to be 5 weeks, possibly 6.
My guess is 5.

moxiewild moxiewild
 

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I wouldn't be surprised if the Mom brought this kitten for help. It's happened before with even feral cats who recognize a good feeder set up and bring their kittens for help. Agreed that the kitten looks old enough to be separated from Mom permanently. I'd offer KMR in a dish or mixed with wet food for a few weeks just for a little nutrition boost but there shouldn't be any health issues.
 

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Hello moxiewild. I wonder whether you have had a chance to follow Socks with a view to find out if she has other kittens. If you are convinced that the little one she brought to you is the only one she has, then yes, it would be an excellent idea to have her trapped and reunited with him. While it is safe to separate kittens from their mom at 8 weeks, we know that they benefit from staying with her until they are 12 weeks old and even older.
 
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moxiewild

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Thank you guys! Kitten is at the vet right now.

I think when we get back we're going to make an effort to trap Socks so we can reunite them. Socks was there when we took the baby, and it broke my heart seeing her search for him :(
 

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Thank you guys! Kitten is at the vet right now.

I think when we get back we're going to make an effort to trap Socks so we can reunite them. Socks was there when we took the baby, and it broke my heart seeing her search for him :(
When the baby gets back, you can show her that it is fine.
 
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moxiewild

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So it turns out the kittens paw is actually missing! The vet thinks it's likely that it was a traumatic injury rather than congenital based off of her evaluation of it. She offered to do an xray but said we'd treat it the same either way, so we opted not to.

For now, we're going to watch it. It has already started to develop a callus, which is good, but there are still some open wounds. Amputation may be necessary in the future.

The vet also thought the kitten was 4-6 weeks old. Her instructions were to feed just wet food in slurry form, and to feed 3-4 times a day. Does that sound appropriate?

I also asked her about the Momma, Socks. We've been caring for Socks since December-ish, since she herself was an older kitten. I found it very peculiar (though not impossible) that I wouldn't have noticed that she was pregnant or gave birth. We also take pictures of her pretty regularly... at least once or twice a month. We looked back at those and also never noticed a change.

Despite the kitten having the same exact coloring as Socks, the vet said there's a good possibility that Socks is acting as a surrogate mother.

If she is, the poor thing is quite dedicated! As soon as we came home we started setting up our regular"feral crate" and baby proofing it. We also started setting up the trap to see if we could trap Socks since she was staying super close by, which isn't normally the case.

Socks just kept looking in the shelter, and just sitting in front of it and staring in at us through the backdoor window. Socks has never done that before. She'll lay and sunbathe on the porch, but doesn't like to catch our attention. She's also been vocalizing all afternoon and evening, which I have never, ever heard her do before.

Any time we've called her today, she's shown up pretty immediately as soon as we go back inside, too.

A couple hours ago I called her and had the trap set up and she went in pretty easily. I was so excited, but the stupid thing didn't trip! She probably managed to evade the plate.

We just tried again and she went all the way but stopped JUST SHORT of the plate. She backed out and tried to get at the food from the side, and then she gave up and went and sat on the steps for about 10 minutes, then left.

If she is really a surrogate, and given her behavior in regards to missing the kitten, is it still okay/safe if we kept them together indoors? And what about spaying Socks? The earliest we could do it is Monday, should we just wait until the kitten is older and just have them spayed together?

What is the best environment to keep either the kitten alone, or keep the kitten and mom together? This is our usual feral crate set up:

Socks.JPG


We've added cardboard along the bottom for the kitten.


Currently, the kitten is in a crate with a blanket and snuggle safe, and I left her with some food and a bowl of PetAg powdered KMR just in case. Otherwise, I've been leaving her alone because she is very stressed out. She allowed me to hold and pet her at the vet, and was even trading "blinky eyes" with me, but ever since then she's been nonstop hissing and spitting at me.



She looks horribly depressed there, but she had her eyes closed right before this.

Any input is greatly appreciated! Thank you all so much!
 
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moxiewild

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StefanZ StefanZ Yes, Momma is a shy feral, though we've made some breakthroughs over the last few weeks recently. Would it be too difficult to socialize the kitten if we keep them together inside with us? Is it possible to allow them to still be together while we work on socializing the kitten if Momma is still very feral?

golondrina golondrina that's a really great idea! I was wondering before how we could pull that off but couldn't think of anything. However, we have a motion sense camera that I realized we can set to continue to record for at least a few minutes after it's motion triggered... maybe that would be enough to at least see the general direction she goes in?
 
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moxiewild

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Socks just keeps coming back, vocalizing, and checking the shelter. It's very hard to watch, emotionally. She has no interest in the trap at all now and raccoons keep getting themselves trapped at this point (this is the primary reason why we still haven't been able to get her and one other feral neutered yet...).

We're going to give it a bit longer and then take the trap in for the night since we've been through this a million times before with the wildlife here. Maybe since she's looking for the kitten she'll stay around again tomorrow like she was today and we'll be able to trap her then.

I just wish there was some way to tell her the baby is okay :(
 
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moxiewild

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How long should I wait to worry if the kitten doesn't eat? I have no idea what is normal for this and what is worrying/what isn't and how to entice a kitten to eat.

She is currently in a bathroom. We opened the carrier, which has a blanket and snuggle safe inside with a blanket covering most of the carrier itself. We put a lamp with low light in there and changed it to a warm bulb, and we have "cat music" playing outside the bathroom door. We also have a puppy pad down with some litter scattered over it a bit. She has three bowls in with her - one with KMR, one with water, and one with a fancy feast classic slurry.

She hasn't touched any of it and is choosing to hide behind the toilet. I'm worried about the lack of eating, possibly the lack of urinating or pooping, and the fact that she's choosing to be on the cold, tile floor :/ How big of an issue would warmth be for her at this age?

Sorry for having so many questions, I'm just so worried about these two :(
 
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StefanZ

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If you have possibility to take Socks inside, yes you could foster them together. Surely the best solution.

The kitten now is worrying. You seems to do excellently.

Perhaps force feeding may be necessary?
 

StefanZ

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How long should I wait to worry if the kitten doesn't eat? I have no idea what is normal for this and what is worrying/what isn't and how to entice a kitten to eat.

She is currently in a bathroom. We opened the carrier, which has a blanket and snuggle safe inside with a blanket covering most of the carrier itself. We put a lamp with low light in there and changed it to a warm bulb, and we have "cat music" playing outside the bathroom door. We also have a puppy pad down with some litter scattered over it a bit. She has three bowls in with her - one with KMR, one with water, and one with a fancy feast classic slurry.

She hasn't touched any of it and is choosing to hide behind the toilet. I'm worried about the lack of eating, possibly the lack of urinating or pooping, and the fact that she's choosing to be on the cold, tile floor :/ How big of an issue would warmth be for her at this age?

Sorry for having so many questions, I'm just so worried about these two :(
How is it going?
If you reunite them, I hope the problems will solve by themselves.

If you proceed as you do... With adult cats or older kittens its no big problem, essentially just to wait it out... But he is little and was hurt, so the margins are much thinner.

If he doesnt come out in a few hours (half of them has already gone) you must step in. Talk a lot in a quiet calm voice, and make friendly noises. Take it in a burrito, hold near your chest and heart, and try to entice kmr (or the slurry if he had eaten it earlier) having some on your finger, and let him lick off.
Hopefully he will find the taste good, and it will be the breaking point...

If not, you can buy some time by smearing karo or honey + water on his lips and gums. The glucose sugar in there goes straight into blood... You can repeat this frequently.

And or forcefeeding with a needleless syringe, in the usual way...

Not optimal, but his margins are thin, as said...

I hope you being there will find a solution! I see you are thinking along the right ways!
 

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moxiewild moxiewild Just skimming through your thread, so sorry if someone else suggested this already, but how about using the kitten as bait to trap Socks?


Rather than setting the trap prop the door open with a full 2 liter drinks bottle with a rope tied around it. That way you can jerk the rope and shut the trap when Socks goes inside, rather than repeatedly trapping and releasing the raccoons.

(I had one wise old neutered male cat that used to trap himself every night so he could stuff himself with tuna.;))
 
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moxiewild

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StefanZ StefanZ - Yes, I am about to proceed with syringe feeding, I just don't have a feeding syringe small enough. But I have a tonnnnnn of syringes for oral medication so I'm thinking if I just load those up, I'll be able to get something in her. I syringe feed other baby mammals for a living, so it shouldn't be too hard. Although they aren't usually spitting and hissing at me :lol:

Norachan Norachan - I was JUST going to ask if there was a way to use the kitten to get her, so thank you. She is still just coming up and vocalizing and checking the shelter. She's been coming up to the window, staring at me, and meowing. In the six months we've been caring for her, she has never made a single vocalization. The sound she makes at me is becoming different (and more meow-like every time) than the sound she usually makes when looking for her kitten. It's just so hard to watch her search :(

We just had her in the trap again but my boyfriend forgot to put paper on the trip plate and she avoided it.





I don't think there is any way we could do the water bottle thing though. There's nowhere for us to hide to where Socks would feel remotely comfortable coming up to the trap. I'm trying to go through possible scenarios and none seem feasible. So long as we can do it during daylight though, we'll only have the other ferals to contend with.

I was thinking of doing something exactly like the video! I had thought of covering the sides of the carrier but it completely didn't occur to me to cover the sides of the trap, so thank you! I'm going to feed the little one a bit and then I think I'll try that. Socks has been very good about coming when we call since we took the kitten, so fingers crossed that this will work and we can reunite mom and baby!
 

StefanZ

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You handfeed mammals for a living? Wow! Also: most rescuers are volunteers. To be able to make of it! Wow!
You are welcome to tell more!

In the long run, its good you learn how to feed through a tube.
Its nothing for a newbe, but useful for halfpros.
Also get home IR warming lamps, real glucose sugar so you dont need jury rig with karo or honey, and find where you can get raw goats milk.
 
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moxiewild

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Good news, y'all!

I managed to get a tiny bit of food in our kitten. She didn't want any slurried foods I tried, and she wasn't a fan of the powdered goat milk (that I mixed a tiny amount of Pedialyte with), though I did manage to get about 2 cc's/ 2 tsps in her. She did like turkey baby food though and licked some off my my finger and some from a bowl, for about 1/4 of a jar total.

I was just about to look up how many calories she should be getting for her weight (1.5 lbs yesterday) and ask you guys a question when Socks came up to my window again and meowed at me.

I acknowledged her and went to get the baby in the carrier to put out by the trap but Socks went in the trap and tripped it without any kind of bait whatsoever!

So Mom and baby have been reunited, and it turns out that Socks is indeed likely the real mother. The moment Socks got into the carrier inside the cage, the kitten started trying to nurse and we're pretty sure we saw a nipple.

I have no clue how on earth we could have missed her pregnancy, and I am beating myself up for not being able to get our last two ferals neutered in time.

Anyway, now I have some questions about how to proceed:

1. I wasn't really expecting the kitten to still be nursing. Don't the milk sacs have to dry up before she can be spayed? I'm trying to figure out the soonest I'd be able to take her to the clinic.

2. It didn't occur to me until I already had them both in there that I'm not sure how I'll be able to get access to the baby with Socks in there.

As a reminder, this is our set up:



It's an extra large dog crate/kennel with a regular sized pet carrier. The carrier door is twist tied to the crate to keep it open. Whenever I need to scoop the litter box, change the puppy pads, change the food and water, etc, I undo the twist tie and close the carrier door with a wooden yardstick.

This set up has always made everything EXTREMELY easy, as the ferals always automatically hide in the carrier, and it makes transporting them very, very easy.

But I didn't think about this in relation to how I would have access to the kitten or how I would be able to separate them when needed. What is the best course of action for doing that when the mother is feral?

3. Another similar problem I keep thinking about, is how I'm going to socialize the kitten, with the mother being feral and being unable to easily separate them. How is this usually handled?

Thank you all again so much, it's suck a relief to have them reunited.



(The faint white spot under Socks is the kitten :))
 
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