Grain Free Or Not?

I just adopted a 6 month old kitten (female). I researched everything I could about kittens and found that most things I read or heard said to feed grain-free food. I contacted 3 different vet clinics in my area for their recommendation and every one of them did NOT recommend grain-free. The foster mom was feeding her Nutro dry kitten food, which I currently am also free feeding that, then 3 times a day I give her 1/2 3oz. can of either Wilderness chicken pate for kittens or Iams chicken pate for kittens. But now after almost 2 weeks, she's starting to turn her nose up at both of those wet varieties, but she definitely doesn't prefer dry food either. She begs for food but when I put it down, she eats very little but will come back later and eat some more. Now I'm not sure what to do, I can't figure out what she likes and what she doesn't like. Grain free vs. not grain free and which variety of canned food - those are my big questions.

Let's take this in parts:

1. Cats are obligated carnivores, they should be eating a low carb diet, with high protein and moderate fat.
2. Grain free is good in theory because it should also lead to low carb. At least logically on the surface but....
3. Dry food needs a binder to be shelf stable and dry. When you exclude grains that ends up being peas or potato.
4. Peas and potato rich foods and grain free in general have been linked to health problems in DOGS (even that link is primarily found in large dog breeds prone to heart problems, it doesn't mean cats will have the same problems. Just like large dog breeds shouldn't be neutered or spayed until older but cats have no health problems related to early spay/neuter).
5. Wet foods don't need binders so grain free will usually relate to lower carbs.

All of this to say, grain free is a gimmick. You want a low carb food. Grain free labeling gives you a good starting point to eliminate wheat, rice and corn that your cat doesn't need in their diet. But you still need to be mindful of ingredients and alert to nutrition.

If you feed a grain free wet diet and pick food without peas or potatoes you are good. If you feed dry, try to find one with lower carbs something like Dr Elseys maybe.

Coolgram said:

I just adopted a 6 month old kitten (female). I researched everything I could about kittens and found that most things I read or heard said to feed grain-free food. I contacted 3 different vet clinics in my area for their recommendation and every one of them did NOT recommend grain-free. The foster mom was feeding her Nutro dry kitten food, which I currently am also free feeding that, then 3 times a day I give her 1/2 3oz. can of either Wilderness chicken pate for kittens or Iams chicken pate for kittens. But now after almost 2 weeks, she's starting to turn her nose up at both of those wet varieties, but she definitely doesn't prefer dry food either. She begs for food but when I put it down, she eats very little but will come back later and eat some more. Now I'm not sure what to do, I can't figure out what she likes and what she doesn't like. Grain free vs. not grain free and which variety of canned food - those are my big questions.

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What were the vets recommendations, and why did they recommend what they did?

She hasn't had a vet appointment since I adopted her 2 weeks ago, the rescue had taken care of all her shots and spaying etc. I just called the clinics to see if they recommended grain free or not but didn't get into specific brands of food.

I took Skye ( fur friend) to the vet for her yearly checkup yesterday ( everything was well) and I was VERY surprised when the vet told me that GRAIN FREE was NOT recommended. I feed Skye wet and dry food . The dry food is Instinct by nature variety, the vet was not a fan of it... she recommended Purina Pro Plan, Royal Canin, Hill's Science Diet, Iams/ Eukanuba ( never heard of Eukanuba before)
When I compare the ingredients, I think instinct is much better and the reviews too.

I asked her why Not Grain free? She said that they had found that grain free gives heart faulier to dogs and( so far there is no proven studies on cats) they put other types of grains and stuff that actually hurts the fur friends....

I'm not sure about the whole explanation.
Does anyone heard of this before?

What are your thoughts on the dry foods mentioned above?

Thank you!

Overall dry food is junk whether it's grain free or not, it's the equivalent of us humans eating nothing but fast food and tv dinners. Sure it gives you the nutrients you need to live but how healthy are you really going to be?

A lot of wet food is junk too. You really have to look at ingredients and avoid anything with biproducts and anything plant based in the first 3 or so ingredients. Basically anything under $1 a can is probably not very good.

Try https://feline-nutrition.org/ if you aren't afraid of a little information overload.

you have to ask yourself what would a cat eat if it lived outside. I can guarantee that they aren't eating grains. I suspect that some vets don't recommend grain free because most of the food that vets' sell are of a poor quality with grains and other fillers. I am happy that you are asking and doing research. I think you will find that there is overwhelming evidence that grain free wet or raw is the best for your cat.

GGG said:

I took Skye ( fur friend) to the vet for her yearly checkup yesterday ( everything was well) and I was VERY surprised when the vet told me that GRAIN FREE was NOT recommended. I feed Skye wet and dry food . The dry food is Instinct by nature variety, the vet was not a fan of it... she recommended Purina Pro Plan, Royal Canin, Hill's Science Diet, Iams/ Eukanuba ( never heard of Eukanuba before)
When I compare the ingredients, I think instinct is much better and the reviews too.

I asked her why Not Grain free? She said that they had found that grain free gives heart faulier to dogs and( so far there is no proven studies on cats) they put other types of grains and stuff that actually hurts the fur friends....

I'm not sure about the whole explanation.
Does anyone heard of this before?

What are your thoughts on the dry foods mentioned above?

Thank you!

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Grain free dry food still needs a binder to be shelf stable. The pet food companies want to keep it cheap so they switched to peas and potatoes for grain free foods. There are some signs that there may be a correlation between grain free and heart disease in large breed dogs that are already inclined towards heart disease.

Cats and dogs though are biologically different. A supposed link for dogs does not mean there is a link for cats. It also isn't a link specifically to grain free foods exactly. This article goes into it more It’s Not Just Grain-Free: An Update on Diet-Associated Dilated Cardiomyopathy but since most grain free diets also tend to have more exotic ingredients in general they really aren't 100% on what the exact problem is. Just that it seems to be connected to the grain free trend but that is also connected to people trying to do better then the old foods and companies throwing a lot of new things in the mix. Basically it's the same thing you see in human food trends of "X being the new hot thing to eat for health" until "opps if you go overboard with X you can cause Y". There simply isn't enough research to jump to any conclusions right now. AND the research being done is related to dogs who have a completely different biological profile and needs. To reiterate, as of right now everything anti grain free is directly related to large breed dogs only and even then primarily those already predisposed to heart problems. We do not know enough to say if cats are impacted.

I wish there was a straight forward easy answer, but there simply isn't. We don't know nearly enough about cats and how things impact them to really say 100% what is right. Essential oils? Could kill them, could help. Household cleaners? Could kill them, could do nothing. Next big trend diet? Could be good, could be bad. Plus some cats are sensitive to some foods while others are fine; my crew projectile vomits if their food has poultry in more then small amounts.

It's up to us to make the best choices we can out of what is usually a bunch of bad choices. We know cats are obligated carnivores so we know they evolved to eat high protein, low carb and moderate fat. We know they don't run around eating carrots and broccoli. So look for food that doesn't have things a wild cat wouldn't eat and fits the low carb, high protein and moderate fat idea. That usually means a higher price because meat is expensive and fillers are cheap.

A quick run down for those who need a short list of points:

• Wet food is generally better because it doesn't need as many fillers to be nutritionally complete or shelf stable.
• The ultimate bottom line is the best food is the one your cat will eat and you can afford.
• Pet food companies change labeling and won't say anything so read every label.
• Don't kick yourself if the best you can afford isn't the best there is.
• Don't starve your cat trying to force them to switch to better for them.
• Don't jump on trends (human or pet) without doing research. ..... This is more a general piece of life advice.
• Grain free labeling can help narrow down food options and eliminate things our cats don't need in their food. But you still need to pay attention to the ingredients and nurtition to pick a food that is biologically appropriate.

check this site out CatFoodDB's Best Wet Cat Foods

zed xyzed said:

you have to ask yourself what would a cat eat if it lived outside. I can guarantee that they aren't eating grains. I suspect that some vets don't recommend grain free because most of the food that vets' sell are of a poor quality with grains and other fillers. I am happy that you are asking and doing research. I think you will find that there is overwhelming evidence that grain free wet or raw is the best for your cat.

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I used to buy skye's food (wet and dry) from the vet, it is more expensive and I Wasn't a fan of the ingredients in it. I asked in this forum and I got great advice. I don't buy her food from the vet's office anymore. I don't have to go cheap with her food. I rather pay a little more , I try to give her a much wet food as I can because I know it's best for her

I was just surprised when I was told that grain free it's not good

This is a hot topic.

My cat Kaia had nothing but problems on grain free. I tried ALL kinds.....so so so many.
She gets no dry food at all, and all the grain free foods gave her diarrhea. It was awful and I didn’t understand because everything you read states cats are obligate carnivores. If grain free is closer to her natural diet, then what is the problem?? The problem was all the other stuff they add in place of grains.....peas etc. It’s also the extra vegetables and fruits added. She couldn’t handle any of it.
It took me forever to figure out the problem.....months. I thought it was an allergy, I thought it was IBS, I thought it was this brand then that brand, it just wouldn’t stop.
In desperation, I switched her to a non grain free food.....no more diarrhea or gas. No more issues at all. It all cleared up and has not come back.

So Kaia gets an all canned diet with one feeding of a frozen raw blend (turkey) every day. Canned foods are currently Friskies and Authority......both have grains and neither are stellar foods, but it’s what works for her. What works for your cat is most important. To me, it wasn’t worth it to keep up with grain free and have her belly upset all the time. I’d rather feed her the grains and also real, raw food with nothing added. Grains are almost always replaced with other things, and many cats can’t tolerate that.
Binx on the other hand has an iron stomach and can eat any food thankfully, with no issues.

Really the bottom line is that "grain free" foods just replace grains with other carbs that cats shouldn't eat like peas and potatoes. They are all carbs though. Carbs = obesity = diabetes = kidney failure... etc. So the vet is right, but they should elaborate on WHY not to feed GRAIN free because I bet in the conversation with your vet they never mentioned anything much about CARBS.

Vets are not nutritionists. They sell Hills, Purina and Royal Canin prescription food in their clinics because of this reason. Very controlled processes and ingredients in making the foods for specific issues with money back guarantees. So they have this certain problem they need to fix and there is a quick and obvious answer on the food that will treat that issue at hand.

Since they aren't nutritionists, they NEED this easy go-to specific diet to get the health issue under control. I firmly believe those diets are not meant to be on for life but owners who don't know, or don't care to know about cat nutrition NEED that simple solution for their pet with kidney failure or IBD or whatever.

Catinfo.org
Excellent site by a veterinarian
She’s adamant.....no dry food!
She explains why, both in great detail, or with a summary, depending on how information you want to process.

Kieka already covered the uncertainty about the possible connections between grain-free diets and dogs being diagnosed with dilated cardiomyopathy.

The points that Kieka and jen raised about grain-free not meaning low-carb relate to what sticks out most to me after rereading this article from Tufts University's vet clinic and this one from Whole Dog Journal: pet food manufacturers use other carby vegetable matter to substitute for grains.

I'll keep this relatively short because anyone can click through to the articles for themselves but I'll sum up by saying that both articles mention suspicions that ingredients like lentils, potatoes, and peas in dog food may be at the root of the problem. The Whole Dog Journal breaks things down pretty well and their advice about checking ingredient lists sounds pretty sound to me. (That said, dogs are more able to digest grains than cats so some points don't apply as much to cats as to dogs!)

In any case, their assertion that it appears that only certain kinds of foods/ingredients are causing the problem sound far more solid, evidence-based, and reasoned to me than blanket advice from vets who say not to feed any grain-free food to cats or dogs.

Talien said:

A lot of wet food is junk too. You really have to look at ingredients and avoid anything with biproducts and anything plant based in the first 3 or so ingredients. Basically anything under $1 a can is probably not very good.

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Byproducts are simply unnamed organs. Cats eat it all. Byproducts are not a bad thing in cat food.

Likewise price doesn't dictate quality. I'd feed Fancy Feast Classic pates (which include byproducts) at less than a $1 a can before anything from most of the more expensive brands. At least with Fancy Feast Classic (none of their other lines are this species-appropriate), there was only one ingredient that I bristled at: guar gum. But look at the rest of the foods in the aisle, they have peas, pea protein, clay, cranberries, and that's just one of the more popular highly recommended brands.

daftcat75 said:

Byproducts are simply unnamed organs. Cats eat it all. Byproducts are not a bad thing in cat food.

Likewise price doesn't dictate quality. I'd feed Fancy Feast Classic pates (which include byproducts) at less than a $1 a can before anything from most of the more expensive brands. At least with Fancy Feast Classic (none of their other lines are this species-appropriate), there was only one ingredient that I bristled at: guar gum. But look at the rest of the foods in the aisle, they have peas, pea protein, clay, cranberries, and that's just one of the more popular highly recommended brands.

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True, there are always exceptions, but most of the less than $1 stuff is like Friskies, 9 lives, and store brands which are full of junk. But believe it or not some types of clay like Montmorillonite and Bentonite have shown to be beneficial, particularly for digestive health. It made me wonder when I first saw it in pet food ingredient lists so I did a bit of research and found some very interesting stuff.

By products I've read a lot of conflicting info about what it may or may not contain, but pretty consistently is said to be the stuff that was rejected from other foods like skin, intestines, and more gristly bits of meat. I guess it might just be me being picky but I'd rather spend a bit more and get something that has more actual meat and less unknown stuff. Then again I feed my Cats a raw diet so.....yeah, I'm definitely picky.

I'd feed Fancy Feast pate as part of his diet ... if he would eat it. My cat doesn't want anything to do with it. It's the first canned I tried when I weaned him off of dry. I even tried it again a couple days ago. No go. I buy a few cans and end up giving them to my son or feeding them to the strays. Wish he'd eat it. It could save me a few pennies.

Talien said:

True, there are always exceptions, but most of the less than $1 stuff is like Friskies, 9 lives, and store brands which are full of junk. But believe it or not some types of clay like Montmorillonite and Bentonite have shown to be beneficial, particularly for digestive health. It made me wonder when I first saw it in pet food ingredient lists so I did a bit of research and found some very interesting stuff.

By products I've read a lot of conflicting info about what it may or may not contain, but pretty consistently is said to be the stuff that was rejected from other foods like skin, intestines, and more gristly bits of meat. I guess it might just be me being picky but I'd rather spend a bit more and get something that has more actual meat and less unknown stuff. Then again I feed my Cats a raw diet so.....yeah, I'm definitely picky.

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AAFCO definition of meat byproducts:

Meat By-Products – is the non-rendered, clean parts, other than meat, derived from slaughtered mammals. It includes, but is not limited to lungs, spleen, kidneys, brain, livers, blood, bone, partially defatted low temperature fatty tissue, & stomachs & intestines freed of their contents. It does not include hair, horns, teeth & hoofs. It shall be suitable for use in animal food.
What is the Legal Definition of a Meat By-Product in Cat Foods? | petMD

Organs are required (and often preferred) in a cat's diet. So while I would like to see named organs like liver and heart, I don't bristle at byproducts.

Clay can hinder nutrient absorption and constipate cats. I'd rather additives like this be left up to the cat guardian to include or not include. But Instinct also includes peas, pea protein, and cranberries in their recipe. I hope to never clean up another pile of cranberry tinged cat vomit again. If I see cranberries in the ingredients, I start to question whether they are serious about feline nutrition or just extrapolating from human nutrition.

I'm so glad you posted the byproducts definition, daftcat75 ! I don't have a problem with byproducts, either, and lots of the elements of byproducts -- blood, bone, lungs, and so on -- are used in food far, far fancier than Fancy Feast, including plenty of pricey commercial raw foods.

I'm with daftcat75 on preferring to feed byproducts in foods like Fancy Feast (or Sheba, which I also feed once a week) over anything that contains peas. Or other legumes. Or potatoes. Byproducts are a part of a cat's natural diet but those vegetables are not.

Side note to thank daftcat75 for the timely reminder about the clay and constipation, something I'd forgotten!

Low carb vs grain free is really the bottom line.

I'm not 100% anti grains. In fact, I'd prefer something with meat ingredients and rice over something with peas, as the peas have a lot more protein and artificially boost the protein content in the food.

Grain foods are all Jasmine could eat for the last 6 months of her life. So I think they have their place.

That being said, I do not feed any grain foods now, but I also feed almost all wet, and feed a very small amount of low carb dry foods (Wysong Epigen 90 is Lydia's current favorite).