Cbd Oil: Anyone Else Have Concerns?

Hi Everyone. Lately, I've been seeing many people tout the benefits of CBD oil. This seems to be the hot new cure-all for any and all ailments in both humans and animals.

Among my concerns is that there have been few well controlled scientific studies done regarding this product, proving the risks and benefits of CBD oil. In addition to these concerns, there does not seem to be any way for the consumer to determine the concentration of the active ingredient in various brands of CBD oil, making it impossible to determine how much is being ingested by the patient. Furthermore, how does anyone know if these products do in fact, contain CBD oil and do not contain other ingredients that are harmful? Who is providing oversight in the manufacture of this product?

As I understand it, only one form of this oil has been approved by the FDA. It is called Epidiolex, and is approved only for control of seizures in humans.

As a former health care professional, I've seen some disastrous and tragic results of relying on fad remedies, which had no scientific evidence of being safe or effective. I worry about the health and safety of pets who are being given these products.

Hello there! You have every right to be concerned about the use of CBD oil - not just in cats, but humans as well. I have ABSOLUTELY no experience with this from either species perspective, so I am merely responding to you to keep your post from getting too far down on the list. I have seen multiple threads on this site about the use of CBD oil, so you can either do a search (do you know how?) to see what others are saying who have used it, or wait for a while to get responses. Sometimes, it just takes members hours/days to be able to log on and read through posts so that they can respond.

What, may I ask, is your interest in this regarding your cat?

I have been researching this as well for my kitty who has chronic sinus issues, sneezing with discharge, and other chronic issues. She is under the care of a veterinarian, but I get tired of giving her antibiotics frequently. I found this article on a cat site and found it helpful.

CBD Oil for Cats — What It Is, What It Isn't & How It Works | Catster

Disclaimer: I live in California and marijuana is legal here. Follow all your local laws. While CBD oil on it's own is legal in all of America this is an international site. Everything I say is my personal opinion based on my experiences and research. Make sure to do your own before trying any holistic treatment and consult with your vet when possible.

This will be long so going to break it up.

Your Questions/Concerns:

• Since it was illegal until recently everywhere and remains illegal in several areas there is little hard research into it. There are some preliminary studies that are promising and people have been using it medicinally for long enough for me to be comfortable with using it. I haven't heard very many overdose or negative stories and when you dig into most of those they are paid for by the anti-marijuana camp. If I remember right it's been used medicinally since the 1830s (probably earlier but that's undocumented) so it is more an old folks remedy then new trend really. It only got an illegal title because of prejudice and racism if we really want to boil it down. In the early 1900s it was targeted because Texas police claimed it was driving dangerous Mexican behaviors. I've also heard that in some areas people claimed it made white women want to sleep with black men. Real stupid reasons if they didn't go after beer at the same time.
• Consumer determining concentration - This is where me being in California comes into play. I get my CBD oil from a dispensary. In order to be sold at a dispensary it has to go through quality control standards and periodic testing to confirm the labeling is accurate. But you can get CBD oil from reputable online companies that also do independent lab testing. It isn't government regulated or validated but you can call the labs if you want to check. When I did research into just CBD oil sources I only looked at ones that did lab testing. There were some that did it randomly and others did every batch. If they didn't test, I wouldn't consider it.
• CBD oil or others - This gets tricky because you are right. Some companies pass off hemp oil as CBD oil and they aren't technically the same. While they are very similar hemp oil may not have the same benefits as CBD because it is missing some chemical elements. This is why I buy dispensary as well and get one with a 20:1 THC:CBD ratio. There is also the risk of hemp being grown out of the country or processed out of the country. This is why, when I got a CBD lotion for my Mom, I looked for independent lab testing with links to the reports and verified they were different as well as confirming where it was grown and processed. Legally they companies are supposed to accurately disclose both of those. They, of course, could like which is why I do a lot of poking around on websites, checking reviews, checking for the terms and conditions that have different company names (which can be an indication of name changes to hide sorrid past or cheap sites), and checking that the pictures aren't copied on multiple websites (another sign it's a cheap copy or renamed). Consumer vigilance is key on this one.
• Oversight - they have to comply with agriculture standards when being grown. The rest varies by area. California has regulations on all levels if it is sold in a dispensary. Online sales are a little looser in my understanding which is where vigilance comes in again. Agriculture standards for growing and intake processing and I believe it is considered a supplement after that so the same as vitamins.

My Experience

When my boy, Link, was just 2.5 years old he broke his leg. He ended up breaking the rod that was put in out just two months later. After crate rest and several months he was healed but walked with a limp. I figured he would get arthritis at some point but I didn't realize how quickly. Last year, so he was 4.5 at this point, he had some issues and needed x-rays. They had a skeletal specialist check his xrays and there was a big note on "advance arthritis" on his chart after. They recommended I talk to my regular vet about options.

While marijuana is legal it is still illegal for vets to talk about it. I talked to my vet and she said my option was basically an anti inflammatory, pain medication and maybe down the line another drug. Thing is Link doesn't do well on pain medication or anti-inflammatory. In fact the whole reason he had x-rays was complications related to those triggering constipation. It would be a consistent fight to medicate him balance side effects with pain management and he does not respond well mentally to pain medications. Loopy is putting it mildly.

So I started looking at alternatives and possible holistic vets in my area. During this I came across an early study with dogs and mice saying that CBD had reduced inflammation and even reversed some arthritis. That it showed promise as an arthritis treatment. Of course, I had the same worries you've mentioned.

I researched my butt off. What it came down to is this; I could use the option that was somewhat questionable but relatively safe in existing studies or I could do the one that would leave him in a fog and need progressively stronger medications. He was only 4.5 years old at the time. How much worse would it get during his lifetime? He already held his leg out in a way I now realized was caused by pain (I thought it was a permanent damage to a joint or tendon from how he broke his leg). Yes, the treatment could cause problems but 10+ years of opioid use and pain management would surely cause just as much long term damage to him. I'd rather her had five good years with a treatment that has shown to reduce the inflammation and pain then ten years with a drug I knew already would cause him problems. So I went for it.

Within three weeks he was moving better. Within three months his limp was gone. Now six months out he only holds his leg a little odd when it is cold or time for his next dose.

Since most medical studies use CBD with THC I did go with that form. Lower THC, which is the hallucinagenic component, then what a human would take off course and well below fatal levels (he'd had to take 60 ml of his oil at once for that). I just was uneasy doing a CBD oil only since we don't understand enough to know how they interplay. Since then I think the CBD only is fine for physical only issues while THC is required for anything impacting mental; but that's my anecdotal conclusion from what I've been hearing since. I maintain the one I do because I've also started giving some to my female, Rocket, who has developed some anxiety and bullying behaviors. If I didn't give it to her we would be talking prozac but the CBD takes a little edge off.

For both my cats I measure with a marked syringe and record everything. They both are getting less than half what the manufacturer recommends for their weights. Since they are getting some THC I started out ultra low at just 0.05 ml once a day and worked up over three months. My 14 pound boy gets 0.1ml in the morning (so it doesn't impact his cognitive during the day) and 0.2ml at night. My 7 pound girl gets 0.1ml am and pm. The manufacturer recommends 0.5ml for both of them.

I don't use CBD or Marijuana for myself. I did tell my boss at work so he doesn't hear I was at the dispensary and bring me in for a random drug test (legal doesn't equal allowed in system at work). The dispensary people are super nice and I love online order and quick pick up. My Mom does use a CBD lotion after seeing how much it helped Link and she says it really helps her hands after a long week of gardening.

I, too, am interested in CBD oil. Coming from a lay person with experience through family traditions of using herbs, I understand your concerns. My great, great grandfather was a First Nations healer, his daughter was a curandera/huesera and my other great-grandmother was a Yaqui bruja. They knew the times of year and time of day to harvest plants and for what specific purposes. Some plants that were used for internal uses had to be harvested at only certain times. Preparations were also strictly controlled and timed using sacred songs. Other plants are easy to use and those are the ones that I was taught to use.
For example: If using Mormon Tea aka Desert Tea aka Squaw Tea (Ephedra Nevadensis) for a refreshing beverage, steeping in boiling water or as sun tea works great. But if used for medicinal purposes, it is slowly simmered, never boiled, for 3 times and all three simmerings are combined into one covered pot or large pitcher. Mormon Tea intended as medicine should be harvested from when the neighboring wild peach is in blossom until the first hard frost; beverage tea can be harvested at any time.
And mint (and similar leafed herbs such as lemon balm, catnip, lemon grass) harvested for medicine, are picked in early morning or late evening & night (avoiding the sun's warming the leaves); for beverage use, anytime is fine.
That said, I have seen CBD oil and cannabis use work wonders for people who are intolerant of the prescription medications for their problems. And I have heard of dogs and cats being helped as well. it is very important to note that cats are particularly susceptible to bad reactions to both medications and naturopathic remedies so owners must be diligent and well informed and make sure that their vet (or doctor) is equally so.

When I was in California taking care of my dad I researched medical marijuana left and right. He was very anti pharmaceutical anything including aspirin. Homeopathetic sure, fine ok. He was also anti drug. So I lied. I made butter and I made muffins, I told him a skunk got into the house, and told him they were homeopathic.

He had late stage prostrate cancer that went into his bones. Seeing him in that amount of pain made it easy to lie. Later with lots of videos and reading material he agreed to get a card. Which had to be done via the internet as he was bed bound. I could go on about how much it helped and the quality of his last months because of it. Literally for hours. But...

So yeah, I am a BIG fan of medical marijuana. I don’t smoke it personally, but for medical issues, it truly is amazing.

There is a difference in the strains. A big diffference in all of them. CBD is not a blanket cure all for everything under the sun. It is however great for joint issues and brain issues like epilepsy and Parkinson’s. Also anxiety. and yes a small, very small amount of THC is necessary for it to work properly.

As Kieka said, it is Very important to know your source and the product. Not all things called CBD are. Her post is spot on. Keep a log, approach it with caution, research research and know your source.

CBD won’t fix everything, but for some things it’s a miracle. You want to make sure the THC content (even though it is a minute amount ) is Indica and Not Sativa.

~ Here is information from Consumer Labs . Many CBD oils do not contain therapeutic amounts of the active ingredient.

The AVMA web site has info, mainly for vets, about the use of CBD products in pets.

https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/Reference/Pages/Cannabis-Use-Pets.aspx
https://news.vin.com/apputil/image/handler.ashx?docid=8473679

Most vets will not recommend a product that is not FDA approved and are cautious about any supplement use. A lot of pet owners will use CBD products anyways and vets aren't really sure how to handle the issue if a pet has a reaction to the product.

More people are treating their pets with marijuana — and veterinarians aren’t sure quite how to handle it - The Boston Globe

It's a gray area that's best approached with caution, IMO.

Hey there!
Just thought I'd chime in, as I've had experiences with CBD.

I started doing research when we brought in CBD oil for pets at my work. At the time, I had 3 special needs cats. Oscar was in Kidney failure, had IBD, Hyperthyroidism and heart issues. Banjo had severe osteoarthritis in his remaining back leg and Sassy has neurological issues.

I decided to try it out on both boys. For Banjo, I felt like it wasn't doing what I had hoped for. However, for Oscar, it made him feel so much better. He felt less pain and was just more comfortable. He also took it quite well orally, which was surprising. Now, I am thinking of using it for my girl Sassy, in hopes it helps with her tremors as her neurological issues have only gotten worse.

I also use CBD oil for myself. I personally love the patches as they are higher concentration and really help with my anxiety.

So yes, I completely understand why you would be concerned. I'm still not 100% sure it's the right thing to use for not only for myself, but for my pets as well. But I see a difference and I see how it made my sweet old man feel. And I'm happy I used CBD oil with Oscar, as he couldn't take Meloxicam due to his heart and kidney failure. And the CBD helped with his pain. So for that, I am grateful I had CBD. I'm sure it made him more comfortable during the last few months of his life.

FeebysOwner said:

What, may I ask, is your interest in this regarding your cat?

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Thankfully, my cats are currently in good health and don't have any issues where I would consider giving them CBD oil.

My interest in CBD oil comes from a desire to know more about the benefits, risks, and side effects of using this product. I'm also concerned about the welfare of both humans and animals taking a product that we don't know much about, and which does not have many regulations regarding its manufacture.

This forum is a great place to share ideas and information on this and many other health related matters.





Please understand that I am not against using CBD oil for relief from various health issues, I only wish to know more about it and have it used properly and safely.

nado said:

Please understand that I am not against using CBD oil for relief from various health issues, I only wish to know more about it and have it used properly and safely.

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~ Yes - good idea to research before we need to use something medicinal.

Absolutely concur with all above Tis good to be informed prior to leaping.

One of the videos I had my father watch was with Dr Sanja Guypta ( spelling may be off....the dr on cnn back in the day ) called Weed. There was a follow up, maybe more. The first one focuses on a few of the better known stories about CBD. It’s available on you tube.

Humans have different structures than pets, but we are all mammals. If anything it’s a good video for getting a sense that CBD isn’t the devils weed.

Coming back to this thread. I forgot to mention the CBD oil company I use if I am not getting from a dispensary (which is the lotion my Mom uses). They just posted this blog which fit with this discussion and is one of the main reasons I use this company, The Real Value of Our QR Code.

Kieka said:

Coming back to this thread. I forgot to mention the CBD oil company I use if I am not getting from a dispensary (which is the lotion my Mom uses). They just posted this blog which fit with this discussion and is one of the main reasons I use this company, The Real Value of Our QR Code.

Click to expand...

Kieka,
This question relates to your earlier post in this thread. Here you mention the site that has the CBD oil that states it has "ZERO THC". You stated that you chose a product that had THC in it.

My cat has anxiety issues and has recently been losing her appetite. The Appetite may due to the fact that a month ago I put her on a Hypoallergenic food, which she ate good at first , but does not seem to eat like she used to. I believe she would probably eat the older food, as my other cats in the house still eat it. I have to work at keeping her away from that food. Yesterday I got my order of three other Hypoallergenic foods, to see it she will take better to one of them. I don't want to go back to the old food as she had developed a need to scratch and over groom herself. Of course I am hoping this is not a precursor to some other issue. I have had her at the vet a number of times and they really did not find much other than some yeast on her ears. This has since been cleaned up and frankly, the issue of reduced eating started after she was on the ointment, ear drops, and Gabapentin for 8 days. On that day she began to vomit one evening (clear and foamy). They gave her Cerenia that night. and she stopped. She still drinks, pees, and does smaller amount of poop that she use to.
So all that to say that I was wanting to look into CBD to get her anxiety down and hopefully increase her appetite. I also have another older cat that has severe arthritis in her elbows and I think it would benefit her also. She takes Gabapentin everyday.
Can you tell me what the product is that you use for your cats and where it can be purchased. I realize there may be a problem getting it since I am in Indiana, and may not be able to have it shipped here, but I would like to understand what my options are. My guess is that my vet will not even entertain the idea of CBD.

Thanks for the very informative post by the way. I feel the same way you did with looking at the risks versus the possible benefits.
Thanks,
Dan

Medemt said:

Can you tell me what the product is that you use for your cats and where it can be purchased. I realize there may be a problem getting it since I am in Indiana, and may not be able to have it shipped here, but I would like to understand what my options are.

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I use VetCBD. The products with THC are the ones that are regulated and you can only get by going to a physical dispensary if it is legal where you are. There is a whole registration and ID verification process when you go in a dispensary; but they are super nice and relaxed in my experience. I am in California and the product I use is only available in California because of federal laws. I don't think Indiana is close to allowing marijuana legally.

You'd probably have to stick with the imbue or a similar product that would be legal where you are. Those ones can be shipped to any state since they don't have the THC.

Hopefully if you choose to go that route it works for you. I don't have any doubts about any physical problems being helped. Anxiety might not as much but it doesn't hurt to try. It does sound like your cat has been through a lot lately so maybe just time will help her.

Kieka said:

Coming back to this thread. I forgot to mention the CBD oil company I use if I am not getting from a dispensary (which is the lotion my Mom uses). They just posted this blog which fit with this discussion and is one of the main reasons I use this company, The Real Value of Our QR Code.

Click to expand...

That's the best use of a QR code I think I have seen.

I was thinking that canned food should have a QR code that takes people to a particular batch's home page. On that page, customers can report bad batches or lookup if other customers have reported a bad batch. I had a watery batch of Rawz turkey that I'd still be frustrating myself and Krista with if it weren't for these forums. I should be able to scan the can and learn that from the rawz website directly.

Medemt said:

Kieka,
This question relates to your earlier post in this thread. Here you mention the site that has the CBD oil that states it has "ZERO THC". You stated that you chose a product that had THC in it.

My cat has anxiety issues and has recently been losing her appetite. The Appetite may due to the fact that a month ago I put her on a Hypoallergenic food, which she ate good at first , but does not seem to eat like she used to. I believe she would probably eat the older food, as my other cats in the house still eat it. I have to work at keeping her away from that food. Yesterday I got my order of three other Hypoallergenic foods, to see it she will take better to one of them. I don't want to go back to the old food as she had developed a need to scratch and over groom herself. Of course I am hoping this is not a precursor to some other issue. I have had her at the vet a number of times and they really did not find much other than some yeast on her ears. This has since been cleaned up and frankly, the issue of reduced eating started after she was on the ointment, ear drops, and Gabapentin for 8 days. On that day she began to vomit one evening (clear and foamy). They gave her Cerenia that night. and she stopped. She still drinks, pees, and does smaller amount of poop that she use to.
So all that to say that I was wanting to look into CBD to get her anxiety down and hopefully increase her appetite. I also have another older cat that has severe arthritis in her elbows and I think it would benefit her also. She takes Gabapentin everyday.
Can you tell me what the product is that you use for your cats and where it can be purchased. I realize there may be a problem getting it since I am in Indiana, and may not be able to have it shipped here, but I would like to understand what my options are. My guess is that my vet will not even entertain the idea of CBD.

Thanks for the very informative post by the way. I feel the same way you did with looking at the risks versus the possible benefits.
Thanks,
Dan

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Cerenia can suppress many a cat's appetite. This is indeed why I chose to gave my Krista CBD (VetCBD from California dispensaries/can't be shipped/sorry!) She needed to eat to survive and thrive through pancreatitis but she also needed anti-nausea/anti-emesis (suppress barfing) and Cerenia was destroying her appetite. The downside of this is that she had to go through pancreatitis on weaker pain relief. I couldn't mix another pain medication with CBD as that would ask the liver to work harder and it could result in dangerous interactions. And that's the real danger of dosing CBD yourself without a vet or medical professional to consult. I definitely would not mix CBD and gabapentin. Any other medications, I would consult Dr Google if your vet can't comment.

Yeast in the ears can be the result of an allergic process, likely the same one that's causing the vomiting, itching, overgrooming, etc. If she's stable on the hypoallergenic food, keep her on that. But look for a way to make it more appealing to her. Allergy processes are usually protein-based. So one way you can spruce up the hypoallergenic hockey puck is to mix in a pump of fish oil (salmon oil or wild pollack oil.) For every 5.5 oz can, I mix in one pump of fish oil. That keeps Krista finishing plates and gives her some arthritis relief. You may want to try this before CBD. If she's been vomiting for awhile, and I assume she has because you took her to the vet, then you should give the hypoallergenic diet long enough to help her heal.

Has she had an ultrasound? That would tell you whether this is a simple allergy or the start of something else like you put it. It is possible she doesn't feel much like eating if she's having inflammation in the gut, pancreas, or liver. You can ask the vet about an appetite stimulant. If you suspect she is nauseated too, I would pair them. I would feel horrible about giving an appetite stimulant without anti-nausea if she is indeed nauseated (lip licking/sitting in front of the food, looking at it but not eating.)

Other members have had great success with GlycoFlex or Cosequin/Dasequin products for arthritis. I actually saw a profound improvement in Krista in one week alone. But it also gave her so much tummy distress and souped her poops that it wasn't something we could keep doing. Salmon oil has made them a little softer but nothing like the GlycoFlex/Cosequin.

As for the anxiety, have you made a separate post for that? There could be a real reason for it that CBD wouldn't help with. She's in a multi-cat household. Is she bullied? Does she get along with the other cats? Are there enough litter boxes?

The reason I would caution against CBD is because it could take you down a false road of stubborn hope, and a lonely one too. A lot fewer people have experience with CBD than more traditional treatments. The longer you explore the CBD path, the longer she could be on a better understood and probably more effective treatment.