Need Advice On How To Progress Cat Introduction! New Cat, 2 Resident Cats

radarlove413 · Mar 7, 2019

pearl99 said:
I did try Prozac on a previous cat, for aggressio, on the vet's advice. I saw some small effect within the first week, and it was about 6 weeks to see the full effect. He did calm down, slept more. There was less aggression.
It did not solve my problem- my situation turned out to be unsolvable after a year of working with them and worse than what you are going through (sympathize with you!)- but the Prozac DID make a difference (just not enough for my two to be livable)- and Prozac kitty has a new home as the only cat and is happy as a clam.
The two I have now (in the avatar) get along. Waffles (older grey and white) will still make sure Mooshoo (black and white) knows he's boss with a smack or a swat, and it took about 4-5 months to settle.
I'm no expert but sounds like yours have made progress!

Thank you! Do you mind me asking for more information about what happened with your situation that didn't work out? I'm glad that your current pair are getting along now, that's so good to hear!

Things are still chugging along at our house. Dunlop decided to be a giant douche and lay/nap on the bed beside the litterbox Cocoa uses if he's feeling like being a super jerk. But, he will let Cocoa walk around if he's lying in the tower sometimes! He's been feeling a bit more crabby and charging at Cocoa or chasing him, but nothing super threatening. Last night, I heard yowling upstairs, and a minute later Dunlop came to find me with some of his torn out fur caught in his chest, so it seems like Cocoa is standing up for himself! (Don't worry, nobody actually gets hurt or breaks skin during these - our boys have always been fur rippers though)

Donatello will actually let Cocoa walk within 4 ft away from him on the floor, which is a huge breakthrough! There's also been a few times where Cocoa will be on the counter and Don and him will meow at each other in a friendly way!

RufusGizmo · Mar 7, 2019

I would take it as slow as you can. we introduced two older cats to two kittens while also moving into a new home. it was such a nightmare, it is now a year and half later, and finally good. it took a really long time, sometimes it just is like that

radarlove413 · Mar 7, 2019

RufusGizmo said:
I would take it as slow as you can. we introduced two older cats to two kittens while also moving into a new home. it was such a nightmare, it is now a year and half later, and finally good. it took a really long time, sometimes it just is like that

Thank you, and we for sure are. We took about 6 weeks to let them out together full time. Cocoa was getting extremely stressed being confined, so he's honestly happier with his vertical kitchen territory now. (The residents have never gone up there or attacked him in that "territory"). Our home is big enough that they can avoid each other most of the day, so I've been doing lots of shared treats/mealtimes, play sessions, and pets and love. Now, Dunlop will usually hang out downstairs while Cocoa races and zooms around, then will let him know when he's using the upstairs, and then Cocoa will nap until Dunlop goes back downstairs, so they seem to be on their way to coexisting.

radarlove413 · Mar 11, 2019

Things are going a bit better. There have been a few tussels, but Dunlop is basically acting like his old self. Donatello is having an IBD flareup so he's been cranky with Cocoa, but nothing too bad. Last night, my husband yelled at me to come upstairs because Don had jumped up onto our dining room hutch where Cocoa was sleeping (he was expecting a throwdown haha), but Don just stared at him and jumped down. He's taken to sitting in our camper bus cloth carrier in the dining room and watching Cocoa, since Cocoa forgets he's in there after a while and will walk around like normal. Sometimes, he'll walk up to Cocoa and friendly meow at him, but Cocoa looks like "Dude what? You just tried to beat me up a few ours ago" and will run to his safe place in the kitchen. Do we understand it? Nope, but that's okay.

Now that my husband is basically worshipping Dunlop like the god he is with solo play and pets, he's been a bit more tolerant of Cocoa. A few times, he's just sat across the room, loafed and glared aggressively at him instead of immediately chasing. (Dunlop is extremely bonded with my husband and doesn't really like me one way or the other... haha).

Since isolating Cocoa doesn't help our residents feel more comfortable around him, they're still free range all the time. We actually haven't had to step in to seperate them for two weeks now! Just some fur flying here or there, but they seem to be settling down. They respect the kitchen counters and cabinets as Cocoa's territory, and allow Cocoa free range of the upstairs most of the time while they're sleeping.

Example: Yesterday, Cocoa got so into the laser pointer that he didn't realize Dunlop came upstairs and tried to run and pounce on him. He stopped about a foot away from Dunlop. Immediately Dunlop got puffy fur everywhere and Cocoa realized he messed up. BUT, instead of going after Cocoa, he let Cocoa retreat into the kitchen and did a bit of growling. Since Cocoa is a big baby and immediately forgets about danger, he jumped on the table a minute later and was getting into a catnip sock. Dunlop snuck up behind him, staring intently (no puffy fur)... and only smacked him on the butt a few times instead of yowling and grabbing fur!

rubysmama · Mar 12, 2019

radarlove413 said:
Things are going a bit better.

Let me cautiously say "Yay". :clap2:

radarlove413 said:
and only smacked him on the butt a few times instead of yowling and grabbing fur!

LOL. That wouldn't normally sound like a good thing, but I guess in your cats' situation, it really is progress.

Fingers crossed things continue to improve. :crossfingers:

radarlove413 · Mar 17, 2019

Thanks! Everyone is being a bit more assertive, so it's been interesting. We got another litter box and put it in the dining room, which helps most times. I've had to stop Dunlop from doing the "Creep and pounce" a few times when Cocoa is in it, but our little crabby tabby can really only guard one litter box at a time.

Donatello and Cocoa have been meowing at each other a bit. Don has tolerated Cocoa on the floor at the same time as him sometimes, which is good. I also witnessed them touch noses once! Then Cocoa got freaked out, backed away, and Don got offended and they were back to some swatting.

Dunlop is still chasing, but it's less vicious and he even seems to be getting bored of it. He gets down low, and kind-of quietly creeps and then will swat a bit. Or, he'll look at Cocoa, twitch his tail, and Cocoa will retreat. Sometimes they just stare at each other, cocoa on the counters and Dunlop on the floor, swat at each other a few times quietly, and then one will leave.

Cocoa, we are figuring out, is also a drama queen. He yelps and yowls every time a paw touches him, which seems to set off or offend the residents haha. We are still trying to build up his confidence more with play so he won't retreat as much.

pearl99 · Mar 18, 2019

radarlove413 said:
Thank you! Do you mind me asking for more information about what happened with your situation that didn't work out? I'm glad that your current pair are getting along now, that's so good to hear!

Things are still chugging along at our house. Dunlop decided to be a giant douche and lay/nap on the bed beside the litterbox Cocoa uses if he's feeling like being a super jerk. But, he will let Cocoa walk around if he's lying in the tower sometimes! He's been feeling a bit more crabby and charging at Cocoa or chasing him, but nothing super threatening. Last night, I heard yowling upstairs, and a minute later Dunlop came to find me with some of his torn out fur caught in his chest, so it seems like Cocoa is standing up for himself! (Don't worry, nobody actually gets hurt or breaks skin during these - our boys have always been fur rippers though)

Donatello will actually let Cocoa walk within 4 ft away from him on the floor, which is a huge breakthrough! There's also been a few times where Cocoa will be on the counter and Don and him will meow at each other in a friendly way!

For sure can give more info. I have been on vacation and just got back. It was a matter of Waffles, my resident cat, and his personality. He just would not "fight" back and stand ground to give the other a message and a lesson to just leave him alone. Waffles was a previous feral or at least semi-feral and I believe previous experience played a role in his submissiveness. I adopted him when he was 2 years old.
Waffles was basically stuck under the coffee table, if he had ventured to come out from a corner in the basement- could not use the litter box or eat, or play, or get up on my lap, or go look out a window. New Kitty was very tuned in to him and would camp out by the coffee table, and a move from Waffles even in super stealth mode would get Milo going. Fur flying at first, blood was drawn, bites, wounds. No amount of intros or separation- then Prozac- was working beyond a certain point.
That's the reason for my feeling they deserved normal lives and not permanent separation with each having 24 hours of basically being alone, alternating. Both are super lap cats.
In my avatar- is Waffles (gray and white) and Mooshoo (my trying again- black and white) who get along just fine- Mooshoo lets Waffles be boss, and he is fine with another cat who doesn't attack him, and it works great.

lovemall · Mar 18, 2019

I have been reading these messages about resident kitties and new kitty. I am in the same situation so thought I would share my story. I, too, have tried everything. My 2 residents, Button and Maggie, are 9 and 10 years old, have never been socialized, and live on a 24 acre ranch and are indoor/outdoor kitties. (All kitties are female) The new kitty, my friend named her Lucky Kitty cause she is lucky she found our barn, showed up in Oct, was able to make friends with her in Nov, invited into our garage in Dec, and into the house in Jan. Lucky Kitty is about one or two years old. Took her to vet, she is healthy, and we believed spayed as she has never displayed any 'season behavior'. No chip, tatoo, or scar that can be found. She does have a little nick on the side of her left ear. Uses litter boxes, scratch pads, and kitty trees. She has been somebodys baby. Adorable kitty. Residents have no interest in accepting her and continually fffftttt, hisssss and growl at her. I think my Resident Kitties feel very imposed upon.This is ALL their property and intends to keep it that way. Lucky Kitty tends to avoid them but sometimes they get too close and I hear ear shattering screeching from resident kitties. I run to intercept. So far no blood or fur but very angry Residents. Luckily I have a fairly big house with a finished basement so there is plenty of room, getaways, and cat trees through out the house. I also have two rooms that I can partition off to separate them, as I have done in the past. At night, we take turns sharing our bedroom with Residents, then Lucky Kitty so we don't have any screeching waking us up at wee hours of the night. Have plug in Feliways, Jackson Galaxy homeopathic solutions, safe room, gates, and separation. After reading these posts, they are now smelling like vanilla.......... Just had an altercation, vanilla not working yet. Lucky Kitty sleeping in Scratch Lounge and Maggie sneaking up on her and one of them screeched. Button right behind Maggie. Lucky Kitty is mostly respectful but when she is attacked, she will defend herself, I put Maggie in gated room and Button in glassed in room. Lucky Kitty relaxing after sneak attack. All took place in our Great Room. After reading all the posts, I am getting the understanding when introducing adult kitties, it takes a long time. Soooo.....Those of us in this predicament must sign up for a long term project. I feel so bad for my Residents because they feel like their territory is being stolen from them, and I feel bad for Lucky Kitty because she just needs a home. I love this site and the attitude of all the kitty owners. We just Love Em All. :redheartpump:

Kind of a long post but I wanted everyone to know the situation. Thanks

radarlove413 · Mar 18, 2019

pearl99 said:
For sure can give more info. I have been on vacation and just got back. It was a matter of Waffles, my resident cat, and his personality. He just would not "fight" back and stand ground to give the other a message and a lesson to just leave him alone. Waffles was a previous feral or at least semi-feral and I believe previous experience played a role in his submissiveness. I adopted him when he was 2 years old.
Waffles was basically stuck under the coffee table, if he had ventured to come out from a corner in the basement- could not use the litter box or eat, or play, or get up on my lap, or go look out a window. New Kitty was very tuned in to him and would camp out by the coffee table, and a move from Waffles even in super stealth mode would get Milo going. Fur flying at first, blood was drawn, bites, wounds. No amount of intros or separation- then Prozac- was working beyond a certain point.
That's the reason for my feeling they deserved normal lives and not permanent separation with each having 24 hours of basically being alone, alternating. Both are super lap cats.
In my avatar- is Waffles (gray and white) and Mooshoo (my trying again- black and white) who get along just fine- Mooshoo lets Waffles be boss, and he is fine with another cat who doesn't attack him, and it works great.

Thank you, the info is appreciated! I'm sorry that you had to go through that tough time, and it sounds like you made the best decision. I know with us, it wouldn't be fair for us to separate ours either, so if things did take a turn for the worse we would re-home Cocoa. I'm glad that your current pairing gets along great! I wish there was a magic answer for intros haha

radarlove413 · Mar 18, 2019

lovemall said:
I have been reading these messages about resident kitties and new kitty. I am in the same situation so thought I would share my story. I, too, have tried everything. My 2 residents, Button and Maggie, are 9 and 10 years old, have never been socialized, and live on a 24 acre ranch and are indoor/outdoor kitties. (All kitties are female) The new kitty, my friend named her Lucky Kitty cause she is lucky she found our barn, showed up in Oct, was able to make friends with her in Nov, invited into our garage in Dec, and into the house in Jan. Lucky Kitty is about one or two years old. Took her to vet, she is healthy, and we believed spayed as she has never displayed any 'season behavior'. No chip, tatoo, or scar that can be found. She does have a little nick on the side of her left ear. Uses litter boxes, scratch pads, and kitty trees. She has been somebodys baby. Adorable kitty. Residents have no interest in accepting her and continually fffftttt, hisssss and growl at her. I think my Resident Kitties feel very imposed upon.This is ALL their property and intends to keep it that way. Lucky Kitty tends to avoid them but sometimes they get too close and I hear ear shattering screeching from resident kitties. I run to intercept. So far no blood or fur but very angry Residents. Luckily I have a fairly big house with a finished basement so there is plenty of room, getaways, and cat trees through out the house. I also have two rooms that I can partition off to separate them, as I have done in the past. At night, we take turns sharing our bedroom with Residents, then Lucky Kitty so we don't have any screeching waking us up at wee hours of the night. Have plug in Feliways, Jackson Galaxy homeopathic solutions, safe room, gates, and separation. After reading these posts, they are now smelling like vanilla.......... Just had an altercation, vanilla not working yet. Lucky Kitty sleeping in Scratch Lounge and Maggie sneaking up on her and one of them screeched. Button right behind Maggie. Lucky Kitty is mostly respectful but when she is attacked, she will defend herself, I put Maggie in gated room and Button in glassed in room. Lucky Kitty relaxing after sneak attack. All took place in our Great Room. After reading all the posts, I am getting the understanding when introducing adult kitties, it takes a long time. Soooo.....Those of us in this predicament must sign up for a long term project. I feel so bad for my Residents because they feel like their territory is being stolen from them, and I feel bad for Lucky Kitty because she just needs a home. I love this site and the attitude of all the kitty owners. We just Love Em All. Kind of a long post but I wanted everyone to know the situation. Thanks

No problem! It's definitely stressful. The way I've told myself - when we aren't home, Cocoa has a solid 15-20 hours of not really being bothered. Our incidents happen when we are home mostly, because everyone wants to be around us, but they don't wanna be around each other... haha. The good sign is that there isn't any blood or fur. It's them warning each other, rather than trying to hurt/maim/kill... from what I understand, anyway. When ours get it out of their system, the residents will usually go sleep and then allow Cocoa to do cat stuff, so we are trying to be patient.

pearl99 · Mar 18, 2019

radarlove413 said:
Thank you, the info is appreciated! I'm sorry that you had to go through that tough time, and it sounds like you made the best decision. I know with us, it wouldn't be fair for us to separate ours either, so if things did take a turn for the worse we would re-home Cocoa. I'm glad that your current pairing gets along great! I wish there was a magic answer for intros haha

Yes magic would be nice. I knew Waffles had it in him since when my daughter lived with me she got a kitty, and with time it was good. Mooshoo is so funny, she has bit by bit worked on Waffles to accept her and read his signals. They will do a little grooming of each other and were kind of sharing a toy today. It's been 8 months total. They are such wonderful creatures.

lovemall · Mar 19, 2019

Yes, the same with us. Except, it is me that they want to be around so when I am gone, they all seem to behave themselves. My husband says 'they are fine until you come home.' I am the one that feeds, play, and cuddles with them. However, Lucky Kitty has an interesting behavior that is new to me. She will let me pick her up and walk around with her, but as soon as I sit down she is gone. Refuses to sit with me. Of course, I don't know her history so it makes me wonder if it isn't related to something that happened to her in her previous life. And yet she looks to me for protection. If she wants to walk around the house she will look to me to walk with her so the Residents don't threaten her. She is very smart. She feels very safe with me because she knows I won't let them attack her if I am present. The confrontations are always in another area of the house and luckily only about once a day. Sometime twice a day, sometimes not at all. Back to long term commitment. Right now I am sitting on the bed, Lucky Kitty is sleeping at the end of the bed and Maggies is sleeping by my shoulder. First time they have been on the bed at the same time. I am playing cat anti anxiety music on youtube. Button actually ate breakfast 2 feet from Lucky Kitty this morning. She usually won't eat until LK is finished and leaves the 'table'. Still dabbing them with vanilla, under the chin, between the shoulders, and base of tail 3 times a day. Only second day. I still have hopes they will start to smell the same soon. :hearthrob:

I posted Button in my avatar because it was so cute to see her exploring the Chewy Box. LK is actually a beautiful long hair Calico and Maggie is a long hair Tortie. All are rescue kitties.

lovemall · Mar 20, 2019

The avatar kitty is LK. Things are about the same. Interestingly, when they are all outside, they will have a stare down and some growling but that is about it. Maggie and Button still letting the young whippersnapper they are in control and own everything!!!! LK just wants to be friends and the look on her face is such bewilderment because she doesn't understand why they don't like her. I have heard her growl back at them but she is just trying to hold her own. Wondering how Cocoa is doing. Are the residents being kinder?

radarlove413 · Mar 29, 2019

Hey! So here’s an update:

They were tolerating each other slightly better until a few days ago. (Aside from some midnight screeching and a litter box ambush, but no lasting damage). Don has relaxed around Cocoa a lot, but he spooked him a few days ago. Cocoa kept running away from him to hiding spots, which completely set Dunlop backwards because he got super scared by the commotion. Dunlop tried to attack Donatello since he couldn’t get at Cocoa. Dunlop is still tolerating Cocoa for about a minute on the floor with him, but his mood is very depressed and anxious again. Lots of play therapy and solo time with each cat! Cocoa, ever resilient, is happy as ever. He seems confused about Dunlop’s crabbiness more than anything.

I did take Dunlop to the vet today, to double rule out that anything medical was making him extra crabby. He’s in perfect physical shape, which is great. We are weaning him off of clomicalm and starting topical Prozac, since his aggression hasn’t improved much. (Donatello, on the other hand, is basically his best self on the stuff!). I was worried about post-vet aggression, so they gave him a mild sedative and anti anxiety medication for the day. Weirdly enough, even though he was stoned, he walked up to Cocoa on the floor and actually meowed at him with no aggression, so hey?

Husband is also worried about Cocoa’s long term mental health, and Dunlop’s since he’s not the playful guy he used to be. We’re going to give Prozac the full run, but we also realize if nothing improves over the next few months, it’s probably better for Cocoa to re-home him with another family member.

lovemall · Mar 29, 2019

Good to hear from you Radarlove. Tis a long term commitment. I have made several changes with my 3. I took down the gates, stopped giving them time outs when they get growly, stopped making them all wait to eat together (I now feed them when they tell me they are hungry), spend alone time with each one (seems very important), open all the doors at night (the 2 residents sleep in the bedroom and LK sleeps on top of the Kitchen cabinets, by choice) I have offered the bedroom to LK but she doesn't care to stay in it, hide treats on different levels of the cat trees and have lots of scratch pads, one in the bedroom, one in the mudroom, one in the dining room 3 in the great room plus the ones on the cat trees. They love the cardboard ones. They even sleep on them. I think scratchers are very important, they seem to take some of their aggression out when scratching. When my husband and I walk around outside (we have 24 acres to roam around) all three kitties follow us. LK always respects the 2 residents places but like Cocoa, she seems confused as to why the 2 residents are so crabby to her. Maggie is doing better with LK than Button. However, since I am giving Button more alone time, she is getting better. 2 days and 2 nights with NO growling, hissing, or ffftttting. Maggie is the Matriarch, but she and Button snarl at each other when LK isn't around to snarl at. I guess they seem to take it out on each other that their space is being invaded. While LK is respectful of the 2 residents, she will snarl back at times, which is fine with me. It tells me she will not be intimidated. NO fur or blood. Just warnings and threats. I still have the problem with LK that she will not sit on my lap. I can carry her around for a short time and then she wants down and as soon as I sit down she is flailing to get off. Don't know if her history has anything to do with that but she doesn't hesitate to rub against our legs and everything in the house to claim it. Luckily no spraying from any of them. She races through the door from the outside like her tail is on fire and then turns around to see that we will follow her. She doesn't really know how to play either. I don't think she has been taught. The 2 residents seem to think play is beneath them since they are 9 and 10 and are now 'mature'. So not much playing going on. Right now I am in the bedroom with Button in my lap and Maggie sleeping at the foot. LK is outside lurking and stalking. All in all, things are better but I still keep an eye on the 2 residents so they don't think its ok to confront LK. Good Luck with your 3, be strong and patient.

lovemall · Mar 30, 2019

These are places LK likes to sleep. I think she feels safe.

rubysmama · Mar 30, 2019

Thanks for the update

radarlove413 . I really have no more thoughts or suggestions, but did want to say how lucky your cats are to have you and your husband who care so very much about them.

radarlove413 · Mar 30, 2019

lovemall said:
Good to hear from you Radarlove. Tis a long term commitment. I have made several changes with my 3. I took down the gates, stopped giving them time outs when they get growly, stopped making them all wait to eat together (I now feed them when they tell me they are hungry), spend alone time with each one (seems very important), open all the doors at night (the 2 residents sleep in the bedroom and LK sleeps on top of the Kitchen cabinets, by choice) I have offered the bedroom to LK but she doesn't care to stay in it, hide treats on different levels of the cat trees and have lots of scratch pads, one in the bedroom, one in the mudroom, one in the dining room 3 in the great room plus the ones on the cat trees. They love the cardboard ones. They even sleep on them. I think scratchers are very important, they seem to take some of their aggression out when scratching. When my husband and I walk around outside (we have 24 acres to roam around) all three kitties follow us. LK always respects the 2 residents places but like Cocoa, she seems confused as to why the 2 residents are so crabby to her. Maggie is doing better with LK than Button. However, since I am giving Button more alone time, she is getting better. 2 days and 2 nights with NO growling, hissing, or ffftttting. Maggie is the Matriarch, but she and Button snarl at each other when LK isn't around to snarl at. I guess they seem to take it out on each other that their space is being invaded. While LK is respectful of the 2 residents, she will snarl back at times, which is fine with me. It tells me she will not be intimidated. NO fur or blood. Just warnings and threats. I still have the problem with LK that she will not sit on my lap. I can carry her around for a short time and then she wants down and as soon as I sit down she is flailing to get off. Don't know if her history has anything to do with that but she doesn't hesitate to rub against our legs and everything in the house to claim it. Luckily no spraying from any of them. She races through the door from the outside like her tail is on fire and then turns around to see that we will follow her. She doesn't really know how to play either. I don't think she has been taught. The 2 residents seem to think play is beneath them since they are 9 and 10 and are now 'mature'. So not much playing going on. Right now I am in the bedroom with Button in my lap and Maggie sleeping at the foot. LK is outside lurking and stalking. All in all, things are better but I still keep an eye on the 2 residents so they don't think its ok to confront LK. Good Luck with your 3, be strong and patient.

Thank you, we definitely are! I'm glad your cats are doing better. Some cats just aren't into being lap cats I've found too, Dunlop never will, and Donatello has to be in the right room. And nice cat furniture!

radarlove413 · Mar 30, 2019

rubysmama said:
Thanks for the update radarlove413 . I really have no more thoughts or suggestions, but did want to say how lucky your cats are to have you and your husband who care so very much about them.

Thank you! This has been such a process haha. It'll be interesting to see if Dunlop's behavior gets worse as we wean him off the old medication over the next few weeks, or if it improves. He's definitely knocked a tiny bit of Cocoa's confidence this week, so keeping an eye on all cats.

lovemall · Mar 30, 2019

I think I have forgotten to mention, we are both retired so we have the time to spend with them. I think that helps a lot. I agree that your kitties are lucky to have you and your husband that care so much about them. I wish everyone would care as much as we do. The people on this website sure do. The cat tree is new for LK because I wanted something she could 'own'. I got it big enough so hopefully one day they will all be able to share it. Hope Little Cocoa makes friends with your other 2. I am hoping Maggie and Button will come to accept LK. I had 3 nights and 3 days before a confrontation. They all 3 ended up in the same area and no one wanted to give. So some yowling and screeching took place this morning but no injuries. Again, I intervened. Not out of the woods yet. Hope you stay connected and let us know how things go.

Need Advice On How To Progress Cat Introduction! New Cat, 2 Resident Cats

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Pearl, my labrador who loved cats. RIP.

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Pearl, my labrador who loved cats. RIP.

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