Is This Breeder Legit?

Hi I am new to the site. I hope that I posted this in the right section

I have always owned rescues, but would like to change things up and get a Siamese cat.

I have tried to research what to look for in a breeder. This site has been very helpful. but I am afraid of making a mistake, especially because there is a significant amount of money involved. I don't want to end up with a sick cat.. My last rescue Charlie lived until he was 18

I came across a listing on kijiji the breeder is about 3 hours away from me. I think everything checks out on the website, but I was hoping that people with experience could help me out before I contact them.

https://www.siameezers-cattery.com

Any thoughts at all would be appreciated.

Hi! Welcome!!
I must say, I do like that they're sending a blanket home to help with transitioning.

Hang in there, there will be other more knowledgeable members weighing in for you

Thank you.

I am sorry to be a bother but I have another question.. on the listing it says that seal point makes and blue and/or seal point females are expected in the litter

Mom is seal point and dad is blue point.. how is it possible for them to be sure there will be no blue point boys if the dad is blue point? That doesn't make any sense to me.. Shouldn't they wait until the kittens are born to say what their colors are?

Perhaps they intend to keep any blue point males for themselves.

If the parents are seal and blue, all of the kittens will be seal or blue. There's no other way it could turn out.

Willowy said:

Perhaps they intend to keep any blue point males for themselves.

If the parents are seal and blue, all of the kittens will be seal or blue. There's no other way it could turn out.

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Actually, there are two other ways that the kittens could, "turn out." While the dilution allele (i.e. the Dense pigment gene - D/d - which encodes for melanophilin) is indeed an autosomal recessive, it's represented with some prolificity in Siamese, and the chance that a Seal Point by Blue Point cross could hence produce either Chocolate Points or Lilac Points is a very real possibility.
.

I agree, that's a little odd. I would ask the breeder. Perhaps it is a relatively new breeder who is still learning about color genetics? "Past litters" only goes back to 2017... maybe they haven't had any blue point males born yet

I don't see any red flags on this web site. It is good that they do genetic testing, and that they don't release kittens too early. Of course, you can't tell everything from a web site or Facebook page. If you are only 3 hours' drive from the breeder, you might be able to go visit and check out the breeder in person. But in any case, you should be able to go pick up your kitten in person, and at that time you can get a sense of what the breeder's adult cats are like, and how the kittens are raised.

I see they have a 72 hour return policy. That allows you to make a vet appointment just after you pick up your kitten, and have your own vet check the kitten to be sure that it is healthy without any issues.

For most breeds, you would expect kittens to be registered in CFA or TICA (or in Canada, CCA-AFC), and serious hobby breeders also show their cats. For old-fashioned "Traditional" or "Classic" Siamese, however, some breeders only register in TCA, as this breeder does. Cats with only TCA registration are not eligible to be registered or shown in CFA or TICA shows (except as household pets). If you are looking for a pet kitten, this is probably not an issue for you, just something to be aware of.

Thank you all for your replies.

I emailed her about the colors, and she said that the last litter the boys were all seal point so she was expecting much of the same with this litter.

I ask how long she has been breeding for and she said about a year... do you think that would be an issue?

Being relatively new at breeding is not necessarily a concern, sometimes new breeders are very good, especially if they have good mentors. You could ask what other breeder(s) she works with.

It would be funny if her new litter turns out to be a bunch of blue point males

If mom is seal point carrying blue, and dad is blue point, you would expect on average to get half blue points and half seal points. These genes are not sex linked, so the blue points are equally likely to be males or females.

As 1CatOverTheLine says, the chocolate gene also exists in Siamese. If both parents happen to carry the recessive gene for chocolate, you would expect the following color distribution on average: 37.5% seal point, 37.5% blue point, 12.5% chocolate point, 12.5% lilac point.

Very interesting

Do cats always carry other colors that you can't see? How do you know if a cat carries a different color?

Here are some ways to know that a cat is carrying a recessive gene:

• If the cat has produced kittens of the recessive color, you know it is carrying that gene. For example, blue point is recessive to seal point. If a seal point Siamese has produced a blue point kitten in any previous litter, you know it is carrying blue.
• If the cat has a parent with the recessive color, you know it is carrying that gene. For example, if a seal point Siamese has one blue point and one seal point parent, it must carry blue.
• Also, genetic testing is available for most colors, and is very useful.

But how can you know that a cat is NOT carrying a recessive gene?

• Genetic testing is really the only way to find out for sure that a cat is NOT carrying a specific recessive gene. Many years ago, before we had genetic testing, breeders would sometimes do "test matings" to get information about whether a cat was a carrier, but even "test matings" are not certain. Nowadays we can do genetic tests for most colors, hair types etc.
• If both parents of a cat have been tested and are not carriers of a specific gene, you don't have to test the offspring as you know they cannot be carriers either.

Interesting thank you.

So interesting thing... received a email from the breeder this morning...

Hi Shaun,

I want to apologize for my earlier statements as they have been explained to me to be very much incorrect. I said that I expected all males to be seal and females to be blue/ seal, which based on the information I had at the time (incorrect information from the internet) and our cats previous litter, I thought was correct, but have since learned is not and blue point males are likely.

As I stated in my pervious email I am a relatively new breeder, and am constantly learning or searching for new information to expand my knowledge. And although I am confident in the health and temperament of the kittens I produce, I must admit that my depth of knowledge in cat color genetics was lacking. But I have since been able to find a mentor willing to share their vast knowledge on the subject, so I won't make this (embarrassing) mistake again.

I apologize again, and hope that this doesn't affect your interest in one of our kittens.

If you have any questions or concerns please don't hesitate to contact me.

Sincerely,

I like that she was honest about her mistake bt how worried should I be that she was incorrect in the first place?
I also noticed that she updated her website and said that it is required for all adopters to come to her house before the date of pick up.... that's a good sign right? What do you think????
Im afraid of making a mistake......

Shmac.1979 said:

she updated her website and said that it is required for all adopters to come to her house before the date of pick up

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She didn't have that requirement at all before? I think this is a good thing, it means she's intent on further "vetting" potential adopters.

She is talking with other people about what to do/how to do it and is on a steep learning curve, but catching on fast

I emailed her about the change in the website because it also now says that she doesnt accepted deposits.. that you have to come and meet the kitten and then she will save the kitten you choose for you until pick up. This is weird isn't it? Most of the breeders I have looked at require $100- $250 deposit to hold a kitten.

It is not commonly done, but I don't think it is weird, it sounds like she wants to meet buyers to make sure her kittens get the best possible homes. Good breeders want to ensure a good match between kittens and homes.

Her reply:

Hi Shaun,

Adopters coming for a meet and greet has always been my practice. This allows adopters to see our home, get an idea of how the kittens have been raised and also gives me a chance to get to know them a little bit

I have updated the website to reflect that policy, because although most people are eager to come for a visit, I have also unfortunately had people coming from far distances that only wanted to come on the pick up day, which I am not comfortable with. So now people know before hand that it is something that is expected, so there should be no more issues

As for not accepting deposits, there are two reasons why I don't do this;
1. Quite often you hear about people giving breeders a deposit (without seeing the kitten in person) only to find out that the kitten is not what they thought, the kitten is sick, or they realize after, that they don't agree with the breeders breeding practices (ie. Caged cats, dirty living quarters ect). Then they are stuck with the decision on whether or not to lose the deposit, or take a kitten they are not comfortable with that could potentially be sick. I don't think that is fair and would never want to put one of our adopters in that situation.

2. People lives can change in an instant. I would rather an adopter pull out of the adoption at the last minute, if they are unable to properly care for the kitten (and I can find some one else who can), then to take the kitten any way because the have already given a significant amount of money to me and are afraid to lose the deposit.

I understand that this isn't common practice amongst most breeders, but every kitten that is born in our household becomes our family, and all I want is the best not only for them, but for the people that are giving them their forever home.

Sincerely
Leeann

I've never dealt with a breeder myself, so I can't offer any advice on that, but -- this person sounds wonderful. She seems empathetic, honest, and willing to learn.