Possible Middening... Help!

Maudy

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Jul 30, 2018
Messages
6
Purraise
4
Hi there,
I’m desperately looking for advice/help with our little Bengal and a behavioural issue that’s been ongoing for almost a year.

Around last October/November she began pooping on the suite in the living room. Initially we think she only did it if anyone came round to the house which is why I think it’s a territorial thing however now she’s doing it daily.

She will come over to any visitor and demand cuddles and purr away then she’ll nip off and poop on the suite (sometimes while looking straight at us).
She makes no attempt to cover her poops either in or out of the tray.
She isn’t avoiding her trays, she’s still going in them.
Now she’s just going where she shouldn’t whenever she feels like it. I think it’s become a habit that’s started with her showing visitors the house is hers...

We’re absolutely at our wits end with it as we’re now cleaning constantly and nothing we’ve tried has worked.

We have been chatting to the breeder who’s been great but works long shifts so regular communication is a little difficult and I now feel like I’m just nagging the poor guy to death! When we have talked he’s also a bit stumped on what to do.

She’s just over a year old.
Neutered.
Fit and healthy (checked out by the vet regularly due to what’s been going on).
Eats and drinks well.
Loves people (she instantly sits on visitors knees and has a cuddle).
She has 3 large open litter trays.
Constant access to fresh water.
Is given loads of attention.

Stuff we’ve tried.
Cleaning with multiple brands of enzyme cleaners (we’ve spent a fortune on all the professional brands that have been recommended on various sites/by vets/breeders etc).
Different litter.
Different litter trays.
Confinement to one room (we had no luck with that but won’t be able to try it again due to the noise she makes driving our neighbour crazy and keeping her little one awake all night).
Feliway diffusers.
Calming tablets.
Covering the areas where she poops (she just finds a new area to do it).

We’re unable to stop her entering the room it happens in as other than the bedrooms and the bathroom the whole house is open plan and confining her to one room isn’t an option again.

Currently we’re living with all the blinds/curtains closed so she can’t see any possible threats outside, we’re not allowing anyone in to the house and we’re scrubbing the suite and anywhere else she goes multiple times a day. It’s no way to live for her or us and it’s been this way for what feels like an eternity.

I’ve looked for advice online but nothing fits as there have been no changes, she’s been neutered, she’s healthy etc and the advice offered doesn’t seem to work (mostly it seems to be relevant to cats not using their trays or where something stressful has happened). We’ve had her since a kitten and we know nothing has happened with regards to anyone visiting as we’ve been present the whole time.

Our vet is also stumped. He thinks she may be “middening” but the advice given for that hasn’t worked either.

We’re absolutely desperate so any suggestions would be hugely appreciated!
 

Mamanyt1953

Rules my home with an iron paw
Staff Member
Forum Helper
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
31,173
Purraise
67,765
Location
North Carolina
Um. Well, middening is certainly a possiblility. Since you say that she is confident and likes people, this would seem more from dominance than from stress, although I could be wrong about that. Stress can come from all sorts of strange sources. I'm a bit at a loss, although you could try giving her chamomile tea. It relaxes and calms with out sedating, and will reduce stress, and MIGHT help with dominance. Use the bags from the grocery store, so you KNOW you have German chamomile (not toxic for cats in proper doses) rather than English chamomile (toxic to cats). Brew a cup and administer...let me think...normally I suggest 1-3 teaspoonfuls, but she's a Bengal, so she's a big girl. Go with 1-2 tablespoonfuls 3 times a day, via syringe.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3

Maudy

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Jul 30, 2018
Messages
6
Purraise
4
Hey, thanks so much for your reply - I’ll definitely give that a try!
She doesn’t seem stressed but cats seem to be pretty complex creatures so it’s entirely possible I’m not seeing it.

If it is dominance related would there be anything we can do so she doesn’t feel she has to show the house belongs to her all the time?

She’s such a lovely girl, and good as gold other than this issue. She’s super affectionate and loves playing etc so we’d really love to fix whatywe’re doing wrong, she’s the perfect kitty otherwise! :)
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5

Maudy

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Jul 30, 2018
Messages
6
Purraise
4
Hi! We use the wood pellet litter which our breeder recommended - we’ve stuck with it and she does use the trays but I haven’t checked if it’s unscented (I don’t smell it but it maybe she can?).

This evening I think we may have had a little break through... I sat with her and watched her like a hawk for a good while. She was wandering around chirping and playing then her behaviour completely changed. She seemed a little spooked and uncomfortable. She was staring at the window and lowered herself down a little. It’s pretty dark outside but out the window I could see 3 cats in the field behind the house. Not long after they began fighting and she took off out the room.
I’m wondering if this has been the problem all along and we just didn’t notice that she’s upset by cats outside the house as we were so focused on it being something inside the house. Maybe she poops on things when we have visitors as they’ve come from outside so they could be a threat even though she’ll still approach them for cuddles...
I’m possibly barking up the wrong tree entirely but at this point I’m willling to go down any route that means she’ll be happy and secure.
If this is the problem what would be the best course of action? Cover our windows with some film maybe and try the calming tea?
Huge thanks for all the advice so far, it’s been a great help!
 

danteshuman

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Mar 27, 2017
Messages
5,030
Purraise
6,077
Location
California
Is she harness trained? The reason I ask is that way she could poop outside if she is insecure.

I would also try a second litterbox just like the one she uses, but with a very fine unscented litter. It might be worth a try.

Lastly I would have the vet check her out (and her poo) just in case it is medical.
:hangin:
I hope a solution is found soon:crossfingers:
 

Starblaize

TCS Member
Young Cat
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Messages
27
Purraise
34
Hi! We use the wood pellet litter which our breeder recommended - we’ve stuck with it and she does use the trays but I haven’t checked if it’s unscented (I don’t smell it but it maybe she can?).

This evening I think we may have had a little break through... I sat with her and watched her like a hawk for a good while. She was wandering around chirping and playing then her behaviour completely changed. She seemed a little spooked and uncomfortable. She was staring at the window and lowered herself down a little. It’s pretty dark outside but out the window I could see 3 cats in the field behind the house. Not long after they began fighting and she took off out the room.
I’m wondering if this has been the problem all along and we just didn’t notice that she’s upset by cats outside the house as we were so focused on it being something inside the house. Maybe she poops on things when we have visitors as they’ve come from outside so they could be a threat even though she’ll still approach them for cuddles...
I’m possibly barking up the wrong tree entirely but at this point I’m willling to go down any route that means she’ll be happy and secure.
If this is the problem what would be the best course of action? Cover our windows with some film maybe and try the calming tea?
Huge thanks for all the advice so far, it’s been a great help!
This was also a big issue with us. Bengals are very territorial (I will say ours did age out of some of this behavior). The window cling can help (they have designs that still let light in but will obscure the view. I would also recommend leaving the radio on during the day. Bengals are very people orientated cats and anything that can help them feel there are people around is a huge help when you guys need to be away from home. Pick a news or talk station where they mostly talk in calm conversational tones. We used NPR a lot during the day when we were away. And use a white noise machine or a fan to help muffle the sound of outdoor cats at night.
Also their life span is only 12-16 years on average, so around age 8 or 9, I would start checking their kidney functions at the vet during their annual checkup.
 

tarasgirl06

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Sep 19, 2006
Messages
24,708
Purraise
64,891
Location
Glendale, CATifornia
I've actually heard that some cats will eliminate on the bed of someone to show they love them, because in cats' culture, this is one way they have to show this! (Yeah, I know. It sounds weird. But that's what I heard.)
Also, cats' preference in their natural state is for sandy substrate. I can't imagine a cat liking those pellets, crystals, scented litters, etc. We have always used SoPhresh unscented scoopable. It has the texture they prefer, and no horrible fake scent. It has worked very well for many, many cats in our family.
 

basschick

TCS Member
Alpha Cat
Joined
Aug 7, 2016
Messages
603
Purraise
487
when we used the wood pellet litter, it hurt both our cats feet and they stopped using the box. the same thing happened with a couple other highly rated natural cat litters.

you say you've used a variety of litters - i assume you've tried dr elsey's?
 

aradasky

TCS Member
Adult Cat
Joined
Sep 15, 2014
Messages
136
Purraise
115
Seeing and sensing the cats outdoors may be the problem or a big part of it. You say you have three litter boxes for her, is one right next to or even on the furniture she uses? If she starts using it instead of your furniture, you may be able to move it out of the room eventually. As for covering your windows, a lot of cats love to look out. Maybe she is one who would love the outside world invisible?
 

Mamanyt1953

Rules my home with an iron paw
Staff Member
Forum Helper
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
31,173
Purraise
67,765
Location
North Carolina
I have a sneaking feeling that seeing those cats may be a large part of this. There are directional sprinklers that are motion activated available. A few of those along your property line should quickly convince wandering strays, ferals and neighborhood pets that your yard is NOT an attractive destination. NO cat like a thorough soaking!
 

tarasgirl06

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Sep 19, 2006
Messages
24,708
Purraise
64,891
Location
Glendale, CATifornia
I have a sneaking feeling that seeing those cats may be a large part of this. There are directional sprinklers that are motion activated available. A few of those along your property line should quickly convince wandering strays, ferals and neighborhood pets that your yard is NOT an attractive destination. NO cat like a thorough soaking!
As I frequently say to my three: "Who likes a wet cat? Least of all, a wet cat!" :angrycat:
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14

Maudy

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Jul 30, 2018
Messages
6
Purraise
4
Hi folks! Thanks so much for all the advice, I’d been reading it all but couldn’t remember my password so hadn’t logged in to comment.
So, we cleaned the living daylights out of all the areas she’s been pooping and all was well until we went away for 48 hours.
We had the extra litter trays, a friend she knows well stayed over, the diffuser was plugged in, the camomile tablets were given for days before we left... you name it, we did it and yup, whilst we were away she destroyed the suite again.
We left the blinds closed (they were kept closed the whole time we were away by our friend) and did everything we could think of but she’s back at it.
We’ve cleaned as best we can but 2 big chairs are gonna have to be binned. No amount of cleaning is gonna work this time.
I’m guessing she is upset at us going away, however due to work we have no option at all.
At a bit of a loss now. Also, we’ve lost our house/cat sitter as cleaning up poop multiple times a day wasn’t part of the deal. :(
Have spoken to the breeder/vets/rescue folks all for advice and we’ve tried it all several times.
Wondering if we aren’t a good home for her and am devastated that she’s feeling the need to do this. I can’t give up my job so have no clue what to do next! :(
 

Jem

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Aug 6, 2018
Messages
5,573
Purraise
11,246
Hi!, Are you still thinking that it could be territorial due to cats outside? If so, I would try to harness train her as someone else mentioned, and take her for a walk around your yard so she can put her scent outside.
Keep in mind that just because she may not SEE the cats outside, if they are marking or simply urinating/pooping in your yard she will smell it.

We had a territorial cat, and we did put film on some of our widows, but only the "ground level" ones. Our cat still loved to look outside at the birds and such, so what we did was cover only the wide open areas. For ex: with our large patio doors, we only covered the bottom 2 feet. That way he did not feel "exposed" to the outside, and things did not seem as "threatening" when he was walking around the floor, but for a high perch where he was "more secure" he could still look out the window. (I hope I'm explaining myself OK. :headscratch: just ask if not)
And my next trick, will sound very unusual, but it worked for us to keep cats and dogs out of our yard that used our flower beds as litter boxes and marked our basement windows and entrance, that totally peeved our cats, where they would then start to mark in the house to protect their territory. :angrywoman:

You will have to do this in the cover of night so you don't give your neighbors a fright, lol! :jawdrop: But start drinking......and then mark (pee your own pee) around the perimeter of your home, any and all "possible kitty litters" and the ground under all "ground level" windows and entrances. It will help deter "smaller animals than you" to come around, and the smell will be yours so hopefully your cat, knowing it's your scent, will not feel the need to poop everywhere if in fact she is middening.

I know this sounds kinda......:doh2:, and if you think I'm crazy, that's OK too!:runaround: But it worked for us, and we got that tip from my co-worker, who did it and worked for her too. As I said this is to keep neighborhood cats and strays away, but it may help your cat in the long run.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16

Maudy

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Jul 30, 2018
Messages
6
Purraise
4
Hi Jem!
Thanks so much for the help!
I’m really not sure if it’s cats outside or because we went away overnight... I’m basically at a complete loss. She uses the litter trays happily enough, never been a problem there... she seems happy in herself other than this.
The front of the house looks out on to a big field, it’s a really large area where lots of folk walk dogs/kids play and other kitties climb the trees.
The back of our house has a yard where lots of other cats visit, it would be easy enough for us to “mark” that area (had heard of this before with dogs and it seemed to work there so will give that a go ). I can do it at the front of our house too but I don’t think I’ll manage to do the whole field at the front

If it’s not the other kitties outside and it’s because we had to go away for work we may have to look at a cattery as we have to go away for a whole week soon however I’m worried that this will stress her out even more!
 

Wile

Opener of cans
Alpha Cat
Joined
Aug 22, 2018
Messages
555
Purraise
648
Location
Canada
Hi Maudy,
I'm really sorry about the issues you are having with your girl. I do have a territorial bengal boy who started spraying in response to other cats visiting my back door in the middle of the night. I feel your pain. I was only recently able to get his spraying under control by blocking his sight line out of windows in the room causing the problem, placing a litterbox beside the point of entry, and switching the regular litterbox to a cat attract litter. No spraying for the past month. Yay!

I'm not sure what your setup is like, but if it is possible I would recommend setting up an outdoor enclosure for your girl with a litter box outside, and a cat door through a window so she can let herself in/out. I've had a lot of success with this setup because it seems to shift the unwanted territorial behaviour outside.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!
 

Mamanyt1953

Rules my home with an iron paw
Staff Member
Forum Helper
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
31,173
Purraise
67,765
Location
North Carolina
If you have neighborhood cats outside, the motion sensor air cans work very well. They are a bit pricey, but it doesn't take but one or two times for those pesky strays to learn and go elsewhere.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20

Maudy

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Jul 30, 2018
Messages
6
Purraise
4
Hi! Unfortunately the outside cats are in a public field area to the front of the house...
we’ve been home for a week now and have come down stairs this morning to 2 more poops on the chair in the living room... all blinds closed, 4 litter trays all cleaned daily (she does use them so I’m convinced it’s not the litter) and one tray right next to the chair she’s pooped on (which she has peed in). Nothing unusual occurred in the last 48 hours yet it’s still happened.
I’d like to build an outside run but the house has to be sold in the next few months so I’m not sure that a) I can afford it (especially now I have to buy a new suite) and b) I wonder if it will cause an issue with the sale...
Just saw the post with the link, will take a look at that! :)
Thanks so much for putting up with all my moaning! Am at a complete loss as to why she’s unhappy but all advice/suggestions are hugely appreciated! ❤
 
Top