Pregnant Feral In My Basement

marmoset

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Out of the two females I trapped last weekend one was able to have a spay abort and the other was too feral for the vet and her assistant to handle. She bit the tech through the safety glove and bounced around the med unit urinating on everything. They couldn't even get a weight on her. She looks big so we presume she is pregnant and pretty far along.

We are not against spay/ aborts- lets get that out there right away. In this case though she might be too far along for my vet to want to do it. The option we had was to sedate her- which could harm the kittens so we opted not to do it because if she is very close to delivering then my vet would not want to abort but if sedated and one of them died inside her, as she is not handleable we'd really have no way to help her survive infection. The vet wasn't even able to palpate her and verify that she was pregnant.

She is not handleable but I can sit next to her and as long as I don't make fast movements and talk to her as I approach she is pretty calm. I can even go inside her cage with my hands and get pretty close- reaching for food and water dishes that are about 5 inches away and she stays calm. But she will not sniff my hand, she will blink though and that's the most trusting she is with anyone.

So right now I have a very wide looking cat in a small dog crate in the basement. The bigger crate will be available as soon as the cat that's recovering from her spay/ abort is returned to her trap location. We will be keeping her until we know she's fully recovered and the weather has passed. Somehow I'll have to move the pregnant queen in there. I have a birthing box set up for her in the small cage but I feel that it is too small. She takes up almost the whole box.

I am worried because this will be the first time a cat has kittens under my supervision in about 30 years. I'm anxious about the delivery- I don't know if she'll let me step in to assist if needed. In my younger years I've been around for 4 births. One I had to step in to remove a breech kitten and another litter the mother wouldn't nurse so they were bottle-fed. I really have to hope she can handle the whole thing on her own. She's not touchable. I don't see her allowing me to pick up her kittens to weight them and make sure they are ok.

I also don't love the idea of having her birth in a dog crate. The crate is for a big dog- so I think the bars are too far apart to be safe for kittens- even for older weaned kittens. I don't have a spare bathroom for her so she has to be in the basement in order to keep her away from our resident pets. She needs to be enclosed because there is a big space under the doorway so the cats can play footsie under the door.

I've read the Homeowner Veterinary Manual and the articles here. I have a bunch of questions but first please tell me what you would do to handle it if you have a queen that is feral or semi-feral that you will care for until her kittens are weaned.
 

StefanZ

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Interesting. But I think everything will go OK! Especielly as she does accept your near presence, your handling things around her. As long as you dont touch her...

Its my guess she will allow you to handle the kittens too. Do it respectfully, so she sees clearly you arent harming the kittens. Weigh where she can see you and them. Have a nice fleece cloth on the scale, so its not chilly and kittens began to scream...

An IR-warming lamp is nice for giving warmth.

When she sees kittens are OK with you, she will probably copy with the situation... Its one of the marvels of rescuers.

Its not sure you will manage to foster her, but the kittens will probably be fostered without big difficulties.

BUT if she doesnt allow you to help out with the kittens, so she wont. So be it, Her fate is hers. She and the kittens will anyways have it better than alone outside, forced to find shelter, food, water, fend for ants, fleas, predators and mean boys.

Actually, this is an echo from my beginning as an online advisor waaay back in time. A fostering home got a high preg untouchable ferale. And desperately asked: I can let her be there in her corner, but what do I do if she gets real difficulties when birthing? I did gave a similiar answer as above: the situation now is anyways much better than outside. Even if you cant help actively...Several days later we got the report: Momma allowed her to be near during the delivery. She allowed her to help with the kitten care... This was a big eye-opener for me... And this picture has repeated many many times, being practically the rule.

OK. The crates. The small crate now is no real problem. In nature she will anyways pick a smallish hidey hole. So she really feels more comfortable and safe now. And the crates arent really her prison, they are her defence and safety devices... :)

When the kittens arrive, she may need the bigger crate. You can put up cushions or rolled up blankets around the crate, so the kittens cant crawle out too early. When they are 3+ weeks, they will anyways try to spread over the whole place - to mommas great annoyance and despair. :)

You had began exellently to try and earn her trust. Talking sweet and low, blinking eyes. You can yawn at her, and stretch on yourself, as friendly cats do when greeting a pal.
You can have calming, relaxing music on. Almost any may do, but classic harp music is perhaps the best.

A Feliway adapter may help too. Not necessary, most fosterers manage without, but it helps sometimes.

Do NOT put up radio with human voices "to let her be accustomed". This you do later on in the fostering process. HERE it will only stress her. Calm music is better. But use much your own friendly voice. You can also sing if you want and can. Or sit nearby and read aloud. Hey, its good to lie down even.... I know, do lie down in foster position near the crate as if you are hurt and need help. The chance is good she will come near and try to give comfort. marmoset marmoset
 

rubysmama

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Just wanted to post and wish you luck with your very pregnant, very wild feral cat. :heartshape:

And also post a link to a thread where a stray (not feral) mother cat gave birth to, and has been raising, kittens in a crate on someone's front porch. There's pictures, so it may be helpful to compare with your crate.
Help! Have To Keep Pregnant Stray Safe In Outside Crate
 
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marmoset

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Thank you both very much. The pictures in link that rubysmama provided makes me feel a lot better. That set up is what we we planning on having her in. Here are pictures of what she is in now. It's 31" long, 19" wide. The bars are 1 1/2" apart


The cardboard box is only a little big bigger than her. When she stretches out her feet they have to go up and over the side of the box. Her food and water bowls and everything is very cramped in. I have to change her bowls out multiple times a day to keep litter out of it. I'm very lucky she lets me do that. Sometimes she hisses but so far she has not struck me (the vet had a different experience and she is on bite quarantine now). Mostly she hisses when I use the mini dustpan to sweep out her cage. Maybe the sweeping sound resembles hissing. Otherwise I can put my hand fairly close if it's holding a water or food bowl!

The cage we were planning on having her in is going to be one like this one we have borrowed that is housing our other TNR'd female. This crate is going to be returned to its owner this week. The one we will use is currently housing kittens that are going to leave mid week and it's a tiny bit bigger. I just need to sanitize it and bring it down to the basement for this cat.


The bars on all the cages are about 1 1/2 inches apart. I've been worrying that the kittens might get their heads stuck in the bars.

Right now she's using a mix of Dr. Elsey's Cat Attract litter and yesterday's news. That's why her litter box looks like it has small pellets in it. It's a clean box- just a mix of litter types. I will go buy some non-clumping litter to switch her to.

I'm going to try to switch her to a kitten food. Right now she's on a mix of a grain free duck that we feed our own cats and buy in big quantities, moderately priced kitten food and low quality dry that was donated to me and is added in in a very small quantity. It is a good luring food- all the cats love it even though I equate it with fast food for humans:( . So we use it only for the colony cats again in very small quantities. She hasn't shown enthusiasm for any wet food but I haven't tried non-poultry yet because that is all we feed our indoor and rescue cats. I've tried every variety from what I keep on hand in kitten food and adult food but she's just not loved any of them.

As far as taming down she's come along nicely for a cat that is semi-feral. She does not want to sniff my hand yet but she has rolled over and extended her back leg towards me placing it within inches of me and groomed herself with me sitting on just the other side of the cage. To take the pictures I removed part of the blanketing over the cage and kind of had to hover over her and she remained fairly calm. Last weekend she hissed if I moved the blankets on her end of the crate. Normally I'd also never hover over an untamed cat or even take pictures at close range. I get the feeling she was owned at some point many years ago but I've looked for lost cat ads in my area going back to 2008 and haven't seen any within 50 miles of one looking like her. I know she was in our neighborhood when we moved in 3 years ago. She was an occasional cat and not one that we considered part of the colony. When I trapped her I was trying to get what I believe is her daughter who is a colony member (the mother of the kittens we trapped in november). I really was hoping she was just a stray so she could go to the no-kill shelter and be adopted out, but she is clearly not just a scared stray but a semi-feral/ mostly feral cat. Usually I can get cats to sniff me once they do the slow blinking but so far she's holding out. I'm using all the tricks I have- pretending to gradually fall asleep, stretch out, groom myself and look everywhere but directly at her unless I'm slow blinking but she's not yielding. She won't take wet food off a spoon taped to a stick- which has worked very good for me in the past with other cats. It's all down to patience now.
 

rubysmama

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She's absolutely beautiful. And it sounds like she's adjusting to being around you. Like StefanZ StefanZ mentioned she may even let you come closer once she's in labour, and may let you help with the kittens once they're born.

I, myself, don't have any personal experience with ferals, or pregnant cats, so everything I know I've learned from reading these threads. But it is possible that after you have her inside for months, she might become socialized enough to adopt out. Especially if she was once a house pet.
Good luck. Keep us updated on her progress. :catlove:
 

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You can make kitten safe by having some tape on inside. Perhaps silver tape duct.

Her coloring is interesting. Prob a point of some sort. Has she blue eyes? If not its prob point of the burmese type.

Her childs wont be points unless the father too carries the gene. They will prob be black as she is.
 

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Mama kitty will definitely need a bigger crate. It sounds like things are going well!
 
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She does have very lovely blue eyes. We always thought she looked like a himalayan type cat but now I'm not so sure because her face isn't flat. Up until last Saturday she wouldn't let me get that close to her. The litter we have right now had 3 black cats and one medium coated black and white cat one of the black ones has darker points with a lighter brown black midsection. I admit that I'm getting excited to see what her litter looks like.

I saw one cage online that where they had set up a cardboard and duct tape wall to prevent the kittens from the cage bars but one of my anxieties about keeping her crated for the birth and weaning is that I don't know how I'm going to keep things clean. At the shelter we clean every cage fully twice a day so I'm not used to leaving things dirty. Part of me worries that whatever goes in her setup is going to stay if she won't let me in there to move things around. I'm pretty certain that if I stuck my head and upper body in her cage right now I'd get clawed and bitten.

That said, she really is fairly calm most of the time. Trapping didn't seem very stressful on her in comparison to other cats. She went from the trap to the cage and seemed to get settled in right away. She was in the cage for two days before the vet came out to see her and the cat went nuts as they tried to get her into a carrier. She was worse in the van with biting, peeing, leaping- the vet said it was "pretty bad" and they wouldn't be able to examine her without a mild level of sedation. But she did say that she has plenty of clients that have cats needing the same so just in case we decided to keep her the vet let us know SHE could handle having the cat as a patient.

And honestly I am considering it, because with me she's not so aggressive (no biting or trying to scratch, no growling) she hisses at me every day but when we first brought her in she hissed loud and hunched back in a defensive posture, now she just gives me this short quiet hiss if my voice hasn't woken her from her sleep (she sleeps so deeply!) and I approach the cage.
 

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Set up her birthing cage with 2-3 layers of blankets, and with several layers of large, doggy pee pads on top.

After she delivers, you can try to remove the top pee pad or two by sliding it out from one end. That leaves clean bedding underneath. This can be done every 2-3 days or so for cleanliness.

And hopefully she will be calmer and allow you access without repercussions!
 
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marmoset

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I like the idea of using puppy pads. I think we are also going to thread cardboard strips between the bars to block the kittens. Hopefully we'll then just be able to pull them out and replace them as needed without having to put our hands too far into the cage.

She's real fat, barely moves, just wants to eat and sleep and she hisses a lot now.
 

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Her hissing may hint prelabor pains.

If not its a hormonal change making her more vary more defensive.
 
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I think it's hormonal. The kittens are still moving around and I think she's uncomfortable. She's ate a lot last night and pulled the fleece blankets into her litterbox and is lying there.

I'm not sure if I should switch her litter to the non-clumping clay or just leave it as the recycled newspaper pellets. I'm not thrilled with the kittens being born in either litter but I think that's what she has planned.

The box she moved out of was cardboard and really just big enough for her. I was worried it was too small but she's chosen the litter box that is even smaller.
 

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You need to get a box that is big enough for her to stretch out in when she nurses the kittens, even if she delivers them in something smaller.
 
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I'm trying. She keeps pulling the bedding out of the box and moving it to the smaller litter box after digging until the litter is all over the cage and the box is almost empty. Anytime I go in and clean she rearranges things. She clears out the litter box then uses it and then moves to the cardboard box where she has removed all the bedding. She's still eating ravenously so I hope she has a few days to figure things out. She's definitely in nesting mode. I'm trying to keep the litter box sanitized (I switch them out and disinfect them so there is always a clean one in the cage) so if she decides to deliver in there the kittens won't have any fecal particles or parasite eggs on them when born. I'm wondering if she wants to nest in the litter box because she likes the pellets. They would be absorbant and she can dig but then the kittens would be coated in in them after birth.

She is getting more hissy. She's ok with me changing out her litter, wiping out the cage, and changing food and water. I can put my hand very close to her but she does not like me moving the blanketing or approaching with anything clothlike- even a paper towel. At the same time she's softening when I sit next to the crate and just talk to her. She gets comfortable- stretches out, grooms, eats a few inches away from me and falls asleep.
 
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And birth! We got her into the bigger crate. She still has her small box that she's using. Hopefully she'll move them out to the bigger one soon. Now she is sleeping and we think there are 5 kittens in there somewhere:) We see mostly black blobs and a few white noses or legs.
 

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Congrats on the kittens. :bouquet: Hope she'll let you take some pictures. :camera:
 
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Things are not going smoothly. The momma is panting and the vet thinks she's still might be in labor. She says she's seen cats go days between delivering kittens. Unfortunately she's still unhandleable so if her condition worsens (if it's not labor) she will have to be sedated for ultrasound and testing. My vet can't make it out here until next week so it'd be a trip to the animal ER. It'll be next to impossible for us to get her in a crate too but we'd do it somehow. Still that'd be a long clinic visit too long for her to be away from the kittens that are just a day old now.

I guess I have to brush up on my bottle feeding knowledge just in case. They are far younger than any kittens I've had to bottle feed. I worry that the nipples that are sold are not tiny enough for these newborns. At least they are suckling well now and getting mom's antibodies. I truly hope the mom just gets through this so the kittens have better odds.
 
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I just ordered some KMR and a bottle kit and some miracle nipples that are smaller. It should all be here by this afternoon so if things go south at least I'm prepared. If I don't have to use them I can donate all of it to the shelter so another fosterer can use it if needed.
 
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She's spending more time away from the kittens now. They are in the box she chose to birth in but she's hanging outside the box panting. I'm trying to give her space and alone time so I'm only checking periodically. She might be just taking breaks and nursing inbetween. I saw her do it earlier- take a break, pant and then go nurse again. I'm just really worried. I phoned our regular vet office but only was able to leave a message with the receptionist. I'll have to wait until the vet gets back to me.

I still don't know if I'm freaking out over nothing or if I'm under-reacting. Our last option and most difficult and the one most risky for the newborns is to take the queen to the ER vet if by some miracle we can get her into a carrier. That could be 7/ 8/ 9 hours of wait time. Too long for the kittens to be without mom. The mobile vet I work with says they can be without mom for an hour or two if they are kept warm. The ER is never ever ever that quick. I've been there numerous times with shelter cats. It's usually an all day/ night affair because they work in high volume. I'm totally and completely overwhelmed with worry.
 

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marmoset marmoset

Take a deep breath. Try to relax!

Please give mom a dish of the KMR as soon as it arrives. It will help with the panting. She needs the calcium. Give her a dish a day.

Many cats pant a lot for a couple of days after giving birth.

If you do need to take mom to a vet, bring the kittens with you. Do not leave them home. They can be with mom except when she is being examined or treated. Bring feeding supplies with you.

Mom should be okay though. Her hormones are in high gear, and she’s just been through a lot.

Has your package arrived yet?

Here is a feeding video:

Syringe Feeding
 
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