Using Alnurtin + Calcium For Homemade/commercial Mix Diet

I bought mine from Hare Today...

Here is the package instructions:

Just realized it says store in the fridge. Does that just make it last longer, or did I make my cats sick by keeping it at room temp?

Ok, so you used 80% chicken breast, 10% liver & 10% kidney. That's a safe organ amount, if a little bit high. I would have done 90% Ck, 5% liver & 5% kidney + the Alnutrin with Calcium but like I said... I really don't think you should have had this negative reaction with your recipe.

I suggested commercial raw only as a one-time purchase to see if your cats have the same reaction to a different batch of food. I realize it is more expensive but I just thought it might be easier to test that rather than buying more meat & organs, making another batch of food, etc. Trust me, once my cats were fully transitioned, I started making my own as quick as I could to save money by cutting out the commercial raw. I am all for homemade but sometimes it is easier to test and transition to commercial first.

Whatever you decide to do, don't be afraid or scared off. It sounds like you have done your research and your cats will greatly benefit from a fresh, balanced, raw diet. Since all 3 of your cats had a negative reaction(vomiting, soft stool), I would probably start from scratch with either a commercial raw or make a new batch with new chicken and new organs.

That's just what *I* would do but hopefully other members will come along with some advice too.

I'm assuming refrigeration is to make it last longer and prevent lipid oxidation of the egg yolk powder or degradation of any vitamins. I don't think it would cause vomiting to not refrigerate.

I really am curious why your package has you using 4oz organ/1lb of meat (so 2oz liver/1lb), but mine is saying only 0.8oz of liver, and no other organs. Different ingredient ratios perhaps? Either way, have you been able to call your vet to ask about their symptoms? I hope your cats feel better soon. I agree with abby, above, in that maybe try a commercial raw, or just make a fresh batch of Alnutrin with all fresh ingredients.

This is my label, for reference. Maybe our packets have different ingredients, which is why the organ/liver amounts are different. I hope I'm not under-supplementing organs:

EmmiTemmi said:

See, this is really confusing for me, because I also use Alnutrin + Calcium, but that is most definitely NOT the instructions on mine. Even the website says:

"Add together:
1 pack (or 6.7 g) of Alnutrin with Calcium or Alnutrin with EggShell Calcium (Pre-packaged)
1/2 cup (or 120 g) of water, can be adjusted as needed.
Mix lightly, then add
1 lb (or 454 g) of ground raw chicken meat (boneless, skinless)
0.8 oz (or 23 g) of ground raw chicken liver
Mix well. Divide into storage containers and freeze unused portion"

So your instructions are adding a lot more liver/organ than what my package says... How are our instructions so different? Is there a different Alnutrin + Calcium with different make instructions?

Click to expand...

I don't know why they're different instructions but your package says to use about 5% liver if you do the calculation. Her package says to use about 20% organ mix. A lot of the "organ mixes" from HT will include liver, kidney, gizzards, lung, heart, etc. Both recipes are relatively balanced.

We all know that about 5% liver is mandatory in a homemade diet. The other organs supposedly are not mandatory but surely must be healthy additions.

abby2932 I see what you mean. I supposed I could pick up 1 container of Rad Cat just to try to transition them/make sure I'm not going to kill them. I seriously feel terrible that I made them all sick, especially since it had to be my mom's cat that got the sickest.

I'm trying not to be scared off, I just feel like I hurt my cats and I'm afraid of it happening again. I bought a giant pack of chicken breasts from Costco. Two breasts/package and many packages. The first breast in one package went fine when I fed them chunks of it. The second breast (thawed 2x) in that same package was the one they got sick after. Is it safe to use the rest of the packages?

Should I be using the instructions that EmmiTemmi has? The ingredients and nutrient content is exactly the same. The only difference is that mine says 1.5 mg iron/1 g supplement and yours says 1.4 mg iron/1 g supplement. Other than that, the numbers are exactly the same, the ingredients are exactly the same, and the ingredients are in the same order.

Only other thing I can really think of is that those organs are old as heck. I don't even fully know how old. But they have always been in the bottom of my big freezer, which measure at less than 1 degree F. Stilll... Maybe that was somehow the problem? I could always get new organs. Not sure which store I could go to, but I'm sure I could figure it out. It's just a shame, since the organs I have exist and I don't want to waste them.

And no, I haven't called my vet. I don't see the point. I'm sure he will just tell me I shouldn't be feeding my cats raw meat (will probably recommend Science Diet, as most vets do), give me a canned bland diet, and prescribe some Cerenia. I already have Cerenia and will use it if I need to, but Padfoot seems to be doing better. No more vomiting, and he ate a bit and is keeping it down.

Just take a breath...keep the cats on their original diet for a few days until everything is back to normal. Then start fresh.

Maybe the organs were bad...or maybe sheep just doesn't agree with them. I don't know.

I would assume that the chicken you bought from Costco should be fine to feed. I like to use thighs because breasts are too lean but since you have them already, you should use them. Just pick up some chicken livers from the store. If you're going to make a new batch, I would use 95% chicken, 5% liver & the appropriate amount of Alnutrin + Calcium. Lots of times, when there is chicken liver, you can also find gizzards & hearts too. In that case, I would make it 85% chicken, 5% liver, 5% heart, 5% gizzard.

Okay.. I know I'm kind of flipping out about it. My mother was skeptical of my feeding them raw meat from the start, and she's not too pleased I made her cat sick. Oops.

I'll start fresh in a few days. I think using Rad Cat for the moment is a good idea. I'll pick up a small-ish container and give it to them with their canned food. And when I once again grind my own meat, I'll use different organs. I really would like to use the sheep organs, but if they are bad or don't agree with my cats then I guess I can't. I suppose I could give them to my dogs with their food as a treat.

For the record, the reason I'm using breasts is because I am feeding a commercial canned/raw mix. I'm using Fancy Feast Classics, which have plenty of fat but not enough protein. Lean meat is a good balancer.

My diet:

100 g/day Fancy Feast Chicken or Turkey or Beef (they sell a box with all 3, so can rotate)
85 g/day lean meat (for this calculation, I used chicken breast)
Appropriate amount of Alnutrin supplement with calcium

This comes out to 6.6 g protein/kg
194 cal/day or 43.2 cal/kg (this can go up if they lose weight, it's the ratios that matter here)
53% of calories coming from protein (assuming 3.5 kcal/g)
28% of calories coming from fat (assuming 9 kcal/g)
Didn't calculate carbs, but those flavors of Fancy Feast are low carb and the rest is just meat/organ

I gotcha! I hope the kitties are feeling better today. Make sure to keep us posted on the transition progress in a few days. We're all invested now

Yes, I will certainly update.

Last question: where do I buy liver? I know I can order it from Hare Today but I don't want that much of it to start.

I'm pretty sure Wal-Mart has chicken liver. It will be in a 1lb frozen tub in the freezer section somewhere. You might walk past it all the time but never notice it because you're not looking for it.

I've only bought it from the grocery store once. It was at Rouse. Do you have one of those? Or any local grocery store might carry it. I think it might be near the bacon?

I suggest calling a few stores in advance and ask if they carry frozen chicken liver so you're not driving all over the place.

Safeway and Food 4 Less also carry tubs of chicken liver, kept in the same section as the rest of the meat.

Thanks! I'll call around and find some liver.

I'm not going to try again for probably a few more days, because I am having oral surgery tomorrow and don't want to worry about keeping an eye on them.

Good luck with your surgery...hope you have a speedy recovery!

Are the kitties all feeling back to normal? Eating well, etc?

Thanks! I hope so too, I am very nervous.

They're all eating normally again and everyone is pooping normally except for Tank. He still has diarrhea. But that is typical for him. Once he starts having diarrhea, it doesn't seem to stop without intervention. I have to load him up with pumpkin twice a day to get his poop to go back to normal. Common occurrence for him, because he is always getting into things he shouldn't. Luckily he LOVES pumpkin, so it's not a problem to give it to him. But most importantly, Padfoot is a-okay now and he was by far the sickest.

Okay, finally felt well enough to give this another go. I bought a container of chicken Rad Cat and thawed it in the fridge overnight. I fed them 20% Rad Cat, 80% Fancy Feast. 2/3 were not entirely pleased, but still ate it. We'll see how it goes! I really hope it doesn't make them sick again.

How did they do?

Great! I did the same thing this morning and they are eating it better and no signs of vomiting. I think I'll keep using the Rad Cat and build up the amount of raw they are getting until they are eating it consistently and in the amount I want to use. Then I will switch over to grinding my own meat and feeding them that.

Thanks for suggesting using the commercial raw to transition them. It solves the problem of having to thaw meat and refreeze it. It's going to be kind of a pain until I use this whole pack of chicken breast, though. I don't want to thaw and refreeze again, so I'll have to thaw probably one chicken breast at a time and mix it up, because I'd rather the meat not be in the fridge for more than 2 days. I guess the right thing to do would have been to buy the chicken breast from the store, take it home, immediately grind it up and mix it, and then freeze in portions.

I'm so happy you did not get discouraged!