My Solid Brown Rescue Kitty

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Echolane

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I did capture a few photos and they are not very good photos, apologies for that, but they do show her “glitter”. I have to say that they don’t do justice to the way her fur just sparkles or glitters!
The first photo hardly looks like a cat, but it was my first glimpse of what the sun does to her. She is coming towards me in the photo. The oddest thing is to see those stripes. I think they are just an incidental photo artifact because I can’t find them on her. It’s really odd how the light turns her brown hairs to what looks like silver. There is not a single white hair on her.
 
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Echolane

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Actually after contacting UC Davis they will not give you the info you are looking for. Sorry for the plug but Basepaws.com is a much better option as they will give you breed info as well as everything else UC Davis does AND if they find something years from now you'll have access to that info and It's all included. It's less expensive than UC Davis too ($95). Actually it was down to $65 dollars in December (Christmas special). I'll be ordering a kit for Keanu and Forrest soon.

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I’d be interested in doing this, but do you have enough individuals in your databank to be accurate in identifying specific breed heritage?
 

CThom17

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I’d be interested in doing this, but do you have enough individuals in your databank to be accurate in identifying specific breed heritage?
That's their goal. If they don't have info on a certain breed immediately, that doesn't mean they won't have that info in the near future. To me anything is better than what we as cat owners have now which is basically nothing. UC Davis doesn't give you breed information. I emailed them and that's what they told me.
 

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View attachment 216354 View attachment 216355 View attachment 216356 I did capture a few photos and they are not very good photos, apologies for that, but they do show her “glitter”. I have to say that they don’t do justice to the way her fur just sparkles or glitters!
The first photo hardly looks like a cat, but it was my first glimpse of what the sun does to her. She is coming towards me in the photo. The oddest thing is to see those stripes. I think they are just an incidental photo artifact because I can’t find them on her. It’s really odd how the light turns her brown hairs to what looks like silver. There is not a single white hair on her.

Not to hijack the thread but in certain lighting conditions, Forrest looks like a completely different cat. My son was shocked when I showed him this picture. He almost didn't believe me that it was him lol. He has a lot of brown under that grey.
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hortusgirlii

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As a result of the feedback on this thread I have been motivated to spend hours pouring over cat genetics (exceedingly complicated) and cat breeds. I am so glad for the potential breed leads of Bemgsl and Abyssinian on my two kittens which helped me get going on their possible backgrounds.
I did learn that brown is a variation of black labeled "dense" on the genetic chart and silver is a "dilute" variation of black. Brown is a recessive which must be carried by both parents. Silver must be recessive too. But that information didn't help confirm the possibility of Bengal and Aby genes for me. What does tend to reinforce the Bengal possibility is their ultra soft coats. I do not exaggerate when I marvel at the ultra softness of Gemi's coat as it indescribably soft. Timo's is almost as soft, but not quite as soft over his flank. I can almost tell them apart in the dark this way. The thing with heights fits Bengals too. I had to rescue Gemi off the top of my shutters just now. I didn't think she'd figure out how to climb back down the screen that got her up there. As for Aby in their background, the ticked blue is a clue, but what struck me when I read about Abyssinians is their soft meow. They also are said to have a lot of energy.
That would be so cool if they had some Aby and Bengal in their backgrounds, though I must say I wish they were colored like Bengals or Abys. I'm mad about those wild colors, especially the reddish golden colors. And those green eyes!
I've become so curious, I wonder if there is any reliable genetic testing of cats??
And the genetics of color interests me. Can I find out the color genetics of my kittens?
Brown is a recessive mutation of black written as bb, black is BB, Bb is also black but carrying brown. Dense is DD, and dilute is dd, Dd is dense carrying dilute. Silver is dominante and cannot be carried so one parent has to be a visual silver. Ticked is a tabby gene. You can get a color panel genetic test quite cheaply about $60 with a buccal swab (q-tip swab inside cheek)
 

hortusgirlii

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View attachment 216354 View attachment 216355 View attachment 216356 I did capture a few photos and they are not very good photos, apologies for that, but they do show her “glitter”. I have to say that they don’t do justice to the way her fur just sparkles or glitters!
The first photo hardly looks like a cat, but it was my first glimpse of what the sun does to her. She is coming towards me in the photo. The oddest thing is to see those stripes. I think they are just an incidental photo artifact because I can’t find them on her. It’s really odd how the light turns her brown hairs to what looks like silver. There is not a single white hair on her.
its super hard to capture in pics, sometimes you can see it plain as day but capture nothing. I have satin cats and many pics look ordinary, the flash caught the shine in this picture.
 

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hortusgirlii

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The effect we call "glitter" in bengals looks more like the cat has been sprinkled with gold (in brown bengals), pearly (in snows) or iridiscent (in silvers) dust all over the body, especially in the areas of cheeck-bones, "eyebrows", and along the spine. Satin looks more like a super reflective quality of their coat, and I've seen it in other breeds (my persian mix, Raistlin, has that satin effect in his legs too), but not tremendously often. I would compare it, in a certain way, with the "silver" tips of some top quality Russian Blue cats, though I am almost certain that the genes involved have nothing to do. I definetely see it in your blue boy, more specifically in his front left arm. Check if different lights allow you to see it more clearly; sunlight is usually the best for this, but even the light of my nightable lamp can make Freya "shine" like that, so it is worth trying. Please, share the results of your experiments!

The muscular part you mentioned is totally bengalish, these are like new Captain America: big cats full of muscle ;)
satin is very sparkly in real life, I think sometimes Bengals look more like satin, and Satins more like glitter. Satins do look like satin in pictures its a hard mutation to pick up in pictures. I have both a glitter and a Satin cat, they are quite different but similar too.
 
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Echolane

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Actually after contacting UC Davis they will not give you the info you are looking for. Sorry for the plug but Basepaws.com is a much better option as they will give you breed info as well as everything else UC Davis does AND if they find something years from now you'll have access to that info and It's all included. It's less expensive than UC Davis too ($95). Actually it was down to $65 dollars in December (Christmas special). I'll be ordering a kit for Keanu and Forrest soon.

View attachment 216317
I would really like to do this, but I didn't think the website was very specific about what it would report and $95 X 2 would be a real luxury. I did like that as they gather more data, they will retroactively add to their reports. Thanks for the info. I'll have to watch for a sale price.
 
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Echolane

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Brown is a recessive mutation of black written as bb, black is BB, Bb is also black but carrying brown. Dense is DD, and dilute is dd, Dd is dense carrying dilute. Silver is dominante and cannot be carried so one parent has to be a visual silver. Ticked is a tabby gene. You can get a color panel genetic test quite cheaply about $60 with a buccal swab (q-tip swab inside cheek)
I find coat genetics very complicated. I can't quite imagine how a genetics test would sort out either one of my cats. Timo is both ticked and tabby and both gray (or is it silver) and white. I can't figure out how that would be expressed in the paired genetic language. And Gemini is brown with liver colored lips and paws. But I am told she has ghost tabby stripes. Again, I can't figure out how that would be expressed in the paired genetic language. The brown I expect would be expressed as bb, but how is the ghost tabby expressed?
 

hortusgirlii

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It gets hard because some terms are breed specific too. A ticked cat is a form of Tabby, Tabby in a way means wild fur type, or agouti, solid cats are a mutation of wild or ticked fur and referred to as non agouti. The agouti or wild fur type has various presentation Spotted, marble, mackeral and ticked. We probably think of Mackeral when we think of Tabby stripes in general.Tabbies do have some ticking in them but are not completely ticked over like the true ticked tabby. Ghost markings are just markings that are not completely covered. The red mutation does not cover markings well so almost all red cats even if solid have some markings. The backgrounds of Tabby can be various shades cool tone, warm tone etc depending on polygenetic influences. Rufousing or a red tone is a common one and helps make the diffference between a brown, or gold warm color and the grey or silver color. There is no test for that. Silver in cat coat colors is actually a different thing, and that is an inhibitor polygenetic effect too, it removes the bands normally present in the wild fur . There is another called wide band that moves the ticking or pigments in solids toward tips. The inhibitor or silver makes the smoke effect on solid cats, it is just called silver on tabbies. Your brown is probably not bb brown, its hard to tell in pictures. She looks like she could have dilute. The colors get complex, dilute black is blue, easy but the other bases can be dilute too, so dilute chocolate would be lilac, etc. That would show as bbdd. The various mutations form a chain, that if you subtract them you would get back to the wild tabby pattern a BBAACC etc it just means a black tabby no colorpoint (Siamese) . This is an awesome link a challenge to use if you do not have a basic working of the various codes but you can see them and ow they work and play with it.
Advanced Cat Coat Calculator
 
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Echolane

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It gets hard because some terms are breed specific too. A ticked cat is a form of Tabby, Tabby in a way means wild fur type, or agouti, solid cats are a mutation of wild or ticked fur and referred to as non agouti. The agouti or wild fur type has various presentation Spotted, marble, mackeral and ticked. We probably think of Mackeral when we think of Tabby stripes in general.Tabbies do have some ticking in them but are not completely ticked over like the true ticked tabby.”

This parts sounds quite straightforward, but as you continue it all exceeded my knowledge at this point and I get completely lost......

But if I give it a try on my male...... Ticked tabby, I read, is specified as Ta. That accounts for the top and sides of Timo, who is blue ticked from nose to croup and down his sides. But then he is gray (or should I say blue) stripped tabby over white on his tail and legs and undersides. Would that be mackerel striped tabby? TM? But neither of those terms describe his colors, which are blue and white. Goodness, this seems very complicated to my old brain....!

Gemini looks very rich deep brown to me. I don’t know how a dilute would differ in strength of brown, though I did own a chocolate point Balinese at one point and if memory serves, Gemini is a much richer, deeper brown than my Balinese was. So my guess is she would be described as bb, but if not bb, how would dilute be described? And how would tabby ghost stripes be represented?
 

hortusgirlii

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It gets hard because some terms are breed specific too. A ticked cat is a form of Tabby, Tabby in a way means wild fur type, or agouti, solid cats are a mutation of wild or ticked fur and referred to as non agouti. The agouti or wild fur type has various presentation Spotted, marble, mackeral and ticked. We probably think of Mackeral when we think of Tabby stripes in general.Tabbies do have some ticking in them but are not completely ticked over like the true ticked tabby.”

This parts sounds quite straightforward, but as you continue it all exceeded my knowledge at this point and I get completely lost......

But if I give it a try on my male...... Ticked tabby, I read, is specified as Ta. That accounts for the top and sides of Timo, who is blue ticked from nose to croup and down his sides. But then he is gray (or should I say blue) stripped tabby over white on his tail and legs and undersides. Would that be mackerel striped tabby? TM? But neither of those terms describe his colors, which are blue and white. Goodness, this seems very complicated to my old brain....!

Gemini looks very rich deep brown to me. I don’t know how a dilute would differ in strength of brown, though I did own a chocolate point Balinese at one point and if memory serves, Gemini is a much richer, deeper brown than my Balinese was. So my guess is she would be described as bb, but if not bb, how would dilute be described? And how would tabby ghost stripes be represented?
 

hortusgirlii

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There are things that influence the shades of a color besides dilute. The most known would be the Siamese cat. The base color can be any cat color, so as an example a black Siamese cat (or the non Siamese version same color other breeds ) would be called seal , the brown chocolate point. It is the lightest of the whats called albino series (trysonine) genes. It is cscs. The darkest of these cats is Burmese cbcb, if you mix the two you get cbcs or Mink. CC is plain black or no effect. The problem is that you have a number of mutations and things effecting the cats color, and in different combinations they produce hundreds of combos. Once you get past the basics it explodes. Think of it as the three primary colors red, blue, yellow. They mix to add blue x yellow = green, red x yellow= orange etc, then you add white or black to make shades, hundreds of colors. Cat colors do not mix like paint but the analogy is same hundreds of colors that can be reduced back down to black tabby by subtracting the various mutations and polygenes.
The one cat seems like it could be solid on a base I cannot tell from pictures. You might try googling Burmese, or chocolate, and if cat is lighter try mink. You can google the different colors added to those mutations. seal mink, lilac mink, red mink etc, lilac burmese, or go to burmese cat colors page, and play like that, unless you test it is very hard to visually guess if your not around lots of cat shows looking at the very subtle difference. Even breeders have to test sometimes. Things like eye color, nose and paw pad colors can give a breeder clues, it is very complex to learn.
 
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