My Solid Brown Rescue Kitty

Echolane · Aug 24, 2017

By way of introduction, i adopted a brother and sister from a woman who fosters for the SPCS. MY pair had been found on the street at less than a week of age and had to be bottle raised at first.

I was instantly interested in adopting when I saw a photo of the brown kitten as I had been looking for a Burmese cat! The brother is silvery gray with tabby striping on his legs and underparts.

Brown is a very rare color in Domestic Shorthair cats. So far as I understand is a dilute black. There are only two breeds I know of where brown is a standard color. The Burmese and the Havana. Someone also suggested the color occurs in the Oriental Shorthair.
Both of. One look at little like Oriental Shorthair to me. They have short ultra soft coats and long bodies and smallish heads. The girl is completely brown. Her pads and eye rims are liver colored. Both of them have the softest meows I've ever heard. Both of them are quite touchy with their paws. Touchy meaning they like to touch me almost like their paws are hands.

I'd love to know what their background might be.

StefanZ · Aug 24, 2017

The other is quite unusual it too. Its not solid blue, as the tabby stripes are quite visible, its no way ghost markings. So I must presume its ticked tabby, a blue ticked tabby. the nearest standard breed is abysynnian, although possibly some burmese can also have it. And I presume, Oriental may have it too as much is allowed in there.

I agree with you, bodywise they have some resemblance to Oriental old type.

Whomever they are, both you and they got the highest win in this lottery of life.

abyeb · Aug 24, 2017

I agree with StefanZ, they do show some resemblance to Orientals in body type. Burmese maybe too, but it depends where you're located, because in the US Burmese have a more cobby build, but a more moderate look in Europe.

Alejandra Rico · Aug 24, 2017

stefanz said:
The other is quite unusual it too. Its not solid blue, as the tabby stripes are quite visible, its no way ghost markings. So I must presume its ticked tabby, a blue ticked tabby. the nearest standard breed is abysynnian, although possibly some burmese can also have it.

Maybe a silver blue? It reminds me of the silver blue bengals I've seen (in colour, I mean, though that closed collar stripe and profile shape would still fit bengal traits, and that "extra soft and short" coat kind of rings a bell, but then, as you said tickling is more abyssinian like...).
I want more pictures!

Echolane · Aug 24, 2017

Thanks so much for the interesting speculations! I am ever fascinated by the possibilities. What was unexpected is that my gray beauty is unusual too. I think they are both very handsome cats (what parent doesn't!), but setting that aside, my thought is that they have very nice conformation. I'd like to say exceptionally nice conformation, but I don't know cats that well. But I am used to showing dogs, so I have an eye for good conformation. One thing I should have added is that they are still kittens probably exactly five months old now.
I do have a few more photos, though I am inhibited a little in taking photos because they are so busy! Besides that, the brown girl (Gemini) is hard to photograph well. I call my gray boy Timo.
I have to say I am crazy in love with them. Most of the time anyway. They are very human centered, very attentive to their human family, not bashful with people and new things. Try locr to be touched and stroked. They love to sit or lie on us. I Timo is particularly affectionate, but I get little kisses from them both, and head butts, passionate purring and kneading too. They like to be picked up. Gemi asked to be picked up and cuddled. They run to the door when I return from an errand.
OTOH, they are so busy running and playing together, my house is in shambles. The pounding feet of two galloping cats is surprisingly loud, though I adore it. Then come the sofa cushions on the floor, along with books, magazines, flower pots overturned, silk flower arrangements rearranged and worse, a precious porcelain lamp on the floor with porcelain body intact (luckily) and only a foot broken off that we were able to glue back on (luckily). My shower curtain liner is in shreds (I hang the beautiful outer curtain over the rod where they can't reach it and I've done the same with the curtains in the loving room. I dread the moment when they discovere the toilet paper.

Alejandra Rico · Aug 24, 2017

So, I must be totally bengal obsessed, seeing bengals everywhere (except in those whose owners really want bengal influence to be seen).
But I see bengal, more clearly inbour silver blue than in Gemini (for me, she looks black, though, but maybe her color has faded from living on the streets and lacking some nutrients?). Both have a tabby pattern, for what I can see in Gemini, she has ghost marks. Right nose colour, right paw colour, right head shape, right whisker pads, right eye colour and mascara in Timo. Right body structure for a kitten, but time will tell. Tail may be too thin, but then, for an Abyssinian that tail is ok, so if this kitty by a combination of incredible coincidence of events has BOTH bengal and Abyssinian blood, inheriting tickling, colour dilution and silver, and maybe, even, a very closed marbling, he looks exactly what I would expect of that cross of breeds diluted with some domestic short hair influence.
Do they make weird sounds you haven't heard from other cats?

Echolane · Aug 24, 2017

They are very quiet cats! But when they do have something to say, it is the faintest, tiniest of little meows you can imagine. The foster mom commented on their tiny voices too. I haven't heard other sounds from them. They are exclusively indoor cats and it's a quiet household, so they must not seem inspired to be talkative.
Gemi is not a faded black, not even close. She was found with her brother on the street at less than a week of age, bottle fed until weaned, indoors until I adopted her at eight weeks and so essentially never outside, nor denied a good diet. She is busy growing her adult coat now and it is unambiguously brown. Plus she has liver colored foot pads and eye rims.
Bengal and Abyssinian - I can hardly think of anything more appealing! I'm a pure bred sort by nature. My first choice for a cat would have been a Bengal. I am totally smitten with them, but simply cannot afford the multi-thousand $ asking price in my area (San Francisco Bay Area). Next choice would be Siamese heritage. I was drawn to that choice because of my first cat who was an all black 3/4 Siamese and I could write a book about her because she was so unusual and wonderful. She is the reason that thirty years ago I acquired a Balinese. The first Balinese was clearly the old fashioned apple headed sort and the second one, who came a few years later, was more a transitional sort, longer of body, smaller of head, etc. But I don't like the elongated conformation of the modern Siamese so I decided to look for Burmese or Tonkinese. An Aby would have been a next choice on my list. Incidentally, I found shopping for a purebred cat quite difficult as breeders seem few and far between and in all but one case, very unresponsive to correspondence. So when that unusual brown kitty turned up, I decided to forego my hunt for a purebred.
If you are right about a Bengal in their background, perhaps that explains the mayhem in my house. I've never had anything close to this level of physical exuberance before. I've thought it was simply explained by the fact that I've never owned two kittens at the same time before. Abys are supposed to be pretty busy too.

Alejandra Rico · Aug 24, 2017

Echolane said:
They are very quiet cats! But when they do have something to say, it is the faintest, tiniest of little meows you can imagine. The foster mom commented on their tiny voices too. I haven't heard other sounds from them. They are exclusively indoor cats and it's a quiet household, so they must not seem inspired to be talkative.
Gemi is not a faded black, not even close. She was found with her brother on the street at less than a week of age, bottle fed until weaned, indoors until I adopted her at eight weeks and so essentially never outside, nor denied a good diet. She is busy growing her adult coat now and it is unambiguously brown. Plus she has liver colored foot pads and eye rims.
Bengal and Abyssinian - I can hardly think of anything more appealing! I'm a pure bred sort by nature. My first choice for a cat would have been a Bengal. I am totally smitten with them, but simply cannot afford the multi-thousand $ asking price in my area (San Francisco Bay Area). Next choice would be Siamese heritage. I was drawn to that choice because of my first cat who was an all black 3/4 Siamese and I could write a book about her because she was so unusual and wonderful. She is the reason that thirty years ago I acquired a Balinese. The first Balinese was clearly the old fashioned apple headed sort and the second one, who came a few years later, was more a transitional sort, longer of body, smaller of head, etc. But I don't like the elongated conformation of the modern Siamese so I decided to look for Burmese or Tonkinese. An Aby would have been a next choice on my list. Incidentally, I found shopping for a purebred cat quite difficult as breeders seem few and far between and in all but one case, very unresponsive to correspondence. So when that unusual brown kitty turned up, I decided to forego my hunt for a purebred.
If you are right about a Bengal in their background, perhaps that explains the mayhem in my house. I've never had anything close to this level of physical exuberance before. I've thought it was simply explained by the fact that I've never owned two kittens at the same time before. Abys are supposed to be pretty busy too.

You know, ethical breeders are rare to be found, basicaly because they are all mad people who risk their mental health on purpose in order to breed healthy and sociable cats that meet the standard. Even if It means no new clothes for a year. Even if It means no "dine" out for a year. Even if... Well, you sure see what I mean.
There are rescue groups for Bengal cats in the USA, so you could consider applying for fostering/adopting one next time you feel like having a new member in the family.
My phone can be a little bit weird with pictures, so if you say Gemini is brown, then I trust you

Freya (my 5 months old bengal) is surprinsingly not really talkative. She will mew, but quite softly, almost voiceless. She also does a weird sonar-like sound (I compare it to Velocirraptor's in Jurasic World) that is very cute.
But yeah, kittens are hyper. Bengal kittens are like normal kittens on speed

Echolane · Aug 25, 2017

As a result of the feedback on this thread I have been motivated to spend hours pouring over cat genetics (exceedingly complicated) and cat breeds. I am so glad for the potential breed leads of Bemgsl and Abyssinian on my two kittens which helped me get going on their possible backgrounds.
I did learn that brown is a variation of black labeled "dense" on the genetic chart and silver is a "dilute" variation of black. Brown is a recessive which must be carried by both parents. Silver must be recessive too. But that information didn't help confirm the possibility of Bengal and Aby genes for me. What does tend to reinforce the Bengal possibility is their ultra soft coats. I do not exaggerate when I marvel at the ultra softness of Gemi's coat as it indescribably soft. Timo's is almost as soft, but not quite as soft over his flank. I can almost tell them apart in the dark this way. The thing with heights fits Bengals too. I had to rescue Gemi off the top of my shutters just now. I didn't think she'd figure out how to climb back down the screen that got her up there. As for Aby in their background, the ticked blue is a clue, but what struck me when I read about Abyssinians is their soft meow. They also are said to have a lot of energy.
That would be so cool if they had some Aby and Bengal in their backgrounds, though I must say I wish they were colored like Bengals or Abys. I'm mad about those wild colors, especially the reddish golden colors. And those green eyes!
I've become so curious, I wonder if there is any reliable genetic testing of cats??
And the genetics of color interests me. Can I find out the color genetics of my kittens?

StefanZ · Aug 25, 2017

Re genetic testing; yes there is. University of California Veterinary Medical School, usually called for UC Davis. They do it, for a fairly cheap price too.

Alejandra Rico · Aug 26, 2017

It is great you did some research on these breeds, It is sure something a really interesting toppic.
Silver gene is dominant (at least in bengals it is!) and blue is recesive. I would say, if I am right in my guess of Silver Blue for Timo at least one of the parents was silver, though not homocigotic, and both carriers of the dilution gene for blue. If he is just blue, forget about silver :thumbsup:

Just want to point that even though they have the same mother, they don't necessarily share father.

Echolane · Aug 27, 2017

stefanz said:
Re genetic testing; yes there is. University of California Veterinary Medical School, usually called for UC Davis. They do it, for a fairly cheap price too.

But, darn it, more than a little expensive when I'd have to have both cats tested because 1) their colors are completely different, and 2) they could have different fathers. But curiosity killed the cat, I might do it anyway!
I do wish the UCDavis test could be more breed specific, though I understand the difficulty.

Echolane · Aug 27, 2017

Alejandra Rico said:
It is great you did some research on these breeds, It is sure something a really interesting toppic.
Silver gene is dominant (at least in bengals it is!) and blue is recesive. I would say, if I am right in my guess of Silver Blue for Timo at least one of the parents was silver, though not homocigotic, and both carriers of the dilution gene for blue. If he is just blue, forget about silver
Just want to point that even though they have the same mother, they don't necessarily share father.

It is an interesting topic and I am a curious sort. I think I spend hours every day asking Google about something or other. But unfortunately, my research doesn't lead to a definitive answer, though it provides tantalizing bits and pieces that suggest they *could* be Bengal and Aby and DSH.
Short of doing genetic testing, is there any way to decide which color Timo is? Silver? Or blue? His body color reminds me of the appearance of a blue roan horse. He has a darker dorsal stripe down the center of his back. When I stroke his hair backwards, all the hairs against his skin look white. I can't figure out where the darker gray comes from. Oh puzzlement. I just don't know all that much about cat colors.

Alejandra Rico · Aug 28, 2017

Well, to all effects Timo is blue. I was just wondering, by the shade of his coat and the lighter parts in him, if the inhibitor gene is always making effects there. This is something not only seen, but breed for by some bengal breeders of the USA.
But, as I said, he is blue, so that is what I would write

But, as you are just like me, a curious animal, I leave you here a link that may answer a few questions and create a thousand new ones for you
Difference between blue and silver?

Echolane · Jan 26, 2018

I am reopening this thread because the two kittens who are the subject are nearly adult at about 10 months of age. Found on the street at about one week of age, they were bottle raised. They are wonderfully sweet affectionate cats and I love them so much!
But I remain very curious as to their heritage because I think they have such atypical conformation. I really wonder if they have lived up to the earlier guesses of Bengal and Abyssinian blood in their backgrounds. Maybe there’s some Oriental Shorthair? Or??
They both seem unusually long bodied to my eye. I call them my Dachsund cats. And they are also unexpectedly large. Timo, the male, is 13 pounds, Gem, the female is around 11 pounds. I have to admit they are both a bit fat, which I am working on, nevertheless, they seem so much larger than the cats I typically meet.
A couple of other oddities: they have the tiniest of voices! I can barely hear their soft high pitched meows! And the other notable is that Gemi, in particular, has a tiny head for her body.
Guesses anyone?

Alejandra Rico · Jan 26, 2018

Hi again!

That would have been a great picture for this month's contest, but anyways you should post it in the "sleeping beauties" thread.

"Tiny" heads and long bodies, as well as a big size, are definetely bengal traits. Longer hind legs too, which you haven't mentioned and I can't really see in this picture, so you may want to check it. And, I think thay both in Gemini and in Timo I am seeing a shiny effect in their coats, especially visible in legs area, called "satin" by some bengal breeders.

This picture is far from great, but do you see the area in her front leg that looks almost white? Well, it isn't, it is exactly the same color of the rest of the body, but the tips of her hair are reflecting light in a way that creates that optic ilusion. I think that I am seeing the exact same in your kitties. Timo definetely does, Gemini is a little more difficult to analyze because the light is not highlighting the same areas as in Timo.

As regards to voices, I don't know what to tell you. Bengals are supposed to ne talkative (very very talkative), and I could say that Freya is, indeed, very comunicative, but she rarely mews at an audible level. She produces chirping sounds, and also a very short "mi", that usually means "I am listening to you, but please, shut up so I can keep destroying X". She purrs of pure happyness almost all the time.

Echolane · Jan 26, 2018

All very interesting, thanks so much for informative reply! The only obvious discrepancy for some Bengal genetics seems to be their voices. They are very quiet kitties, the very opposite of talkative. And they are not what I’d call our machines. The purring is quiet like their voices.

As far as shine (or is it glitter), I can certainly see what you mean on the photo of your very pretty cat. I’m not sure I see that on mine. Is it more obvious in bright light? I’ll also have to pay more attention to the hind legs. They are very muscular legs as they are very active jumpers, but I have not had the impression that they are particularly high in the rear.

Its fun to think they have Bengal blood, thanks for much for your input!

And thanks for the tip on photos. I’ll have to look up “sleeping beauties” and the monthly photo contest.

Jan

Alejandra Rico · Jan 26, 2018

Echolane said:
As far as shine (or is it glitter), I can certainly see what you mean on the photo of your very pretty cat. I’m not sure I see that on mine. Is it more obvious in bright light?

The effect we call "glitter" in bengals looks more like the cat has been sprinkled with gold (in brown bengals), pearly (in snows) or iridiscent (in silvers) dust all over the body, especially in the areas of cheeck-bones, "eyebrows", and along the spine. Satin looks more like a super reflective quality of their coat, and I've seen it in other breeds (my persian mix, Raistlin, has that satin effect in his legs too), but not tremendously often. I would compare it, in a certain way, with the "silver" tips of some top quality Russian Blue cats, though I am almost certain that the genes involved have nothing to do. I definetely see it in your blue boy, more specifically in his front left arm. Check if different lights allow you to see it more clearly; sunlight is usually the best for this, but even the light of my nightable lamp can make Freya "shine" like that, so it is worth trying. Please, share the results of your experiments!

The muscular part you mentioned is totally bengalish, these are like new Captain America: big cats full of muscle

Echolane · Jan 27, 2018

I don’t have a lot of sunlight in my house but today Gemini was caught in a strong ray of sunshine and she just glittered everywhere. I could see individual hairs just sparkle as they reflected the light. The glitter was definitely unmistakable, a wow moment. I can’t believe I’ve never noticed that before.
I’ll have to hope I can catch Timo in the same sort of light.
One other thing I forgot to mention about Gemini, she has an ultra soft coat. So ultra soft I can’t think of anything it feels like. Timo’s coat is very soft and silky too, but not quite as soft as hers. They both sleep against me at night and I can tell them apart by this slight difference in their coats.

CThom17 · Jan 27, 2018

Actually after contacting UC Davis they will not give you the info you are looking for. Sorry for the plug but Basepaws.com is a much better option as they will give you breed info as well as everything else UC Davis does AND if they find something years from now you'll have access to that info and It's all included. It's less expensive than UC Davis too ($95). Actually it was down to $65 dollars in December (Christmas special). I'll be ordering a kit for Keanu and Forrest soon.

stefanz said:
Re genetic testing; yes there is. University of California Veterinary Medical School, usually called for UC Davis. They do it, for a fairly cheap price too.

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