Giardia In Two 16 Week-old Kittens

freddie.and.ramona

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Jan 8, 2018
Messages
30
Purraise
11
Hi guys!

I've been a "lurker" on The Cat Site for the past several years and have gotten some really great ideas and advice from this site with my last kitty of 17 years (RIP) and no my two new kittens!

A little background: We got two Devon Rex kittens last month from a breeder who's been in the business for 42 years. She seemed reputable (cats bred for breeding programs, shows etc) and keeps up with all of her cat's owners throughout their lives. So far, everything has been great- they are healthy, playful, active, and tons of fun to have in the house! The only issue they have had thus far is a mild URI that cleared with Lysine. However... the vet ordered a routine stool sample test just as a precaution. The girl (Ramona) has had perfectly formed stools and eating well. The boy (Freddie) has been also eating like a horse (and growing like crazy!) but has had intermittent diarrhea. No blood, just cow patties in the litter box. Neither have been vomiting or losing weight. Quite the opposite. We figured his was stress related and also tweaking his diet slightly since he's been home. The stool that was tested was Ramona's and it came back positive for Giardia! I was shocked. She especially is not showing symptoms. The vet said they did not find cysts but did find proteins indicating an infection on a SNAP test.

Me being paranoid, I started researching Giardia and I'm getting overwhelmed with the amount of cleaning and possible re-infections I might have to deal with. I alerted the breeder and she informed me that she gave Panacur to the whole litter twice before they came to us. Which doesn't make sense how they could have Giardia now... Our vet gave us Panacur to treat them both once a day for four days but did not mention anything about cleaning/disinfecting anything. I'm confused. I called the vet back and asked some follow-up questions and they seemed pretty nonchalant about the whole thing, saying I should scoop their poops when I see them, and maybe wipe their rear end after they go but that I didn't have to go crazy with cleaning. This seems to be the opposite advice from things I've been reading on this site and others... What gives? I'm not sure how to proceed. I'm worried that the Panacur isn't working and that this will be a constant cycle... Help!

What is your experience with Giardia in kittens? Is it really a big deal? Our vet said around 80% of the puppies and kittens they see have Giardia at some point. What are the chances of us becoming infected by playing with them, letting them lick us, etc?
 

Mamanyt1953

Rules my home with an iron paw
Staff Member
Forum Helper
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
31,173
Purraise
67,767
Location
North Carolina
First, the chance of you catching Girardia from you kittens is small. The strain that humans catch is subtly different from the cat strain. It is possible, but not probable. It is spread through infected feces, almost always, so thoroughly wash your hands after cleaning the litter box, etc.

As for cleaning, be rigorous about cleaning things that come into contact with feces, and with washing food and water bowls, if nothing else. If they have accidents outside of the box, disinfect those thoroughly. Butt-wiping is probably your best friend when it comes to not having infected feces spread around. Most of the people I know have dealt with this somewhere between the "OH MY GOD I'M BOILING THE ENTIRE HOUSE!" and your vet's rather too-lackadaisical attude of "don't really bother" schools of thought. My best advice, clean well and thoroughly, but don't make yourself paranoid about it.
 

kashmir64

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Apr 9, 2017
Messages
5,480
Purraise
9,888
Location
Arizona
I had 3 kittens get Giardia at the same time. I have had no re-infections from it. But I did do a lot of cleaning and disinfecting. First you should know that only bleach or ammonia will kill giardia. Choose one, never mix them, or you will die. Also, hot soapy water. If you clean their butts, then put the cloth in the wash on HOT with soap. What I did for the litterbox (keep in mind, they were only 4 weeks and on clay litter) I dumped the box, washed with antibacterial soap, sprayed it with ammonia then washed again. Sometimes twice a day. It was a roasting pan since they were so small and didn't hold a lot of litter anyway.
Your vet only gave you 4 days? Maybe he thought it was in early stages or something weird.
As far as you getting it. Yes, it has happened, but it's not very common. Just be sure to wash your hands in hot soapy water after handling them and you should be fine. No one else in my home got it, including the old man Beagle who's immune system is not so great.
Clean up and disinfecting is the key to not having a reinfection.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4

freddie.and.ramona

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Jan 8, 2018
Messages
30
Purraise
11
First, the chance of you catching Girardia from you kittens is small. The strain that humans catch is subtly different from the cat strain. It is possible, but not probable. It is spread through infected feces, almost always, so thoroughly wash your hands after cleaning the litter box, etc.

As for cleaning, be rigorous about cleaning things that come into contact with feces, and with washing food and water bowls, if nothing else. If they have accidents outside of the box, disinfect those thoroughly. Butt-wiping is probably your best friend when it comes to not having infected feces spread around. Most of the people I know have dealt with this somewhere between the "OH MY GOD I'M BOILING THE ENTIRE HOUSE!" and your vet's rather too-lackadaisical attude of "don't really bother" schools of thought. My best advice, clean well and thoroughly, but don't make yourself paranoid about it.
Thank you so much for your reply! Definitely put my mind at ease. I have been swapping out their litter boxes each day (since I had two to begin with) and replacing with new litter after spraying and rinsing with bleach. I've also been switching out their food/water bowls daily and cleaning with hot soapy water in between. I haven't done much in the way of disinfecting their sleeping areas or their fabric toys. They have the run of the house so they have slept on lots of surfaces. I'm not sure what your suggestion for these items are. Some seem to think these are low risk and some seem to think they definitely need to be cleaned. Would love to hear your thoughts on that as well. Thanks again!
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5

freddie.and.ramona

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Jan 8, 2018
Messages
30
Purraise
11
I had 3 kittens get Giardia at the same time. I have had no re-infections from it. But I did do a lot of cleaning and disinfecting. First you should know that only bleach or ammonia will kill giardia. Choose one, never mix them, or you will die. Also, hot soapy water. If you clean their butts, then put the cloth in the wash on HOT with soap. What I did for the litterbox (keep in mind, they were only 4 weeks and on clay litter) I dumped the box, washed with antibacterial soap, sprayed it with ammonia then washed again. Sometimes twice a day. It was a roasting pan since they were so small and didn't hold a lot of litter anyway.
Your vet only gave you 4 days? Maybe he thought it was in early stages or something weird.
As far as you getting it. Yes, it has happened, but it's not very common. Just be sure to wash your hands in hot soapy water after handling them and you should be fine. No one else in my home got it, including the old man Beagle who's immune system is not so great.
Clean up and disinfecting is the key to not having a reinfection.
3 kittens at the same time.... I feel for you. Two is bad enough and they are asymtomatic. I have been doing similarly to you with their litter boxes, but only once a day. They share one box so I dump the litter at night, bleach it, rinse it, and give them a fresh box with fresh litter and on and on... I thought the standard protocol for Panacur (which I believe is fenbendazole) was 5 days but even on the box it says 3 days. Not sure. How long did you keep up this strict cleaning regimen? Did you do it just until the rounds of treatment were finished or for several weeks after as well? I read that Giardia can live in the environment for up to a month! Hoping I don't have to keep this all up for a month!
 

kashmir64

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Apr 9, 2017
Messages
5,480
Purraise
9,888
Location
Arizona
Actually Giardia can live in the environment for a year. When mine first got it, they were not using the litter box yet. But they still had it once they learned the litter box. Little back story. They were only around 14 days when they came down with it. The shelter didn't do a test, so they medicated for Coccidia. After 5 days with no results, they were put on 7 days of Panacur and 10 days of Amoxicillin. So, this went on for some time.
I did continue the disinfecting for another week after the symptoms stopped, just to be on the safe side. I really didn't want a re-infection.
For your little ones: I would take all the soft toys and bedding and throw them in the wash on the HOT cycle. For the furniture on mine, I sprayed everything down with ammonia since it doesn't stain. However, since you have already used bleach, you don't want to spray the same places with ammonia. If you've only used bleach on the litter box and food bowls, then you will be safe with ammonia on the floor and furniture. You could also steam clean if you have the resources to do it. If you decide to use ammonia, only a 10% solution, not full strength.
Chances are your furniture and carpet are safe, but do you want to take that chance?

Edited to add: Just in case you didn't think of it. Make sure the kittens are no where around the area if you spray ammonia. Ventilate well and don't let the kittens back in until it's dry and safe.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7

freddie.and.ramona

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Jan 8, 2018
Messages
30
Purraise
11
Actually Giardia can live in the environment for a year.
For your little ones: I would take all the soft toys and bedding and throw them in the wash on the HOT cycle. For the furniture on mine, I sprayed everything down with ammonia since it doesn't stain. However, since you have already used bleach, you don't want to spray the same places with ammonia. If you've only used bleach on the litter box and food bowls, then you will be safe with ammonia on the floor and furniture. You could also steam clean if you have the resources to do it. If you decide to use ammonia, only a 10% solution, not full strength.
Chances are your furniture and carpet are safe, but do you want to take that chance?

Edited to add: Just in case you didn't think of it. Make sure the kittens are no where around the area if you spray ammonia. Ventilate well and don't let the kittens back in until it's dry and safe.
A year! Great...!

Thanks for the extra tips. We might have to end up doing two rounds of Panacur because we are going on a trip at the end of the week and have to leave them with a sitter (they always pick the best timing, don't they?). They're staying at her place as we can't trust them alone in ours yet, and while they won't be around other animals, I'm not sure how recent she has had other cats/dogs there. So might do another round in 10 or so days to be on the safe side. Do you recommend laundering everything (blankets, toys, etc) on the last day of treatment? Wish we could wash everyday but we don't have a washing machine in the house- have to go to the laundromat. Thanks!!
 

kashmir64

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Apr 9, 2017
Messages
5,480
Purraise
9,888
Location
Arizona
I was changing their bedding and doing laundry twice a day, for about a week after. BUT, my kittens were very young and contained to a pet playpen most of the time. Only coming out of it 3 times a day for about an hour each time. The playpen was thick with blankets and towels. So my case was a bit different in that aspect.
I wouldn't worry too much about your sitters past pets. Once a pet has a healthy immune system, Giardia normally doesn't affect them.
Dealing with Giardia via a laundromat is going to be tuff. Maybe you can soak the items in a tub with hot soapy water and hang to dry. If it's not too cold, hang them outside where the sun can hit it. Neither Giardia nor Coccidia can withstand much heat. Which is where a dryer comes in.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9

freddie.and.ramona

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Jan 8, 2018
Messages
30
Purraise
11
I was changing their bedding and doing laundry twice a day, for about a week after. BUT, my kittens were very young and contained to a pet playpen most of the time. Only coming out of it 3 times a day for about an hour each time. The playpen was thick with blankets and towels. So my case was a bit different in that aspect.
I wouldn't worry too much about your sitters past pets. Once a pet has a healthy immune system, Giardia normally doesn't affect them.
Dealing with Giardia via a laundromat is going to be tuff. Maybe you can soak the items in a tub with hot soapy water and hang to dry. If it's not too cold, hang them outside where the sun can hit it. Neither Giardia nor Coccidia can withstand much heat. Which is where a dryer comes in.
Makes sense, my little ones do have the run of the house but the only blankets they really spend time in are the ones they sleep in (which I'm planning on washing and replacing). They walk over our rugs but I've been vacuuming those daily. Other than that, we have wood floors throughout with no carpet. Does a kitten being asymptomatic (ie, no throwing up, and normal BM's- no diarrhea) make them less likely to recontaminate themselves? They are cats and naturally groom themselves after they use the box, both on their feet and rear end and I feel like there's nothing I can do about it since we work all day and aren't always there to stop them. Praying their immune systems can conquer this!
 

kashmir64

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Apr 9, 2017
Messages
5,480
Purraise
9,888
Location
Arizona
If the cysts were present then I don't think that NOT having diarrhea has much to do with it. The good thing with it is that the feces are going to be contained in the litter box and not all over the place. If you are around when they get out of the box, and it were me, I would take a washrag with hot water and just wipe their feet and butt. Not boiling, but hot. Then rinse the rag in hot water to kill the protozoa. This would make the containment much easier.
 

kashmir64

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Apr 9, 2017
Messages
5,480
Purraise
9,888
Location
Arizona
I'm thinking that since you are only on a 4 day Panacur, no antibiotics, no diarrhea and you're not gagging from the smell when they poop, then you caught it very early. This is probably why your vet said not to worry about disinfecting. I do believe that the chance of reinfection is very small, however, precautions need to be taken to ensure this.
Just relax a little. Make sure to keep their area, them and your hands clean and you will be fine.
 

Mamanyt1953

Rules my home with an iron paw
Staff Member
Forum Helper
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
31,173
Purraise
67,767
Location
North Carolina
I think that with kashmir64 kashmir64 's experience and advice, you have what you need to get this whipped! Keep us posted on how they (and you!) are doing, please.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13

freddie.and.ramona

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Jan 8, 2018
Messages
30
Purraise
11
Thanks so much!! Your insight has been really helpful. The test they did was a float test and something called a SNAP test. The float test (for cysts) came back negative for the one sample, but positive for the protein antigen that indicates a Giardia infection. So it's hit or miss. Vet explained that not all stool samples contain cysts even if they are actively being shed, but also that the protein presence could either mean it is a current or past infection. So it's kind of unclear, but they wanted to treat with the Panacur anyway since their immune systems are not very strong yet. Im hoping that means it's either a very mild infection (beginning or ending) or possible even the remnants of a past one. But seeing as the boy was *occasionally* having lose stools I'm thinking it could still have been affecting them in some way. Definitely not the horrific smelly stuff I've heard about! Thank god...
 
Top