Oreo Has Diabetes

ginny · Apr 28, 2017

LTS3 said:
No, my cat never got off insulin but he was happy and more or less healthy and that was really all that matter to me. He passed away 4 years after the diabetes diagnosis from sudden health issues.

If you don't mind, I'd like to ask a few more questions here. I'm just trying to understand why you weren't able to get him off insulin. Were you not able to reduce his carbs? Or was he very stubborn and resistant about trying low carb canned food?

cat princesses · Apr 28, 2017

I'm just learning myself but I believe if you catch the diabetes early, there isn't as much damage done to the pancreas so there is a chance if you get the body regulated with insulin therapy that the pancreas can start making insulin on it's own again. If it's been a longer period of time, sometimes the animal needs help with insulin for life. I just joined the diabetic cat support group and they are a great resource and very knowledgeable.

LTS3 · Apr 28, 2017

ginny said:
If you don't mind, I'd like to ask a few more questions here. I'm just trying to understand why you weren't able to get him off insulin. Were you not able to reduce his carbs? Or was he very stubborn and resistant about trying low carb canned food?

Some diabetic cats will always be insulin dependent, just like some Human diabetics. Their pancrease just won't produce natural insulin and maybe genetics plays a role. My cat ate low carb canned food just fine. We tried 3 different insulins and as much as 4 units BID. We did have times where the blood glucose levels were well regulated but then they'd go up again. It would have been nice to achieve remission but all I wanted was a cat who was more or less regulated with insulin and diet. Newbies often only focus on acheiving remission as quickly as possible but sometimes the cat's body just won't cooperate.

ginny · Apr 28, 2017

cat princesses said:
I'm just learning myself but I believe if you catch the diabetes early, there isn't as much damage done to the pancreas so there is a chance if you get the body regulated with insulin therapy that the pancreas can start making insulin on it's own again. If it's been a longer period of time, sometimes the animal needs help with insulin for life. I just joined the diabetic cat support group and they are a great resource and very knowledgeable.

I quite like the YDC site, so far I have read a few of the articles written by Dr. Hodgekins who says she has achieved an 80% success rate with TR or tight regulation. While 80 isn't 100, it's sure better than zero! I'm hoping I caught Oreo's DM in time to get him off the insulin. I've known some humans with long-standing diabetes which went into remission (not cured, just remission) with diet and weight loss. I'm hoping the same will be true with Oreo!

ginny · Apr 28, 2017

LTS3 said:
Some diabetic cats will always be insulin dependent, just like some Human diabetics. Their pancrease just won't produce natural insulin and maybe genetics plays a role. My cat ate low carb canned food just fine. We tried 3 different insulins and as much as 4 units BID. We did have times where the blood glucose levels were well regulated but then they'd go up again. It would have been nice to achieve remission but all I wanted was a cat who was more or less regulated with insulin and diet. Newbies often only focus on acheiving remission as quickly as possible but sometimes the cat's body just won't cooperate.

I understand about type 1 and type 2 in humans. I understand I have more to learn about correcting their diet, especially extrapolating what I know about DM in humans to cats, but inferring that I am a "newbie" is simply not correct/applicable in my case. Thanks for explaining though.

LTS3 · Apr 28, 2017

That was a general statement about many newbies, not an inference to you. I apologize if it came across the wrong way.

ruthm · Apr 29, 2017

ginny said:
I guess I'm going to have to take him in on Thursday. He won't let me test him I gave up after a few tries. I don't want to teach him to run from me because I stil need to give him his shots. Well, I wanted a glucometer for myself anyway since at last check I was pre-diabetic. So I've got it.

Are you offering low carb treats with each shot and every time you attempt to test his blood glucose? My Tiger loved freeze dried chicken Pure Bites and dried bonito flakes sprinkled on her Wellness Salmon and turkey wet food, for example. I would offer a treat every time you attempt to test or give a shot, especially if you aren't successful, and try to test at the same place every time, such as the kitchen or bathroom counter, it's easier on your back. Pretty soon, your kitty will get used to the routine, they are far more adaptable than we think. (My girl Tiger was a fairly well-regulated diabetic for 2 years before she succumbed to pancreatic cancer)

p.s. Relion micro glucometer requires the smallest amount of blood.

ginny · Apr 29, 2017

ruthm said:
Are you offering low carb treats with each shot and every time you attempt to test his blood glucose? My Tiger loved freeze dried chicken Pure Bites and dried bonito flakes sprinkled on her Wellness Salmon and turkey wet food, for example. I would offer a treat every time you attempt to test or give a shot, especially if you aren't successful, and try to test at the same place every time, such as the kitchen or bathroom counter, it's easier on your back. Pretty soon, your kitty will get used to the routine, they are far more adaptable than we think. (My girl Tiger was a fairly well-regulated diabetic for 2 years before she succumbed to pancreatic cancer)

p.s. Relion micro glucometer requires the smallest amount of blood.

I haven't tried the low carb treats in quite a while because they would not even try them. Maybe now they will. Good idea about offering the treat regardless if he let's me test him or not. I've been faithfully petting him on his head and trying to rub his ears to get him used to that. Tonight he let me rub one ear for about a second, so that's progress! Baby steps. So I will try those treats again and see how he does.

I wish I'd known about the Relion. Actually the One Touch requires very little blood. I've tested myself with just a teensy drop. I'm so sorry about your kitty Tiger!

ginny · May 5, 2017

I GOT HIM!!! I lured him with the Bonito flakes (which Ruth and Miss M recommended) which I just got today. Oreo and Honey LOVE them - and then I put him up on the bathroom counter again with a flake. He seemed to hate being restrained more than the needle prick to his ear! I have a One Touch and it took only a teeny drop of blood.

His result was 338

Well that's better than 430 or 460 like it was before he started on insulin.

He's been on all wet, no dry, for about 36 hours now but has had no insulin since yesterday morning (per TR by Dr. Hodgekins). I really expected better results from being off the dry food already. But I know I'm being impatient.

The kitties are missing their kibble but they are adjusting. Oreo is adjusting better than Nat.

ginny · May 5, 2017

I may buy stock in Bonito flakes. It's like kitty Crack!

ruthm · May 5, 2017

Hooray!!! And congrats!!! Now take a DEEP breath, and another!! This will get easier! I am so glad to hear your kitties love the bonito flakes too...I personally knew lots of other Sugar-Cat Moms who had to use the Kitty-burrito technique to give shots and draw blood for the tests, not fun at all. One other thing, be sure to pile on the PURRAAIISE9as well as treats!) for Oreo each time you test or give a shot, whether you are successful or not somehow all kitties thrive on praise (and treats!) You may find our other cat will expect treats and this is OK!

Regarding the high numbers, it's only a number, it is not the whole picture,try to look at the whole picture- is he purring. preening, playing (and pooping)- these are the important things. I'm sure you know this but I will say it anyway--Oreo didn't become diabetic overnight, and he will likely not go into remission overnight either. Diabetes is a long distance marathon, not a short sprint, but your patience will be rewarded. Every single cat mom I know has said their sugar kitties have been the most extra special kitties - that bond can never be broken.

On the other hand, if you get a really wonky test number, don't hesitate to test again, too much or too little blood can skew the numbers. Continued good luck and again, congrats on your patience and home testing, it is the most important way to protect your kitty!

ginny said:
I GOT HIM!!! I lured him with the Bonito flakes (which Ruth and Miss M recommended) which I just got today. Oreo and Honey LOVE them - and then I put him up on the bathroom counter again with a flake. He seemed to hate being restrained more than the needle prick to his ear! I have a One Touch and it took only a teeny drop of blood.

His result was 338 Well that's better than 430 or 460 like it was before he started on insulin.

He's been on all wet, no dry, for about 36 hours now but has had no insulin since yesterday morning (per TR by Dr. Hodgekins). I really expected better results from being off the dry food already. But I know I'm being impatient.

The kitties are missing their kibble but they are adjusting. Oreo is adjusting better than Nat.

ginny · May 5, 2017

Thank you!! I never even noticed Bonito flakes at the store before, but seriously, I'm going to have to get a bag for every room! They've taken to it better than they did to Temptations treats! I'm so glad you reminded me about them. I'm going to have to read the bag and see how much I should limit them to! Kitty crack!

On the other hand, when I put out the PureBites, Oreo wanted none of it. Honey tried to eat it and ended up using it like a hockey puck, lol.

Well, one out of two ain't bad.

cat princesses · May 6, 2017

Great to hear! I also found getting an old ankle sock and putting rice in it and tying it up makes a great rice sock. I warm it for about 20 seconds in the microwave and test it on myself first to make sure it's not too warm - I use that on the ear to warm it up - that really makes it easy to get a drop of blood quickly for the reading.

ginny · May 6, 2017

This morning his bg was 393 and tonight 422. I gave 2 units Pzi this morning and 3 units just now. His number can't keep going up like this - it's got to get under control! I'm really worried. His poor ears look butchered. Only the first time did I only stick once. Ever since then it's taken 5 sticks to get blood. And I have to hang on for dear life to him because if he gets down off the counter I may not get him back. He seems calmer and seems to know I'm doing something FOR him to help, espeically with those bonito flakes. Monday mornign I will take him i'll take him in to be admitted if need be, this can't continue. What am I doing wrong? No dry food since 2 whole mornings ago and only less than 10% carb wet food since. I'm really stressed.

cat princesses · May 6, 2017

I think you should be posting in the diabetic cat group, I think you're a member there right? I'd really try the rice sock, warming the ear helps tremendously. Also, are you sure your landing in the sweet spot area? Look for the vessels at the outer rim of the ear and go to the outside edge of those. Remember to hold a Kleenex or paper towel after to clot the blood. Try watching some you tubes as well I think I searched how to check glucose in diabetic cat I found lots of videos. Also remember your cat may or may not go into remission. It totally depends on how long they've been diabetic. It certainly won't happen overnight. I'd focus questions with the other group, they can help you more since that's their specialty.

ginny · May 6, 2017

I am posting over there I just needed to vent its almost midnight here and I need sleep to work tomorrow but will test one more time

ginny · May 7, 2017

So at midnight his BG came down to 336 - 2 hrs after onset - peaks in 4.

This a.m. it was 260! Still high, but going in the right direction at least.

They are flat cleaning their bowls and they never much did that before. I opened yet another can for them after Oreo's midnight BG. So thank goodness nobody's starving.

arouetta · May 7, 2017

Special test strips are so not necessary. Also the name brand glucose meters have stupid expensive strips; the best route is to go to a pharmacy like RiteAid or CVS and get the store brand meter. The store brand meters are just as accurate, and you would be paying roughly $25 instead of $125-$160 for a 100 count box of test strips. The only downside is that you are tied to that pharmacy chain for the strips.

When counting carbs, remember to subtract out fiber. Fiber doesn't count when figuring out the carb content.

arouetta · May 7, 2017

ginny said:
This morning his bg was 393 and tonight 422. I gave 2 units Pzi this morning and 3 units just now. His number can't keep going up like this - it's got to get under control! I'm really worried. His poor ears look butchered. Only the first time did I only stick once. Ever since then it's taken 5 sticks to get blood. And I have to hang on for dear life to him because if he gets down off the counter I may not get him back. He seems calmer and seems to know I'm doing something FOR him to help, espeically with those bonito flakes. Monday mornign I will take him i'll take him in to be admitted if need be, this can't continue. What am I doing wrong? No dry food since 2 whole mornings ago and only less than 10% carb wet food since. I'm really stressed.

Are you using Vaseline on the edge of the ear prior to sticking it? If not, try that since it allows the blood to bead rather than get absorbed into the fur.

pipperoo · May 7, 2017

Good luck with all of this - I know its stressful. I went through the same with my cat a few years ago. I was able to get her off of insulin after 4 months or so. She was kibble cat and so the transition to wet wasn't easy. Definitely sprinkling food with crushed kibble, bonita flakes, freeze-dried chicken, FortiFlora etc was necessary.

My vet definitely wanted fructosamine tested as well because of stress can cause an elevated BS reading at the vet.

At home, the vet encouraged me to test her blood, and demonstrated how to "free-hand" with a lancet. Well - forget that!! I was nervous, my cat was a hyper-scaredy cat so it was a complete failure and my cat was starting to hide from me. I had instant and continued success with the warm rice-sock (my cat LOVED having that stroked against her ears) and then a quick dart with an automatic lancet and I swear, she NEVER ever noticed. I could test her blood several times a day with nary a whisker twitch. giving the insulin was not well received however......

I used the AlphaTrak blood glucose tester, test strips, auto lancet. I know that cat-specific gear definitely is not necessary and most people I know recommend generic store-brand kits. I used AlphaTrak's downloadable graph/food diary which was gratifying when her BG starting remaining in the normal zone. I felt very accomplished!

I do know that I was in an absolute panic after reading some diabetic cat boards. I think they were too intense for me with lots of warnings and strong advice. I honestly thought that my cat's life was in danger and that I would never be able to leave the house again! I know everyone means well, but it just got me really scared. I took a deep breath and did the best I could and it all worked out in the end.

Good luck with everything - it sounds like everything will go well for you and Oreo.

Oreo Has Diabetes

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