Supplementing with raw?

jezahb

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Ok, first of all I free feed. If you are ok with this skip to the second paragraph. I know all the pros and cons (I know most of you just think there are cons) but in all my life of having cats I free fed and never once had a fat cat or cat with diabetes. So don't try and convince me to schedule feed because even if you did convince me it was healthier, my schedule just doesn't allow for it. Plus I really REALLY hate how schedule fed cats act, always being affectionate in hopes of getting fed...just no. I like knowing when my cat comes to me for lovings and pets she is doing it because she actually loves me and isn't trying to convince me to feed her. 

So, I am looking to supplement my cats grain-free dry food (Earthborn Holistics Primitive Feline) with some raw food in between. I know the benefits of raw and plus my youngest girl kitty loves chewing on EVERYTHING so I thought maybe chewy raw food would make her happy. So my question is, what is an easy and readily available thing to start with? Something also that is very tempting since both of my girls have been on dry food with wet food (usually EVO 98% meat canned) on occasion. So raw food will be totally new to them. Also my older girl has bad teeth, both of my girls are part Siamese but Lexi got the bad teeth which according to my vet is typical of meezers. My girls btw are 2 years old and 7 years old. 

Suggestions?
 

vball91

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As long as the raw food is less than 15% of their total diet, you can supplement with any raw meat you think they will like. If you want the raw to be more than 15%, then you need a complete and balanced food. The easiest thing would be a commercial raw food. You can learn to balance it yourself, but if you're just supplementing, it may not be worth it.

I would try some raw chicken first and see how they like it.
 

easybee

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The Holisticat site advocates what they call whole prey....

They have a lot of good info...and tell you how to get them to eat it...

and what to feed...

I don't feed that way...I feed only raw ground..but I do leave it out......I know they say pick it up after a short while..but I never have..and no one has ever gotten sick...from spoiled ...however..when I fix it ..it has just come in fresh that day at the grocery store...and I  grind and freeze it that day or lastest the next..so it is not ready to spoil....in other words. ...when I thaw each morning......if I have to take out another bag and some is left over from the day...it goes in the ****..but nothing is left in there any longer than over night...and fed the next morning..and a new one is thawed ...

Bev
 

LTS3

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So, I am looking to supplement my cats grain-free dry food (Earthborn Holistics Primitive Feline) with some raw food in between. I know the benefits of raw and plus my youngest girl kitty loves chewing on EVERYTHING so I thought maybe chewy raw food would make her happy. So my question is, what is an easy and readily available thing to start with?
Maybe commercial raw pet food. There are various brands you can find in the pet store. You can even buy frozen raw bones at the pet store. Or you can just go to the supermarket or butcher shop and buy some raw chicken necks or gizzards or hearts or whole cuts of meat (poultry breast, thigh, etc) and cut it up yourself into cat-sized chunks.

I wouldn't feed more than 10% raw if you are also feeding commercial dry and canned food. Use safe raw meat handling practices when feeding your cats , ie don't leave raw meat out all day, wash bowls in hot soapy water, etc.
 

sophie1

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Thank you for posting, Bev!  It is really nice to hear from someone who has been doing this for 12 years.  In the back of my mind has been this tiny worry that boards like this are naturally excluding people who stopped feeding raw because something went wrong, either food-borne illness or a nutritional deficiency that took years to show up.  My sister stopped feeding her dog raw because of a particularly nasty stomach ailment that my brother-in-law got, even though they never established what caused it or if it was related to the raw food.

Do you feed only chicken, and do the chickens contain all the "parts"?  Also, it sounds like you put out food once a day and just leave it out all day for the cats to nibble on?  That's essentially what I do except that I haven't quite gotten up the nerve to put out food just once a day.  I refill the bowl at least twice a day and also use a chilled bowl to keep the food fresh.  That said, however, free feeding really seems to work very well for the cats (and for me as well!) and there's been no issues even when sometimes they've eaten food that's been out for more than a day.  I do need to be careful about food sources though.

LTS3, you could try just putting out some raw food for your cats alongside the kibble and see what happens.  Commercial raw products that are either high pressure pasteurized (Stella and Chewy's, Nature Variety, Primal) or tested for common pathogens (Bravo) might be good to start with.  Nature Variety does both, but I have not had good experiences with their "raw bites" because they get freezer burned very easily and it usually happens before you buy it.  My cats strongly prefer food that doesn't contain fruits/veggies, so the only commercial food I get for them is freeze dried Stella and Chewys or the Primal Grinds in chubs.  The latter need to be supplemented if you feed as more than 15% of the diet.  Also be aware that only the chicken and turkey are high pressure pasteurized. If you want to feed them something they can chew, you might try Primal's chicken necks, if you can find them.  Also I've had good luck with buying things like locally produced pork or beef tongue or heart from farmer's markets - super fresh, high quality, and price is reasonable.  And my cats love it - whenever I put that down it doesn't stay uneaten for long!
 

Freedom

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This thread is just what I was looking for.  I also feed Earthborn Holistics grain free formulas, and want to supplement (for now) with raw.  Eventually I want to get away from the dry kibble.

The info in this thread, especially that posted by sophie, is really helpful!
 
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jezahb

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This is a very helpful thread, and because of the info provided I found some good sites that sell whole prey ground meat. Literally it is all ground up in there, and they even sell Guinea Pigs (which actually made me sad) but the Rabbit sounded much more appealing. On a hint from another thread I also picked up some dehydrated rabbit ears for them to play with/chew/eat...and it was interesting. My youngest little smoosh monster Khaleesi will NOT eat raw or the rabbit ears, so that is an annoying challenge since at 2 she was really the one I wanted to get started eating raw to help support her throughout what is hopefully going to be a long life. However my older girl Lexi, who is 7 actually LOVES the raw chicken and rabbit ears. She has been on free feed and occasional wet food her whole life same as Khaleesi so I have no idea why she is so much more taken with it.

I will be picking up chicken necks next time I go to the butcher and remember to ask, those do sound like a good option to experiment with for Khaleesi at least. Only good sign is Khaleesi likes PureBites dehydrated chicken breast treats so I think if I got her really fresh raw chicken (the stuff I gave them may have had some freezerburn) she may take to it better.
 
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Freedom

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When you give chicken necks, do you give it whole?  Or do you cut it in pieces?  Or do you have the butcher chop it?  If you do it at home, what sort of knife would I use?

I did set down a whole neck about a year ago.  It sat there for 2 days, and I ended up throwing it out.  The cats would sniff at it, but they didn't seem to have any idea it was food.  I'm thinking if I set smaller pieces that may be easier for them?
 

ritz

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Chicken necks are fairly long, big and hard.
I would cut it up in pieces, you need a strong, sturdy pair of scissors or knife. Or, put the necks in a plastic bag and hammer it (yes, hammer). That will break up the pieces.
On the other hand, you might start out with a chicken wing, the smallest part, and see what your cat does with it.
I fed prey model raw. I use to feed commercial raw, but didn't like having to make a special trip to an independent pet food store. (This was before I learned about Hare Today and other mail order sites.)
PMR suits my lifestyle more; I buy the parts at regular grocery stores. I finally have a freezer, so when Hare Today has an extra special sale, I might order some.
 

pinkdagger

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The hammer is such a great idea! I've given our cats some necks that I've just cut into quarters after a long arduous chopping process with a very obvious non-butcher-knife, but Kismet can't eat them that big so I can tr that to let her enjoy them too.
 

Freedom

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I was wondering about a hammer, ha haa.

While I was out shopping today, I bought some chicken liver, some chicken strips (meant for stir fry), and some wings.  My dogs eat a noon, so they got a bit of raw liver with their meal.  3 of the 4 ate it right up.  Nice day here, I'll have them outside with a wing apiece this afternoon.  I feed the cats morning and evening, so tonight they will get some raw liver, chicken strips and wings.  I may take the hammer to the wings for them.  I'm not worried about balance for now, as I can't go completely raw.  This will be a treat for them. 

Seems  I can just give them the wings, I do not need to remove the skin?  This should be interesting!

L
 

ritz

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For the wings, you do not need to remove the skin (it might be difficult). Do know that chicken skin is some of the fattiest skin around, so you might want to try to remove some of the skin if weight is an issue.
Just a word of warning about chicken strips or, really, any meat: make sure the meat is not enhanced with either sugar or salt. If the salt content is higher than 100 mg per serving, then the meat by definition has been enhanced, and should be avoid.
 

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My Charli LOVES chicken necks....but I'm a big chicken to give them to her in chunks, so I smash 'em to smitherines with a rubber mallet while they are in a plastic bag.  Funny. now soon as she hears the banging she comes tearing into the kitchen to get her yummies.  I smash smash and then cut into manageable pieces.  She loves them, and the crunching is good for her jaw muscles.  She's 8 months old now, she's a good size kitty, 8.8 lbs today, and I'm still afraid to give her big pieces, although I'm sure she could handle them...I just get too freaked out about choking...
 

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I tried chicken wings and necks with my two, and they liked the necks (after I smashed them up with a hammer) but wouldn't touch the wings.  However, they readily eat the bony parts of chicken breasts.  I buy bone-in breasts, cut off most of the breast meat to cook for myself, and cut the rest into pieces to feed my cats.

However, the rabbit chunks from Hare Today are considered by my cats to be the ultimate treat.  I put those out and they're gone in minutes...sometimes with a very well polished bone left over, if it was too big to eat.  A word of warning, inspect to find the chunk containing liver.  If you gave your cat the whole liver at once there might be poopy mess to deal with afterwards.

None of which has prevented one of my cats from developing gingivitis though.  Since I have to brush their teeth every day anyway, I'm not bothering anymore with the bone-in treats.  Except for the rabbit chunks just because they love them so much!
 

starbuk

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I tried chicken wings and necks with my two, and they liked the necks (after I smashed them up with a hammer) but wouldn't touch the wings.  However, they readily eat the bony parts of chicken breasts.  I buy bone-in breasts, cut off most of the breast meat to cook for myself, and cut the rest into pieces to feed my cats.



However, the rabbit chunks from Hare Today are considered by my cats to be the ultimate treat.  I put those out and they're gone in minutes...
Snip
None of which has prevented one of my cats from developing gingivitis though.  Since I have to brush their teeth every day anyway, I'm not bothering anymore with the bone-in treats.  Except for the rabbit chunks just because they love them so much!
Bones don't clean teeth, it is the tough red meats like beef and steak that require the most chewing and are best for cleaning teeth. Bones simply break and are ingested, meat requires work.
 

furmonster mom

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Bones don't clean teeth, it is the tough red meats like beef and steak that require the most chewing and are best for cleaning teeth. Bones simply break and are ingested, meat requires work.
Sorry, but I strongly disagree. 

Dense meats such as beef or gizzards may require more jaw action, but that does not necessarily mean the teeth are being cleaned.  It does translate to a stronger jaw and possibly healthier gums (due to pressure stimulation).

Bones DO indeed help keep teeth clean.  It's the scraping action, as the cat works the meat off and when bones are cracked into particles, that keeps the tartar away.
 

starbuk

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Sorry, but I strongly disagree. 
Dense meats such as beef or gizzards may require more jaw action, but that does not necessarily mean the teeth are being cleaned.  It does translate to a stronger jaw and possibly healthier gums (due to pressure stimulation).

Bones DO indeed help keep teeth clean.  It's the scraping action, as the cat works the meat off and when bones are cracked into particles, that keeps the tartar away.
No need to apologize. My cat eats chicken wings and other smaller bones which she mostly eats whole except for maybe a break or two. The knawing of meat off bone doesn't usually happen in the diet. She does most definitely have to sink her teeth over and over into the tough beef or pork to chew it before swallowing. No doubt that rubbing a bone against the teeth clean that tooth but I don't think it happens that often. In my mind the meat is the main driver of clean teeth and bones are second especially when you factor in that bones are only five to ten percent of diet.
 

furmonster mom

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Well then, I'd say that your observations do not match up with mine.

I feed whole chicken wings, including tips and drumettes, as well as necks, backs and ribs.  My cats definitely get a work out with their food, tearing the meat off and crunching the bones and cartilage up.

I've noticed that different bones break down into different types of particles.  Wings and drumettes break into "shards"; necks and backs break into more "kibble-ish" bits; and ribs tend to just break into flat bits that are easily swallowed without much work.  So, maybe it depends on the types of bones that are given.
 

ritz

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Some cats are predisposed to gingivitus, at least, that's what my vet said when Ritz had her second dental cleaning in around two years. In Ritz' case, it may be due to poor nutrition as a kitten; she and her litter mates (and mother cat) were dumped when they were around four months old. In November. And survived a 20" snow storm.
I've been feeding Raw (including bone) for about three years.
One of the reasons I fed bone is because it takes a millisecond longer for Ritz to chew bone; she INHALES her food. I mainly give her bone from quail and rabbit. I buy frozen and freeze the excess bone for later meals.
 

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Second that.  It's pretty clear that genetics are at work with my cats.

Undoubtedly, food that the cats have to gnaw on are helpful, and I do still give my cats some tough meats like gizzards, the rabbit chunks etc.  For some cats that will be enough, but mine need daily brushing plus application of Petzlife gel.  And one cat still has gum inflammation on one upper back tooth.  If it doesn't resolve he's probably going to end up needing a dental...before he turns 2 years old!  And both have been raw fed all their lives.  So unfortunately it's not a panacea.
 
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