Vet's Best Hairball Relief - Interesting observation

Well, I called the vet. $200 to shave the bellies if they need anesthetic to do it. Yep - Tuxedo would absolutely, 100% need anesthetic. The others... I don't know. Lazlo has had a lot of abdominal ultrasounds, I'll have to find out if he was anesthetized to do it. He's the one I worry about the most.

I don't know if anyone saw I posted about Tuxedo in the health forum a few weeks ago. I think. I might have just told Feralvr via PM. :lol3: Either way, he was eating litter, so I immediately thought he was anemic (having fought an autoimmune disease that causes anemia for 8 years).

Well - he wasn't.

Yet - he's still nibbling litter from time-to-time.

And Spooky has peed in the bathroom several times, yet has no blood or crystals in her urine, no infection. She is prone to both, but her pH is good.

And Lazlo has a plastic pica when his tummy doesn't feel well.

I finally "got" it when Tuxie threw up a hairball filled with litter (!!!!) yesterday.

Tuxie is eating litter because of the hairballs.

We KNOW Spooky also pees outside the box when something isn't "right." The last several times it was cystitis - before that, it was her teeth. This time, it coincided with .... hairballs.

And Lazlo's eating plastic again because of ... hairballs.

I'm going out of my mind here. I don't know what else to do, and I cannot afford $800. I can't afford $200.

We will take Lazlo, and see if it can be done without. THAT will cost $25. (A lion cut is only $50!). Maybe I should give them some of Gary's valium before we go.

I really am at a loss here. I decided to bring in grass for the boys to chomp. If they can bring up the hairballs, or if it will help them pass it, that's what they'd be doing rather than eating litter and plastic. So ... I'm going to let them have it. There are no pesticides use here ever, and the ferals chomp it all day long. Well - Smokey and Baloo do.

I brought in a bunch of long, fresh grass (we're rural, this is not "yard" grass). The three of them went to town and LOVED it. No one puked. I don't know how much or how often to feed, but I'll just follow Baloo and Smokey's lead. They chomp several strands at a time, many times a day. So that's what I'll let the boys do (Spooky doesn't want any). For her.... I just keep using the vaseline, I guess. :dk:

Did I mention I figured out how to get it in them when they need it? I put it in my Four Paws Easy Feeder syringe. And I squeeze out a small bit, and "dip" it in powdered freeze dried chicken liver (which they all love. OBviously anything could be used). And they lick it off. I just keep doing these little bits until they eat the amount I want them to have.

FYI, Tux and Shel are eating a full tablet of VB TWO times a day. Still getting the yolks, egg yolk lecithin, and SEB syrup now twice a day. I'll see if the grass stops the need for vaseline. :dk: Lazlo is only getting yolks, egg yolk lecithin, and SEB syrup, because I can't get the VB into him. Same for Spooky. Spook won't eat grass either, so.... I guess if I hear her hack, her appetite goes off, if she throws up undigested food, or she pees in the bathroom, I'll use the vaseline on her.

....or should I just use it as a preventative at this point? I'm really not sure.

This just so sucks.

LDG, I have all the supplements you listed and I often wonder if any or all of them cancel each other out.  I stopped all supplements due to diarrhea for both cats.  Luckily that issue seems to have passed and they are having normal BMs now.  It's been almost 2 weeks since their last hairball.  During this period, I brush thoroughly and give petroleum jelly every other day.  Now who knows...maybe they are fermenting gigantic hairballs ready for projectile vomiting any minute now...you never know with these critters.  But I'm definitely reluctant to re-start any of the supplements since we've been hair-ball free the last couple of weeks.  YMMV as my cats are DSH, though one has super fine soft hair.  I'm also lucky in that they will lick PJ off my finger.

   I can barely brush these bunch of gomers, much less run a damp cloth over them.

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Yeah, mine get nippy and whiny whenever I brush them.  But it's that or hairballs and I don't want hairball landmines on my carpet.  I can't brush their bellies and chests, sigh.  Yesterday, I dampened my hands instead of a towel and finger brushed them.  They wised up soon enough but I was able to pick up quite a bit before they ambled off.

How about some Nair on the belly?   Would just need to use one of those restraining collars until you could wash it off.

Gosh Laurie. I don't know what the heck is going on. I'm not really having a problem with hairballs in my three right now.    I have noticed some dry, hairy stools, so they are passing out the other end. Caesar is the only one getting the VB (1/2 tablet twice daily) and I think it is helping him with general GI health more than anything. Boo and Sebastian are not getting any hairball treatments. Sebastian grooms A LOT, but he doesn't really shed. Boo sheds terrible and will throw up a hairball occasionally, but nothing like what you guys are experiencing. He's the only one getting digestive enzymes separately.

While they each have their own specific regimes, what all three are getting right now is l-lysine (unlikely to help with hairballs), Pepcid AC, probiotics, a lot of fish oil, and some coconut oil. I think most of you are already adding fish oil to food, right? I was going to suggest doubling it, but I know most cats don't really like the fish oils and it makes the food stinky. How about letting them have some licks at Nutiva coconut oil? Some cats really like the taste; Sebastian and Caesar do. 

Just thinking out load and rambling...trying to help in some way.    

tdonline said:

LDG, I have all the supplements you listed and I often wonder if any or all of them cancel each other out.  I stopped all supplements due to diarrhea for both cats.  Luckily that issue seems to have passed and they are having normal BMs now.  It's been almost 2 weeks since their last hairball.  During this period, I brush thoroughly and give petroleum jelly every other day.  Now who knows...maybe they are fermenting gigantic hairballs ready for projectile vomiting any minute now...you never know with these critters.  But I'm definitely reluctant to re-start any of the supplements since we've been hair-ball free the last couple of weeks.  YMMV as my cats are DSH, though one has super fine soft hair.  I'm also lucky in that they will lick PJ off my finger.

Yeah, mine get nippy and whiny whenever I brush them.  But it's that or hairballs and I don't want hairball landmines on my carpet.  I can't brush their bellies and chests, sigh.  Yesterday, I dampened my hands instead of a towel and finger brushed them.  They wised up soon enough but I was able to pick up quite a bit before they ambled off.

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When the new Vet's Best arrived and they wouldn't eat it at first, I tried stopping everything, and feeding more ground food with real bone. That's when everything went crazy, and all four of them starting having major issues all at the same time and Tuxie started eating the litter again. That was a resounding "not successful." :lol3:

I added back the yolks and lecithin, and that slowed things down (which is normally how we control it completely). But Lazlo got blocked, and kept vomiting up food, undigested, hours after eating, and his appetite went kaput. So I started with the vaseline to at least get that one moving along.

I figured out how to get the VB into Shel and Tuxie. Shel seems OK now, though I did have to bump him from 1/2 a tablet 2x a day to a full tablet twice a day. But thank goodness, the last time he actually coughed up a hairball was ... 5 or 6 days ago now, I think. Maybe it just feels like it's been that long.

And they're not tossing them daily - it seems they're only tossing either a bunch of small ones or one big one every week (now). But they are clearly uncomfortable. And everyone but Tuxie has taken a severe blow to the appetite.

I'm brushing, using a damp paper towel - but I cannot get the belly on any of them with a brush, and I can get one or two quick wipes in with the damp towel daily.

Spooky seems to be coming back to herself. She ate a whole meal this morning and hasn't peed in the bathroom for several days now. :cross:

So at this point, Tuxie and Laz are the main concern.

goholistic , Lazlo was getting ranitidine. But I stopped it, thinking it was actually interfering by making his system less acidic than it needs to be - they are on all raw, so they need that acidity in the GI tract. The SEB syrup prevents the overnight bile build-up. (KNOCK WOOD).

I did change digestive enzymes, as the VB clearly has enzymes in it that work better than the Prozyme (Shel's ability to eat red meat). I decided the amount of protease has to be part of the issue - though don't really know. It is REALLY difficult to compare enyzmes as so many seem to "measure" the contents in different units that I don't understand (yet ). The Allzyme in the VB isn't sold retail that I've discovered. I didn't want to take too long figuring it out, as I was very low on Prozyme and didn't want them to go without, so I ordered ... Animal Essentials. It's got a much higher protease number than Prozyme per dose. Obviously protease wouldn't affect hair digestion (right? What would? I mean - hair is keratin and dead skin cells - "fibrous protein" - but obviously isn't digested as it gets passed essentially whole... :dk: ) but my thinking is that hopefully it improves overall digestion. I KNOW that they are anti-inflammatory. Perhaps I should be syringing larger doses on an empty stomach.

The bottom line.... obviously there is a motility issue in those four. Do they have ongoing issues with inflammation? Not that an x-ray or ultrasound see (Laz has had so many ultrasounds). But that doesn't mean it isn't there, I don't think.... But I just started Lazlo on curcumin, because I know it is VERY effective at reducing inflammation. So we'll see, I guess, if that impacts anything. It's good for him with its anti-oxidant properties anyway.

And they're all on probiotics.

As I generally have to syringe the SEB syrup into Spooky and Lazlo, I may just start crushing the VB into it and syringing it into them.

Well, Spooky's current problem is not hairballs. We took her to the vet as for the last few days she's just been very "off." Her throwing up undigested food made me think hairballs. But with hairballs, their behavior is otherwise usually rather normal. Last time I made this assumption, Lazlo was diagnosed with a massive cancerous mass in his stomach. So we took Spook for a check-up, x-ray, and blood work.

Her system is completely empty. If there were any hairball preventing food from moving through in her stomach, even though x-ray cannot see the hairball, her stomach would not be normally shaped for being empty.

On palpation, the vet felt several small lumps in her intestines. As the x-ray indicates they are empty, it is swollen lymph nodes, not poop.

Her intestines are thicker than they should be. Obviously the x-ray does not provide enough detail to know if inflammation or thickening.

We will wait for blood work tomorrow to decide whether to do ultrasound or not (though I'm thinking that's going to happen).

Obviously my mind thinks small cell intestinal lymphoma. But I know it can be IBD.

We are not starting her on any anti-inflammatories until we know whether or not we are looking at a biopsy.

They were able to shave her belly without any anesthesia. So that should go a long way to helping prevent any further hairballs.

We'll bring Lazlo and Shel in next week for belly shaves. Shel needs an annual and blood work anyway. That's scheduled for the 31st.

Oh no! Poor Spooky!    Why do you think lymphoma? Just naturally thinking the worst like we always do?    And how's her bladder at the moment? Might be good to take a look at that, too, via ultrasound since she has a history?    Sending lots of vibes for everyone! 

We're having the urinalysis run (again) - just because her bladder was full. :lol3: Bladder looked normal on x-ray, but yeah, if she's having an ultrasound, we'll probably have a look-see, just to make sure. Of course, if there are no crystals in her urine (still), then there'd really be no need for it. We just had this done (urinalysis, etc), so I'm not overly concerned about the urine and bladder.

Yeah, the thinking the worst thing. But swollen lymph nodes with "thicker than they should be" intestines? What is that? IBD or cancer, right? Of course IBD is possible. But there's really no reason for it. Not that it needs a reason....

OR.... I didn't even think to ask the vet this. Since she HAS been having issues with hairballs, can that irritant cause that?

Oh - well no - not the swollen lymph nodes.

I just have to wait to hear blood work results.

Sorry to derail the thread. I'll post a new thread in health when we have blood work results back.

You haven't derailed it.  I just haven't posted lately.  There was another hairball Wednesday.  It was Gadget, and it was after him ripping chunks of cardboard out with his teeth. 

I'm wondering if the timing in relation to food would make a difference? When do you give it to them? I've been feeding it to Shel and Tux after a meal. Perhaps it would work better if fed on an empty stomach.... and then followed by the SEB syrup with the extra water in it. :dk:

LDG said:

I'm wondering if the timing in relation to food would make a difference? When do you give it to them? I've been feeding it to Shel and Tux after a meal. Perhaps it would work better if fed on an empty stomach.... and then followed by the SEB syrup with the extra water in it.

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When do I give the VB or when do they throw up?  The VB they get in their evening meal and the vomiting seems to have no pattern.  It may be immediately after a meal, or 2 hours before.  You know, I give the hairball treats on an empty stomach, so you may be onto something.  Maybe I should try giving the VB on an empty stomach.  I have nothing to lose by trying!  I'm going to give the hairball treats tonight and start fresh tomorrow with giving VB at a different time from food.

Yeah, I meant the VB. I'm thinking it may be more effective on an empty stomach. I'm going to try that too.

FWIW, I give the VB to Caesar on an empty stomach, and I feed him about 30 minutes later.

OK! Schedule adjustment it is! :lol3:

Question about VB for kitties who are frequent vomiters:  how much Vet's Best do you give your cat?  Obi has continued to throw hair at least once a week.  The vet wants me to increase it to one tab twice a day.  Currently he is getting one tab, 1/2 twice a day; and this morning, I gave  him 3/4 of a tab.  How much do you need to dose your frequent vomiter of hair before you see better results?  I know the bottle says one pill twice a day.  

LDG said:

But yeah - large stool is better than frequent vomiting. I know someone that just had to put down their cat because the esophagus had become so scarred it only had a 0.2mm opening and she couldn't get food down - not even a liquid diet would go down/stay down!

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When I saw this post, that scared me. It's not unusual to find a hairball or small throw up 2-3 times a week. I definitely want to find something that will help stop this, because I had no idea that it could cause scarring and that badly!

I have a mortar and pestle also but frankly, a fork or a spoon works just fine,  the tabs are not that hard to crush.

I use a knife to stab the pill in half. Then I just use my fingers to break those halves into half. Tuxedo and Sheldon will eat it if I get the quarters wet and roll them in powdered freeze dried chicken liver (which they love, but any freeze dried treat that powders easily will work if your cats have one they like).

For Lazlo and Spooky, I have to mix it with the Slippery Elm Bark Syrup and syringe it into them. I use the Four Paws Easy Feeder (the one for food). I order those syringes on amazon - they take 15ML.