Going to have to say goodbye to my kitty girl

RuneKeeper said:

She's still sniffling and wheezing,

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Hmm...I wonder if this could be caused by over-hydration at the vet? They're not going to fess up to anything like that, but it had me wondering because vets tend to push fluids to excess.

Even when she was still drinking on her own, she was on IV fluids, so I could see that. I just never knew too much fluid could cause a sniffly cat.Something I noticed today - the spot on her neck where she was shaven and the feeding tube had been inserted feels odd and makes odd sounds. It's the side of her neck, and when I press on it (not on the stoma, but the surrounding area that is hairless), it kind of feels like I'm pressing on crinkly newspaper and makes squishy noises, like there's fluid there. I can also feel what seems to be a lump that moves around. I wonder if that's the tumor that is causing the stricture.My cat did not flinch or make any noise when I touched this spot, so I'm going to assume it doesn't hurt. The other side of her neck does not do this. I wonder if this is just some kind of swelling from the tube (the stoma still seems swollen).I'm also wondering why in the world my cat kept down all I fed her yesterday without so much as a dry heave, but today she was throwing up everything. I'm not sure what to do now in terms of feeding - the feeding tube was a flop, and now syringe feeding Hill's A/D is a flop. I got maybe 10 mL of watery food into her before it came back up. I don't want my cat to starve or have her kidneys shut down, but she will not eat or drink on her own and she will not keep down anything I give to her via syringe.

RuneKeeper said:

Even when she was still drinking on her own, she was on IV fluids, so I could see that. I just never knew too much fluid could cause a sniffly cat. Something I noticed today - the spot on her neck where she was shaven and the feeding tube had been inserted feels odd and makes odd sounds. It's the side of her neck, and when I press on it (not on the stoma, but the surrounding area that is hairless), it kind of feels like I'm pressing on crinkly newspaper and makes squishy noises, like there's fluid there. I can also feel what seems to be a lump that moves around.

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That crinkly sound is typical fluid buildup. The lump could also be fluid--I'd keep checking this to see if it gets smaller. Oh yes, too much fluid can cause sniffling, sneezing, watery eyes, discharge from their noses, coughing, and breathing problems. Too much can also lead to heart failure, so just keep an eye on her for signs of trouble breathing. I went through this with my beloved Tuffy. He had fluid coming out everywhere, his paws and legs were double the size they should be, he was sniffling, sneezing, coughing, eyes watering. It was so scary! My vet got a phone call and a huge lecture from me. Never again was he given so much fluid. His symptoms did eventually subside, but I was one panicked mom for awhile watching him like a hawk.

Food: I would go with very small amounts at a time to see if she can keep it down. It might be it's too much at one time? Are you warming the food to room temperature? That may help.

When you assist feed her, are you going in from the side of her mouth? You don't want to go from the front.

Are you up for trying the goat milk recipe I posted? Maybe something like that would stay down.

I'm sorry things aren't going well. Please do consider her quality of life in all this.

I am so sorry for what you and your kitty are going through.  I understand your hesitance to be in the rooom.  How do you feel about the vet and the assistants?  Is she more than just another patient to them?  Is she comfortable with them?  Would they comfort her?  I think as the time approaches, you will know what to do.  This is never easy.  My thoughts will be with you and Caspurr.

If planned euthanasia is the only option....it is something best done at home by a mobile vet. SHe can be in her favorite place without the stress of a vet visit as she crosses the rainbow bridge.

I called the vet today to ask about the vomiting and the fluid under her skin - didn't really get an answer regarding the fluid, but I was told if she's not even keeping water down, the tumor on her esophagus might have just grown so large (since 2 days ago??) that it is now blocking her esophagus off almost totally, if not totally. I was just advised to not continue to try and keep on force feeding her for too much longer if nothing is staying down and that probably the only thing to do is put her to sleep.Her sniffling and wheezing seems to have subsided, and I got her to purr a little today (hopefully a happy one and not a distressed one). I wonder if the fluid in her neck has anything to do with her inability to keep anything down. As in I wonder if this fluid is somehow putting pressure on an already constricted esophagus. It just strikes me as odd that she could keep everything down 48 hours ago, but nothing 24 hours ago. Same thing today - I gave her some anti-emetic pills (1/4 a tablet) ground up and mixed with about 1 mL of water. I don't even think any of it got into her system - I was using a 1 mL syringe and every little fraction of a milliliter that went in made her foam at the mouth and then she ended up regurgitating a few minutes later. Then again, for some reason, those pills always caused foaming.I did not try the goat's milk recipe only because I suspect her problem is not one of what kind of food she is receiving, but a problem with her body. I suppose it's possible that her one tumor caused this much damage in under a day - from what was in the vet's report that I received, the tumor was big enough that it didn't even allow the scope down her throat.Sadly, I don't think there's anything else that can be done. I think the next couple of days will just be spent giving my kitty lots and lots of snuggles and then I need to look at helping her cross the Rainbow Bridge. I've got my sweet little princess in my lap now, all curled up, purring. Even in sickness, she's such a sweet, pretty little lady.

Yes tumors can grow that fast.

I'm so sorry, she has put up a good fight. Don't be afraid to call your vet tomorrow, or even tonight, if you think she is suffering. or her breathing becomes affected.

I'm sorry, I know how painful it all is.

I'm thinking the foaming when giving her the crushed pill is because it is bitter, but I guess it's a moot point if she cannot even keep it down without regurgitating. 

And, sadly, cats DO purr to comfort themselves, as well as when they are happy.  I'm so sorry your girl is going thru this (you too).  I know you'll do the right thing by her, since she cannot get any nourishment anymore.  Remember, we are all here for you, and many of us have been thru the heartbreak it seems you are about to face. 

The tiniest part of me is so scared that she's just having an off couple of days and maybe I can syringe feed her again....I'm so worried I'm going to have her put down if I might still have some time with her. I knew when I heard about her tumors that she would most likely eventually be put to sleep at some point, but I would never have guessed it would be this soon. It's incredible and frightening how fast she went down hill seemingly overnight.I will still try to feed her little bits of water and watered down food maybe a couple more times, but she's never had any issues with water. Earlier I gave her some extra-diluted A/D and I got maybe 3 syringes of it down her throat (so only about 9 mL) before she started gagging and eventually vomiting. She may have drank water earlier (she was hiding out in an empty cat carrier and I left her a bowl of water) - I didn't watch her drink, but she threw up some foam not long after I left the room.I absolutely don't want her to suffer, but I feel like I'm giving up on her. I almost feel like if I have to put her to sleep, I didn't try hard enough to help her, or maybe I did something wrong, or she's just having an off day or two and I'm being impatient. It's hard to describe....almost like I feel "lazy" - because I 'only' tried to feed her and water her a few times in the last couple days and nothing stayed down, and I worry that, in some way, my mind is seeing euthanasia as a convenience only for myself. (Note, I didn't feed her constantly because I didn't want to make her throw up constantly)I'm not sure if I'm making any sense right now - it's late and my mind's kind of been all over the place about my kitty. Maybe it's because I've never had a pet put down before - all my kitties I had before died from acute illness or old age, and even if everyone in the whole world tells me I'm making the right choice, I know I will still question myself and will probably feel guilty.

Most of us question whether it's the right time or not, did we do the right thing, etc.   It's only natural.  What is SHE telling you?  My Sven turned his back on me and wouldn't even look at me until I flat out asked him if he was ready to leave me, then he turned around and looked me right in the eyes and started purring and walked right up to my face and head butted me.  We had literally had this conversation many times before (he was ill for 3 years) and always before he would start to eat or do whatever it was we were trying to get him to do, which would let me know he wasn't ready.  But I always told him from the very beginning that when he was ready to go, I would not stand in the way, but would "set him free" even though it would break my heart, which it did. 

You know your girl better than anyone.  What is she saying to you?  Is she withdrawing completely?  What do her eyes tell you?  Is there any life left in them?  She could just be having a bad couple of days, but, honestly, from what you've said, it doesn't sound like it.   I'm so sorry. 

And, naturally you wouldn't want to keep force feeding her if it just makes are vomit (IMHO).  I wouldn't just keep doing that to her either.  That's no quality of life.

I have heard some people say that when their pet refuse to make eye contact with them, then that is a great big fire sign that it's time to let them go. Either my cat is hard to read, or I just can't read her very well - when I look in her eyes, she just kind of looks at me like, "Why'd you wake me up?" or I think she's dreading me feeding her. Other times, she has a look that seems to say, "Hold me." I don't think she hates me yet - I had her in my bed last night and she crawled up and sat next to my head a couple times. I admit I do move her sometimes, not because I don't want her near me, but because I want her to be comfortable. Near my head means she will probably get elbowed in my sleep. Apparently she's willing to take that risk if it means sharing my pillow. I don't think she has the energy to withdraw, like to the point of walking away from me. But I do like that she purrs when I pet her - I have to assume that's a good thing. She still will look at me, still enjoys some things like chin and back scratches. For some reason, no matter how much light she's near, her pupils are always dilated. I'm not sure why that is.And I am starting to think the last couple days were just lousy ones. Today I gave her water and food and both stayed down. After feeding her, she did make some sour faces like she was going to vomit, but she didn't. I don't know why she kept nothing down for the last 2 days and today she did. She sure resists me a lot when I feed her, though - the moment the syringe brushes her lip, she seems to channel Stevie Wonder and starts flailing. Sometimes this can be bad because it takes me much longer to feed her (so longer periods of stress) AND sometimes some of the food misses her mouth. But heck, I'd be flailing if someone were shoving fluid down my throat too.I just worry I'm not getting nearly enough nutrition into her. I can't feed her much at a time because 1) She hates the syringe feeding and 2) I worry she'll vomit if she has too much. On top of that, I have a LOT of homework to do. I already got an extension on my deadline, but I'm concerned my kitty, my work or both will get neglected. Obviously she is my primary concern, but I also know my professors will only be so forgiving.

If she took food today, and does so again, we will for now assume that she may recover.
Something that may help you with feeding her and to make it less stressful for her, is to put her inbetween your knees for feeding time. If you have her in this position, with you sitting on your heels, she can't back away, and she can't move her legs, and it may make her feel more bundled and secure. Also it gives you both hands free for the feeding.
Also, a couple people had mentioned and I wanted to make sure you had seen it: when you use the dropper, stick it in the side of her mouth instead of the front. Then it will go down the throat much easier.


Keep us updated and if she goes another day or two without keeping any food down, it may be time.

The issue is I know I'm not getting enough of either food or water into her body, even if I feed her every couple of hours, and I worry this means she'll still waste away, only slower. I don't know how much recovery there will be for her considering she has cancer and I'm only doing supportive care for her (I don't want her to have to undergo surgery or chemo for what is most certainly advanced cancer). She doesn't get loads of food per feeding because 1) If the slurry I make is too thick, it comes back up and 2) I don't want to do this to her longer than I need to since I know she hates it. Also, I did see the thing about putting the dropper in the side of the mouth and I've been doing that. It works nicely, but sometimes she'll flail at just the right moment and I end up squirting food or water down her throat. I try hard to not let that happen, but she's very stubborn when I feed her. So far today, I got about 45 mL each of watery food and plain water into her belly. I know cats need about 20-30 calories per pound (so my kitty would need at least 240) and about 5-10 ounces of water a day (which I think is about 150-300 mL). I'm also wondering if I'm doing the right thing by force feeding her. I don't want her to starve, but she obviously hates it. I know supportive care is very much about the comfort of the patient, but I don't know how comfortable she is if I'm force feeding her.

Most emphatically NO!!! Everybody has their own may of dealing with the loss/euthanasia of a dear pet. My ex absolutely adored all our cats yet he could not face their death and always left the -end- to me. Luckily it does not phase me in the least. Current husband is just the opposite, when his beloved Schroeder had to be euthanised it would be upon his lap.

Again, everyone faces these things in their own way. Say your goodbyes and remember the purr/furball in happier times.

I, personally, don't think you need to give her additional water, since you are watering down the food so much.  Did the Vet say to give more water along with the slurry? 

Maybe she had a bad couple of days because she was swollen from the tube?  Glad to hear she is able to keep some food down now.  Will she eat anything on her own now, so you don't have to force feed her?  Have you tried that, since she seems to feel a little better.  Maybe warm it up just a little so it smells more.

continued

Since she is not moving much, if you could get 5/6ths of a can (5.5oz) in her, that would probably be enough to sustain. A whole can would be better. And yea, since you are watering it down, no excess water is needed. Hope that helps.

A couple days ago, she picked at the A/D straight from the can - she took maybe three little bites. I think she's still a little sniffly, so maybe she can't smell too well still. Or maybe she associates food with stress since I've been force-feeding her. Also, the vet didn't specifically say to water her more, but when she was there last, she was also on fluids (and before that, she was drinking on her own). But I've still been giving her a few mL of water since I'm concerned about dehydration. Even when she was drinking lots of water prior to surgery, she was still dehydrated. For a little while, I thought maybe something was wrong with her eyes since her pupils were always dilated, even in bright light. I think maybe it was just stress - after I fed and watered her today, she was soaked. When she was licking herself dry, her eyes looked normal again. I still have no idea what all the fluid is under her skin around the feeding tube site (and a bit down near her shoulder). It's only on her left side too. The vet had no idea either. Also, should it come to euthanising, I think I can find the strength to be in the room for her. I don't want her to be alone in her final moments. Out of curiosity, how much do you think I could safely feed her in one feeding? I'm just wondering if it would be less stressful to her if I fed her more per feeding, and thus had fewer feedings. Awww. As I type, my kitty came all the way downstairs by herself for the first time in days. She's been resting on my bed since she was home and wasn't interested in moving off the bed. She came all the way down here so she could hop up in her favorite spot by the window.

RuneKeeper-

I just caught this thread from another in the Nutrition forum. Now, I'm not up-to-speed with all the details (I'll now go back and sift through those)....BUT, I wanted to quickly pass along some info about other options vis-a-vis feeding tubes. So, have a read of this page...note particularly the PEG tube at the bottom of the page - here you go http://www.assistfeed.com/CatForceFeeding.htm
 

Good update! Last night I found my kitty picking kibbles off the floor from the other cats' food....so yay #1 is she still has an appetite! For the heck of it, I tried giving her some kibbles - this sensitive stomach formula I got from the vet. She didn't eat a ton of it, but she took more than a couple bites. She showed absolutely no signs of regurgitation, such as sticking out her tongue, gagging, making gurgling noises. Nothing! And as far as I know, she kept those kibbles down. Today she was asleep for a while in her favorite spot, so I didn't bother her to feed her until later in the day, but then she came upstairs all on her own and gave me that look that says, "Feed me." So I mixed up some A/D in water for her (double amount again), but I decided to see if she would be interested in eating on her own rather than me forcing it down her throat. She licked the bowl clean, kept it down (so far) and I didn't need to hold her up afterward. Again, no signs of regurgitation - she immediately began bathing herself.She's definitely looking a little more bright-eyed lately, grooming herself more, moving around more and is obviously more comfortable when sleeping and lying down. I have no idea what's happening, but I just hope it continues to happen.