Follow-up to older thread re hyperthyroidism

[lucyrima]

Hi, it's been a while but I didn't come back cuz too much was happening and it was confusing. Ecco definitely showed every sign of hyperthyroidism but a low T4, but I'd put that down to his being on the herbal Thyroid Support Gold prior to testing in Jan. Anyhow I continued with it, plus cut out any fishy food (hard to do with commercial stuff and still leave any choices), plus clearing huge amts of litter, being woken at 6 am (vs 7) to feed him, plus whining through day for food, seeing big fat claws, etc. etc. But there is a little news and I'd like some feedback. Vet suggested trying Royal Canin, but on researching, I wasn't impressed with it so didn't begin. However I was also going nuts not getting enough sleep, and all of above stuff, so decided to try Hill's Y/D just a few days ago. I wasn't aware you're supposed to use it 'only', with no other food, so have continued with mostly Friskies breakfast - but no more iodine laced egg yolk (only little amts, but for all I know it started the thyroid thing) - Y/D lunch (plus little other treat) and a similar supper, with e.g. bits of ham or plain hamburger treats, etc. Well, it's only been a couple of days but there has been a change in his progression - first time in months! However now I'm worried about flipping him hyPOthyroid because of the Y/D even tho' it's not 100% of his diet... so I'm not sure what to do now! Anyone else have experience with this kind of crossroads thing? Can he flip overnight with no warning even after a short time on e.g. a 60%(?) diet of Y/D or ??? Thanks to all who've read so far!

 

[Furballsmom]

However now I'm worried about flipping him hyPOthyroid because of the Y/D

So, you're saying his behavior has calmed down? Since you're providing him with foods other than the Y/D, although I'm not a vet but he likely won't become hy-Po. Although you might cut out the ham - it has a lot of sodium.

Your vet has prescribed the Y/D, I assume since it's not available otherwise, so you might want to wait until you have another set of blood tests done, and then you can decide whether to continue as is, or cut back even further on foods other than the Y/D.

 

[lucyrima]

Thanks! Vet didn't prescribe the Y/D, I did and while he's still hyPER, I have seen a slight change in the couple of days since.... not huge, just a bit better, but I'm afraid to go too far not knowing if hyPO would be worse (or not reversible) than the hyPER is... which is why I wondered if others had gone through this. I'm being careful, but thinking ahead... both are apparently progressive, though I'm guessing hyPO is easier to manage, but also don't want my situation to impact his if you know what I mean. Part of my problem is financial - in a big way, so more labs, etc. have to be few and far between at best. I think I might be asking here if it's better to be hypo or hyper for any reason... googoo doesn't know everything(!) but I'm hoping people here do.

 

[Furballsmom]

I'm curious, how are you obtaining the Y/D? Are you talking with your vet about this, I would hope?

You can't know for certain what's happening with him (I'm in this same boat of having a hyperthyroid cat, with other health issues and I'm using the Y/D) beyond an attitude adjustment and weight gain, without blood tests.

 

[FeebysOwner]

There is no 'better' between hypo and hyper. If there is a reason to think he is/was hyper - that is because of an over production of hormones in the thyroid gland and that, short of radio-active iodine treatment, cannot be cured - only treated with meds or the food designated for it.

The only way a cat can go from hyper to hypo is to over treat the hyper condition, which from what you are telling us, I don't see that as the possibility. Hypo, unto itself, is brought on by other conditions and has its own set of issues but is treated differently than if it were to be caused by over treating for hyper.

This isn't really a matter of a balancing act. He either has hyper or he has hypo - if he has the former, he will not get the latter unless he is being over treated. If he has the latter, that is a whole set of different issues involved.

 

[lucyrima]

I went to a vet's (not mine - who only carry R. Canin) and got two cans ($4/ea) of the Y/D. Just wonder if I'll know that he's flipping before it happens... is there a time between one and the other that e.g. no symptoms are obvious, or ? My own vet is so fixated on his 'normal' (but lowish vs high) T4 from Jan. and won't credit the herbal 'Gold' he had for a couple of wks prior to the test as having had any bearing at the time, tho' wasn't on it a long time then. Just wanted to know (now) if there's a time (?) between hyper and hypo that I'll recognize and e.g. lower the Y/D and/or be careful about his not returning to full blown hyper symptoms. That's my 'question' of the moment.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Maybe reading up on both conditions might help? It really is not 'interchangeable' in the manner you are thinking. And all cats can have different symptoms relative to both conditions.
Hyperthyroidism in Cats (cathealth.com)
Hyperthyroidism In Cats (Overactive Thyroid): Symptoms & Treatments (webmd.com)
Hypothyroidism in Cats: Symptoms, Causes, Treatment, and FAQs | PetMD
Hypothyroidism in Cats: Signs & Symptoms | Canna-Pet®

 

[Furballsmom]

Just wonder if I'll know that he's flipping before it happens... is there a time between one and the other that e.g. no symptoms are obvious, or ?

FeebysOwner commented that you would have to be overtreating his hyper-T condition. You aren't doing that, even if you were feeding Y/D only. The Y/D kibble has a little iodine in it so if your vet prescribes it, you could add that to your feeding regiment.

Why don't you switch over to the second vet you visited where you got the two cans of Y/D? However, I'm extremely concerned that they are selling it without your cat having been seen by one of their vets, so I doubt this is a viable move.

clearing huge amts of litter

Is the vet, whichever one, aware of the fact that his kidneys need to be monitored? Like, right now?? Stop giving him any ham, there's too much sodium and his kidneys can't handle the load.

 

[Furballsmom]

Sorry for the double post, but there might be something here that helps;
No Money For Vet Care? How To Find Help And Save Your Cat’s Life – TheCatSite Articles

 

[lucyrima]

Thanks for the ham warning... will be v. careful. Did not see a 2nd vet, just picked up the Y/D there because I wanted to try it, plus they're far away for reg. visits. And Thx for the link - will read it afterward... Kibble not doable - half his teeth out, other half not good. And F's Owner - will read links too. I know things are not blk and white with living things, but just wanted some commentary as I'm a bit full of the whole mess now and needed objective ideas. Will keep posting, if not right away.

 

[Furballsmom]

You could moisten kibble with made-for-cat broth (no sodium) or goat milk such as one from the Honest Kitchen that comes in little packets and has a probiotic in it - he might be able to handle that.

Hopefully you and his vet are monitoring his kidneys very closely since getting the thyroid controlled usually unmasks kidney issues, which according to your comment in your first post sounds as though that's what is happening. His teeth also need to be taken care of because dental issues end up putting a lot of stress on the heart.

I don't mean to be dumping all this on you. I'm just pointing out that you have more, bigger concerns than him going hypo-T.

One good thing about the Y/D is that it fits reasonably well within nutritional guidelines for Chronic Kidney Disease kitties.

Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - Diet and Nutrition Overview

 

[lucyrima]

Thanks all - have had Tanya's site bookmarked for years... what a find!
And FB's Mom - thx... I'm in Canada, so there aren't as many org.s that fund vet stuff here and insurance is very expensive (plus at this point, he is 15), so will just manage what I can when necessary.

PS - is anyone else watching the game ?

 

[Furballsmom]

what a find!

It really is!

 

[lucyrima]

Hi again, thought I'd update and have a question.... I know hyperthyroidism is supposedly progressive, but if e.g. all known iodine products are out of his diet, if he gets enough food (I'm going broke to keep wt steady - poss. even gaining a bit and almost all symptoms not obvious 'cept for whining (claws seem to have levelled off, less huge, has anyone ever seen a permanent reversal of the condition provided things stay stable with diet, etc? Wishful thinking?
Also - is there a particular type of noniodized salt that cats can have so they don't go bonkers wanting e.g. bacon, egg yolk, anything salty, etc? Thx!

 

[FeebysOwner]

Hi. I guess I am not entirely sure what you are asking. There is nothing short of radio-iodine treatment that will stop/reverse hyperthyroidism. It is a tumor growth within the thyroid gland that can be slowed down through proper treatment - foods or meds. But it can't be stopped entirely. The speed with which the tumor grows is dependent on depriving its 'food source', aka iodine, but also varies by cat/genetics. Besides, you cannot entirely deplete iodine, as it is necessary to a cat's system with or without a thyroid tumor.

Constant monitoring of the T-4 level (at least semi-annually) to see how it is, based on a Y/D diet or on thyroid meds is about all that you can do. I chose the med route, because the Y/D food was not acceptable to Feeby. And, so far, she has had to have fairly small increases in H-T meds since she was diagnosed 2 years ago. Because she is on meds, I don't restrict her ability to have some 'treats' here and there, regardless of their iodine content.

 

[Furballsmom]

has anyone ever seen a permanent reversal of the condition provided things stay stable with diet, etc?

This is from a recent article in the Journal of Feline Medicine that LTS3 posted;
there are no studies looking at the long-term effects of iodine restriction in cats

And, due to the fact that every cat is different, I personally wouldn't count anything out. Borrowing from the "hope for the best" phrase, I'd say aim for stable or better than, and prepare for unstable (just in case).

From Medical News Today in an article about the Difference between Table Salt and Sea Salt;

Of the two, only table salt contains iodine, as unprocessed sea salt does not contain iodine.
As this article stated earlier, although sea salt does not have iodine, it naturally contains magnesium, calcium, potassium, and other nutrients.

 

[lucyrima]

This is from a recent article in the Journal of Feline Medicine that LTS3 posted;
there are no studies looking at the long-term effects of iodine restriction in cats

And, due to the fact that every cat is different, I personally wouldn't count anything out. Borrowing from the "hope for the best" phrase, I'd say aim for stable or better than, and prepare for unstable (just in case).

From Medical News Today in an article about the Difference between Table Salt and Sea Salt;

Of the two, only table salt contains iodine, as unprocessed sea salt does not contain iodine.
As this article stated earlier, although sea salt does not have iodine, it naturally contains magnesium, calcium, potassium, and other nutrients.

 

[lucyrima]

There are many noniodized types of salt tho', so I thought someone might know which was good (and not), but never mind now... have to go back to previous response. Thanks tho'!

 

[lucyrima]

To Feeby's Owner - thanks a lot - interesting news... will just proceed and see how it goes - like I said, when things seem good for 1-2 days 'wishful thinking' takes over. Thing is, the vet couldn't palpate a tumor or anything else, but I also think she might have been a tad po'd at me for not immediately jumping on her request to buy Royal Canin there (I got the Hill's Y/D someplace else). And BTW, maybe it's a U.S. law that I can't get e.g. the Y/D (or anything else) from a vet's place without having seen that vet first, but while it might not be a law in Canada, there was no vet 'home' at the time anyhow - I just paid the ? tech, ? sect'y, for the cans and left.

Oh well, will see how things go - do feel a bit better now realizing they can 'go' for actual yrs, not just months as I'd assumed. Wish I had the loot for nuclear, but don't. Thanks again!

 

[Furballsmom]

This is from Goodrx - which is to say, sodium chloride is what you're looking for without any other ingredients.
What is Noniodized salt?

Non-iodized salt is often purely sodium chloride (think sea salt). This salt comes straight from the sea or underground salt deposits. Depending on the manufacturer, some non-iodized salts may be processed to create a finer texture, and may be mixed with other ingredients.