Sassy - 19yr Old Domestic Short Hair - Appetite Update + Skin Abscess Recurrence?

miguel99nyc

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Hello everyone,

I had about 3 pages of responses back to Sassy's appetite recently dating back to December of 2020 around the last time I had posted.

As of July 2021, in short, she has maintained this schedule of eating nearly every 3-4 hours. Not sure if it was determined because of her age or if it was a signal for me to take her to the vet - I opted not for visit vet in the months after because she wasn't looking sick and just seemed scattered on and off days. Over time, from January of this year and about until March, I figured this is just her new self, of eating more frequently but smaller quantities throughout the day, still totaling her approximate calorie intake as it was prior where she was just eating 2-3 times a day at most. Now its about 6-7 times a day, including and painfully overnight where she'd wake me up each time around 2am, 5am and then 8am approximately to eat...It's been tough but hanging in there. This is my first elderly cat so still not 100% sure if this is the norm for an older cat but I've accepted it since my last thread post about this issue since I didn't see any other health issue arise other than smaller meals more frequent eating. Now a days, she still may have an off day or two consecutive like maybe once a month, but overall she seems fine. Even with the loss of my other cat last November, she has surely taken command as being the lone cat - she greets us at door coming back from work, especially me. She follows me everywhere even sits next to me at dinner time and sleeps on my dinner table chair too! She has been definitely much more vocal then back in past with other cats being around. She used to be so quite, but now she cries for attention and such, its like a reinvigorated cat. The transformation/change of her since Charlie's passing is shocking, a complete 180 difference from being such a quite and sleepy cat to walking around freely, sleeping where she wants and such.

Now I had also posted maybe about 2 years ago or so about some skin inflammation issue she had. We took her to the vet and was deemed as skin abscess I believe. All I recall was vet examined her, drained the pus out and just gave us some cream to put into that hole that was left. She had a cone on as well for few weeks which was quite stressful. Over time it healed rather slowly...to the point where I stopped checking after maybe a month or so because her hair had grown further around the area and no hole was left to be seen. Vet had mentioned it probably took a while to heal because of her age and that the skin would heal from inside out. So that part made sense as the hole slowly filled out. Attached pictures with 2019 name are the pics of her healing back then.

Now yesterday I was brushing her, and felt a lump in that area. Upon closer look, I noticed it was that hole area again but this large yellowish/black lump shiny was seen sticking out from hole but it was like 99% detached? It looks rather disgusting and it did come out as I used a qtip to remove it. Then I saw her fresh skin under that ball and where her abscess was once before and now looks like a crater. Not a deep hole...but a crater and I guess the new skin that regenerated back then filled in? I never paid attention in the past year or so and she never really licked it or scratched it. Back in 2019 it was more noticeable because it was red, much large swelling and alot more hair was missing and pus was coming out. this time I tried squeezing out with qtips that crater gently but nothing comes out. So now I'm not sure what that yellow ball was or how it formed but it was definitely connected to that crater of her previous abscess and was just about to comes out probably from the brushing.

Any thoughts? Do such abscess recur? I'd take her to vet but I didnt notice any swelling, just her skin seemed like kinda torn around that crater and was probably forming to that yellow mass that was coming out already. The 2021 pictures are from today and the 2019 is from when the first issue arose with swelling and pus.

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fionasmom

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I would take Sassy to the vet on both accounts; the frequent desire for food which is now occurring during the night, and also for a recheck and update on the abscess.

You could leave food out overnight for her to nibble on, but I would still have concerns about her desire for very frequent meals. The fact that her weight is normal may or may not be a good sign. I am not trying to scare you, but I would rather have the vet rule out conditions like diabetes or hyperthyroidism, especially as she ages.
 

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Hi. I would at a minimum send pics to the vet for assessment. I am not a vet, but wondering if there is a tumor behind this issue - despite the lengthy timeline between recurrences.

The eating in small amounts, but frequently, reminds of what I am wondering is going on with Feeby (~17yo), as it has just been identified that she apparently had fluid in her chest cavity - diagnosis as yet TBD. She wants to eat, but very small amounts at a time, which leads me to think that she has a limited amount of space to enable her to eat much in one sitting. Still trying to figure out if this is or is not tied to her hyperthyroidism. Sorry if some of Sassy's issues were explained in your previous thread - I know how hard it is to communicate what you want with so many things going on.

Edit: Much of the other things you describe about Sassy also fit Feeby -the vocalizations for example, as well as the following me around.
 
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miguel99nyc

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Hi. I would at a minimum send pics to the vet for assessment. I am not a vet, but wondering if there is a tumor behind this issue - despite the lengthy timeline between recurrences.

The eating in small amounts, but frequently, reminds of what I am wondering is going on with Feeby (~17yo), as it has just been identified that she apparently had fluid in her chest cavity - diagnosis as yet TBD. She wants to eat, but very small amounts at a time, which leads me to think that she has a limited amount of space to enable her to eat much in one sitting. Still trying to figure out if this is or is not tied to her hyperthyroidism. Sorry if some of Sassy's issues were explained in your previous thread - I know how hard it is to communicate what you want with so many things going on.
Hello there.

Yes I plan on sending pics over tomorrow for some kind of assesement. I mean I can't recall if they did xrays on her back with this skin issue 2 years ago...but I do certainly remember her having that whole area red and quite swollen initially. After vet drained it all out squeezing it out the pus, a large hole was visible, like a tunnel in her flesh. Rather nasty, kind of reminded me of my brother skin issue he had himself - like a large boil which after draining the pus a hole was left over until it healed.The vet deemed it as skin abscess back then.

Problem is as time went by since 2 years ago, while it was filling out her skin hole slowly but surely, I think I stopped at one time because we had stopped the cream as the vet deemed it was healed enough that cream was not needed. Cone was off, her hair began to regrow and I guess it never leaked after. I felt like I had checked maybe a month or two ago when I brushed her and noticed her abscess, no pus or anything but the crater was visible but with flesh filled in. I had thought the skin would just completely re-seal and be like clean, but seems like till now that crater remained with just that hole in flesh filled in. I thought maybe I over brushed her in that area at times though I always did my best to avoid that area in recent past, maybe i scratched it accidentally and got infected? She does have quite a bit of clunked up hair - matted hair. She developed this like maybe several months ago I noticed. So over time I use this specific brush and it takes it off after several brushings. I read matting of hair can be a health issue too - but as it was several months ago, I couldn't get into vet to be with her because of Covid. However now I think they are letting owners in finally so Im definitely considering a visit.

Yeah she isn't eating really like large or larger amounts then say when she started doing this back in December 2020, she just kind of splitted up her normal amount to lesser amounts but more meals. Each time she seems fine and looks like she wants to eat and eats well each sitting which is why since December 2020, I've adjusted myself to feeding her as she would request. I had thought, because she became the lone cat after November 2020, she felt more relaxed and noticed we paid more attention to her now so her behavior changed in a way to sort of train us to feed her when she wanted. It didn't start like like Suddenly - one day she just had her normal 2 meals in a day, then the next 5-6 meals. It progressed slowly from December through about February and perhaps she got used to me feeding her treats/cookies overnight that she got like, trained that way? And without the prescence of any other cats like it was in her life the past 16 years, she just now feels like she's free in some way. I did read up back around January/February about possiblity being diabetes or Hyperthyroidism but her last values back in 2019 were completely normal. Not sure if that's something that acts up within a year or so. Her eating habits changed primarily after my last other cat had passed so I thought that was maybe the issue that changed her.

Because she'd been eating her near normal amounts if not slightly higher (though always consistent every day) which I thought was fine. She had some vomiting lately of just clear liquid after drinking water, maybe like 2-3 times in the past month but never her food or anything. At same time, another reason why I thought she changed/adapted to this smaller meals because she seems to eat roughly at the same times every day as she has been for the past....6-7 months. It would be as follows:

2-4am approx: - I give her like two spoons fulls approx of dry food only. She eats and finishes it usually.
5-6am approx: - She eats about 1-2oz of her 3oz Fancy Feast Gravy canned food with a few bits of dry food. She loves combining it both.
8-9am approx: Remaining leftover of her 3oz can though rarely finishes it leaves about a spoonful of wet food or even just bests 1.5oz of the 3 oz total. Prior to December 2020 with other cat around, she would just eat once at around 7am that 3oz can - nearly all of it one shot. But she then split it into two.
Then sleeps for a while....4-5 hours approx.
1pm-2pm: I'd give her 1/3 of her 5.5oz Friskies can with some dry food.
4-6pm: Id give her 1/3 of leftover Friskies can with some dry food.
9-10pm: Id give her remaining 1/3 of Friskies can - never finishes entire can 5.5oz but she never did even prior. She would eat basically one dinner meal previously , half of 5.5oz can at our own dinner time with some cookies but that's it.

The thing is, as she became the lone cat, and i wanted her to eat since some days back around November/December 2020 she would have a finnicky appetite, she would come crying to me kindly and just sits around my chair - I was like " oh you want food Sassy?" id give her cookies and she'd eat it. Then Id start giving her early dinner I remember instead at 8pm dinner, I began feeding her at 5pm dinner when Id get home from work(december 2020), she'd enjoy her food - eat it, little less then normal amount then go sleep. Then she'd wake up around 9 or 10pm, cry again looking wanting to eat, so id give her leftover food and she'd eat again little. Then I think slept all the way through the night. Then towards end of December, in middle of snowstorm, I had waken up early to dig out my car at 5am, she had woken up too and seemed like she wanted to eat, so thats when I gave her bit of her 3oz canned food. December 17th 2020 I rememebr exact haha. She ate. I cleaned out car, dug it out, took family members to work and got back home. Then later that morning she asked for food again, I was like great! Gave her bit more of her 3oz can and I think she finished it around 9am or so. Then I think from there, I think she got used to, or trained me that everytime she came to me at my desk to cry for food, she'd thought shed get food and she did. So over time it became bit more frequent where it was every 3-4hours approximately until it remained that way since like January until today. So I believed it was just behavior issue as that is all I saw from her in recent months where she adjusted to smaller meals, and only noticed the matting of her hair in recent month or so.

Fast Forward now though to say since beginning of July this month, eating schedule had to change unfortunately becausae my brother would be one feeding her small amount of dry food during day/lunch time when Id be at work. But now he gotcalled into work again full time, so Sassy is practically alone from 8am-4pm. I was nervous a bit because she had gotten used to eating every 3-4hours. But remarkably she readjusted as well so then her last meal would be around 7-8am of 3oz canned food and now she sleeps for a good 4-6 hours, at least until around maybe 12 or 1pm. After I guess she drinks some water and walks around...but by time i get home from work or whomever gets home from work first around 4pm, shes there at door greeting us kindly, petting us and walks to our room. She sits and waits for food so now I begin giving her 5.5oz can as of aroudn 4pm for her first dinne rmeal. THen around 7pm and then 10-11pm. It doesnt seem like shes desparate for food either, she either way sits patiently and waits for me to feed her by my desk in my room or in brother room. So she readapted going on for hours longer without food again like it was years passed before Covid, when she was alone with Charlie with no food and waited - though in past she would sleep like..for 8-10 hours! Now she wakes up more frequently and got used to asking for food each time she wakes up so I feel like she trained me to ask for food.

I want to take her to vet, but then I fear she will change again and lose that appetite she has going. I know she needs at least blood work done to check on her CKD and overall health but, I just hesitate, its not easy sadly.
 

fionasmom

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I see what you mean about a possible feeding schedule change, plus the loss of your other cat, may have changed her eating pattern without an underlying cause....which would be great of course. I would still monitor this though, along with the abscess, and err on the side of caution if you need a vet visit. She is probably fine all day alone and does exactly what you think which is to eat a little and sleep.
 

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I did read up back around January/February about possiblity being diabetes or Hyperthyroidism but her last values back in 2019 were completely normal. Not sure if that's something that acts up within a year or so. Her eating habits changed primarily after my last other cat had passed so I thought that was maybe the issue that changed her.
Values can change in that timeline for sure. Feeby's blood test results were pretty much within reason in 2019. Then, because of COVID she wasn't tested again until a year later, and that is when the hyperthyroidism reared its ugly head. Since, then some CKD issues are showing up.

Sassy's eating patterns aren't all that different from Feeby's, and I do think some of that just has to do with aging.

Have you ever considered an in home vet/tech for a blood draw? The test results could be reviewed before any decision would have to be made on an actual vet visit. Ask your vet if there is a way to do this.
 
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miguel99nyc

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Hello Everyone. Hope all has been well.

I know previous replies have suggested I take Sassy to the vet to rule out certain issues and I planned on it for her overall health as she hasn't gone for bloodwork at least since mid 2019. The time has come now in which I plan on taking her possibly if not this weekend, the following. Nothing has really changed with Sassy in the past several months, her appetite has remained with smaller meals every few hours or so including overnight. The one thing that kind of alarmed me is her weight. Maybe I haven't paid much attention to her overall appearance and such like...in full detail but now that she curls up to me or lays next to me to sleep (even cries at me to lay with her in bed haha), when I rubbed her back I began to feel a bit her spine. Part of me says its been like that before but other part says she might have lost some weight? I notice more so seeing her hip bones. When looking from above she looks rather thin in the area but not so much on her legs. She still got a belly and such but maybe I loooked into it too much that my mind is now set on that she possibly has lost weight, despite her eating being still normal as it has been since Decmber 2020. Only way to know obviously is to take her vet to get weighed and examined which is another reason why Im taking her. She's long over due for it. Maybe she lost bit of weight or muscle mass beacuse of her kidney disease or aging?

The questions I had primarily were about bloodwork. As I'm sure the vet will do blood work - I could request the senior one which I think they did few years ago, but I wanted to know what else in the blood should they look for? I saw a video on youtube few days ago about checking Folate or some kind of other blood test to check for IBD or lymphoma of some kind? Also I know there are or is a specific test to test function of kidneys? I'd like to know and get suggestions on what exactly to request in the bloodwork other than the typical that can probably explain weight loss? Aside from Xrays, I want to avoid Ultrasound because I know her old aged body wouldn't be able to take it, and i can't trust it for now.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 

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Hi. I wrote a rather long response to your post, but it must have been lost with this site going down. I will try to re-gather my thoughts and respond later. Disappointed that my post was apparently lost...
 
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miguel99nyc

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Oh I didn't even notice!

Noooo don't worry no need to! Not sure if you know but the message you sent also gets sent like as a copy/notification through email! So I have what you replied with earlier from what tests in blood to make like for hyperthyoridism, not really doing the Kidney function test as the regular kidney number in the basic bloodwork is suffice and basically about Sassy's age being possible factor for her losing weight/muscle mass.

Yup I have it all still in my email :) I really appreciate your thoughts on this. Like, I want to lean it's Sassy's age...only because the only symptom I guess I noticed recently was the weight loss/muscle mass loss. She still been eating her frequent smaller meals and her stool passing has been normal too. Sometimes she'd go a day without passing stool but she would then do it the following day. But thats like maybe once a week at most.

One thing I didn't mention in recent posts was about this random weakness she had in her hind legs. Or maybe not weakness but she would like lose her balance? She's had that now for...several months. And its usually only when she would turn or a spin, not when walking straight or jumping. I had thought aside from that also being a lone symptom I thought was just from age so i limited her from jumping to the chair and assisted her getting to my bed by putting storage boxes as steps instead of jumping directly from floor.So I'll bring this up to vet as well.

I know I posted about the skin abscess that keeps forming on her skin since over a year ago. It just seems like a yellow ball of grease that forms over span of weeks over her skin, comes off but underneath just leaves a crater on her skin but no puss or nothing discharges. So that too I will get it checked.
 

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I forgot about the emails relative to posts - they go in my spam folder and I just delete them. Didn't think about checking those after the site went down!!

Hind leg weakness can be a symptom of kidney disease, so that is another thing to talk to the vet about. Feeby doesn't demonstrate leg weakness, but she does have interim steps all over the house to allow her to get on the bed, and various other locations that would typically require jumping. She uses them religiously!

I have absolutely no idea about the skin issue, but it really doesn't sound like an actual abscess. I also know of no connection with kidney disease, but since you are taking her to the vet - just one more thing to add to your list of items to discuss.
 
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miguel99nyc

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Hello,

So I have taken Sassy to the vet this past Saturday. Based off what I described my concerns, aside from normal physical touching of Sassy to feel her organs check her mouth, ears, eyes, etc, and no fever, vet just took blood test only. His explanation/thoughts were as follows: (ill try to be brief but as detailed as possible)

As for weight loss:
It is still TBD. Initially he had thought it mostly muscle mass loss as she seems rather thin around her hip bone area. She got weighed and weighed in at 10.2lbs. Vet was slightly concerned as she normally was an 11.5-12.4lb cat even up to 2019 where she was last 11.8lbs. But whether this weight loss happened suddenly or gradually since July 2019 is hard to know...because I just start only paying attention in recent weeks and feeling her spine a bit as I brushed her despite her eating habits/timing changing since around December 2020 to be less in one sitting but more smaller meals throughout day. It's one of those things that I didnt pay much attention before but now in recent weeks I have and only then when i started then think - "oh i think she lost some weight". So i explained that to the vet and he did notice it too as to Sassy being rather thinner near her hip area. Vet of course asked if she was throwing up or having diarrhea but I told him no, none of that. He briefly mentioned of course aside from doing the blood test, the weight loss could be from kidney disease progressing, to aging as she is now 19 years old, he felt that what Sassy might have undergone is mostly muscle loss near her hip area. He also suggested to do the T4 check if for hyperthyroidism. Overall he said to wait for blood test results to see what we get.

Weakness hind legs:
This was something I didn't bring up I think before...but I did ask vet about this too. She walks for most part normally but I do notice in recent months she hesitates to do bigger jumps or just avoids it all together. But also sometimes when she would lift her head and turn around or do a Uturn sort of, it would be like she limps/or loses slightly balance only in the hind legs but then resumes normal walking. The vet mentioned while her front paws felt strong upon physical check, he believed Sassy might be having Arthritis causing her to have weakness in the back legs. He didn't really confirm it...but offered to try supplements see if it helped her - that it's really only to help her joints and such. But no Xrays were done as it didn't seem a concern to him considering Sassy's age.

Skin lump/abscess:
So the vet checked that as well. I forget the name but he basically said its some kind of skin tumor but benign coming from the oils of her hair/skin or something like that. Something to keep an eye on if puss ever builds up or swells, over grooms etc. As of now and has been for months, that dried lump yellow greasy looking forms on its own and over time it comes out on its own. Or I would take it off since it like coming off on the verge. Sassy doesn't even lick that area. Once the yellow lump comes off, she just has the same crater she once had few years ago when she had that pus filled abscess. Though this time, its just her flesh - crater no puss nothing comes out. Vet just said to keep an eye on it and see if anything develops further or worsens.

Blood Work Results/Interpretation:

Attached are the blood results I just got today. As I somewhat feared, although the vet did mention doing a "Senior" Blood Work check, when I compared it to blood test in 2019, seems far less things were tested for... (2019 also attached). I did contact the vet short while ago and he confirmed two things: Back in 2019 seemed like the other vet did a superchem/cbc instead regular, so he actually now gave me that option he can send off the blood for that including for Pancreatitis (which he didnt send for some reason initially). As for the folate/B12, he had mention that would require fasting of 12 hours prior, but more importantly, he said its for malabsorption in the intestines which usually in a cat he said would be if they are experiencing chronic diarrhea which Sassy doesn't have. So he said it's not needed at this time. I guess I can take his word for it? As for her T4 check that too is normal range apparently.

But as for her other values, vet overall said he is very surprised on how overall healthy Sassy is based off blood only. Her kidney values did NOT get worse since 2019, except her BUN which went up just by few points minimally he said which is great. I myself when I saw these results, was surprised too. Creatine just hovered at 2.0...since the 2.1 in 2019, but I did read on Tanya site that Creatine can drop if cat has muscle loss which maybe Sassy underwent? So unsure about that. And keep in mind, I'm doing all this with just feeding Sassy her favorite Friskies/Fancy Feast food. Sure I introduced her to flavors with the lowest phosphorus levels I could find...so I guess that is helping/working as to slowing down the CKD? Who knows. But that just leaves door wide open as to what would attribute to Sassy's weight loss.

Vet mentioned Ultrasound is the next step since blood is all normal...Ultrasound to check her intestines, stomach, organs, etc. for possible cancers/tumors though he said he didn't feel any lumps/masses upon physical check... But if I don't do Ultrasound, he suggest just continue to watch her weight and see if she develops further symptoms like vomiting or diarrhea, lack of appetite, or even further weight loss. Try giving her more food and such but I already give her the most she wants honestly. Ultrasound I told him I fear for her because I know she has to fast for it, and she wakes me up for food either throw crying or scratching my bed in nights at 2am, 5am then at 8am. I can't imagine myself ignoring her for 8 hours or so before bringing her in :( Just too hard on me I told him. Hence why he said to continue to monitor her for now.

-----
So overall I'm left with no real diagnosis of what could be causing or have caused Sassy to lose weight. I would say she's somewhat stable now? I could monitor even closely her weight/eating habits to see if it lessens or changes...but her eating habits has been the same for so many months now. Also I know she's cut down a good amount on dry food over the past several months or so, maybe that contributed to some weight loss? She used to eat a lot of dry food before but now not as much. Plus some have said it's her age, I mean she is 19 years old, should she not be eating somewhat less like human elderly do and lose weight instead remaining at 12lbs? It's hard to understand and figure out...but at least there's some comfort knowing her blood is still good. Just then raises that possibility more if she has some type of lymphoma or cancer/tumor inside :(. The one thing that distinguishes her from my last cat that died last year of his colorectal adenocarcinoma, and maybe it was because it was a very aggressive form that not only developed so quickly, it caused much more severe symptoms (vomiting, difficult to pass stool, blood in stool, barely eating and wanting to hide under table) Sassy is complete opposite. Sure she lost some weight (over how long hard to know), but she still acts like herself. Cries for food, she goes out scratch her posts, walks around explores things like she always does. Nothing shows like shes ill at all. I just hope it isn't a sign of anything bad as such as cancer/tumors.

I tried to keep this short. Hard. But if anyone has thoughts it would be greatly appreciated. Thank You all.
 

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Thanks for the update! Sassy's blood work numbers do look good! The BUN may have been elevated due to the stress of the vet visit - that is very common. Your vet is using the blood sample that he already took from Sassy to have the remaining chem elements as well as pancreatitis tested? I wasn't sure. If so, that would be helpful, as something could show up in these other elements. Cat can have mild cases of pancreatitis which can affect appetite without a whole lot of other symptoms. The good news is that generally speaking, keeping a cat eating is the first line of defense for pancreatitis. Some need re-hydrated, but since your vet didn't mention Sassy appearing to be dehydrated, that wouldn't seem to be the situation for her.

Less dry food and more wet could attribute to her weight loss as the wet food is much less in terms of carbohydrates. Given the vet's assessment, it would seem a lot of Sassy's muscle mass loss is likely due to her age.

I am not sure I am completely convinced from all that I have read that a B12 absorption issue has to be accompanied by diarrhea, but your vet surely has seen more cases of this than I have read about. However, it wouldn't seem likely to me that she has cancer either.
I think your vet is on target to tell you to continue to monitor her for changes.

You might consider getting a scale so you can keep better track of her weight. I weigh Feeby weekly. And, if you haven't done so already, check out some of the nutritional pastes to see if you can get a few more calories in her that way. Also, follow up on the arthritis supplements in case she is experiencing some issues related to that - at 19 I highly suspect she does have some arthritis. Cosequin or Dasuquin appear to be the most widely used supplements.

Overall, I would stop worrying and do just what the vet said - continue to monitor her. Sassy looks to be one lucky gal to be doing so well for her age!
 
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miguel99nyc

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Hello,

Yes, its a good thing I had asked about getting that more detailed blood test using Sassy's existing blood. Unfortunately, did not come back so good... See attached :(

So the few things that the vet called me about short while ago about this newer test results was the higher numbers in Calcium and the Precision PSL. The slightly elevated PSL he said it's not definitive that Sassy has pancreatitis, especially if she isn't showing clinical signs. So he said Sassy may not have pancreatitis. The other thing he was concerned about was the High Calcium and High Sodium. He had questioned what food I was giving her in which I told him about the regular commercial Friskies/Fancy Feast but he didn't really say that was the culprit for those higher numbers nor suggested to do any other tests. What he did focus on was the High Calcium which he mentioned could be idiopathic meaning no reason (which would be sort of good), and the other being possible some form of cancer inside her (which would probably explain her weight loss such as lymphoma he said. He recommends doing still the Ultrasound...but I just can't fathom or even think how I can even approach with Sassy NOT eating from midnight until around 9am when I would drop her off. Just the idea of her coming to me always asking for food every few hours and me just ignoring her...especially overnight would be just so hard :( I wish she didn't become that way....otherwise I would have jumped on the Ultrasound right away honestly.

As for her Calcium being at 12.5, yeah it was at an 11 back in 2019 so it did go up slightly...but I definitely recall the other vet (same clinic) mentioning it to me but not really worried or suggesting any treatment to lower those numbers or further testing. Actually at that time in 2019, she got tested and all because she was eating far less at that time, far less than she does nowadays so that was concerning to me back then. So at that time in 2019, the other vet couldn't really find an answer to Sassy's finicky appetite back then and also suggested to do an ultrasound to see if something was in the stomach or intestines. Shortly after Sassy started eating again normally hence why I never really brought her back in for a while (Then covid hit).

Now I did some brief search online...her high calcium, sodium, chloride doesn't seem to promising...and it hurts me because it just seems only next step is that Ultrasound in which if I read this stuff online correct, it may lead to not something too good of news potentially. I just dont see these abnormal numbers be ... say of no cause or even of no concern. Yet, the vet upon speaking to him didn't sound too concerned or something that should get rushed whether be further test or treatment. So that is why now I'm confused more than anything...

Any helpful info would be greatly appreciated. And even how I could potentially approach not feeding Sassy for over 8-10 hours if I go the Ultrasound route.

Thank You
 

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Right off the bat, I wouldn't freak out too much. Feeby's amylase and PSL have off and on been much higher than Sassy's. Without the fPLI test (specifically looking for pancreatitis) the numbers have not been taken too seriously by the vets Feeby has seen. And, none of them yet have suggested doing this test. Besides, the best treatment for pancreatitis is to keep them eating and hydrated, especially if it is deemed to be a chronic condition.

Feeby has been at the top of the range for calcium (or higher) a couple of times, and I have had no one tell me to be worried about it. She is also consistently at the top of the range for sodium - also not something anyone told me to be concerned about. Magnesium nor chloride have been too drastic for Feeby, but not sure how to translate those either with or without combining them with the other elements' results.

The key I have found, which will be much to your dismay, is having routine blood work done (like every 6 months) in order to see patterns that can suggest something. Feeby has had routine blood work since early 2019 - nine to be exact, and she is heading or her 10th very soon. Feeby has been through one ultrasound, and is due for another shortly - nothing showed up except some anomalies related to her kidneys, spleen, and one enlarged adrenal gland. There was nothing conclusive, hence the follow up ultrasound. She got through a 4 hour appointment (due to other tests being run, not to mention a full scale exam by new vets), with flying colors. She came home and ate like a champ!

As far as the food being withheld for the ultrasound, Feeby had some baby food meat very late the night before, and a bite or two of food that very morning in order to give her the H-T meds. (I think it is fair to say, you can sneak a bite or two to her without issue.) The thing that I think worked in Feeby's favor is because I had to get up earlier that morning, and the very fact that I did, threw her off. She wasn't really ready or keen to eat knowing 'something was going on'. Maybe that would work in your favor too? Get the appointment scheduled as early as you can, and maybe it will throw Sassy off a bit to have less interest in eating - I know it did Feeby.

I am doing comparisons between our cats to some degree, so my opinion is swayed by that and the fact I am not a vet. But, I'd say overall Sassy at 19 is doing better than Feeby at 17+. I think you are worrying way too much at this point!
 
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miguel99nyc

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Right off the bat, I wouldn't freak out too much. Feeby's amylase and PSL have off and on been much higher than Sassy's. Without the fPLI test (specifically looking for pancreatitis) the numbers have not been taken too seriously by the vets Feeby has seen. And, none of them yet have suggested doing this test. Besides, the best treatment for pancreatitis is to keep them eating and hydrated, especially if it is deemed to be a chronic condition.

Feeby has been at the top of the range for calcium (or higher) a couple of times, and I have had no one tell me to be worried about it. She is also consistently at the top of the range for sodium - also not something anyone told me to be concerned about. Magnesium nor chloride have been too drastic for Feeby, but not sure how to translate those either with or without combining them with the other elements' results.

The key I have found, which will be much to your dismay, is having routine blood work done (like every 6 months) in order to see patterns that can suggest something. Feeby has had routine blood work since early 2019 - nine to be exact, and she is heading or her 10th very soon. Feeby has been through one ultrasound, and is due for another shortly - nothing showed up except some anomalies related to her kidneys, spleen, and one enlarged adrenal gland. There was nothing conclusive, hence the follow up ultrasound. She got through a 4 hour appointment (due to other tests being run, not to mention a full scale exam by new vets), with flying colors. She came home and ate like a champ!

As far as the food being withheld for the ultrasound, Feeby had some baby food meat very late the night before, and a bite or two of food that very morning in order to give her the H-T meds. (I think it is fair to say, you can sneak a bite or two to her without issue.) The thing that I think worked in Feeby's favor is because I had to get up earlier that morning, and the very fact that I did, threw her off. She wasn't really ready or keen to eat knowing 'something was going on'. Maybe that would work in your favor too? Get the appointment scheduled as early as you can, and maybe it will throw Sassy off a bit to have less interest in eating - I know it did Feeby.

I am doing comparisons between our cats to some degree, so my opinion is swayed by that and the fact I am not a vet. But, I'd say overall Sassy at 19 is doing better than Feeby at 17+. I think you are worrying way too much at this point!
Thank you so much for this!

Sorry to hear your Feeby had worser numbers in some of the testings :( Its scary once you see the numbers in bold signify if its either too high or too low.

I just emailed off my vet to see what he can suggest since our phone call today for these newer results basically opened a new can of worms.

Yes I may be worrying about these newer results its because I quickly searched up on sites what they meant...and oddly just like your vet and Feeby, my vet hasn't really suggested anything as of yet (awaiting on email resposne though) to treat those numbers and if they relate to her weight loss/cancer potential or anything else it could mean. Online it basically all suggests it should all get treated (calcium, chloride, sodium) being a different diet (can't imagine that with Sassy...) or medications and fluids. So I need to know from vet why isn't it real concern. He mentioned I think the electryolytes being higher (sodium?) from dry food? But she already doesnt eat as much dry food. he suggested maybe try adding water to the dry food.

As for the bloodwork routine, yeah I think I should keep it at 6 months interval if not at least once yearly. Something to think about though, after all these years, you wouldn't think her kidney values would have gone up somewhat significantly since 2016 being on just commercial food? To see it basically stabilized in the past 2 years is puzzling a bit. Sure may be somewhat good news but, still. With the foods she eat, i thought the weight loss now and weakness was surely from the CKD progressing. Online it does show somehow there's some linkage with her abnormal values and kidney disease. Its only Calcium being somewhat related to possible cancer.

And then I think to myself, if it was cancer and her High Calcium was a signal, she had that since 2019, wouldn't she have gotten worse or more ill by now without no treatment for cancer? Plus if it was lymphoma as vet might of suggested, regardless of what cancer it would be, she should show more signs of illness and not just appetite frequency and wieght loss? Like overall she would seem ill surely, like my colon cancer cat last year. Sassy still acts like her normal self. Walks around greets us (me and family), scratches her post joyfully when I get home from work each day. Asks me for food and all waits by my desk ready to eat when i feed her. The weight loss is what jumps at me the most yeah but Im sure she would look further sick. Plus wouldn't like, the red blood cells or white blood cells be any indication as well or a hint? I ask all this because it seems like vet is somewhat confident something will show up in Ultrasound and somewhat be confident about lymphoma because brought it up few times? Or couldn't Xrays find something rather than Ultrasound?

As for fasting, gosh, I WISH i could trick her. I do that ALL the times when I need to go into work early. Her eating schedule is so...strict/set in stone, its nearly impossible to trick her. For instance, she eats her last meal canned food at around 10-11pm (whenver she wakes up from her naps) She naps basically every 3 hours and wakes up to drink water and eat then usually back to sleep on my bed. So last meal is around 11pm. Then she sleeps on my bed, i go sleep right after too. Then she asks for dry food around 1-2am. She finishes then goes back to my bed and lay with me. Then shes off my bed again around 4:30am-5:30am, thats when Ill open a new 3oz can. She'll eat maybe only a third of it with few pebbles of dry food then back to sleep. Then lastly she'll wake up around 7:30am-9am and Id give her remaining 3oz can (never finishes it though) and few pieces of dry food. She eats until she satisfied, then walks around or sits elsewhere while i eat breakfast. Then she calls me to lay back to my bed. She sleeps, then is knocked out usually for about 3-4 hours but im at work during that time so she goes without eating from around 9am until around 3pm or so. And usually shes quite hungry by the time i get home because obvious its a longer gap without eating. So. But that's the thing, shes still willing to eat, doesn't really scream at me cancer/tumor...but hard to know sadly. Getting her to fast for ultrasound would be an incredible challenge. Id have to put ear plugs and have to ignore her cries all night long if I decided to go through ultrasound. it just seems so dreadful.

Another reason why i have hesitancy with ultrasound is her age. I know its safe and no anestheisa is invovled but, last year my cat that died with the tumor , went through SO much physically, probably ended up why he had a heart attack post surgery in attempt to remove the mass... He went initially through one ultrasound at our vet. Found A mass in bowel, no real conclusion. Suggestion was to do biopsy. But I ended up going to pet hospital to see if they would do another detailed ultra sound, they did but just went as far as how big the mass was and such, but it was a waste. Then I reverted back to my vet to take biopsy sample of the mass. Turned out to be colon cancer. Then was refered BACK to specialist/oncologist. Ultimatly decided to go with surgeyr to attempt remove mass as that was only real option but, in the end it failed and costed his life. There was just much back and forth and all started with unclear initial ultrasound at our vet.
 

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I did not want to disrupt Feeby's patterns/habits, but I did, and will have to do it again. She forgave me before long before I forgave myself - and I believe she will again with the next ultrasound. It is a very real, long, and ugly struggle, I admit.

But, there comes a point in time where you decide you want to take action or you don't. If you choose the former, you have to be prepared to do so, and manage your own emotions so that you don't give reason to Sassy to be more upset herself. If you choose the latter, then you have to find peace with that choice, and let go of the fretting.

You do it or you don't, but you have to find peace either way - and the only way to find peace is that you believe you are doing what is best for Sassy in the long run.
 
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miguel99nyc

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Hello,

So this was the response I got from my vet over the weekend. Again didn't seem concerned about the Sodium, Cholride or Magnesium but just advised the next step is Ultrasound...

"The weakness can also be due to arthritis especially of the back in a 19 year old that would be the most common cause. To diagnose that it would be an X-ray. It’s possible that it’s from the low magnesium but less likely. Reasons for low magnesium can be from not absorbing as much from inflammation in her bowel. Something to give as a supplement would be cosequin. As an owner it depends on how investigative you want us to be to find out if there’s an underlying reason for the high calcium low magnesium high salt. Next step being the ultrasound. I’m not saying she has cancer, I was just giving differentials for her problems. As for what to do in the meantime add more water to her diet to bring down the salt and maybe change her diet to a less ash food if her current one is high in ash like friskies "

So it seems the vet is still trying to imply in some absorption issue going on in her bowel due to possible inflammation. Somehow an Ultrasound seem like will shed light on the Low Magnesium, high calcium, high Salt... Yet from what I've done some reasearch over online, seemed like primarily High Salt, Chloride seems to be attributed to not really any diseases but instead actually being dehydrated? Vet suggested to add more water to her diet...she already drinks I think plenty of water for the day. Oddly/Coincidently enough Sassy has been drink bit more water than usual since her visit last week.

As for diet, yes it seems maybe the commercial foods I guess contribute to high Sodium? But that's really only foods she eats - Friskies/Fancy Feast. So rather instead going for lower phosphorus foods now got to be less Sodium food or as vet said - less ash? How do I go about doing that? I'm sure less "ash" food would be like foods from Petco, all those healthy brands that Im like 100% sure Sassy won't go near...

It's odd how the vet said he's giving differentials for her problems...when he really only suggested "Cancer" as possible due to her high calcium if it wasn't idiopathic. And didn't suggest Sassy was dehydrated based on these values.

Another thing I'd point out and I'm attaching, I noticed after reviewing Sassy's bloodwork since 2017, all those values - Calcium, Magnesium, Sodium, Cholride have been steadily increasing from higher end of normal to now above normal. So...it couldn't have been Cancer if she had that technically a while ago developing and go without treatment this long until now? it's somethign that popped out to me that those values had been increasing (and magenisum decreasing) since 4 years ago ever so slowly. So it seems like it was bound to get out of normal values but I don't think that could have been from Cancer or some other malicious disease forming from that long ago? Or, with the values having been going up since about 4-5 years ago, if that is any kind of clue as well for something or just maybe age?

I want and will go the route for now of not doing Ultrasound until I see Sassy get worse, if she even gets worse or continue to lose weight. or if her behavior completely changes.
 

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Give her an arthritic supplement, it can't hurt. Elsewise, go with your gut and continue to see how Sassy does. Continue to monitor her weight. Is she still losing weight?

From layperson's point of view, there is nothing alarming in her bloodwork numbers. But, because you are worried, I think the vet has offered the only things they know to do at this point - x-rays and ultrasound, to see if something shows up from that perspective.

This all could be related to old age, for which there is no cure; only treatment to help offset/delay it a bit.
 
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